Can Jayjg be stopped?, Middle-aged management guy, or wacky teenager? Options

[gomi]

If Jayjg is a paid staffer of a lobby group and uses his permissions to persecute critics of Israel it would make the essjay scandal pale in comparison.

Let's just be clear: if Jayjg is a paid lobbyist for anyone while operating in a position of extreme, unbridled power at Wikipedia, then that is a big deal.

[Somey]

Chabad-Lubavitch, eh? I wonder if the appearance and/or favorable treatment of User:David_Spart, a follower of Chabad Messianism, might not be a coincidence, then...?

In these diffs, "Spart" repeatedly blanks various warnings left by his perceived "nemesis," User:PinchasC (an admin):

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=110920885
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=110922240
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=110925252
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=110926191
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=110927621

One would think ol' Sparty's on the Road to Block-land, but then Jayjg shows up and says he'll "try to help out":
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=110928539

PinchasC quickly decides that discretion is the better part of valor, and blanks his own warnings!
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=110982196

And next thing y'know, Sparty joins the Keep Brandt Brigade, and he's off on a nut-job rampage.

Thanks a LOT, Jayjg... As if you hadn't done enough to deserve the extra scrutiny!

[anon1234]

Chabad-Lubavitch, eh? I wonder if the appearance and/or favorable treatment of User:David_Spart, a follower of Chabad Messianism, might not be a coincidence, then...?

In case you are curious, the other significant contributors to the general Chabad-Lubavitch topic area are: User:IZAK (most prolific contributor by far), User:Jfdwolff (who nominated Jayjg for adminship), and User:Fintor.

[guy]

The Chabad-Lubavitch branch of Judaism is now a strong supporter of Israel and takes a distinctly hard-line approach as described here: Haredim_and_Zionism#Chabad-Lubavitch.

That's a gross distortion. Chassidim in general deny the validity of the State of Israel on theological grounds (Jews should wait until the Messiah comes). Lubavitch aren't exempt from that view, though they don't emphasise it in the way that the Satmar or Belzer Chassidim do. On the other hand, they of course support the rights of individual Jews to practise their religion and to live in Biblically significant places like Jerusalem, which can be misconstrued as support for the State of Israel.

[anon1234]

The Chabad-Lubavitch branch of Judaism is now a strong supporter of Israel and takes a distinctly hard-line approach as described here: Haredim_and_Zionism#Chabad-Lubavitch.

That's a gross distortion. Chassidim in general deny the validity of the State of Israel on theological grounds (Jews should wait until the Messiah comes). Lubavitch aren't exempt from that view, though they don't emphasise it in the way that the Satmar or Belzer Chassidim do. On the other hand, they of course support the rights of individual Jews to practise their religion and to live in Biblically significant places like Jerusalem, which can be misconstrued as support for the State of Israel.

Sorry about that. It was late and I was being sloppy. I understand quite well the Chassidim position, but I was noting in particular the distinct views of the last Lubavitcher Rebbe. I'm not even sure it is relevant, as most people make up their own minds and the last Rebbe passed away some time ago, I just got carried away with the CL stuff once I got into it.

This post has been edited by anon1234: Wed 7th March 2007, 3:22pm

[JohnA]

The Chabad-Lubavitch branch of Judaism is now a strong supporter of Israel and takes a distinctly hard-line approach as described here: Haredim_and_Zionism#Chabad-Lubavitch.

That's a gross distortion. Chassidim in general deny the validity of the State of Israel on theological grounds (Jews should wait until the Messiah comes). Lubavitch aren't exempt from that view, though they don't emphasise it in the way that the Satmar or Belzer Chassidim do. On the other hand, they of course support the rights of individual Jews to practise their religion and to live in Biblically significant places like Jerusalem, which can be misconstrued as support for the State of Israel.

Its amazing the things you learn on WR

[guy]

Its amazing the things you learn on WR

And it's reliable info

[anon1234]

ICQ Account using the nickname Jayjg. Can't find much more information on it, but its old enough to have been created in the 2004 time frame.

