Politics 101: Remedial or Virtual? Options

[Peter Damian]

Volunteer Marek (our Radek, I think) makes some great points at the current RfA talk. Read it for yourself. There should be a theme of the proposed book, which goes something like this: once upon a time, some IT geeks got together to build an encyclopedia. They knew a lot about bandwidth and html and networks and load balancing. They didn’t know much about stuff people learn in humanities departments but, hey, that didn’t matter, because the magic pixy-dust of technology would sort everything out, and all that humanities stuff was just the old way of doing things, and technology was the new way. What is a humanities department, anyway?

Ten years later they are faced with some pretty fundamental problems. And, er, these are the very problems that people who studied political science have known about for a long time. And there are some pretty straightforward answers. But no one asked, of course.

The thread also illustrates pretty well the famous stupidity of Wikipedians.

I am explaining this in detail here but honestly, this is like old school stuff. This is why almost pretty much every single position in the real world is subject to term limits. This is like Political Science 101. This is why I said that term limits are fundamental to any kind of meaningful RfA reform. You cannot even begin that conversation seriously without considering them. And these convoluted proposals for weird-ass term limits structures or what have you just distract folks - and hey, we all like to give our opinions about convoluted meaningless proposals - but let's keep it simple.
The only meaningful question here is actually how to deal with existing old-time administrators, given that we reasonably impose term limits on new ones. Do we keep the old guys? Do we make them go through it again? If so how? Etc. THAT is what the conversation should be about. Not this "if .0485 of voters express dissatisfaction then we move it to a committee which then decides whether to send it to an RfC for comment blah blah blah" crap.
There's no RfA reform without A-term limits.
Term limits first, details later. Volunteer Marek 06:15, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

“How can getting rid of all the admins (for their terms will all eventually expire) help the project? I think what you really mean is that wikipedia must move beyond volunteer editors. Hawkeye7 (talk) 05:46, 11 November 2011 (UTC)”

“Ok. Stop. Think. Stop. Think. ... are there any Senators in the US Senate? Do Senators terms expire? Yes? Are there still Senators in the US Senate? See what's wrong with what you just said? Volunteer Marek 06:18, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=460102419

This post has been edited by Peter Damian:

[Ottava]

Just wondering, but in what country do police have "term limits" and are voted in?

Admin aren't crafting policies (laws) so why is this even a discussion?

[Zoloft]

Just wondering, but in what country do police have "term limits" and are voted in?
Admin aren't crafting policies (laws) so why is this even a discussion?

Fuck it. I can't stay quiet in the face of such idiocy.

Officers in clubs, like the garden club or the art association, often serve terms of one year after election, subject to reelection. There's your model. The model airplane club. Rocketry club. Anime club. Whatever. Transition period for previous admins? Use the calendar date of their old RfA as the new RfA, starting one year from now.

Done.

Now I'm finished posting until the end of the month. Enjoy the respite.

[Ottava]

Just wondering, but in what country do police have "term limits" and are voted in?
Admin aren't crafting policies (laws) so why is this even a discussion?

Fuck it. I can't stay quiet in the face of such idiocy.

Officers in clubs, like the garden club or the art association, often serve terms of one year after election, subject to reelection. There's your model. The model airplane club. Rocketry club. Anime club. Whatever. Transition period for previous admins? Use the calendar date of their old RfA as the new RfA, starting one year from now.

Done.

Now I'm finished posting until the end of the month. Enjoy the respite.

"officers in clubs"? These aren't leaders.

I clearly said police. That is the only comparable thing. Are you just dumb or trolling? I suspect both.



Anyone dumb enough to try and compare admin on Wikipedia to elected positions which make laws when administrators clearly have no ability to make rules should honestly be banned from Wikipedia Review outright because there is no legitimate reason such idiocy should be allowed. That especially goes for GBG who has demonstrated such stupidity there isn't even words to describe it.

This post has been edited by Ottava:

[radek]

Just wondering, but in what country do police have "term limits" and are voted in?
Admin aren't crafting policies (laws) so why is this even a discussion?

Fuck it. I can't stay quiet in the face of such idiocy.

Officers in clubs, like the garden club or the art association, often serve terms of one year after election, subject to reelection. There's your model. The model airplane club. Rocketry club. Anime club. Whatever. Transition period for previous admins? Use the calendar date of their old RfA as the new RfA, starting one year from now.

Done.

Now I'm finished posting until the end of the month. Enjoy the respite.

"officers in clubs"? These aren't leaders.

I clearly said police. That is the only comparable thing. Are you just dumb or trolling? I suspect both.



Anyone dumb enough to try and compare admin on Wikipedia to elected positions which make laws when administrators clearly have no ability to make rules should honestly be banned from Wikipedia Review outright because there is no legitimate reason such idiocy should be allowed. That especially goes for GBG who has demonstrated such stupidity there isn't even words to describe it.

The police have the right to arrest you. They do not have the right to try, sentence and convict you (block you). Yours is a false analogy. Elected officials are much closer. If the block button got decoupled from other admin tasks (I'm still wondering why only admins get to close AfDs) then, THEN, maybe you'd have a point.

Honestly, though, all analogies to real life are going to break down at some point. The main reason why there should be fixed terms on Wikipedia is simply because they are needed, end of story.

This post has been edited by radek:

[Ottava]

The police have the right to arrest you. They do not have the right to try, sentence and convict you (block you).

Wow that is stupid.

Convict? Admins don't put people in jail. They throw you off someone else's property. Police do that all the time. Furthermore, they can throw people in jail for a limited period of time in the United States and for years at a time in other countries. Very few countries have what we have called "due process".



Furthermore, Peter, you are really taking the piss. Police don't all have annual reviews. Very few do. Most have long term union contracts in which they need to have a major offense before they are even considered to be terminated. In addition, the only time they do end up having reviews is when they are going for a promotion.

[radek]

The police have the right to arrest you. They do not have the right to try, sentence and convict you (block you).

Wow that is stupid.

Convict? Admins don't put people in jail. They throw you off someone else's property. Police do that all the time. Furthermore, they can throw people in jail for a limited period of time in the United States and for years at a time in other countries. Very few countries have what we have called "due process".



Furthermore, Peter, you are really taking the piss. Police don't all have annual reviews. Very few do. Most have long term union contracts in which they need to have a major offense before they are even considered to be terminated. In addition, the only time they do end up having reviews is when they are going for a promotion.

I knew I was going to regret even paying attention to you and trying to take you seriously.

Don't you have a dissertation to finish?

[Vigilant]

The police have the right to arrest you. They do not have the right to try, sentence and convict you (block you).

Wow that is stupid.

Convict? Admins don't put people in jail. They throw you off someone else's property. Police do that all the time. Furthermore, they can throw people in jail for a limited period of time in the United States and for years at a time in other countries. Very few countries have what we have called "due process".



Furthermore, Peter, you are really taking the piss. Police don't all have annual reviews. Very few do. Most have long term union contracts in which they need to have a major offense before they are even considered to be terminated. In addition, the only time they do end up having reviews is when they are going for a promotion.

I knew I was going to regret even paying attention to you and trying to take you seriously.

Don't you have a dissertation to finish?

Welcome to the largest club on WR. The "Jeffrey Peters is a fool" club.
You can pick up your jacket on the right.

The only question that remains is whether there are any active members of WR who aren't part of the club, with the exception of Jeffrey...