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> Arbcom follies, Arbcom is totally blown away by the leaker
chrisoff
post Thu 28th July 2011, 8:18pm
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How can arbcom be so totally in outer space regarding the leaker. Their answer are pathetic

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_tal...ity_Speculation


Are they really as dumb and inadequate as they come across? Even the super techie ones? And these are the people deciding the fate of wikipedia and its editors?

Giano, my hero! Dear clear sighted one!
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No one of consequence
post Thu 28th July 2011, 9:14pm
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QUOTE(chrisoff @ Thu 28th July 2011, 8:18pm) *

Giano, my hero! Dear clear sighted one!

In this case Giano is pursuing what is probably the least likely explanation, and is ignoring several more plausible explanations. Security for the mailing list was just bad, and anyone who (a) understood computer security and (b) knew how the Mailman software worked would have known this. The problem is that the people who did know this (a couple of Arbs, possibly, and most of the developers) didn't bother to fix it until after the big breach. Which is pretty much human nature, unfortunately.

And it is entirely plausible that the devs were warned, and they just decided that bots and widgets and new tools for fixing capitalization errors were more important.
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chrisoff
post Thu 28th July 2011, 9:34pm
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QUOTE

In this case Giano is pursuing what is probably the least likely explanation, and is ignoring several more plausible explanations. Security for the mailing list was just bad, and anyone who (a) understood computer security and (b) knew how the Mailman software worked would have known this. The problem is that the people who did know this (a couple of Arbs, possibly, and most of the developers) didn't bother to fix it until after the big breach. Which is pretty much human nature, unfortunately.

And it is entirely plausible that the devs were warned, and they just decided that bots and widgets and new tools for fixing capitalization errors were more important.


I don't buy it. There's at least one arb that acts very techie on other sites, is a checkuser and such, and they NEVER worried about email security of "personal, sensitive" info that arbs, those supposedly trustworthy beings, happily gossip about among themselves? Giano is on the right track. Tabloid material.
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thekohser
post Thu 28th July 2011, 9:35pm
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QUOTE(chrisoff @ Thu 28th July 2011, 4:18pm) *

How can arbcom be so totally in outer space regarding the leaker. Their answer are pathetic

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_tal...ity_Speculation


Are they really as dumb and inadequate as they come across? Even the super techie ones? And these are the people deciding the fate of wikipedia and its editors?

Giano, my hero! Dear clear sighted one!


That was the most delightful reading of the past week. Thanks, Chrisoff!
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InkBlot
post Thu 28th July 2011, 10:39pm
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QUOTE(chrisoff @ Thu 28th July 2011, 4:34pm) *

QUOTE

In this case Giano is pursuing what is probably the least likely explanation, and is ignoring several more plausible explanations. Security for the mailing list was just bad, and anyone who (a) understood computer security and (b) knew how the Mailman software worked would have known this. The problem is that the people who did know this (a couple of Arbs, possibly, and most of the developers) didn't bother to fix it until after the big breach. Which is pretty much human nature, unfortunately.

And it is entirely plausible that the devs were warned, and they just decided that bots and widgets and new tools for fixing capitalization errors were more important.


I don't buy it. There's at least one arb that acts very techie on other sites, is a checkuser and such, and they NEVER worried about email security of "personal, sensitive" info that arbs, those supposedly trustworthy beings, happily gossip about among themselves? Giano is on the right track. Tabloid material.


They, like many IT professionals, fall into the trap of thinking 'security through obscurity' is...well, actually secure. It's not. The old setup was weak and horribly insecure, but they must have figured if no one could see how flimsy the setup was they wouldn't know where to poke holes in it.