[Removed blog posting as I think it was someone impersonating Jayjg.]

This post has been edited by anon1234: Thu 8th March 2007, 3:06am

[Somey]

[Removed blog posting as I think it was someone impersonating Jayjg.]

Or maybe Jayjg has actually been trying to impersonate the guy on ICQ the whole time!

I'll bet his entire Wikipedia career is one big scam, to try and embarrass just this one guy...

I seriously need a vacation.

[anon1234]

[Removed blog posting as I think it was someone impersonating Jayjg.]

It turns out that Jayjg has a number of other accounts at various internet discussion sites:

"Communion" Message Board

Account #1: Jayjg (July 2000 - October 2002)
Account #2: Jayjg613 (September 2002 - March 18, 2004)
Posts: Google Search: Jayjg site:p078.ezboard.com, Google Search: jayjg613 site:p078.ezboard.com
Preferred forums: "Catholic/Jewish Discussion"

These accounts are on a privately run Jewish/Catholicism interfaith message board. Here is a characteristic post: Re: From a Jewish perspective, is Heaven earned? You'll note he mentions "Maimonides" (edited by Jayjg on WP), "Moshe Chaim Luzzatto" (edited by Jayjg on WP), and "Derech Hashem" (edited by Jayjg on WP).

BeliefNet.Com Message Board

Account: jayjg613 (August 2003 - October 2004)
Preferred forum: Messianic Judaism Debate
Posts: Google Search: jayjg613 site:beliefnet.com

It's another interfaith forum. Similar topics as the above. Some of the posts are extremely Wikipedia-like, such as this post of Jayjg613 from July 2004:

And I've asked before what souce you have which supports that view. You've mentioned before that you found one, what is it? Have you asked any Rabbis whether this is permitted?

I'm done with this topic for the time being, time for someone else to take over if they are so inclined.

[Heat]

As far as I can tell every single one of his namespace edits prior to becoming an editor were on Judaism, Anti-Zionism, Jesus, Israel or related topic. Either he has no interests at all outside of Judaism and related Jewish issues or he has another account to deal with non-Jewish topics. This means he hasn't left any clues as to his identity other than perhaps his initials. No edits in regards to favourite tv shows, places he's been, books he's read (outside of Jewish topics), where he grew up, his business activity etc. Whenever he edits outside of Jewish topics its either to assist an ally who his having trouble - eg SlimVirgin with Gillian McKeith or he's editing about Jewish/Israeli refeerences in non-Jewish/Israeli articles.

He could just be an incredibly boring person - a religious fundamentalist who has no life or thoughts outside of his faith - or he uses more than one account for the purposes of segregation (which is allowed) in order to deliberately make himself harder to identify.

[anon1234]

jayjg613

Jon513

Attention to detail is all-important. The number 613 has mystical significance to orthodox Jews, but I doubt that 513 does.

I wouldn't completely discount this link. WordBomb has brought up Jon513 before and so have others. When people create new identities they often just vary their existing ones -- thus Jon instead of Jay and 513 instead of 613 (from the 613_mitzvot). It sounds very likely if it was infact a Jon behind Jayjg. We already know for a fact that Jayjg likes to follow SlimVirgin around. No conclusive proof yet, but I wouldn't completely discount it.

2) The link to Canada isn't based on anything Jayjg has said online but on a dubious IP catch by Wordbomb whose method of circumstantial evidence has also placed SlimVirgin in a different location than commonly thought. Has Wordbomb falsified his method or used some sort of control to determine his accuracy?

There are four separate lines of evidence from four separate individuals, only one of which is WordBomb, that suggest that he is based at least part of the time, or is using a series of proxies, in the Toronto, Canada area going back as far as mid-2005.

[Jonny Cache]

These are very speculative, but wot the hecque, may be worth following up ...

• Jay => Toronto Blue Jays.
• JG => J.G. Ballard, who Jayjg quotes on his user page.

Of course, they could just be thrown out there as foils.

Jonny

This post has been edited by Jonny Cache: Fri 9th March 2007, 7:08pm

[anon1234]

These are very speculative, but wot the hecque, may be worth following up ...

