Sex by surprise Options

[TungstenCarbide]

Before this story broke, it was clear that there was something not quite right in the world of WikiLeaks. That being said, when your fact gathering is through the media, you have to be entirely suspicious of why you are being told what you are being told. I have a rule that you should treat a subject you know nothing about with the same scepticism as those you know about: simple example, when have the press ever managed an accurate story about Wikipedia that shows that they know what they are talking about, so why should we think that the press is helpful in understanding Assange?

Assange has been celebrated in the press for a long time. My take on him never matched the dozens of articles painting him as an honorable and fearless whistleblower. You can see that in my earlier posts before these negative articles started coming out. So you don't need to tell me to be skeptical of the press.

Contrast Assange with Michale Moore. Moore's been married to the same woman for twenty years. He's willing to face the people he criticizes, eye to eye. By all accounts, he's no bigot. He's a real stand-up man you can respect, even if you don't agree with him. Assange is a philandering anti-American bigot, who hides like a coward while sniping. He'll never be a stand-up man like Michael Moore.

This post has been edited by TungstenCarbide: Tue 21st December 2010, 3:30pm

[Herschelkrustofsky]

Contrast Assange with Michale Moore. Moore's been married to the same woman for twenty years. He's willing to face the people he criticizes, eye to eye. By all accounts, he's no bigot. He's a real stand-up man you can respect, even if you don't agree with him. Assange is a philandering anti-American bigot, who hides like a coward while sniping. He'll never be a stand-up man like Michael Moore.

Michael Moore is not free from sin, either. After making a decent film, "Sicko," which exposed the criminality of the HMOs, Moore then followed Obama like an eager puppy, even as Obama transformed the US health system into one giant HMO.

[TungstenCarbide]

Contrast Assange with Michale Moore. Moore's been married to the same woman for twenty years. He's willing to face the people he criticizes, eye to eye. By all accounts, he's no bigot. He's a real stand-up man you can respect, even if you don't agree with him. Assange is a philandering anti-American bigot, who hides like a coward while sniping. He'll never be a stand-up man like Michael Moore.

Michael Moore is not free from sin, either. After making a decent film, "Sicko," which exposed the criminality of the HMOs, Moore then followed Obama like an eager puppy, even as Obama transformed the US health system into one giant HMO.

So they failed to slay Goliath. At least they tried.

Assange, on the other hand, paints himself as some honorable truth and justice crusader, but all he does is sling prurient gossip while hiding like a coward, and screwing everyone he can before discarding them.

This post has been edited by TungstenCarbide: Tue 21st December 2010, 3:51pm

[dogbiscuit]

Assange has been celebrated in the press for a long time. My take on him never matched the dozens of articles painting him as an honorable and fearless whistleblower. You can see that in my earlier posts before these negative articles started coming out. So you don't need to tell me to be skeptical of the press.

Contrast Assange with Michale Moore. Moore's been married to the same woman for twenty years. He's willing to face the people he criticizes, eye to eye. By all accounts, he's no bigot. He's a real stand-up man you can respect, even if you don't agree with him. Assange is a philandering anti-American bigot, who hides like a coward while sniping. He'll never be a stand-up man like Michael Moore.

Agree - in fact there are a long line of honourable journalists who are thorns in the sides of the powers that be. The likes of Assange have the potential to do a lot of damage to quality investigative journalism.

There are few others I have time for along with Moore (who had an excellent series TV Nation that worked very well in the UK before he went big screen): one is Robert Fisk, who refuses to tow any party line in his despair over the Israeli-Palestine conflict: the Israelis hate him because he points out the inequities of the situation there, but he has little time for the corrupt government of the Palestinians either.

I think I detect a change in the press, from uncritical adulation of lazy journalists, to a position of setting a healthy distance in case it all goes tits up. It doesn't mean that Sweden is acting appropriately, and it is unfortunate that they have let the legal process get unnecessarily politicised.

[SB_Johnny]

Wait, I thought we were talking about Assange; why are you listing Jimmy Wales' traits?

Assange did an interview on the BBC this morning, FYI. Jimmy could have stood in for him perfectly, assuming he could pull off the accent.

[RMHED]

Wait, I thought we were talking about Assange; why are you listing Jimmy Wales' traits?

