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> Everybody Draw Mohammed Day, I'm shocked, shocked to find drama on Wikipedia
Herschelkrustofsky
post Thu 6th May 2010, 1:46pm
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QUOTE(Moulton @ Thu 6th May 2010, 5:24am) *

I would go farther than Dan, to point out that religions are not the only variety of belief systems that people adopt on faith, without regard for the diligent epistemology that would confirm or refute the scientific accuracy of the beliefs in question.
{{fact}}

You obviously have not acquainted yourself with scholars such as Nicholas of Kues.
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Kwork
post Thu 6th May 2010, 1:48pm
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QUOTE(HRIP7 @ Wed 5th May 2010, 4:26pm) *

Ah, the obsequious thanks. I guess that's how you make friends and allies in Wikiland.

Let's see if this will develop into full-fledged persecution of Gatoclass. popcorn.gif


I think that I am fairly familiar with Wikipedia and its problems, but the point of this discussion is lost on me. Could someone explain what it is that makes Cirt any worse than any other administrator (Gatoclass for example), or why Pieter Kuiper is any better than any other user who is involved on one side in Wikipedia's I/P disputes?
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thekohser
post Thu 6th May 2010, 2:22pm
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QUOTE(dtobias @ Thu 6th May 2010, 7:26am) *

All religion is superstitious nonsense.

I understand your perspective, Dan. But I, for one, subscribe to the values of learning, understanding, and applying the wisdom of religious teachings to our daily lives.

When it comes to Wikipediots, I really suck at it. But... in other areas, it is a help to me.
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Moulton
post Thu 6th May 2010, 2:46pm
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QUOTE(Herschelkrustofsky @ Thu 6th May 2010, 9:46am) *
You obviously have not acquainted yourself with scholars such as Nicholas of Kues.

Indeed I am not. But could you say more about his role in promoting diligent epistemology of arbitrary beliefs systems (including scientific beliefs, religious beliefs, secular political beliefs, and popular cultural beliefs)?
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GlassBeadGame
post Thu 6th May 2010, 3:06pm
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OK here it comes...

Obviously the point of this "protest" (imagine rich white people protesting the beliefs of a hard pressed and often maligned minority in the heart of the rich white peoples very own society) is to mock Muslim sensitivities about depicting Mohammad. The use of images that could not possibly be Mohammad is suppose to disarm Muslim concerns. Maybe it does. But what remains is the insensitivity that motivated the campaign. Muslims don't deserve yet another slap in the face.

Once again Wikipedia, the Wikipedians on WR and even some WRers who cannot fairly be called Wikipedians join in the mockery. Once again the most import value is our own self expression. Once again someone else has to bare the burden of our entitlement.

Speak Truth to Power.
Speak Trash to the Powerless.
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Ottava
post Thu 6th May 2010, 3:11pm
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QUOTE(GlassBeadGame @ Thu 6th May 2010, 3:06pm) *

OK here it comes...

Obviously the point of this "protest" (imagine rich white people protesting the beliefs of a hard pressed and often maligned minority in the heart of the rich white peoples very own society) is to mock Muslim sensitivities about depicting Mohammad. The use of images that could not possibly be Mohammad is suppose to disarm Muslim concerns. Maybe it does. But what remains is the insensitivity that motivated the campaign. Muslims don't deserve yet another slap in the face.

Once again Wikipedia, the Wikipedians on WR and even some WRers who cannot fairly be called Wikipedians join in the mockery. Once again the most import value is our own self expression. Once again someone else has to bare the burden of our entitlement.

Speak Truth to Power.
Speak Trash to the Powerless.


I don't really think a group of over 1 billion people are a "minority" or that people who have the ability to wage war all over the Middle East and fly three planes into US buildings are powerless.

But thanks for trolling.
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GlassBeadGame
post Thu 6th May 2010, 3:13pm
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QUOTE(Ottava @ Thu 6th May 2010, 10:11am) *

QUOTE(GlassBeadGame @ Thu 6th May 2010, 3:06pm) *

OK here it comes...

