Global ban for Abd?, Gotta stop that POV-pushing Options

[Abd]

JzG at AN, the usual

Some of the usual usual, but I'd noticed before that T. Canens knew the difference between a block and a ban, and he points it out. JzG will try to get a ban declared, that's his history. Not that it matters.

JzG, however, has been the long-term POV-pusher here, that's clear. EnergyNeutral was, indeed, my sock. Demonstrating how I'd edit if not for the ban. Middle-of-the-road, actually. JzG archived and collapsed a discussion that was started by others, in which I'd merely commented, as if it were mine. EnergyNeutral was cooperating with Brian Josephson, a Nobel laureate in physics. By comparison, JzG has a friend who is a scientist. And he's 100% convinced that he's right. (I.e., that what his friend told him years ago is The Truth, which it might even have been, but you have to have some background to understand the issues.) He thinks he's talking about me.

(EnergyNeutral was created for just what I wrote on the EN user page, because of what I saw happening at EnergyCatalyzer, which is either the biggest fraud ever to hit the field of cold fusion, or it's the real thing, and .... the real experts are saying, "Damn! We can't tell, this is either a huge fraud, or Rossi Has Done It." Lying was not involved.) EN "pushed" for reporting what is in reliable sources, only, and added highly skeptical material. Brian Josephson had been active there, that's how he became involved. Off-wiki, he's known as a supporter of cold fusion research, and so have at least two other Nobel laureates in physics....

Hut 8.5 points to the Wikiversity documentation. Why, thanks, Hut! I tried to point to that on-wiki and it was Revision Deleted. Leading to some, ah, consideration of the boundaries of revision deletion.... The last edit documented there was May 13, and very little has anything to do with ban evasion, but it's all block evasion. EnergyNeutral was ban evasion, almost totally editing in cold fusion.

How was EnergyNeutral identified? Topic interest. Any new editor who isn't pseudoskeptical in the cold fusion area arouses claims of ban evasion, since the road is littered with knowledgeable banned editors. Has Wikipedia ever considered that it's banning scientists and experts? (Most experts simply stay away, to be sure.)

If Wikipedia were sane, the "ban evasion" and "block evasion" would be considered as to the effect. But WP isn't sane. The early block evasion consisted entirely of self-reverted edits, so there was no necessity for further enforcement. But we all know that they don't think that way. It was when they turned to revision deletion and larger range blocks, making it less convenient to IP sock, that I turned to socking. I wonder. With some socks, I've not been so careful, with some, I very much doubt they could find them. EnergyNeutral was very obvious as a suspect, and I didn't take any care about OS and browser details, so Coren did not have to work hard.

Rdfox 76 suggests a global ban, based on alleged "POV-pushing." That's interesting. WTF is Rdfox 76 (T-C-L-K-R-D) ? From the user page, I get the distinct feeling that this guy isn't, er, collaborative. Guns.

Not only can someone be banned on Wikipedia for coming to positive conclusions about cold fusion (which is now a substantial minority position among scientists, possibly a majority opinion among subject matter experts, like the peer reviewers in journals), but we will attempt to make sure that it isn't even studied, as at Wikiversity.

My, my. JzG edits BLP on Brian Josephson. That had been discussed on Talk, and the removal had been suggested by Stanistani, I decided that it was poorly sourced, took it out, and 2over0, normally an editor who'd as soon see me vanished, agreed and praised the removal.

From my supposed POV-pushing, I'd have wanted it mentioned that Brian Josephson is friendly with cold fusion researchers, and, of course, I know it to be a fact, because I know the field and am in close contact with the scientists, including face-to-face contact with some, and, I expect, more coming. I'm having fun, except when I get tempted to look back at Wikipedia.... Someone may notice JzG's restoration of improperly sourced BLP material....

This post has been edited by Abd:

[Wikifan]

What's offensive about Wikifan's comment is "crying to wikipedia review." Last I noticed, I wasn't crying. Why should I cry when I set up a situation to test and demonstrate, should the test turn out that way, Wikipedia dysfunction? As well as what I expect to eventually do, show how what this experience implies could lead to better function?

Okay, maybe I should clarify. You aren't crying, but you are melting down. I totally understand the rage of getting sandbagged by wikipedia's judicial process when you feel the process was unfair and prejudged, but how long has your community ban been in effect? weeks? months?

i spent a few days defending myself in my AE, lost. angry for a few hours, then moved on and went back to school and deal with RL issues.

venting is okay when you have time to kill, but clearly you are intelligent enough to do something else with your time than entertaining the banished wikipedia editors here.

