Jayjg coming back, How soon after the AOIA Arbcomm case's dismissal will he reappear? Options

[Heat]

1 minute?
1 day?
1 week?
1 month?

[Jonny Cache]

Er, you're assuming he ever left?

Jonny (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

[blissyu2]

I think Heat means how long until the username Jayjg will be used on Wikipedia again.

[The Joy]

If I were him, I wouldn't come back under Jayjg at all.

[Somey]

Well, if we're starting a pool, I'll go with 11:37 PM (UTC) on Oct. 28th.

Are there any other outstanding issues that might prevent Jayjg's triumphal return? And would this be an Edward IV or maybe even a Douglas MacArthur-like return, or more of a Sideshow Bob or Batman-style-villain sort of affair? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unsure.gif)

[Jonny Cache]

'In the House of Elrond, and it is ten o'clock in the morning [MEST],' said a voice. 'It is the morning of October the twenty-fourth, if you want to know.'

I read it in the moon-letters …

Jonny (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

This post has been edited by Jonny Cache:

[LamontStormstar]

Well, if we're starting a pool, I'll go with 11:37 PM (UTC) on Oct. 28th.

How long will the pool stay open and will will The Pool be Closed?

[SenseMaker]

Isn't this Jayjg?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contr...._Hicks_The_III

I think it is clearly Jayjg. My hunch is that he has at least one other recently active Wikipedia account. I haven't yet bothered to look for it.

This post has been edited by SenseMaker:

[Somey]

How long will the pool stay open and will will The Pool be Closed?

Presumably it has to close pretty soon, because we can't keep paying the lifeguard. Also, Heat seems to be suggesting that Jayjg's return is imminent, seeing as how the "Allegations of [insert country here] Apartheid" Arbcom case has now been closed/dismissed in Jayjg's favor.

Whether or not he comes back, it's 100 percent clear that they're circling the wagons, and it's difficult to understand why... It looks for all the world like they're starting a crackdown on people who "cause trouble" by espousing non-traditional or unorthodox views on controversial subjects, and it's mostly for the benefit of a small handful of long-term admins who have recently done little other than complain and stomp off in a huff when they don't get their way.

You know what I think? I think the admins who have been around a long time, and who are doing most of the griping, worked their way up back in the "good old days" when Wikipedia really wasn't that big, or that big a deal. They can't handle the kind of pressure and complexity that Wikipedia presents now, but they seem to think they have to try, because the site essentially belongs to them. That includes Jimbo, as this latest travesty seems to indicate... Meanwhile, the newer admins are more realistic, more hardened to the realities of running what amounts to a "megasite," and are better at keeping their shit together - they can take things less personally and less seriously, because they don't have a lot of reputational emo-baggage to lug around.

That's just my opinion of course, based on vague impressions and general observation, yada yada yada.

[Somey]

Isn't this Jayjg?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contr...._Hicks_The_III

I think it is clearly Jayjg. My hunch is that he has at least one other recently active Wikipedia account. I haven't yet bothered to look for it.

I guess it might as well be Jayjg, given the similar POV and failure to edit articles about anything outside of that overall topic area... Same sort of curt, imperious tone, too, which isn't typical of a new user. But one of the problems with curt + imperious is that there are so many people on Wikipedia like that, in addition to the fact that lots of people share that same overall agenda, it's hard to make the kind of distinctions that would serve to identify a Jayjg amongst the masses of similar types... In this particular case there are more typos and spelling mistakes, too.

Of course, the typos and spelling mistakes might all be part of the conspiracy! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ohmy.gif)

[Herschelkrustofsky]

It must be tremendously irksome to SV and, hypothetically, Jayjg, to be editing with socks and suddenly have that familiar urge to ban someone, lock a page, or oversight something, and be powerless to do so.

[everyking]

It must be tremendously irksome to SV and, hypothetically, Jayjg, to be editing with socks and suddenly have that familiar urge to ban someone, lock a page, or oversight something, and be powerless to do so.