Assange did an interview on the BBC this morning, FYI. Jimmy could have stood in for him perfectly, assuming he could pull off the accent.

He's Jimmy's Mini-Me.

Let's hope Jules he doesn't leak when he has his 'accident'.

[EricBarbour]

Yes, please gents, can you take the healthcare bit to the lounge area?
Thank you? Haveaniceday?

This post has been edited by EricBarbour: Wed 22nd December 2010, 2:12am

[Herschelkrustofsky]

Yes, please gents, can you take the healthcare bit to the lounge area?

Done. Actually, it's in Politics, Religion and Such. In the future, don't wait for us to get around to reading your request -- use the Batsignal.

[TungstenCarbide]

Thank you? Haveaniceday?

Kiss my hairy ass?

[dogbiscuit]

Assange's glow with the press is fading: The Independent disapproves.

Christina Patterson: How a prophet of protest lost the moral plot:
Julian Assange has just revealed more of himself than was wise

[TungstenCarbide]

Assange's glow with the press is fading: The Independent disapproves.

Christina Patterson: How a prophet of protest lost the moral plot:Julian Assange has just revealed more of himself than was wise

Assange: 'I am not going to be exposing other people's private lives or my own more than is absolutely necessary. That is not what a gentleman does'

Interesting, this animal considers himself a 'gentleman'.

[wikieyeay]

Wait, I thought we were talking about Assange; why are you listing Jimmy Wales' traits?

Assange did an interview on the BBC this morning, FYI. Jimmy could have stood in for him perfectly, assuming he could pull off the accent.

Jimbo must be kicking himself over the fact that he's not the world's most famous Wiki* website leader. Taken out by a white-haired Australian.

What a humiliation.

[Milton Roe]

Wait, I thought we were talking about Assange; why are you listing Jimmy Wales' traits?

Assange did an interview on the BBC this morning, FYI. Jimmy could have stood in for him perfectly, assuming he could pull off the accent.

Jimbo must be kicking himself over the fact that he's not the world's most famous Wiki* website leader. Taken out by a white-haired Australian.

What a humiliation.

In revenge, the peregrinations of Assange's bodily fluids and his predilection for assignations with admirers are being given far more extensive and detailed analysis on WP, than they were when Jimbo Wales was the target, back in the day.

What the media is doing to Assange is almost Clinton-esque. No, I take it back-- it is Clinton-esque. (I would say Arbuckle-esque but nobody would know what the hell I meant by THAT.) Only political revenge can generate this much interest in a sexual episode in which nobody was injured, and the delicate and tangled matter of what things were and weren't given permission for (as we go down our checklist of the many pages of possible sexual acts), are a matter of he-said/she-said.

In my world, if a woman is psychologically devastated by something physical that a man did to her, she usually doesn't go out to buy food with which to make him breakfast, then drive him to the train station. Then find out he had sex with another woman four days before, THEN go screaming to the cops about having been abused. Abused she might have been, but the time to decide THAT had long since gone, methinks. There has to be a statute of limitations for that sort of thing, even if both sides admit to exactly what happened. Be reasonable here.

[TungstenCarbide]

Wait, I thought we were talking about Assange; why are you listing Jimmy Wales' traits?

Assange did an interview on the BBC this morning, FYI. Jimmy could have stood in for him perfectly, assuming he could pull off the accent.

Jimbo must be kicking himself over the fact that he's not the world's most famous Wiki* website leader. Taken out by a white-haired Australian.

What a humiliation.

In revenge, the peregrinations of Assange's bodily fluids and his predilection for assignations with admirers are being given far more extensive and detailed analysis on WP, than they were when Jimbo Wales was the target, back in the day.

What the media is doing to Assange is almost Clinton-esque. No, I take it back-- it is Clinton-esque. (I would say Arbuckle-esque but nobody would know what the hell I meant by THAT.) Only political revenge can generate this much interest in a sexual episode in which nobody was injured, and the delicate and tangled matter of what things were and weren't given permission for (as we go down our checklist of the many pages of possible sexual acts), are a matter of he-said/she-said.

In my world, if a woman is psychologically devastated by something physical that a man did to her, she usually doesn't go out to buy food with which to make him breakfast, then drive him to the train station. Then find out he had sex with another woman four days before, THEN go screaming to the cops about having been abused. Abused she might have been, but the time to decide THAT had long since gone, methinks. There has to be a statute of limitations for that sort of thing, even if both sides admit to exactly what happened. Be reasonable here.

