Is the WMF looking for a sub-lease tenant? Options

[thekohser]

Interesting scenario posted on Foundation-l mailing list this morning.

Greg

[One]

Good work. That lease deal from Wikia never passed the smell test.

Do you happen to know if the board discussed or voted on it?

[Emperor]

Good story. I've responded on Akahele.

[thekohser]

Good work. That lease deal from Wikia never passed the smell test.

Do you happen to know if the board discussed or voted on it?

According to Sue Gardner, the buck stopped with her, so from her words, I would say it is unlikely that the Board voted on the rent-from-Wikia deal. The highest it went was the Executive Director, who reports to the Board.

I'm confident that if the Board were to review the deal, their weak and spineless reaction would be to applaud the "synergy" obtained by working with a close ally like Wikia.

[One]

Emperor

Nice story. Donations of time or money to Wikipedia are also donations to Wikia, a for-profit company.

The silly thing is, Wikia makes so little money that Jimmy would probably be better off selling it and focusing on Wikipedia.

Have you explained “nofollow” recently?

I don't know what their agreement might look like, but it's probable that venture capitalists are the majority owners of Wikia. And if you're offering to buy it, I wouldn't be too surprised if they'd like to get rid of it hardly any premium above book value.

(Not a criticism of Jimbo or anyone else--these ventures are much more often losers than winners--but the winners are sometimes very big winners. Was it crazy to invest in a project led by one who (co-)founded one of the top ten websites on the internet? Probably not--you'd be surprised at the projects who scored financing before the credit crisis. Some of the winners are surprising. I mean, Twitter!? But at this point, I think a rational investor would conclude that Wikia isn't going to be one of those winners.)

[Rhindle]

They don't seem to be taking this seriously.

Yes, as noted in our 09-10 plan, we are relocating to a new space, as
a consequence of which the current satellite office will be re-merged
into the new HQ. We're hoping to sublet the Stillman space, once we've
covered up the entrance to our secret underground lair of doom and
despair, and removed all artifacts of alien technology.
--
Erik Möller
Deputy Director, Wikimedia Foundation

[anthony]

I don't know what their agreement might look like, but it's probable that venture capitalists are the majority owners of Wikia.

I wouldn't be surprised if they own 200% of it. Jimbo's no fool. He knows where the money is in dot com ventures, and it isn't in ownership.

This post has been edited by anthony: Fri 4th September 2009, 8:16pm

[Kelly Martin]

$25 a square foot? You can rent space in the Sears Tower (sorry, the Willis Tower, a/k/a The Big Willy) for $10-$12 a square foot, and that's A grade commercial. Stillman is at best B grade and might even be C grade; no way it's worth $25 a square foot.

[One]

$25 a square foot? You can rent space in the Sears Tower (sorry, the Willis Tower, a/k/a The Big Willy) for $10-$12 a square foot, and that's A grade commercial. Stillman is at best B grade and might even be C grade; no way it's worth $25 a square foot.

I wouldn't be so sure it's an outrageous asking price (even if it's a far-fetched market price). Poking around, it seems that San Francisco is just fabulously expensive. http://www.joneslanglasalle-ca.com/researc...nsight_2Q09.pdf

It's amazing to me that the best possible real estate in Chicago is cheaper than crap in SF. They chose a helluva time to expand into Wikia space.

This post has been edited by One: Fri 4th September 2009, 9:01pm

[GlassBeadGame]

$25 a square foot? You can rent space in the Sears Tower (sorry, the Willis Tower, a/k/a The Big Willy) for $10-$12 a square foot, and that's A grade commercial. Stillman is at best B grade and might even be C grade; no way it's worth $25 a square foot.

I wouldn't be so sure it's an outrageous asking price (even if it's a far-fetched market price). Poking around, it seems that San Francisco is just fabulously expensive. http://www.joneslanglasalle-ca.com/researc...nsight_2Q09.pdf

It's amazing to me that the best possible real estate in Chicago is cheaper than crap in SF. They chose a helluva time to expand into Wikia space.