• Jay => Toronta Blue Jays
• JG => J.G. Ballard, that Jayjg mentions or quotes on his user page

Jonny

I don't think that the explanation JayJG gives on his user page is true. He uses the username too frequently elsewhere. I think it is similar to a Backronym, the explanation was obviously made up after the fact. JayJG shows no interest what so ever in birds, baseball or science fiction writers. Also, who uses the first two initials of a science fiction writer as the last two letters of their username? Does that make sense to you? It seems highly improbable to me.

I think he just did a search for "JG" and picked the first acceptable candidate.

[Heat]

These are very speculative, but wot the hecque, may be worth following up ...

• Jay => Toronta Blue Jays.
• JG => J.G. Ballard, who Jayjg mentions on his user page.

Of course, they could just be thrown out there as foils.

Jonny

For someone supposedly interested in JG Ballard it's interesting that Jay has never once edited that article. He's also never edited the Toronto Blue Jays article.

The reference to the bird and the author were not added to his user page until January 10, 2006 about a year and a half after joining wikipedia, a little over a year after becoming an admin and several months after being appointed to ArbComm. The references are likely an attempt to throw out some red herrings and deflect stalkers.

[Jonny Cache]

These are very speculative, but wot the hecque, may be worth following up ...

• Jay => Toronto Blue Jays.
• JG => J.G. Ballard, who Jayjg quotes on his user page.

I don't think that the explanation JayJG gives on his user page is true. He uses the username too frequently elsewhere. I think it is similar to a Backronym, the explanation was obviously made up after the fact. JayJG shows no interest what so ever in birds, baseball or science fiction writers. Also, who uses the first two initials of a science fiction writer as the last two letters of their username? Does that make sense to you? It seems highly improbable to me.

Most likely so, but it does betray a quaintance with at least one SF writer, and you may find names and themes from Ballard's work turning up elsewhere in Jayjg's associational complexes. I'm not into cross-word puzzles so much n.e.more, else I'd idyll aweigh a few daze on't.

Jonny

This post has been edited by Jonny Cache: Fri 9th March 2007, 7:08pm

[Jonny Cache]

For someone supposedly interested in JG Ballard it's interesting that Jay has never once edited that article. He's also never edited the Toronto Blue Jays article.

The reference to the bird and the author were not added to his user page until January 10, 2006 about a year and a half after joining wikipedia, a little over a year after becoming an admin and several months after being appointed to ArbComm. The references are likely an attempt to throw out some red herrings and deflect stalkers.

What you are saying is that the Ostensible Person (OP) who edits under the usernym "Jayjg" has never edited those articles under that same usernym.

Jonny

[anon1234]

I think that we can assign rough rankings of the possible various first names based on how many likely they are to be shortened to the "Jay" form.

1. Jason/Jayson > Jay (extremely common)
2. Jacob/Jakob > Jay/Jake (very common)
3. Jarad/Jarred/Jarrod > Jay (fairly common)
4. Jack > Jay (already one syllable, why change to Jay?)
5. Javier > Javy/Javi > J. > Jay (??)
6. James > Jim/Jamie/Jimmy/Jay (Jay is not the most likely short form)
7. Jonathan > Jon > J. > Jay (fairly rare for Jonathan to be shortened to Jay as opposed to Jon)
8. Joseph > Joe > J. > Jay (rare)
9. Joshua > Josh > J. > Jay (rare)
10. John > J. > Jay (rare)
11. Jermaine > Jerry/Jeremy > J. > Jay (rare?)
12. Jeffrey > Jeff > J. > Jay (rare)
13. Jesse > J. > Jay(rare)

There are probably more names but these are the ones I am personally familiar with.

[guy]

Almost anything beginning with J (Jason) or even a soft G (Gerald).

[anon1234]

Almost anything beginning with J (Jason) or even a soft G (Gerald).

• Given names starting with J.
• Given names starting with G.

I notice now that "Jay" can be a true given name, it is not necessarily an informal nickname.