"Only political revenge can generate this much interest in a sexual episode"

No, the sexual activities of any famous person are of keen interest to the public. Assange is a predatory pig which makes it even more interesting. Political revenge just added some oomph to the press reports, and I'm sure the US was thrilled to 'encourage' Sweden to issue a warrant.

As to why she went to the police after making him breakfast, it's simple ... the women found out about each other and realized they were used by a philandering pig. Had he been a decent human being and returned their calls, this probably wouldn't have amounted to anything.

Go get em Ladies!

This post has been edited by TungstenCarbide: Fri 24th December 2010, 1:43am

[wikieyeay]

In my world, if a woman is psychologically devastated by something physical that a man did to her, she usually doesn't go out to buy food with which to make him breakfast, then drive him to the train station.

I call BS on that, women get abused by men all the time, and still carry on cooking, cleaning, and serving them.

[anthony]

In my world, if a woman is psychologically devastated by something physical that a man did to her, she usually doesn't go out to buy food with which to make him breakfast, then drive him to the train station.

I call BS on that, women get abused by men all the time, and still carry on cooking, cleaning, and serving them.

I call BS on his whole post, including but not limited to that.

The unredacted police report obtained by the Guardian says that the two had sex, with a condom. In the report she described waking up to find him having sex with her again, without a condom. Later that morning, Ms. W. told police, Mr. Assange "ordered her to get some water and orange juice for him". She said "she didn't like being ordered around in her own home but got it anyway." That account led to the prosecutors listing rape among the allegations they wanted to question Mr. Assange about lawyers for the Swedish prosecutors said.

[anthony]

As to why she went to the police after making him breakfast, it's simple ... the women found out about each other and realized they were used by a philandering pig. Had he been a decent human being and returned their calls, this probably wouldn't have amounted to anything.

The two women who say they were sexually assaulted by the WikiLeaks editor Julian Assange would never have complained to police if he had agreed to take an HIV test, The Mail on Sunday can reveal.

WikiLeaks’s Swedish co-ordinator, who worked closely with Mr Assange for months, said in an exclusive interview that he repeatedly begged his boss to have the test, both to head off the possible police investigation and for Mr Assange’s own peace of mind, given his promiscuous sex life.

‘The two women told me, that if he goes to the clinic for an HIV test, then we won’t go to the police,’ said Mr Assange’s colleague, who wishes to remain anonymous because he is a witness in the case brought by Swedish prosecutors, which led to Mr Assange spending nine days in Wandsworth Prison pending extradition.

The WikiLeaks co-ordinator said he felt certain that the two women – who both allege that Mr Assange forced them to have intercourse during the same week in August without using a condom, against their express wishes – had nothing to do with any supposed American intelligence plot to discredit him, as he has frequently claimed.

‘The CIA is not behind this at all,’ he said. ‘Of course it is a golden opportunity for them. But from the beginning, it was personal.’

He said Mr Assange refused to take the test until it was too late, when all the Swedish clinics had closed for the weekend: ‘Julian said, “I don’t like it when people are blackmailing me, and they are blackmailing me by threatening to go to the police”.’

Mr Assange also told him that he had spoken to one of the alleged victims, known as ‘Ms W’, assuring him that ‘she is fine, she won’t go to the police’. The WikiLeaks co-ordinator knew from his own conversations with Ms W that she was not fine at all, but terrified she had been infected.

Mr Assange’s British lawyer, Mark Stephens, said his client had taken a test for HIV and other sexually transmitted diseases at a later date, which showed he was not infected.
‘If it is true that all the women really wanted was for him to be tested, and that this would have stopped the case, then it is very disappointing that it has got so far,’ he said.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13...l#ixzz18zXdtaQl

Again, none of this has been proven. But it paints a picture that makes sense.

[Milton Roe]

As to why she went to the police after making him breakfast, it's simple ... the women found out about each other and realized they were used by a philandering pig. Had he been a decent human being and returned their calls, this probably wouldn't have amounted to anything.

The two women who say they were sexually assaulted by the WikiLeaks editor Julian Assange would never have complained to police if he had agreed to take an HIV test, The Mail on Sunday can reveal.