[Abd]

What's offensive about Wikifan's comment is "crying to wikipedia review." Last I noticed, I wasn't crying. Why should I cry when I set up a situation to test and demonstrate, should the test turn out that way, Wikipedia dysfunction? As well as what I expect to eventually do, show how what this experience implies could lead to better function?

Okay, maybe I should clarify. You aren't crying, but you are melting down.

Really? How? I'm documenting and describing what happened. I'm not upset, I consider what has happened to be normal response for that community. Lots of people have experienced it. It's predictable from the structure.

I totally understand the rage of getting sandbagged by wikipedia's judicial process when you feel the process was unfair and prejudged, but how long has your community ban been in effect? weeks? months?

There were a series of bans. The longest-standing one was the so-called MYOB ban, passed as part of RfAr/Abd-William M. Connolley, in September, 2009, as a never-before-declared ban, invented for me. Indef. Originally, it passed with a mentor escape clause, it might not have passed without that, but then the mentor provision, another remedy, did not pass, and the offer of an arbitrator to mentor me was later rejected by the Arbitration Committee.

Look, Wikifan, it's Kafkaesque, the whole thing. You could think that I'm angry, because maybe you'd be angry if this happened to you. What I feel when I'm emotionally affected by this, as I've been on occasion, is more a sense of perplexity and hopelessness, it shows up as an obsession, an inability to sleep, for example, no matter what I tell myself. That's not common, though, I've only felt that a couple of times over the four years as an active Wikipedian.

i spent a few days defending myself in my AE, lost. angry for a few hours, then moved on and went back to school and deal with RL issues.

You are in a very different position in life than I. For starters, I'm 67 years old, I have seven children and six grandchildren, two of my children are very young and I'm involved in their care, but I'm also retired, mostly. My long-term interest is community structure and process, and what I'm doing at the present time with Wikipedia is demonstrating certain models that have transformative power, in my experience. I don't expect this to be understood at this point, most people, even those sympathetic, don't. But I'm not asking anyone to do anything unless it seems right to them....

venting is okay when you have time to kill, but clearly you are intelligent enough to do something else with your time than entertaining the banished wikipedia editors here.

Perhaps. It's something I frequently consider. But I also have the sense I'm not quite done with Wikipedia.

Look, it's fun to act and move outside the box. I don't have anything to lose here (other than my time), I'm already banned XXX. What more can they do? I'll admit something: it was a nuisance when all those files were MfD'd because I didn't want to lose them and I had to download them, and the attached talk pages, that was one huge MfD, it took hours, I was worried the MfD would snow, so I had to act quickly. There was nothing really unusual about this, I've seen a lot of user files deleted once the editor is banned.

In the end, some editors did save some of the files of obvious utility, but there were others that were missed. The only problem for me was due to my own lack of preparation. Any other problem is a loss to Wikipedia, not to me.

One thing that the MfD showed was that ArbComm was not interested in maintaining transparency, because they allowed evidence used in a significant case to be deleted (and they knew about it). (And another file that was deleted was accessory evidence in RfC/GoRight, and was also cited in the later RfAr as well, it was a study in mutual involvement, an issue that ArbComm has been as eager to take up as it would be to have multiple root canal operations. The file was not an attack page, at all. It is not a crime to be involved.)

I'm not surprised, but neither would I have predicted this. To me, it simply put another nail in the coffin of the respect I once had for ArbComm.

I'm open to being surprised, and there have been nifty surprises all along. For example, I just noticed that a month ago, some editor, never heard of him before, put a link to the Wikiversity Cold fusion/Energy Catalyzer resource in the WP Energy Catalyzer article.... those should be routine, in fact, and if there isn't a Wikiversity resource on a topic that someone wants to discuss, they should create one! This, just by itself, is a way to blow the lid off of Wikipedia....

[thekohser]

In the end, some editors did save some of the files of obvious utility, but there were others that were missed. The only problem for me was due to my own lack of preparation. Any other problem is a loss to Wikipedia, not to me.

If you ask nicely, there are admins here who would happily give you the wikitext from any of the lost pages.

something productive. you aren't doing shit here.

Oh, the irony.

[Abd]

In the end, some editors did save some of the files of obvious utility, but there were others that were missed. The only problem for me was due to my own lack of preparation. Any other problem is a loss to Wikipedia, not to me.

If you ask nicely, there are admins here who would happily give you the wikitext from any of the lost pages.

I know that, Greg, but thanks. However, that was a very long list of pages. I didn't want to trouble an admin.

I did get the text of a deleted revision, last month, when they were pulling that stunt (Using revision delete to conceal harmless/helpful edits) in history, going well beyond RBI.

Anyway, I think I saved it all. Just took me a couple of hours.

something productive. you aren't doing shit here.

Oh, the irony.

Yeah. Am so doing shit!