It both amuses and confuses me to think that they have now abandoned their real accounts and are using socks. They still have the essential support at the top to keep going--maybe they think that support is wavering, but I don't see much sign of it. They will, as you note, find socks to be frustratingly ineffective and powerless, and people will probably detect the socks anyway. As long as they are up to no good, the pressure will remain, sock or not, and if they just cleaned up their acts on their main accounts, most people would be willing to forgive. I really don't understand it.

[Aloft]

suddenly have that familiar urge to ban someone, lock a page, or oversight something, and be powerless to do so.

He can still checkuser and oversight and we would never know since the logs are private. Crum375 and Musical "ElinorD" Linguist are only too happy to carry out any administrative functions on their behalf.

It both amuses and confuses me to think that they have now abandoned their real accounts and are using socks. They still have the essential support at the top to keep going

They are playing the victims. They can now moan to their friends in private about how Wikipedia isn't safe for them anymore, and how someone should please do something so that they can come back. They want protection to come down from the very top, and it's already starting.

[blissyu2]

If we take the MMORPG model (or MUD, as its the same thing but without the graphics), if you do something bad on an MMORPG (or MUD) you normally get something done to you, like noshout or notalk or even a term in the prison or some such. You might lose some equipment or experience points or even a whole level. But much worse than that is the idea that you might have your account DELETED. That is so bad because then all of those months, or even years, that you've put in to the account, all of the levels, all of the practise, all of the good equipment, everything is gone.

Being banned actually isn't as bad as being DELETED. Being banned means that all that you need to do is to get yourself another ISP or use someone else's computer and hey presto there you are again. Indeed, if you are on a big ISP they can't really ban you and at worst will make it bans for new accounts only.

And of course being banned just encourages you to come back, to hack, and to do much more mischief than before. If you don't have that year-long account with all of the stuff to be threatened with deleting, then why do you care? Bans are nothing - deletion is big time.

So SlimVirgin and Jayjg are forced to use sock puppets, which in effect means that their accounts are deleted. All of that time that they spent getting up to admin level, getting oversight powers, getting in to the cabal, and having all of the weight to throw around is gone. Sure, so they can quickly get the equipment back and they know where to look, but its never going to be the same. Being banned is less inconvenient than that.

If you think that it is easy for them to use sock puppets then you're wrong I think. Its easy enough once you're banned already to just use socks because then you don't care all that much (although it is awful if you use one genuinely editing for months and then get banned again) but if you're not banned and your account is effectively deleted then it is big time bad.

So my bet is that both of them desire to use their main accounts again, and will try their best to do it.

[LamontStormstar]

Meanwhile, the newer admins are more realistic, more hardened to the realities of running what amounts to a "megasite," and are better at keeping their shit together - they can take things less personally and less seriously, because they don't have a lot of reputational emo-baggage to lug around.

I don't just mean Ryulong here--Every so often there's a new admin who's basically insane. They're all cabal-crazy, banning people who criticize wikipedia. They'll just pop up out of the shadows causing trouble.

Aside from that, Wikipedia has always had and still has people that treat the site like they own it in edit warring, reverting, and deleting content. That's admins and editors.

[jorge]

Isn't this Jayjg?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contr...._Hicks_The_III

I think it is clearly Jayjg. My hunch is that he has at least one other recently active Wikipedia account. I haven't yet bothered to look for it.

It is him.

[Jonny Cache]

If we take the MMORPG model (or MUD, as its the same thing but without the graphics), if you do something bad on an MMORPG (or MUD) you normally get something done to you, like noshout or notalk or even a term in the prison or some such. You might lose some equipment or experience points or even a whole level. But much worse than that is the idea that you might have your account DELETED. That is so bad because then all of those months, or even years, that you've put in to the account, all of the levels, all of the practise, all of the good equipment, everything is gone.

Being banned actually isn't as bad as being DELETED. Being banned means that all that you need to do is to get yourself another ISP or use someone else's computer and hey presto there you are again. Indeed, if you are on a big ISP they can't really ban you and at worst will make it bans for new accounts only.

And of course being banned just encourages you to come back, to hack, and to do much more mischief than before. If you don't have that year-long account with all of the stuff to be threatened with deleting, then why do you care? Bans are nothing - deletion is big time.