WikiLeaks’s Swedish co-ordinator, who worked closely with Mr Assange for months, said in an exclusive interview that he repeatedly begged his boss to have the test, both to head off the possible police investigation and for Mr Assange’s own peace of mind, given his promiscuous sex life.

‘The two women told me, that if he goes to the clinic for an HIV test, then we won’t go to the police,’ said Mr Assange’s colleague, who wishes to remain anonymous because he is a witness in the case brought by Swedish prosecutors, which led to Mr Assange spending nine days in Wandsworth Prison pending extradition.

The WikiLeaks co-ordinator said he felt certain that the two women – who both allege that Mr Assange forced them to have intercourse during the same week in August without using a condom, against their express wishes – had nothing to do with any supposed American intelligence plot to discredit him, as he has frequently claimed.

‘The CIA is not behind this at all,’ he said. ‘Of course it is a golden opportunity for them. But from the beginning, it was personal.’

He said Mr Assange refused to take the test until it was too late, when all the Swedish clinics had closed for the weekend: ‘Julian said, “I don’t like it when people are blackmailing me, and they are blackmailing me by threatening to go to the police”.’

Mr Assange also told him that he had spoken to one of the alleged victims, known as ‘Ms W’, assuring him that ‘she is fine, she won’t go to the police’. The WikiLeaks co-ordinator knew from his own conversations with Ms W that she was not fine at all, but terrified she had been infected.

Mr Assange’s British lawyer, Mark Stephens, said his client had taken a test for HIV and other sexually transmitted diseases at a later date, which showed he was not infected.
‘If it is true that all the women really wanted was for him to be tested, and that this would have stopped the case, then it is very disappointing that it has got so far,’ he said.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13...l#ixzz18zXdtaQl

Again, none of this has been proven. But it paints a picture that makes sense.

Any "sense" it makes, should make you ashamed to call "B.S." on anything I've said. Since I've been saying basically this story all along, and getting mostly cat-called for it.

Nobody comes out of this looking good, but any woman who screams "rape!" when what she really means is "Gee, I hope I don't have HIV!!" should be charged with perjury and some kind of criminal false accusation. For she has used the law to commit a battery against a man, and she has slandered the man, lied to her society, and (not least) betrayed her fellow women, who'd like to be taken a little more seriously than this kind of story encourages them to be in the future.

Cry wolf. Cry BS. But not to me.

If you choose to lie down with dogs, I don't want you to think you should use the "remedy" of government police power when you get up with what you're afraid might be fleas.

[anthony]

Any "sense" it makes, should make you ashamed to call "B.S." on anything I've said. Since I've been saying basically this story all along, and getting mostly cat-called for it.

The story you've been saying all along may have included some elements of this, but certainly wasn't this.

It is, of course, quite possible that the woman was raped and she initially just wanted him to be tested for HIV.

Nobody comes out of this looking good, but any woman who screams "rape!" when what she really means is "Gee, I hope I don't have HIV!!" should be charged with perjury and some kind of criminal false accusation.

From what I've read, it seems to be the prosecutor who first screamed rape, and the woman merely screamed I woke up to him having sex with me without a condom, which, had Assange not been involved with Wikileaks, would have probably been swept under the rug, but is, nevertheless, rape, if it is proven.

If Assange didn't in fact wake Ms. W up to sex without a condom, and she did in fact claim that he did, she should, of course, be "charged with perjury and some kind of criminal false accusation".

This post has been edited by anthony: Fri 24th December 2010, 3:54am

[Milton Roe]

In my world, if a woman is psychologically devastated by something physical that a man did to her, she usually doesn't go out to buy food with which to make him breakfast, then drive him to the train station.

I call BS on that, women get abused by men all the time, and still carry on cooking, cleaning, and serving them.

After knowing them for 12 hours??

Look: if a normally intelligent adult self-supporting independent Swedish woman can be transformed into a complete Stepford Wife Zombie after one boring fuck, I'd say we have a new psychological syndrome to describe in that country. Roll over, Stockholm Syndrome; this is way, way, WAY better.

Of course, the other possiblity we haven't considered is that Assange is actually Dracula. Or perhaps one of the lesser-known Malfoys.