Obviously the point of this "protest" (imagine rich white people protesting the beliefs of a hard pressed and often maligned minority in the heart of the rich white peoples very own society) is to mock Muslim sensitivities about depicting Mohammad. The use of images that could not possibly be Mohammad is suppose to disarm Muslim concerns. Maybe it does. But what remains is the insensitivity that motivated the campaign. Muslims don't deserve yet another slap in the face.

Once again Wikipedia, the Wikipedians on WR and even some WRers who cannot fairly be called Wikipedians join in the mockery. Once again the most import value is our own self expression. Once again someone else has to bare the burden of our entitlement.

Speak Truth to Power.
Speak Trash to the Powerless.


I don't really think a group of over 1 billion people are a "minority" or that people who have the ability to wage war all over the Middle East and fly three planes into US buildings are powerless.

But thanks for trolling.



Well if your so brave go into the slums of Cairo with your "protest."
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anthony
post Thu 6th May 2010, 3:14pm
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QUOTE(GlassBeadGame @ Thu 6th May 2010, 3:06pm) *

Obviously the point of this "protest"...is to mock Muslim sensitivities about depicting Mohammad.


Well, yeah, obviously.
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Moulton
post Thu 6th May 2010, 3:16pm
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QUOTE(anthony @ Thu 6th May 2010, 11:14am) *
QUOTE(GlassBeadGame @ Thu 6th May 2010, 3:06pm) *
Obviously the point of this "protest"...is to mock Muslim sensitivities about depicting Mohammad.
Well, yeah, obviously.

But is it trolling?
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Ottava
post Thu 6th May 2010, 3:19pm
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QUOTE(GlassBeadGame @ Thu 6th May 2010, 3:13pm) *

QUOTE(Ottava @ Thu 6th May 2010, 10:11am) *

I don't really think a group of over 1 billion people are a "minority" or that people who have the ability to wage war all over the Middle East and fly three planes into US buildings are powerless.

But thanks for trolling.



Well if your so brave go into the slums of Cairo with your "protest."


And now you just proved that they do have power across the world and would seek violence against me, verifying that your previous comments were trolling.
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GlassBeadGame
post Thu 6th May 2010, 3:21pm
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QUOTE(Ottava @ Thu 6th May 2010, 10:19am) *

QUOTE(GlassBeadGame @ Thu 6th May 2010, 3:13pm) *

QUOTE(Ottava @ Thu 6th May 2010, 10:11am) *

I don't really think a group of over 1 billion people are a "minority" or that people who have the ability to wage war all over the Middle East and fly three planes into US buildings are powerless.

But thanks for trolling.



Well if your so brave go into the slums of Cairo with your "protest."


And now you just proved that they do have power across the world and would seek violence against me, verifying that your previous comments were trolling.


What an asshole you are to invoke 9/11.
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thekohser
post Thu 6th May 2010, 3:22pm
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QUOTE(Ottava @ Thu 6th May 2010, 11:11am) *

I don't really think a group of over 1 billion people are a "minority" or that people who have the ability to wage war all over the Middle East and fly three planes into US buildings are powerless.

I've always thought that projecting the actions of an Al Qaeda extremist group onto the lot of a billion believers would be similar to saying that a Ku Klux Klan rally represents the beliefs of all Christians.

Way to go, Ottava.
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Kwork
post Thu 6th May 2010, 3:24pm
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QUOTE(Moulton @ Thu 6th May 2010, 2:46pm) *

QUOTE(Herschelkrustofsky @ Thu 6th May 2010, 9:46am) *
You obviously have not acquainted yourself with scholars such as Nicholas of Kues.

Indeed I am not. But could you say more about his role in promoting diligent epistemology of arbitrary beliefs systems (including scientific beliefs, religious beliefs, secular political beliefs, and popular cultural beliefs)?


Islam may be the world's largest religion, and is certainly one of the largest. Apparently1.3-1.5 billion according to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_world
Some of Islamic countries are very wealthy also. Why do you think that is "Speaking Trash to the Powerless"?
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GlassBeadGame
post Thu 6th May 2010, 3:30pm
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QUOTE(Kwork @ Thu 6th May 2010, 10:24am) *

QUOTE(Moulton @ Thu 6th May 2010, 2:46pm) *

QUOTE(Herschelkrustofsky @ Thu 6th May 2010, 9:46am) *
You obviously have not acquainted yourself with scholars such as Nicholas of Kues.

