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NYB on The Volokh Conspiracy, Some First Thoughts on Wikipedia |
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Somey |
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Can't actually moderate (or even post)
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Not bad, but Mr. Brad should know by now that high search engine rankings, and the impact they have on both content and on article subjects, are only part of the overall objection to Wikipedia. The negative impact on the publishing industry and academia are another, and on traditional culture in general. It's also helping to destroy the diversity of the web, foster an unaccountable anonymity subculture that's potentially dangerous to democracy, and cheapen intellectualism, among other things. Then there's the whole cultishness thing, WRT the actual users... Still, I don't suppose it's worth complaining about - at least he's trying to be fair about the whole thing. (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/ermm.gif)
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the fieryangel |
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the Internet Review Corporation is watching you...
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QUOTE(tarantino @ Tue 12th May 2009, 4:44am) http://www.volokh.com/posts/1242098183.shtmlIra requests: QUOTE I make only one request: that regular Wikipedians who are looking over my shoulder, as well as Wikipedia critics from Wikipedia Review and elsewhere, bear in mind that this is a general-interest audience. Please don't hijack the comment threads with our own internal disputes and debates. No one here wants to read who is a sockpuppet of whom or whether so-and-so's block was fair or not. We have ANI and Wikipedia Review to hash those things out later.
I can't count the number of times I've seen Greg K., Barry Kort or Jon Ambrey make a perfectly logical and well-thought-out comment on a blog only to have them be swamped with Wikipediots making ad hominem attacks and Pro-WP rhetoric attacks ad naseum. If Brad could keep the WP troops in order, none of this would happen. Since he's made this statement, this would seem to confirm this as fact. One of the joys of Web 2.0, Brad, is that (like Wikipedia) any idiot can participate even if they're completely wrong. The only solution is to 1. moderate the comments or 2. turn them off. If only WP would do this for BLP articles and ban those Wikipediots who place BLP violations on other sites as revenge, maybe the rest of the World would follow suit?
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Newyorkbrad |
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QUOTE(Somey @ Tue 12th May 2009, 1:37am) Not bad, but Mr. Brad should know by now that high search engine rankings, and the impact they have on both content and on article subjects, are only part of the overall objection to Wikipedia. The negative impact on the publishing industry and academia are another, and on traditional culture in general. It's also helping to destroy the diversity of the web, foster an unaccountable anonymity subculture that's potentially dangerous to democracy, and cheapen intellectualism, among other things. Then there's the whole cultishness thing, WRT the actual users... Still, I don't suppose it's worth complaining about - at least he's trying to be fair about the whole thing. (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/ermm.gif) Also please bear in mind that I couldn't really address every possible critique or criticism of Wikipedia in a 1500-word introduction, or even in a week's worth of posts, which is what I have to work with. As previously promised, in one of my posts I will link to some criticism sites, including this one. I really am trying to be as balanced as I can, although I obviously don't share the entirely negative view of Wikipedia that you express.
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Newyorkbrad |
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QUOTE(GlassBeadGame @ Tue 12th May 2009, 8:45am) NYB's preemptively chastising, discounting and discouraging replies from WR on another forum is disrespectful to this site. I won't be troubling you over there, Mr. Brad.
I fear I've been unclear there and/or misconstrued here. Replies on VC about the general issues I raise there are most welcome. What I was trying to head off was more along the lines of a long debate in a comment thread, which would be incomprehensible to the general readership over there, about whether User:X deserved to be desysopped, why User:Y shouldn't have been blocked, whether User:Z is government agent, etc. That remark was equally directed at Wikipedians as Reviewers, by the way.
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the fieryangel |
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the Internet Review Corporation is watching you...
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QUOTE(Newyorkbrad @ Tue 12th May 2009, 11:01am) QUOTE(Somey @ Tue 12th May 2009, 1:37am) Not bad, but Mr. Brad should know by now that high search engine rankings, and the impact they have on both content and on article subjects, are only part of the overall objection to Wikipedia. The negative impact on the publishing industry and academia are another, and on traditional culture in general. It's also helping to destroy the diversity of the web, foster an unaccountable anonymity subculture that's potentially dangerous to democracy, and cheapen intellectualism, among other things. Then there's the whole cultishness thing, WRT the actual users... Still, I don't suppose it's worth complaining about - at least he's trying to be fair about the whole thing. (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/ermm.gif) ...although I obviously don't share the entirely negative view of Wikipedia that you express. That's just it, Brad: Somey's view of all of this isn't entirely negative, but centered in the "balanced criticism" mode that both Akahele and you seem to be striving for. He's just not wearing those nice "rose-colored glasses" that the Wikipediots seem to favor...
