| |
|
  |
 Request For Comment JzG2, Is Mr. Guy Chapman (aka, JzG) going away? |
|
|
| WhispersOfWisdom |
|
Lee Nysted
Group: Regulars
Posts: 543
Joined:
Member No.: 2,310
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| WhispersOfWisdom |
|
Lee Nysted
Group: Regulars
Posts: 543
Joined:
Member No.: 2,310
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Somey |
|
Can't actually moderate (or even post)
Group: Moderators
Posts: 11,816
Joined:
From: Dreamland
Member No.: 275
|
I know they're just trying to be diplomatic, but all they're doing is further enabling him with this kind of nonsense: QUOTE Guy has been a fabulous asset to this encyclopedia, hardworking, dedicated and obviously wants the best for this project. None of that is true, of course, except maybe the "hardworking" part. His entire history is one of grandstanding, moth-to-flame attraction to high-profile drama cases, self-congratulation, and above all, revenge-mongering. And that's putting aside his willingness to be deceptive and sometimes completely dishonest in his ongoing effort to curry favor with the WP leadership. Whether or not he realizes that his main worth to them is to take on the attack-dog role is beside the point. It's probable that someone else would inevitably come along to take on that role if he were desysopped, but that doesn't mean the existence of attack-dog accounts is something people should just sit back and accept. These WP'ers will have to stand up for what's right if they ever hope to be taken seriously as a "project," or whatever they're calling themselves. JzG is, obviously, "burned out" and needs a long "wikibreak," but it isn't because he's been spending all that time doing good. He's been spending all that time doing damage, and not just to himself, either. |
|
|
|
|
|
| dogbiscuit |
|
Could you run through Verifiability not Truth once more?
Group: Members
Posts: 2,972
Joined:
From: The Midlands
Member No.: 4,015
|
I nearly posted the following over there, but decided it would be too inflamatory for an outside user to be involved. However, inbetweenies might like to take the message across:
The list of infractions is large, and in the main not disputed, and it is good to see that, though painful, there has not been any inappropriate attempt to defend inappropriate behaviour.
To me, the important issue is that the community has failed one of its own. Guy has been struggling, in public, with public criticism for a long time. The community has failed in its duty of care to its own. I place a certain amount of blame on those friends of Guy who put up words of support when his inappropriate behaviour was obvious. The toleration of inappropriate behaviour, under the guise of the ends justify the means, the good of the project, has been hurtful to Guy. To use a trite phrase, you can kill with kindness, words of support have reinforced Guy's belief that he was doing the right thing when he was not. The result is unsurprising and therefore does not reflect badly on Guy.
Solutions: Guy needs an enforced break, not something that is called a ban, nor something that is called a block. He needs to regain a proper perspective on life. Hopefully, Wikipedians who know him in the real world, can meet in the real world and offer him whatever support is needed: bring him back into the real world, with real world perspectives. As someone else noted: it is just a web site.
Wikipedians need to look to their own actions and realise that their unconditional public support for Guy in the face of inappropriate behaviour has had two consequences: the damage to the reputation of the project, and the personal damage to a member of the project. If people want to take a positive outcome from the RFC, do not focus on Guy, focus on where the community went astray. Simply put, zero tolerance of all inappropriate behaviour by admins as representatives of the project (whether you like it or not). Painful in the short term, good in the long term. And this is not personal, it is a much wider cultural problem, where well known admins are allowed to work to a lesser standard of behaviour "for the good of the project". Guy should never have been allowed to stray so far by his friends. Who will be next?
|
|
|
|
|
|
| WhispersOfWisdom |
|
Lee Nysted
Group: Regulars
Posts: 543
Joined:
Member No.: 2,310
|
QUOTE(WhispersOfWisdom @ Mon 3rd March 2008, 11:19pm)  I admire the people that have come forward trying to help Guy Chapman, JzG. I know first hand what it takes to do an intervention for someone that refuses to admit that they have a serious problem with life; living. Guy has some serious problems with mental and physical health, albeit he may someday surrender to the truth and win. He is bright and I suspect he is deeply loved by his family. A break would help, but may not, in fact, change the "Guy." Sometimes it takes rehabilitation, but it always takes a miracle in the form of a spiritual transformation and an experience that is truly spiritual. The recovery does not have to happen overnight...most often it takes a long time. Guy clearly has the "me disease" and until he understands it is not all about him, he may never recover. In the meantime he should lose his administrator tools and learn to edit, as Durova has. She is more of an asset to the project without the tools, right now. Humility is a good thing. His opinions may become more widely respected if he is forced to talk rather than lecture... and without the ability to push a destruct button or two. (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif) |
|
|
|
|
|
| WhispersOfWisdom |
|
Lee Nysted
Group: Regulars
Posts: 543
Joined:
Member No.: 2,310
|
QUOTE(Moulton @ Tue 4th March 2008, 10:14am)
Once again we see a reprise of the classic drama featuring Narcissus, Echo, and Echo Canceler.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Req..._Kirill_Lokshinand....with dozens of well respected editors coming forward to support views like the above, I suspect this issue does not have to go, nor should it be forced to go, to the feaux law court (ArbCom.) Someone will be bold and block JzG and that will be the end of it, if he does not respond. Then JzG can go to ArbCom. The community has spoken to Mr. Chapman. There is broad consensus for him to give up the tools. All the kings horses and all the kings men cannot put JzG back together again...not even Jimbo. Jimbo is losing his ability to have any respect of the people. This is a good thing for Wikipedia. This post has been edited by WhispersOfWisdom: |
|
|
|
|
|
| Viridae |
|
Fat Cat
Group: Regulars
Posts: 1,319
Joined:
Member No.: 1,498
|
QUOTE(WhispersOfWisdom @ Wed 5th March 2008, 1:23am) QUOTE(Moulton @ Tue 4th March 2008, 10:14am)
Once again we see a reprise of the classic drama featuring Narcissus, Echo, and Echo Canceler.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Req..._Kirill_Lokshinand....with dozens of well respected editors coming forward to support views like the above, I suspect this issue does not have to go, nor should it be forced to go, to the feaux law court (ArbCom.) Someone will be bold and block JzG and that will be the end of it, if he does not respond. Then JzG can go to ArbCom. The community has spoken to Mr. Chapman. There is broad consensus for him to give up the tools. All the kings horses and all the kings men cannot put JzG back together again...not even Jimbo. Jimbo is losing his ability to have any respect of the people. This is a good thing for Wikipedia. He won't be blocked for not responding. Wouldn't achieve anything. |
|
|
|
|
|
| WhispersOfWisdom |
|
Lee Nysted
Group: Regulars
Posts: 543
Joined:
Member No.: 2,310
|
QUOTE(Viridae @ Tue 4th March 2008, 4:19pm)
He won't be blocked for not responding. Wouldn't achieve anything.
Most editors would have been blocked long ago. Same thing with the other circus going on at Arbcom. The consensus is that JzG give up his tools, and / or simply leave WP. He sets a very low bar for the near vigilante types at WP. I knew JzG would eventually bring himself down. Even Britney was finally committed...against her own devices and vices. The JzG bullies of the world eventually self destruct, or they are taken away kicking and screaming that they are being mistreated. "You don't know who I am!" " I am MEEEE!" (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/ohmy.gif) |
|
|
|
|
|
| WhispersOfWisdom |
|
Lee Nysted
Group: Regulars
Posts: 543
Joined:
Member No.: 2,310
|
QUOTE(WhispersOfWisdom @ Mon 3rd March 2008, 11:50pm) ^ (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/ohmy.gif) More editors are supporting the position that is clearly a mandate for change. Is he open for recall? |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:
| |
