Cirt revisited Options

[carbuncle]

You may recall earlier threads discussing Cirt's aggressive anti-Scientology efforts on WP, and the suggestion that Cirt may be a paid editor. A recent thread on ANI involving Cirt's creation of Daryl Wine Bar and Restaurant, which looks like the type of thing an experienced paid editor would write, made me look at the again at the paid editing suggestions.

I suggested an article was a puff piece. Rather than engage in discussion, the article creator has been deleting standard WP procedures for addressing these concerns. Cirt has been both disruptive and using harrassing techniques to defend the article used to advertise the "Daryl restaurant and wine bar." He clearly has a personal interest in the restaurant is is using his position as an administrator abusively. Njsustain (talk) 17:23, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Cirt recently created a ridiculous puff piece for minor actress Jamie Sorrentini. Turns out that Sorrentini is a former Scientologist whose story is told here. One of the partners in Daryl Winebar? Its namesake Daryl Sorrentini, who happens to be the mother of Jamie Sorrentini. Is it possible that Cirt's "paid editing" has really just been an extreme extension of their anti-Scientology editing?

[Herschelkrustofsky]

Interesting. I hope that one or more of our Reviewers who are yet unbanned at WP (and may even be admins or arbs) pick this up and run with it.

[EricBarbour]

Cirt recently created a ridiculous puff piece for minor actress Jamie Sorrentini. Turns out that Sorrentini is a former Scientologist whose story is told here. One of the partners in Daryl Winebar? Its namesake Daryl Sorrentini, who happens to be the mother of Jamie Sorrentini. Is it possible that Cirt's "paid editing" has really just been an extreme extension of their anti-Scientology editing?

Or Cirt is a Sorrentini, or a close friend thereof.

Nice find!

[carbuncle]

So following up my own post, I took a look at the specific articles mentioned as likely paid editing in an earlier thread. Here's my assessment:

Twisted Scriptures - The author, Mary Alice Chrnalogar, is a cult deprogrammer and "was among a group of prominent deprogrammers who became embroiled in nasty legal battles with Church of Scientology members".

The Official Razzie Movie Guide - The publication has bestowed many Razzie awards on the movie adaptation of Scientology founder (and science fiction author) L Ron Hubbard's "Battlefield Earth". There's a whole section on it in the WP article.

Leaving Springfield - no clue.

[CharlotteWebb]

Wikipedia has recently been blessed with an article about Jamie Sorrentini who ecently played "Slutty Woman" in an episode of It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia. If Cirt isn't a PR Wikipedian for hire then I'll eat my keyboard.

1. Circulate rumors that this actress is a scientologist.
2. Observe Cirt's reaction.
3. Profit.

It appears that step one is unnecessary. This blog post may have been the impetus for Cirt's interest.

Damn, are there no jokes left to tell?

Cutting to the chase, how unusual is it for a confirmed former scientologist not to be identified as precisely such on WP? Are there other known omissions or is Ms. Sorrentini unique in this regard?

Leaving Springfield - no clue.

Nancy Cartwright is probably the missing link.

[Cock-up-over-conspiracy]

You may recall earlier threads discussing Cirt's aggressive anti-Scientology efforts on WP, and the suggestion that Cirt may be a paid editor ...

Nah, it is just his way of owning a topic or topic area saying to them all ... "step back into the Church and I will document it on Wikipedia!". Who is going to pay for anti-cult work?

You may as well say that it looks like a puff piece an experienced Wikipedian would write, which he is.

Now, as for the other cult you mention, The Church of Slutty "Actresses", there are plenty of its adherents rampaging all over the Wikipedia unchecked.

That is a very touchingly written blog piece which captures the madness of it all very well.

[carbuncle]

Cutting to the chase, how unusual is it for a confirmed former scientologist not to be identified as precisely such on WP? Are there other known omissions or is Ms. Sorrentini unique in this regard?

My assumption is that like similar religious, ethnic, or political campaigns on WP, anti-Scientology editing is a coordinated activity that is discussed offsite or in an email list. I admit that I haven't looked into this a great deal outside of the obvious involvement of Cirt. While I would characterize Cirt's depth of involvement as excessive (or perhaps obsessive) and abusive, I am no fan of Scientology and have no desire to enable their pro-Scientology campaign either.

