Sex by surprise Options

[anthony]

Assange denies the charges, which his lawyer, described as stemming from a "dispute over consensual but unprotected sex", which may constitute rape under the Swedish law.

So babymaking "may" be illegal in Sweden? Yeah right. Sounds like a spin job to me.

And yeah, I have no idea what forum this is supposed to go into.

EDIT: Oops, forgot the link.

This post has been edited by anthony:

[Mr. Mystery]

Seems he is inclined towards unprotected sex: http://www.okcupid.com/profile/HarryHarrison

This post has been edited by Mr. Mystery:

[Milton Roe]

Seems he is inclined towards unprotected sex: http://www.okcupid.com/profile/HarryHarrison

This just in from today. Such sweetly crafted justice for a Wikileaker:

LONDON — Julian Assange, the founder of the WikiLeaks anti-secrecy organization who was released from a British jail late last week, is facing a new challenge: the leak of a 68-page confidential Swedish police report that sheds new light on the allegations of sexual misconduct that led to Mr. Assange’s legal troubles.

Leaving aside the fact that Mr. Assange's personal habits and court cases are going to be all over the web, what do we think about this?

Suppose a man and woman agree to have sex, and the woman's demand is that the man wear a condom. And let us suppose he agrees, then later in the night tricks the woman into sex in which he isn't using one.

Now-- what should be the penalty. Stipulate no harm but psychological done-- the woman does not get pregnant nor catch a disease. Is this, or should this be, a felony?

Turn it around. A man and woman agree to have sex, and the man's demand is that the woman should be taking birth control pills. She promises that she is, but and lies. She does get pregnant. She also says she's never been treated for an STD, but has, and in this case gives the man a rather nasty one, albeit not a fatal or incurable one.

This has happened a number of times, and courts have decided that the man in such situations is basically out of luck. He has to pay child support if the mother decides to have the child. His STD is his own problem, unless possibly it's Hep C, herpes II, or HIV, in which last case he can sue for willful endangerment (in some places).

Now, isn't all this rather a double standard? How much should people who make passionate promises be held to keeping them? Always? As a civil matter? As a criminal matter? Only if physical harm is done? Only if the "victim" is female?

[anthony]

Leaving aside the fact that Mr. Assange's personal habits and court cases are going to be all over the web, what do we think about this?

We're certainly leaving aside the Assange case, since there is no mention of how the man "stopped her by holding her arms and pinning her legs". And that's the woman he's *not* accused of raping. To cover the rape allegation we'd have to talk about a woman "waking up to find him having sex with her again".

I'm going to point out that these are all just allegations, and that Assange has not yet had a proper chance to respond to these allegations. I'm not saying they're true, just that they're worthy of investigation.

Suppose a man and woman agree to have sex, and the woman's demand is that the man wear a condom. And let us suppose he agrees, then later in the night tricks the woman into sex in which he isn't using one.

Now-- what should be the penalty. Stipulate no harm but psychological done-- the woman does not get pregnant nor catch a disease. Is this, or should this be, a felony?

Probably not a felony, but it's clearly assault, no? It's a misdemeanor at the least. Do you have any evidence that it *is* a felony?

Say a pizza delivery man does nasty things to someone's pizza. Stipulate no harm but psychological done--the pizza eaters don't get pregnant nor catch a disease. Is this, or should this be, a felony?

Turn it around. A man and woman agree to have sex, and the man's demand is that the woman should be taking birth control pills. She promises that she is, but and lies. She does get pregnant.

Not assault. I don't see any crime at all, in fact.

She also says she's never been treated for an STD, but has, and in this case gives the man a rather nasty one, albeit not a fatal or incurable one.

Assault and battery.

This has happened a number of times, and courts have decided that the man in such situations is basically out of luck. He has to pay child support if the mother decides to have the child. His STD is his own problem, unless possibly it's Hep C, herpes II, or HIV, in which last case he can sue for willful endangerment (in some places).

Show me a court case where a woman has stipulated, or have been found by a jury to have said that "she's never been treated for an STD, but has, and in this case gives the man a rather nasty one, albeit not a fatal or incurable one", and the court has held that no crime was committed.

As for the child support, that's an interesting question all to itself, which I'd love to discuss in another thread. If the mother can't support the child on her own, and don't think the father should be forced to, then who do you think should? The taxpayer? Or should children be taken away from parent(s) who can't support them? Interesting questions, but for another thread, no?

What if the woman dies, and the woman's parents are awarded custody of the child. Then should the father owe child support?

Now, isn't all this rather a double standard? How much should people who make passionate promises be held to keeping them? Always? As a civil matter? As a criminal matter? Only if physical harm is done? Only if the "victim" is female?

A broken promise is a civil matter (EDIT: correction, it's a breach of contract matter, which is generally different from a civil tort). Fraud is a criminal matter. The difference between a broken promise and fraud is whether the lie is about the future or the present.

Granted, in the case of the woman not taking the pill there is fraud, but there is no direct harm, except upon the woman herself. Maybe you could come up with a crime which has been committed, but I can't think of one. It's not assault or battery.

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