Giano just has to see ArbCom as villians actively plotting against him. It's the only way he can explain all the poop which has been dumped on his head over the years without admitting some of it, any of it, might just possibly have been brought on by his own self. Maybe I'm naive, but I've always lived closer to the adage: "Never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity."
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SpiderAndWeb
post Thu 28th July 2011, 11:28pm
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QUOTE(InkBlot @ Thu 28th July 2011, 10:39pm) *

QUOTE(chrisoff @ Thu 28th July 2011, 4:34pm) *

QUOTE

In this case Giano is pursuing what is probably the least likely explanation, and is ignoring several more plausible explanations. Security for the mailing list was just bad, and anyone who (a) understood computer security and (b) knew how the Mailman software worked would have known this. The problem is that the people who did know this (a couple of Arbs, possibly, and most of the developers) didn't bother to fix it until after the big breach. Which is pretty much human nature, unfortunately.

And it is entirely plausible that the devs were warned, and they just decided that bots and widgets and new tools for fixing capitalization errors were more important.


I don't buy it. There's at least one arb that acts very techie on other sites, is a checkuser and such, and they NEVER worried about email security of "personal, sensitive" info that arbs, those supposedly trustworthy beings, happily gossip about among themselves? Giano is on the right track. Tabloid material.


They, like many IT professionals, fall into the trap of thinking 'security through obscurity' is...well, actually secure. It's not. The old setup was weak and horribly insecure, but they must have figured if no one could see how flimsy the setup was they wouldn't know where to poke holes in it.

Giano just has to see ArbCom as villians actively plotting against him. It's the only way he can explain all the poop which has been dumped on his head over the years without admitting some of it, any of it, might just possibly have been brought on by his own self. Maybe I'm naive, but I've always lived closer to the adage: "Never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity."


Frankly, certain members of ArbCom do plot against him, as can be seen in e.g. the leaked emails about the Arbcom wiki "hack," and his posting of the !! sockpuppetry evidence.

This post has been edited by SpiderAndWeb: Thu 28th July 2011, 11:28pm
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A Horse With No Name
post Fri 29th July 2011, 1:27am
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QUOTE(chrisoff @ Thu 28th July 2011, 4:18pm) *

Are they really as dumb and inadequate as they come across?


Put it this way - if they had brains, would they be wasting their time hiding behind pseudonyms on a make-believe Sanhedrin? ermm.gif
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Sololol
post Fri 29th July 2011, 6:12am
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QUOTE(No one of consequence @ Thu 28th July 2011, 5:14pm) *

QUOTE(chrisoff @ Thu 28th July 2011, 8:18pm) *

Giano, my hero! Dear clear sighted one!

In this case Giano is pursuing what is probably the least likely explanation, and is ignoring several more plausible explanations. Security for the mailing list was just bad, and anyone who (a) understood computer security and (b) knew how the Mailman software worked would have known this. The problem is that the people who did know this (a couple of Arbs, possibly, and most of the developers) didn't bother to fix it until after the big breach. Which is pretty much human nature, unfortunately.

And it is entirely plausible that the devs were warned, and they just decided that bots and widgets and new tools for fixing capitalization errors were more important.

I don't think Giano is off-base in thinking it's an inside job versus hacking. It just doesn't matter. And they'd never tell even if they knew: the leaker would say they were hacked (in all honesty or just whipping out the victim card) and we know how that goes. Tune in next leak to find out.
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Vigilant
post Fri 29th July 2011, 6:23am
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QUOTE(Sololol @ Fri 29th July 2011, 6:12am) *

QUOTE(No one of consequence @ Thu 28th July 2011, 5:14pm) *

QUOTE(chrisoff @ Thu 28th July 2011, 8:18pm) *

Giano, my hero! Dear clear sighted one!

In this case Giano is pursuing what is probably the least likely explanation, and is ignoring several more plausible explanations. Security for the mailing list was just bad, and anyone who (a) understood computer security and (b) knew how the Mailman software worked would have known this. The problem is that the people who did know this (a couple of Arbs, possibly, and most of the developers) didn't bother to fix it until after the big breach. Which is pretty much human nature, unfortunately.