Leaving Springfield - no clue.

Nancy Cartwright is probably the missing link.

Seems tenuous, but perhaps that's it.

[A Horse With No Name]

You may recall earlier threads discussing Cirt's aggressive anti-Scientology efforts on WP, and the suggestion that Cirt may be a paid editor. A recent thread on ANI involving Cirt's creation of Daryl Wine Bar and Restaurant, which looks like the type of thing an experienced paid editor would write, made me look at the again at the paid editing suggestions.

As a professional publicist, I can put money down that Cirt (assuming that he wrote it) is clearly a PR/marketing professional. This is one of the finest marketing pieces I've seen in ages -- this is not the work of a hobbyist with an axe to grind.

This post has been edited by A Horse With No Name:

[chrisoff]

As a professional publicist, I can put money down that Cirt (assuming that he wrote it) is clearly a PR/marketing professional.

I agree. Reminiscent of all his cheese cookbook articles, for example. He writes as if he is a promoter. Most of what he writes promotes something.

[Peter Damian]

It's completely incredible. On a project like Wikipedia, preventing possible conflict of interest should be the most important priority, overriding everything else. But behold the discussion at ANI

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=..._User_Njsustain

It's called 'disruption by user Njsustain'. That's right. The person being accused of disruption is the person who brought the issue to light. And behold the line of idiotic or corrupt Wikipedians lining up with cudgels to bash the complainer.

I'm physically sick.

And what about this

Dear Sir, I'm just curious as to whether you think it is alright for admins to call users "d*cks" (but with an i instead of a *)? EVula called me this repeatedly on Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents. I don't mind admitting when I'm wrong, but I didn't realize it was okay to be sweared at by administrators in the process. Just wondering whether this was the future of being part of the WP community? Thanks for your contributions towards society. Sincerely, Njsustain (talk) 18:26, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

See WP:DICK. It isn't good to call someone a dick, but it is even better not to be one.--Scott Mac 18:30, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
Thank you for clearing up the acceptable etiquette here on WP, sad as it apparently is. Njsustain (talk) 18:33, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jim...es#Just_curious

This post has been edited by Peter Damian:

[A Horse With No Name]

It's called 'disruption by user Njsustain'. That's right. The person being accused of disruption is the person who brought the issue to light. And behold the line of idiotic or corrupt Wikipedians lining up with cudgels to bash the complainer.

I'm physically sick.

And what about this

Dear Sir, I'm just curious as to whether you think it is alright for admins to call users "d*cks" (but with an i instead of a *)? EVula called me this repeatedly on Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents. I don't mind admitting when I'm wrong, but I didn't realize it was okay to be sweared at by administrators in the process. Just wondering whether this was the future of being part of the WP community? Thanks for your contributions towards society. Sincerely, Njsustain (talk) 18:26, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

See WP:DICK. It isn't good to call someone a dick, but it is even better not to be one.--Scott Mac 18:30, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
Thank you for clearing up the acceptable etiquette here on WP, sad as it apparently is. Njsustain (talk) 18:33, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jim...es#Just_curious

The name calling originates here:

I honestly think Njsustain is being a bit of a dick here. Assuming Cirt has a conflict in interest with the subject of the article just because he wrote it doesn't really make sense; plenty of editors write articles about things that they don't have a stake in... EVula // talk // ☯ // 17:56, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

If we are to get into EVula's teeny-weeny brain, we would see no problem in the scenario where someone wakes up one morning and, out of the blue, writes an extensively-researched article about an obscure three-year-old restaurant located inside an obscure hotel in New Brunswick, N.J.

As for the New York Times' restaurant reviews in the article - it is bullsh*t. The coverage is not from the Wednesday food section of the Times -- where the restaurant critics are brutally honest and often negative -- but from the Sunday N.J. regional section, where all of the restaurant reviews are positive. Anyone who lives in the New York metropolitan section and reads the Times would recognize that immediately.