So SlimVirgin and Jayjg are forced to use sock puppets, which in effect means that their accounts are deleted. All of that time that they spent getting up to admin level, getting oversight powers, getting in to the cabal, and having all of the weight to throw around is gone. Sure, so they can quickly get the equipment back and they know where to look, but its never going to be the same. Being banned is less inconvenient than that.

If you think that it is easy for them to use sock puppets then you're wrong I think. Its easy enough once you're banned already to just use socks because then you don't care all that much (although it is awful if you use one genuinely editing for months and then get banned again) but if you're not banned and your account is effectively deleted then it is big time bad.

So my bet is that both of them desire to use their main accounts again, and will try their best to do it.

Bliss, I still remember the first time that I found myself being screamed at by some Wikipedia Administrator who was acting like a total 2-year old throwing a tantrum, utterly incapable of being consoled by rational discussion — so I went and looked up his Tribs and found out that he had just over 1000 edits total with hardly any in the mainspace, less than a tithe of what I had done at the time.

I'm sure that long-term terminal cases like SlimVirgin and Jayjg can hold their whate'er for the month or two that it will take Jimbo to slip em all their powers back, incrementally or excrementally, on the sly.

A couple of other things whose significance we ought to recognize:

• The SlimVirgin account started as sockpuppet — the Sockpupet that Xploded — apparently one with the very sort of viral mutation that allowed it to thrive in the Wikipedia φrecosystem.
• There is some reason to suspect that the Jayjg account was always an alternate account — created to serve as the Hired Gun, Junker Dog, or Worse Cop Façade — of a more established administrafer.

Jonny (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

This post has been edited by Jonny Cache:

[Jonny Cache]

Isn't this Jayjg?

Special:Contributions/Mr. Hicks The III

I think it is clearly Jayjg. My hunch is that he has at least one other recently active Wikipedia account. I haven't yet bothered to look for it.

Here is the Interiot Act for Mr. Hicks The III.

I notice an early appearance in the AfD for something called Pallywood.

I have a feeling that I'm going to be sorry I asked this, but could those Reviewers with their φingers on the political pulse of Wikipornia explain to all of us less political types what all this φuss and φuror about Pallywood is about?

Jonny (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

This post has been edited by Jonny Cache:

[LamontStormstar]

Isn't this Jayjg?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contr...._Hicks_The_III

I think it is clearly Jayjg. My hunch is that he has at least one other recently active Wikipedia account. I haven't yet bothered to look for it.

It is him.

While templating his userpage as a Jayjg sock would be a good idea. It would be even better to go and have the account get indef blocked for some reason. Then run a checkuser on the account vs. Jayjg (I believe checkuser still lasts 3 months--anyone know?) and get Jayjg banned by association with the account and poof Jayjg banned!

[blissyu2]

Bliss, I still remember the first time that I found myself being screamed at by some Wikipedia Administrator who was acting like a total 2-year old throwing a tantrum, utterly incapable of being consoled by rational discussion — so I went and looked up his Tribs and found out that he had just over 1000 edits total with hardly any in the mainspace, less than a tithe of what I had done at the time.

I'm sure that long-term terminal cases like SlimVirgin and Jayjg can hold their whate'er for the month or two that it will take Jimbo to slip em all their powers back, incrementally or excrementally, on the sly.

A couple of other things whose significance we ought to recognize:

• The SlimVirgin account started as sockpuppet — the Sockpupet that Xploded — apparently one with the very sort of viral mutation that allowed it to thrive in the Wikipedia φrecosystem.
• There is some reason to suspect that the Jayjg account was always an alternate account — created to serve as the Hired Gun, Junker Dog, or Worse Cop Façade — of a more established administrafer.

Jonny (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

Good point there. SlimVirgin knew far too much for that to be her first account, similarly with Jayjg. Unless of course we believe that they were lurkers for a long time first. Of course, early edits have been oversighted for both so it is hard to be sure.

But at the same time, they worked hard to get all of the priveleges. They would lose them, or at least raise a lot of suspicion, if they were to go with another account permanently.