And it is entirely plausible that the devs were warned, and they just decided that bots and widgets and new tools for fixing capitalization errors were more important.

I don't think Giano is off-base in thinking it's an inside job versus hacking. It just doesn't matter. And they'd never tell even if they knew: the leaker would say they were hacked (in all honesty or just whipping out the victim card) and we know how that goes. Tune in next leak to find out.


The easiest way to do this would be to send a phishing email to each and every arb. Anyone with unpatched/not using email anti-virus gets their machine rooted. Search their drives for what you want. download the entire archive from the rooted machine.

Provide requested searches while letting arbcom thrash about wondering who the traitor is.
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Sololol
post Fri 29th July 2011, 6:44am
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QUOTE(Vigilant @ Fri 29th July 2011, 2:23am) *

The easiest way to do this would be to send a phishing email to each and every arb. Anyone with unpatched/not using email anti-virus gets their machine rooted. Search their drives for what you want. download the entire archive from the rooted machine.

Provide requested searches while letting arbcom thrash about wondering who the traitor is.

I have no idea how you'd do any of that. Maybe it's really simple. But it seems simpler to imagine someone with any of the numerous possible motivations (revenge/boredom/reform/Malice offered them a delicious sandwich) and sending it out. Something along the lines of what's happened three known times before and God knows how many other times. Again, it doesn't really matter since they can't stop either from happening again, just fun to speculate.
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gomi
post Fri 29th July 2011, 6:52am
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QUOTE(Sololol @ Thu 28th July 2011, 11:44pm) *
QUOTE(Vigilant @ Fri 29th July 2011, 2:23am) *
The easiest way to do this would be to send a phishing email to each and every arb.
I have no idea how you'd do any of that. Maybe it's really simple.

"The attached [Word document|PDF File|Link|whatever] contains incontrovertible proof that your fellow Arbitrator [X] has violated Wikipedia's trust." That'd get every one of 'em. Fuckin' post-apocalyptic warlord idiots.
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Casliber
post Fri 29th July 2011, 10:56am
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QUOTE(gomi @ Fri 29th July 2011, 4:52pm) *

QUOTE(Sololol @ Thu 28th July 2011, 11:44pm) *
QUOTE(Vigilant @ Fri 29th July 2011, 2:23am) *
The easiest way to do this would be to send a phishing email to each and every arb.
I have no idea how you'd do any of that. Maybe it's really simple.

"The attached [Word document|PDF File|Link|whatever] contains incontrovertible proof that your fellow Arbitrator [X] has violated Wikipedia's trust." That'd get every one of 'em. Fuckin' post-apocalyptic warlord idiots.


Well, I've seen this now so I for one won't be opening it biggrin.gif
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Sololol
post Fri 29th July 2011, 3:45pm
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QUOTE(Casliber @ Fri 29th July 2011, 6:56am) *

QUOTE(gomi @ Fri 29th July 2011, 4:52pm) *

QUOTE(Sololol @ Thu 28th July 2011, 11:44pm) *
QUOTE(Vigilant @ Fri 29th July 2011, 2:23am) *
The easiest way to do this would be to send a phishing email to each and every arb.
I have no idea how you'd do any of that. Maybe it's really simple.

"The attached [Word document|PDF File|Link|whatever] contains incontrovertible proof that your fellow Arbitrator [X] has violated Wikipedia's trust." That'd get every one of 'em. Fuckin' post-apocalyptic warlord idiots.


Well, I've seen this now so I for one won't be opening it biggrin.gif

Damn! Casliber will need a personalized message now. What if it were Compressed Unicorn PDF and promised a real live unicorn if you opened it?
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Vigilant
post Fri 29th July 2011, 4:15pm
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QUOTE(Sololol @ Fri 29th July 2011, 6:44am) *

QUOTE(Vigilant @ Fri 29th July 2011, 2:23am) *

The easiest way to do this would be to send a phishing email to each and every arb. Anyone with unpatched/not using email anti-virus gets their machine rooted. Search their drives for what you want. download the entire archive from the rooted machine.