Wow, Class A in the Central Business District at 39.00/sq ft. Coming from deep in fly-over America that seems extreme. Of course a non-profit doesn't need (and it does appear unseemly) Class A space and doesn't need to be in the CBD. From what I've seen WMF's space it is neither. I suppose you could make a business reason argument for being in SF but not in such a rarefied neighborhood. WMF resources would be better used building a staff infrastructure that could impose some policies support responsible editorial and social concerns.

But my understand is Wikia rents from WMF. If that is right I see no impropriety. If I have that backwards it would be a serous problem.

[Kelly Martin]

But my understand is Wikia rents from WMF. If that is right I see no impropriety. If I have that backwards it would be a serous problem.

It would be improper if the rent was substantially below market, since that would amount to self-dealing resulting in financial detriment to the nonprofit. However, the reality is that Wikia is leasing to Wikimedia, which means the lease is being used essentially as a vehicle to "launder" restricted donations into private funds. And, based on the discussion that followed, it seems that Wikia's offer wasn't the lowest; it was merely judged to be the "best".

[One]

But my understand is Wikia rents from WMF. If that is right I see no impropriety. If I have that backwards it would be a serous problem.

One of the comments on Koh's post said that. Maybe I'm in error, but it sounded like they were renting space from Wikia. http://blog.wikimedia.org/2009/01/21/a-not...ity-initiative/

[anthony]

But my understand is Wikia rents from WMF. If that is right I see no impropriety. If I have that backwards it would be a serous problem.

One of the comments on Koh's post said that. Maybe I'm in error, but it sounded like they were renting space from Wikia. http://blog.wikimedia.org/2009/01/21/a-not...ity-initiative/

The WMF *is* leasing space from Wikia. But that's old news. The new news is that the WMF is moving out of its current location and trying to sublet it out.

Does anyone know what the per square foot rate is the WMF is paying to Wikia?

By the way, the $25/square foot is only the asking price, for the Stillman Street location. AFAIK there are no takers yet.

[Kelly Martin]

I think the best conclusion is that Wikimedia will be taking over the rest of Wikia's office space now that Wikia is, essentially, no longer a viable business concern. This will lead to Wikia getting an even larger lease payment from Wikimedia.

[anthony]

I think the best conclusion is that Wikimedia will be taking over the rest of Wikia's office space now that Wikia is, essentially, no longer a viable business concern. This will lead to Wikia getting an even larger lease payment from Wikimedia.

C'mon now. Jimbo was just bragging on Twitter about how Wikia was doing so much better than Mahalo. Would he really be doing that if Wikia was about to go under?

Nevermind.

[SB_Johnny]

Isn't most of Las Vegas on the sheriff sale block these days?

[Kelly Martin]

C'mon now. Jimbo was just bragging on Twitter about how Wikia was doing so much better than Mahalo. Would he really be doing that if Wikia was about to go under?

Of course.

[No one of consequence]

But my understand is Wikia rents from WMF. If that is right I see no impropriety. If I have that backwards it would be a serous problem.

It would be improper if the rent was substantially below market, since that would amount to self-dealing resulting in financial detriment to the nonprofit. However, the reality is that Wikia is leasing to Wikimedia, which means the lease is being used essentially as a vehicle to "launder" restricted donations into private funds. And, based on the discussion that followed, it seems that Wikia's offer wasn't the lowest; it was merely judged to be the "best".

TFA says Wikia did not have the lowest bid but they lowered their price to be "closer", whatever that means. Needs a reliable source.

[thekohser]

But my understand is Wikia rents from WMF. If that is right I see no impropriety. If I have that backwards it would be a serous problem.

It would be improper if the rent was substantially below market, since that would amount to self-dealing resulting in financial detriment to the nonprofit. However, the reality is that Wikia is leasing to Wikimedia, which means the lease is being used essentially as a vehicle to "launder" restricted donations into private funds. And, based on the discussion that followed, it seems that Wikia's offer wasn't the lowest; it was merely judged to be the "best".

TFA says Wikia did not have the lowest bid but they lowered their price to be "closer", whatever that means. Needs a reliable source.

Will you accept the published word of the Deputy Director of the Wikimedia Foundation?

Also, what do you mean by "TFA says"?

This post has been edited by thekohser: Sat 5th September 2009, 5:16pm