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Moulton |
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Anthropologist from Mars
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One |
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Postmaster General
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QUOTE(Cla68 @ Thu 14th May 2009, 4:07am) QUOTE(Newyorkbrad @ Thu 14th May 2009, 3:26am) QUOTE(Moulton @ Wed 13th May 2009, 10:08am) My third post on Volokh is now up, for those interested. It's more about the BLP issue (and I will continue on that tomorrow as well). Most of the content will be old hat to Wikipedia Reviewers, but my goal is to raise the issues with and get comments from a wider audience. Judging from the number of comments, it appears that that forum has a fairly large number of readers, so your message is reaching a lot of people. It's probably the most popular and influential law blog. [1] Widely known among legal academics, students, and professionals with spare time. I guess it will have to get along without certain butthurt reviewers. This post has been edited by One:
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tarantino |
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the Dude abides
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QUOTE(Jon Awbrey @ Thu 14th May 2009, 7:54pm) Aside from a couple of cogent posts by Brandt and Kohs, the commentary on the VC Blog makes Fark and Slashdot look almost intelligent.
Jon Awbrey
This is funny. QUOTE Kooks, on the other hand are motivated to post a lot, and would readily respond to calls on Wikipedia Review and other sites to come to VC to take over a Wikipedia thread. (Sheesh, we even have Daniel Brandt here. Somehow I doubt he posted because he's normally a VC lurker.)
I think that people who spend a great deal of time writing Sailor Moon FAQs and anime fan fiction are a little kooky.
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Jon Awbrey |
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Ï„á½° δΠμοι παθήματα μαθήματα γÎγονε
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QUOTE(tarantino @ Thu 14th May 2009, 9:13pm) QUOTE(Jon Awbrey @ Thu 14th May 2009, 7:54pm) Aside from a couple of cogent posts by Brandt and Kohs, the commentary on the VC Blog makes Fark and Slashdot look almost intelligent.
Jon Awbrey
This is funny. QUOTE Kooks, on the other hand are motivated to post a lot, and would readily respond to calls on Wikipedia Review and other sites to come to VC to take over a Wikipedia thread. (Sheesh, we even have Daniel Brandt here. Somehow I doubt he posted because he's normally a VC lurker.)
I think that people who spend a great deal of time writing Sailor Moon FAQs and anime fan fiction are a little kooky. Dies Iræ?The first e-stallment I tried to read looked like the room filled up with Conserva-Mosquitoes, and it got way too hard reading while rotflaffing — all that Bee-Looney about Wikipedia being a hotbed of Liberalism — Last time I sampled it, Brandt and Kohs had posted a lot of hard-knocks analysis and data that everyone else just ignored — big surprise that. Jon (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/hrmph.gif)
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Newyorkbrad |
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QUOTE(Jon Awbrey @ Thu 14th May 2009, 10:37pm) QUOTE(tarantino @ Thu 14th May 2009, 9:13pm) QUOTE(Jon Awbrey @ Thu 14th May 2009, 7:54pm) Aside from a couple of cogent posts by Brandt and Kohs, the commentary on the VC Blog makes Fark and Slashdot look almost intelligent.
Jon Awbrey
This is funny. QUOTE Kooks, on the other hand are motivated to post a lot, and would readily respond to calls on Wikipedia Review and other sites to come to VC to take over a Wikipedia thread. (Sheesh, we even have Daniel Brandt here. Somehow I doubt he posted because he's normally a VC lurker.)
I think that people who spend a great deal of time writing Sailor Moon FAQs and anime fan fiction are a little kooky. Dies Iræ?The first e-stallment I tried to read looked like the room filled up with Conserva-Mosquitoes, and it got way too hard reading while rotflaffing — all that Bee-Looney about Wikipedia being a hotbed of Liberalism — Last time I sampled it, Brandt and Kohs had posted a lot of hard-knocks analysis and data that everyone else just ignored — big surprise that. Jon (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/hrmph.gif) As previously promised, before I finish my guest blogging stint in a few days, I'll post links to here (both the board and the blog) and to Akihele, just so none can suggest that the purpose of my blogging there is to sugar-coat anything. I can't promise how many Volokh Conspiracy readers will follow the links, though: you can lead a horse to water, but ....... Apropos of nothing ... In one of the comment threads there, Mr. Brandt criticized the fact that I still haven't posted my real name on Wikipedia yet. Obviously, at this point I've decided to go ahead and make public that IBM=NYB, so at some point I'll probably post my name on my userpage, along with a couple of sentences of real-world bio (I'm a litigation attorney in New York, I'm the Werowance of the Wolfe Pack, etc.). I wonder exactly how long it will take before someone objects that I'm using Wikipedia for self-promotion.
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