Indeed I am not. But could you say more about his role in promoting diligent epistemology of arbitrary beliefs systems (including scientific beliefs, religious beliefs, secular political beliefs, and popular cultural beliefs)?


Islam may be the world's largest religion, and is certainly one of the largest. Apparently1.3-1.5 billion according to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_world
Some of Islamic countries are very wealthy also. Why do you think that is "Speaking Trash to the Powerless"?


I live in America. More than 99% of the users of this site and en.WP are from the the English speaking world and Europe. Muslims are a small and hard pressed minority in our society. They are easy to pick on and vilify. Almost no one will speak up if you do. I'm speaking up for my neighbors and countrymen who are Muslims.
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A Horse With No Name
post Thu 6th May 2010, 3:32pm
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QUOTE(thekohser @ Thu 6th May 2010, 11:22am) *

I've always thought that projecting the actions of an Al Qaeda extremist group onto the lot of a billion believers would be similar to saying that a Ku Klux Klan rally represents the beliefs of all Christians.


And by extension, that is like saying that Arbcom is representative of the Wikipedia community -- puerile, hypocritical, self-important, ill-equipped to handle editorial duties, unfit for managerial...

Oh, wait...that wasn't a good example. Hmmm.... unsure.gif
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Ottava
post Thu 6th May 2010, 3:39pm
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QUOTE(GlassBeadGame @ Thu 6th May 2010, 3:30pm) *

I live in America.


And if you weren't so ignorant you would realize that the world is more than America. Stop trolling already. People are tired of it.
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GlassBeadGame
post Thu 6th May 2010, 3:41pm
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QUOTE(Ottava @ Thu 6th May 2010, 10:39am) *

QUOTE(GlassBeadGame @ Thu 6th May 2010, 3:30pm) *

I live in America.


And if you weren't so ignorant you would realize that the world is more than America. Stop trolling already. People are tired of it.

Weak. I know you have a whole world of Muslims to hate.
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A Horse With No Name
post Thu 6th May 2010, 3:48pm
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QUOTE(GlassBeadGame @ Thu 6th May 2010, 11:30am) *

I live in America.


Me too. I like to live in America, okay by me in America...


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Kwork
post Thu 6th May 2010, 4:09pm
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QUOTE(GlassBeadGame @ Thu 6th May 2010, 3:30pm) *

QUOTE(Kwork @ Thu 6th May 2010, 10:24am) *

QUOTE(Moulton @ Thu 6th May 2010, 2:46pm) *

QUOTE(Herschelkrustofsky @ Thu 6th May 2010, 9:46am) *
You obviously have not acquainted yourself with scholars such as Nicholas of Kues.

Indeed I am not. But could you say more about his role in promoting diligent epistemology of arbitrary beliefs systems (including scientific beliefs, religious beliefs, secular political beliefs, and popular cultural beliefs)?


Islam may be the world's largest religion, and is certainly one of the largest. Apparently1.3-1.5 billion according to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_world
Some of Islamic countries are very wealthy also. Why do you think that is "Speaking Trash to the Powerless"?


I live in America. More than 99% of the users of this site and en.WP are from the the English speaking world and Europe. Muslims are a small and hard pressed minority in our society. They are easy to pick on and vilify. Almost no one will speak up if you do. I'm speaking up for my neighbors and countrymen who are Muslims.


The Muslim population in the USA is rather well educated, many very well educated. The ones that have citizenship vote, and most are politically active. It is a small population, but probably already bigger than the USA Jewish population.

Muslims need to develop an ability to deal with stuff they may not like. Of course hate speech is forbiden, but otherwise mild humor and criticism is protected freedom of speech. I would like to see Muslims develop enough humor about themselves so they could make an ad like this one made by Israeli Jews about their own religion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQQkopQSOlA
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Moulton
post Thu 6th May 2010, 4:15pm
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QUOTE(Ottava @ Thu 6th May 2010, 11:39am) *
Stop trolling already. People are tired of it.

We really do need to unpack the expansion of the scope of "trolling" to encompass anything and everything which one is taking exception to.
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