[Milton Roe]

You may recall earlier threads discussing Cirt's aggressive anti-Scientology efforts on WP, and the suggestion that Cirt may be a paid editor. A recent thread on ANI involving Cirt's creation of Daryl Wine Bar and Restaurant, which looks like the type of thing an experienced paid editor would write, made me look at the again at the paid editing suggestions.

As a professional publicist, I can put money down that Cirt (assuming that he wrote it) is clearly a PR/marketing professional. This is one of the finest marketing pieces I've seen in ages -- this is not the work of a hobbyist with an axe to grind.

Therefore, let us find some criticism of Daryl Wine Bar and Restaurant, and twist Cirt's COI knobs a bit. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

[Peter Damian]

The discussion here is also astonishing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...rant_notability

How do you point out the bleeding obvious to people who are incapable of appreciating its bleeding obviousness?

Cyclopia I don't follow this argument at all. You are arguing that applying measurable criteria to determine the overall significance of something equates to bias. All "notability" policies are expressly involved with such significance. Something of only local interest is not of interest to the broad audience of an encyclopedia. It is obvious why we have this language in the policy.Griswaldo (talk) 18:18, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Should we avoid to cover specialized academic subjects because they could not be "of interest to the broad audience of an encyclopedia"? Of course not. For the same reason, we shouldn't bias our coverage by refusing to use local RS. It is not "obvious", given that this guideline (not policy!) is the only one I'm aware that specifically singles out local sources as unsuitable - WP:GNG does nothing of the sort, and it is our main guideline for notability. --Cyclopiatalk 19:20, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Cyclopia, clearly "significance" is not simply measured in brute quantity. Academic subjects usually do not suffer from the same "local vs. global" issue that is concerning us here. Academic communities are usually transnational or global (yes that's a step beyond national, and two steps beyond regional), even if they are small. The subject matters of academic pursuits may be of interest to any lay reader who is digging further into a subject matter that is, once again, of universal interest. Do you care to give an example of an academic subject we cover that you would argue it is on par with? It might be better to discuss this with a concrete example in mind. I await it.Griswaldo (talk) 19:29, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Oh and someone has spotted the false claim award. Well spotted http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=375571044

James Beard Foundation Award nomination
The article states that the restaurant was nominated for a James Beard Foundation Award as "best new restaurant". The sources used are an unidentified PDF file and a magazine website. The former appears to be some kind of voting form, and the text for the latter was almost certainly submitted by the restaurant themselves (that's just how it works, folks). Using the search form on the James Beard Foundation site, I was unable to find any listing for "daryl" or "david drake". Can someone please confirm my results? Thanks. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 17:43, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

[edit] Definitive results (inaccurate claim)
This was painstaking because of the lack of browsability on the website but I found a list of the winner and the FOUR other nominees for "Best New Restaurant". This link will take you there - 2008 Best New Restaurant. The promo piece linked to in the magazine was clearly incorrect, but then again it is hardly a WP:RS in the first place. It's very disappointing to see this inaccuracy coming to light on top of everything else.Griswaldo (talk) 18:36, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Daryl_Wine_Bar_and_Restaurant"

Disappointing but hardly unexpected.

[edit] And Jimbo even brings in Mzoli's meats:

It's not up to me to decide policy at that level of scale, and so I offer only a general opinion. I think that having such articles is not within the scope of Wikipedia for a number of reasons, more or less along the lines that Griswaldo has outlined. It should be noted, since it accidentally and foolishly made headlines a few years ago, that I started the entry Mzoli's, but I did so on the premise that the restaurant is culturally interesting, as it has been popular with both whites and blacks in a South African township, and because of various complexities surrounding its impact on the community.
.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 14:41, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

This post has been edited by Peter Damian:

[Milton Roe]

[edit] And Jimbo even brings in Mzoli's meats:

It's not up to me to decide policy at that level of scale, and so I offer only a general opinion. I think that having such articles is not within the scope of Wikipedia for a number of reasons, more or less along the lines that Griswaldo has outlined. It should be noted, since it accidentally and foolishly made headlines a few years ago, that I started the entry Mzoli's, but I did so on the premise that the restaurant is culturally interesting, as it has been popular with both whites and blacks in a South African township, and because of various complexities surrounding its impact on the community.
.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 14:41, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

What a pile of horseshit.. There's absolutely nothing on the stub Jimbo started to indicate he had any interest in any of this at all, at the time. All the stuff suggesting that Mzoli's is the pivotal center of post-appartheid reconstructionism (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/blink.gif) was added by Jimbo-toadies later, and heartily endorsed by Jimbo when, after a few days, the thing was inevitably up for deletion under non-notable and NOT:TRAVELGUIDE. But he didn't start that way.

