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Ban Appeal, Is it a year already? |
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Ottava |
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Ãœber Pokemon
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This thread is interesting as it brings out the crux of the issues surrounding my ban as it stands now: 1. How long was my ban? One year. 2. How often could I appeal? As often as I wanted after my ban was half way. There is no limitation to frequency of appeals and the words "six months" are no where to be found. 3. What does probation mean? It does not mean being banned. Probation, by definition, means release with restrictions. However, SirFozzie is trying to use these clear statements about probation to say that I can have my ban extended, when that is not the case. From Ncmvocalist: "The ban is only "extended" if Ottava does not agree to comply with the probationary terms." Funny, because there were no terms offered. I was quite willing to agree to any and all terms. If a criminal gets probation and the judge fails to set terms of the probation, the criminal does not go to jail but is free without restriction. You'd think Newyorkbrad and the other lawyers who sit on ArbCom would notice this as they have to deal with such things such as the meaning of probation. I emailed ArbCom to discuss terms of my probation. ArbCom did not offer any. That is their fault, and a clear refusal for them to restrict me. As far as I am concerned and as those of many admin and Stewards, once my one year time is up I am no longer banned and if the Arbitrators don't to restrict me then that is their problem.
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Craftyminion |
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Neophyte
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QUOTE(Ottava @ Thu 16th December 2010, 9:00pm) This thread is interesting as it brings out the crux of the issues surrounding my ban as it stands now: 1. How long was my ban? One year. 2. How often could I appeal? As often as I wanted after my ban was half way. There is no limitation to frequency of appeals and the words "six months" are no where to be found. 3. What does probation mean? It does not mean being banned. Probation, by definition, means release with restrictions. However, SirFozzie is trying to use these clear statements about probation to say that I can have my ban extended, when that is not the case. From Ncmvocalist: "The ban is only "extended" if Ottava does not agree to comply with the probationary terms." Funny, because there were no terms offered. I was quite willing to agree to any and all terms. If a criminal gets probation and the judge fails to set terms of the probation, the criminal does not go to jail but is free without restriction. You'd think Newyorkbrad and the other lawyers who sit on ArbCom would notice this as they have to deal with such things such as the meaning of probation. I emailed ArbCom to discuss terms of my probation. ArbCom did not offer any. That is their fault, and a clear refusal for them to restrict me. As far as I am concerned and as those of many admin and Stewards, once my one year time is up I am no longer banned and if the Arbitrators don't to restrict me then that is their problem. I really hope they don't let you back in. You're just the most awful person I've ever encountered. Nothing personal, but after the whole Wikiversity thing I feel I can say without fear of contradiciton that you have all the charm of a cornered rattlesnake. Best of luck with the appeal. (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)
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lilburne |
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Chameleon
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QUOTE(Craftyminion @ Thu 16th December 2010, 12:06pm) Nothing personal, but after the whole Wikiversity thing I feel I can say without fear of contradiciton that you have all the charm of a cornered rattlesnake. Best of luck with the appeal. (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif) What is wrong with cornered rattlesnakes? I find him amusing. In any case when OV starts up the antics he's lost the argument and plot anyway. Poke with a stick from a distance, that particular rattlesnake's strike is so slow and predictable even Hawkins could dodge it.
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Craftyminion |
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Neophyte
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QUOTE What is wrong with cornered rattlesnakes?
Nothing, except they have such a chilling resemblance to Ottava. QUOTE I find him amusing. In any case when OV starts up the antics he's lost the argument and plot anyway. Poke with a stick from a distance, that particular rattlesnake's strike is so slow and predictable even Hawkins could dodge it.
I find him amusing too. What's more amusing is denying him the thing he wants like nothing else. Readmittance to WP. I suspect for Ottava it's a bit like taking a shit. He can't wait to have it but once he's got it he won't want it any more. Or such like. This post has been edited by Craftyminion:
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Kwork |
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Senior Member
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QUOTE(lilburne @ Thu 16th December 2010, 1:24pm) QUOTE(Craftyminion @ Thu 16th December 2010, 12:47pm) I find him amusing too. What's more amusing is denying him the thing he wants like nothing else. Readmittance to WP.
Well it is demeaning and it denies others the chance to experience the humour. There is a term, parrhesia , that became important in Hellenistic philosophy. It was pretty close in meaning to the 1960's phrase "speak truth to authority", and Michel Foucault gave an interesting series of lectures on the subject at UC Berkeley. http://foucault.info/documents/parrhesia/In the context of Wikipedia, that means taking on administrative favoritism, and the irrational or self-serving use of administrative authority. The reverse, those who back up the administrators by taking on their targets, is not parrhesia. That is self-serving ass-kissing. I never had any use for ass-kissers, but respect those who take on authority, even when I do not entirely agree with their point. After all taking on authority takes some guts.
