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LamontStormstar
post Sat 25th August 2007, 2:59am
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QUOTE(alienus @ Fri 24th August 2007, 7:38pm) *

QUOTE(Pwok @ Thu 23rd August 2007, 2:23pm) *

No, not here. WJBscribe expressed his support after Ryan Jordan's fraud had been exposed. WJBscribe is still an administrator at Wikipedia, and he has used his power to keep verified, public-record fact out of an article. That's corruption, plain and simple. I realize this might be too much blunt truth for Wikipedians and their defenders who have a tangential relationship with the truth, but so be it.


This is par for the course. Look at how Jayg and his Snippies have kept verified, public-record facts out of the various Circumcision articles and terrorized anyone stupid enough to oppose them. It's not news when a Wikipedia admin proves to be corrupt; it's news when even one proves to be honest and yet survives.

Al



I've seen one thing Jayjg has done for years is to just go and fish in checkuser and then claim everyone on the same ISP are all socks and ban them.

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alienus
post Sat 25th August 2007, 3:26am
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Fuck Wikipedia

I couldn't have said it better.

Many people, for reasons of privacy and common sense, put aside their real-world credentials and instead argue on the basis of evidence that they can easily dig up due to the knowledge that earned them those credentials. It's a harder path, but if you want to argue from evidence, not authority, this is the way to go. It's not so much anti-expert as it is an acknowledgement that expertise is more important than experthood.

Now, I'm not against those who admit to their credentials, so long as they still argue from the evidence, instead of expecting us to trust them just because they really ought to know. The "just trust me" approach disturbs me because, in fact, people can be trusted least when they know their claims can't be checked. What gives the opinions of academics weight in the real world is that we can be sure that other academics are keeping them honest, but no such checks and balances exist here.

It would be bad enough that Jordan took that approach, but the fact that the credentials themselves were fake just underscores what's wrong with it. The truth is that experts can be biased, incompetent or simply mistaken, and that's assuming they're not simply frauds. Just as Jordan was star-struck by Jimbo, too many editors are equally befuddled by claims of advanced degrees or even by the raw power of the sysop bit, which people seem to assume grants admins super-human judgement.

It's not just Jordan, either. Recently, Proabivouac took advantage of the open secret that he is the sock puppet of linguist Timothy Usher to, ironically, get some people thrown off as sock puppets. He claimed to match new users to banned ones with certainty based on similarities in their writing style. Of course, that's not how linguistics works. It's based on analyzing large bodies of text written by groups of people to find relationships (not identity) between dialects, tracing the origins of words and other changes in language. Applying it forensically is, at the very least, dubious.

As it happens, I know for a fact that, in at least one case and probably others, Proabivouac was wrong or just plain lied. In doing so, his methodology for proving identity was obviously flawed and would have been ripped to shreds in any environment where academic rigor is enforced by peer review. SOPHIA, whose background in physics gives her a solid grasp of statistics and the scientific method, tore this moron a new asshole in her analysis, but that's being soundly ignored so far as I can tell. Note that she didn't just wave her degrees around and say that was reason enough to trust her, she showed all her work and defended her methodology without appealing to authority.

Whether Proabivoac is merely overwhelmed by his own hubris or knows he's blowing smoke up people's asses is an open question, and I welcome his answer here. Regardless of the basis of his false accusations, real people are being hurt. Add to this the hypocrisy of a sock puppet pretending to out others for sock puppetry and you get... well, business as usual at Wikipedia.

To which I say: Fuck Wikipedia and anyone who supports it.

Al
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LamontStormstar
post Sat 25th August 2007, 6:01am
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"I've analyized their writing style" is a common lie on wikipedia. Most people believe that lie, unfortunately.
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blissyu2
post Sat 25th August 2007, 6:14am
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QUOTE(LamontStormstar @ Sat 25th August 2007, 1:29pm) *

I've seen one thing Jayjg has done for years is to just go and fish in checkuser and then claim everyone on the same ISP are all socks and ban them.


Heh. That's beautiful. One of the best posts I've seen for ages. It'd be great if it was backed up with a link though. Can anyone find a link to an example of this kind of thing?

Perhaps Ruylong banning an entire ISP in India with 1000s of users just because he thought that it might be used by one user who he didn't like.
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alienus
post Sat 25th August 2007, 8:52am
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QUOTE(LamontStormstar @ Fri 24th August 2007, 10:59pm) *

I've seen one thing Jayjg has done for years is to just go and fish in checkuser and then claim everyone on the same ISP are all socks and ban them.


I've been thinking more and more that the whole idea of hunting for sock puppets with checkuser is inherently flawed. It's not just a recipe for a witch hunt, it's ultimately doomed to failure and false positives.

One of the themes I've encountered is that WP is a MMORPG. While there's certainly much humor and some truth to this, there's also the kernal of some good ideas. In an RPG, you level up over time, gaining benefits. If WP accounts gained power with a growing track record of positive contributions, there'd be little incentive to puppetry.

The problem is that it requires admins who aren't incompetent or corrupt, which is a fatal flaw on WP. It also requires that WP give up on the pseudo-democracy nonsense that makes puppet-voting so appealing. These are really two sides to the same coin: we need content dispute resolution that's not conducive to mob rule.

Al

QUOTE(LamontStormstar @ Sat 25th August 2007, 2:01am) *

"I've analyized their writing style" is a common lie on wikipedia. Most people believe that lie, unfortunately.


It's one of those things where every two-bit idiot with a sysop bit (hi, SV!) thinks they're an expert, and even the supposed experts (hi, Pro!) are fucking incompetent. It amounts to a claim of witchcraft.

See my recent post for why the whole puppet thing is fucking retarded.

Al
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