The stub, after Jimbo started and got through with it (total of two edits) was this:

Mzoli's Meats is a butcher shop and restuarant located in Guguletu township near Cape Town, South Africa.

That's all Jimbo wrote, PLUS put in two links to two blogs, which certainly were not WP:RS reliable sources.

[cookiehead]

I had a little run in with "Cirt" on some biography of some old Werner (Engerhart?) or other. What a nutjob. And Cirt isn't playing with a full deck either.

Completely irrational watchdogging. Not unlike the Scientology cult watchdogs that this Cirt character is pulling a Joan of Arc act against.

Cirt is a SPA account. I thought that was not allowed on the Wikipedia?

[Jagärdu]

Ha. Cirt is busy writing for the enemy. Clearly he has no stake in this! Phew, and to think we all thought he had something to gain from a positive review. To think we all thought ... how silly.

[Jon Awbrey]

Ha. Cirt is busy writing for the enemy. Clearly he has no stake in this! Phew, and to think we all thought he had something to gain from a positive review. To think we all thought … how silly.

Good Grief. That "article" is the very definition of "non-encyclopedic".

Jon (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/sick.gif)

[cookiehead]

Ha. Cirt is busy writing for the enemy. Clearly he has no stake in this! Phew, and to think we all thought he had something to gain from a positive review. To think we all thought … how silly.

Good Grief. That "article" is the very definition of "non-encyclopedic".

Jon (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/sick.gif)

Cirt's doing a public service by saving us from Thetan Soup? Shouldn't this thorough editor who never missed an opportunity to inject Scientology trivia about current, former, and bicurious 'Tologists into articles? The owner's recent dabblings in Thetan Soup recipes at the local Chef El Ron cooking school must be included!

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=375669385

http://www.truthaboutscientology.com/stats...sorrentini.html

This post has been edited by cookiehead:

[EricBarbour]

The Daryl Wine Bar article is an ugly, ugly joke--as is Cirt's heavyhanded involvement.

Let's compare its current length (19,714 bytes) to some far, far more famous restaurants.

The 21 Club. World-famous, mentioned in endless novels, movies, TV shows, etc.
Length of WP article: 12,046 bytes.

The Four Seasons Restaurant. Also world-famous.
Length of WP article: 5,876 bytes.

Gallagher's Steak House.
Length of WP article: 3,836 bytes.

Chasen's.
Length of WP article: 3,790 bytes.

Barney's Beanery.
Length of WP article: 3,883 bytes.

Musso & Frank Grill.
Length of WP article: a measly 2,170 bytes.

Rainbow Bar and Grill.
Length of WP article: 5,684 bytes.

Cirt is corrupt. And any admin, such as EVula or that idiot Cyclopia, who supports Cirt's lunatic crusade
is just as guilty as he is. (need to look into EVula's other dirty tricks.)

This situation, esp. the AN/I attack on Njsustain, reeks of off-wiki canvassing and other crap.

They are ruining Wikipedia, by allowing this kind of transparent bullshit to continue.
(Not that anyone in the WMF seems to care, business as usual.)

(edit): oohhhh! Looky look, Jimbo told Cirt to knock it off!!! And he said no!......laffy laffy laffy! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/yecch.gif)

This post has been edited by EricBarbour:

[milowent]

I just stumbled upon the Daryl's AfD, and the article struck me as so blatant (just like Ken Dicksons' was), I knew there would be a thread here.

I wrote what I thought was a decent little stub yesterday on Sanko Park, a mall in eastern Turkey that was highlighted in a NY Times article over the weekend (essentially how Turkey is sucking in Syrian/Arab customers with Western-style shopping).

Then I read that Daryl's crapola and got pissed.