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Ottava |
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Ãœber Pokemon
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QUOTE(Craftyminion @ Thu 16th December 2010, 7:06am) I really hope they don't let you back in. You're just the most awful person I've ever encountered. Nothing personal, but after the whole Wikiversity thing I feel I can say without fear of contradiciton that you have all the charm of a cornered rattlesnake. Best of luck with the appeal. (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif) From Crafty on AN: "Yeah that maybe so, but we all know you're just fixin' to let Ottava Hussein Rima back in here to advance your lieberal agenda." Does that confuse anyone else? I've never been political on Wikipedia but if I was it probably wouldn't be "liberal".
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melloden |
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QUOTE(Ottava @ Thu 16th December 2010, 10:00am) This thread is interesting as it brings out the crux of the issues surrounding my ban as it stands now: 1. How long was my ban? One year. 2. How often could I appeal? As often as I wanted after my ban was half way. There is no limitation to frequency of appeals and the words "six months" are no where to be found. 3. What does probation mean? It does not mean being banned. Probation, by definition, means release with restrictions. However, SirFozzie is trying to use these clear statements about probation to say that I can have my ban extended, when that is not the case. From Ncmvocalist: "The ban is only "extended" if Ottava does not agree to comply with the probationary terms." Funny, because there were no terms offered. I was quite willing to agree to any and all terms. If a criminal gets probation and the judge fails to set terms of the probation, the criminal does not go to jail but is free without restriction. You'd think Newyorkbrad and the other lawyers who sit on ArbCom would notice this as they have to deal with such things such as the meaning of probation. I emailed ArbCom to discuss terms of my probation. ArbCom did not offer any. That is their fault, and a clear refusal for them to restrict me. As far as I am concerned and as those of many admin and Stewards, once my one year time is up I am no longer banned and if the Arbitrators don't to restrict me then that is their problem. Did you expect anything different? When ArbCom doesn't like you, they ignore you. Then they say that they made everything quite clear from the very beginning.
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Kwork |
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Senior Member
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QUOTE(GlassBeadGame @ Thu 16th December 2010, 5:55pm) Getting banned from Wikipedia is no indicator of bad character. Caring about being banned is. Anyone who is banned and cares about it loses all appeal.
Yes. I agree completely. Its better to know when to fold em. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNnrTNFWcsgOttava, you have gotten along ok without WP for a year, so you can get along without it altogether. It not a nice place, and now that you have taken the discussion to AN/I you are subject to one of their wiki-lynchings. In Dante's "Inferno" the final line from the inscription on the Gates of Hell is: Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate. (La Divina Commedia, Canto III.1--9 ) (Abandon all hope, you who enter!) I planned to re-add that quote to the top of my talk page as a reminder, but got bounced out before I did. In my view, logging into WP is entering wiki-Hell. For Dante, who was passing through as a visitor, it is interesting and diverting to see what goes on in Hell. For those who go to there as residents -- as WP 'users' -- WP is the Place of Torment. As they say here in NYC: forgetaboutit.
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Kwork |
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Senior Member
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QUOTE(A Horse With No Name @ Thu 16th December 2010, 8:00pm) QUOTE(Kwork @ Thu 16th December 2010, 2:02pm) As they say here in NYC: forgetaboutit.
Actually, real Noo Yawkers say "Fuggedaboutit" (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif) Yes. I sincerely regret all my spelling, and grammar, mistakes on both WP and WR. I stand behind everything else completely. (Excepting only those statements that turn out to be wrong.)
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Ottava |
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Ãœber Pokemon
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QUOTE(SB_Johnny @ Thu 16th December 2010, 3:18pm) I wonder whether Ottava will think I'm trolling here. (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/unsure.gif) Well, if you aren't trolling, you could go here and request a clarification on two points: Premise: Remedy one of the original ban said it was for one year. Remedy three says that after the ban ends that there would be probation. It also says he can appeal after the one half ban point. 1. How does ArbCom claim that Ottava has only 1 appeal per six months when the word six months does not appear nor is there language suggesting he is limited in the frequency and amount of appeals he can make? 2. How can a provision for probation, which, by definition, means to not be in jail, be used to justify an extension of a ban, especially when the provision assumes that the ban would be over and that he would be editing? There was no grounds for them to make such claims and would be the sole reason why I would be banned beyond December 19. If anyone questions why this is posted publicly, you can point to the AN thread showing that there is community concerns about the secrecy surrounding the matter and the possible problems regarding what ArbCom determined. This post has been edited by Ottava:
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