The TimidGuy case, aye, there's the rub Options

[Herschelkrustofsky]

TimidGuy is appealing his ban, which was executed by Jimbo in a GodKingly fashion at the request of Will Beback, who sent Jimbo a private email in which he alleged that TG was a paid advocate for the Transcendental Meditators. This situation raises numerous questions.

1. TG and WB have been going at if for a while as WP:ADVOCATES on opposing sides of the Transcendental Meditation issue. For argument's sake, let's assume that Will's allegations are correct, and TG is a paid advocate for TM. Does that make his editing more disruptive than that of Will, acting as an unpaid advocate against TM? Will's fanaticism on the topic is well known, and that fact that he is presumably doing it without compensation makes him possibly the more disruptive of the two, because he is so consumed with zeal to expose and discredit the meditators (misusing Wikipedia as a soapbox for that purpose), that he does it for free.

2. If Will has in fact acquired private information about TG's pay stubs and what not, is that not WP:WIKIHOUNDING?

3. How does WP:COI come into play when allegations are made based on evidence that is not in the public domain? Doesn't such an allegation axiomatically violate WP:OUTING?

The Arbs are already neck-deep in conundra over this. It should be interesting to see how it plays out. My personal take on it causes me to ask this: why is Will Beback still allowed to be editor, let alone an admin?

[Selina]

Even more impressive is that "Will Beback: banned" is now at 7 votes, one vote away from passing.

I bet you're going to have a little party Herschelkrustofsky, aren't you, .....

The Larouche cult (more) seems no better than Scientology in how they attempt to destroy their enemies in any way possible, I hope someone else picks up after him on that at least even if he's a dick in other ways. I didn't realise just how creepy an organisation it is and wish I had looked into it before (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unhappy.gif)

Funny thing is that sockpuppetry really does destroy forums, as in nobody wants to have a conversation with two accounts/one guy.

A lot of times around here I get the impression just like on Wikipedia I'll start a good conversation, then some dimwit charges in with a cavalcade of socks and makes it all about their pet issue.

Other examples around here include HK with his LaRouche stuff and the Overstock.com crew.

Moderators don't think it's a big deal if it's someone they like. Basically no integrity whatsoever. It's all just a power struggle, now Selina tipped the balance a little bit and they're screaming bloody murder.

I thought I should come out and say this again, as I previously said to Hersch in private, and earlier in this thread, one of the things really bothered me for the integrity of WR was finding out that Hersch posted from the Party office of the larouche organisation, Hersch has not denied this and we've always ignored his POV on that because the amount of time he is able to spend on moderation outweighed the negatives — But then I thought, well, if he's being paid for actually helping use WR as a propaganda tool.... that makes me feel a bit sick, as if any political organisation had a semi-official foothold in WR when its meant to be a neutral watchdog really (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unhappy.gif) I think bringing the issue of his mass-sockpuppeting on Wikipedia is what really turned him against me, but I felt I had to ask if he was sockpuppeting here, he has vehemently denied it, but of course we have no way to know when its someone who's demonstrated expertise in it. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unhappy.gif) It just made me feel like WR had been "invaded" really. I never really looked into Larouche much before, but I have been reading up since finding out that Hersch was a heavy sockpuppeteer and the things I read troubled me a lot, it seems rather cultish in a way that reminds me of Scientology It just made me feel dirty that we are basically hosting subsections dedicated to "fair gaming" of "Suppressive Persons" who stand up against exactly the same attempts at whitewashing campaigns that Scientology has attempted on Wikipedia. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unhappy.gif)

this is coming a few days after mentioning his "Grand Theft Socking" on Wikipedia and asking if he had any here too, and whom I commented, to just a couple of hours earlier, that he has occasionally posted from the offices of the Larouche Party, which he didn't comment on but seems like it really annoyed him being found out.

• washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/cult/larouche/main.htm
• theforbiddentruth.net/4138-anti-semitism-larouche-movement-summary-very-informative.html
• adl.org/main_Extremism/Rense_Web_Site.htm "Rense has offered a platform to Lyndon LaRouche, an anti-Semitic conspiracy theorist" (and that's from an actual jew site)
• lyndonlarouche.org/quotes.htm
• wikipedia.org/wiki/Views_of_Lyndon_LaRouche_and_the_LaRouche_movement#Judaism_and_Zionism - may not like the content, but the sources there too look pretty reliable to me?
• jewishdefense.org/larouche/larouche.htm
• laroucheplanet.info/pmwiki/pmwiki.php?n=Cult.HolocaustDenial
• stormfront.org/rpo/LHL-MYST.htm - defence on neo-nazi site...

Needed to be said in public so people know what they are dealing with... I never really looked hard into who they were really before either, I thought just another crazy american political group, and that if people like Will Beback who went around bullying everyone hated them they can't be all that bad but they are pretty damn creepy.

I didn't know for 6 years that Hersch actually worked for the larouche Party and had never told us til I did some digging. He didn't deny it, but it's the fact that he never told any of us, and worked himself into a position of trust here to further his agenda in the same way he manipulates people on Wikipedia - that is what sickens me.

This: It's kind of a shame, because in the light of reading more about the Larouche party's neo-nazi version of scientiology-like loveliness, it seems like it was all just another case of the occasional bad people fighting other bad people and evening things out, and now I am figuring this is going to be like open season for the Party's sockpuppets now who have also apparently been using WR as a platform for years without telling us.

I hope they let other rabid admins loose on organisations that employ POV-pushers armed with the P words really, because that's about all that works against those kind of people - and at least puts the crazies and manipulators somewhere useful, fighting each other instead of hurting everyone else.

I just feel like it hurts others' rights too when hydras are used to drown out free speech - I accept it, and I'm not going on any kind of war, this is the end of it - as I said, the nature of the internet is vulnerable in a way that trying to fight it is literally pointless - corporations and PR companies know this, and we are going to see more and more taking advantage of this, as well as governments, in the future, but that is my prediction — and I'm not happy about making it, that is the way things are going, and will go unless some organisation like the EFF or something comes up with a bright idea on how to stop that "industry" growing and growing ... But I am not sure if there is anything that can be done to stop it. Sites like Wikipedia Review, Anonymous, Wikileaks, any watchdog will not be able to fight the highest bidder in a few years as the technology improves, I am sure of it (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unhappy.gif)

It may not be too bad now as it is mostly amateurs and "enthusiasts" (and illegal if caught in both the US and UK) for now though, and you're right that as long as there is enough scrutiny on what all of us say, and we keep a grain of salt rather than "good faith", we're probably ok, but yeah, it's for that same reason I was pretty uncomfortable with keeping it to myself too, I really had to get my concerns off my chest there.