Provide requested searches while letting arbcom thrash about wondering who the traitor is.

I have no idea how you'd do any of that. Maybe it's really simple. But it seems simpler to imagine someone with any of the numerous possible motivations (revenge/boredom/reform/Malice offered them a delicious sandwich) and sending it out. Something along the lines of what's happened three known times before and God knows how many other times. Again, it doesn't really matter since they can't stop either from happening again, just fun to speculate.


I think if it were a current or farmer arb with a bad case of "FUCK YOU", they'd have a bunch of things they'd want to get out there. Things that bothered them personally.

This situation with the greatest hits parade is more like someone who has a secret and is enjoying trickling it out.

Now, Malice, where are my Merkey emails?
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Ottava
post Fri 29th July 2011, 4:16pm
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I'm of the believe that they are all the leaker, and that this whole thing was started because they all wanted to make the knowledge public while still having plausible deniability.

smile.gif

After all, have any of the leaks really had anything incriminating? There is no "lets find out a way to screw this person" type of conspiracy as found in the Easter European emails. Most of them are debates between different people and show very little "collusion" or anything that wasn't taking place in public.

Of course, a few people are seen as two-faced, or shown to hide how they really feel. But that isn't anything new or ground breaking.
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SpiderAndWeb
post Fri 29th July 2011, 4:57pm
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QUOTE(Ottava @ Fri 29th July 2011, 4:16pm) *

I'm of the believe that they are all the leaker, and that this whole thing was started because they all wanted to make the knowledge public while still having plausible deniability.

smile.gif


A Orient Express-style conspiracy? I love it smile.gif
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Ottava
post Fri 29th July 2011, 5:18pm
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QUOTE(SpiderAndWeb @ Fri 29th July 2011, 12:57pm) *

QUOTE(Ottava @ Fri 29th July 2011, 4:16pm) *

I'm of the believe that they are all the leaker, and that this whole thing was started because they all wanted to make the knowledge public while still having plausible deniability.

smile.gif


A Orient Express-style conspiracy? I love it smile.gif



Wow, that should have read "I'm of the believers that".

Anyway, yes. I was thinking more of the third ending of Clue because that is far more sillier with all the running around and such. A Horse with No Name would probably enjoy both references as pertinent, unless he is still morning the death of the real Horse with No Name.
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SpiderAndWeb
post Fri 29th July 2011, 5:24pm
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QUOTE(Ottava @ Fri 29th July 2011, 5:18pm) *

QUOTE(SpiderAndWeb @ Fri 29th July 2011, 12:57pm) *

QUOTE(Ottava @ Fri 29th July 2011, 4:16pm) *

I'm of the believe that they are all the leaker, and that this whole thing was started because they all wanted to make the knowledge public while still having plausible deniability.

smile.gif


A Orient Express-style conspiracy? I love it smile.gif



Wow, that should have read "I'm of the believers that".

Anyway, yes. I was thinking more of the third ending of Clue because that is far more sillier with all the running around and such. A Horse with No Name would probably enjoy both references as pertinent, unless he is still morning the death of the real Horse with No Name.


With communism hacking just a red herring, I assume.

This post has been edited by SpiderAndWeb: Fri 29th July 2011, 5:28pm
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chrisoff
post Fri 29th July 2011, 6:37pm
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QUOTE(Ottava @ Fri 29th July 2011, 12:16pm) *

After all, have any of the leaks really had anything incriminating? There is no "lets find out a way to screw this person" type of conspiracy as found in the Easter European emails. Most of them are debates between different people and show very little "collusion" or anything that wasn't taking place in public.

Of course, a few people are seen as two-faced, or shown to hide how they really feel. But that isn't anything new or ground breaking.

Hummmmm


Does show that Cas Liber acts as the psychiatric consultant for the group! Let's ask Cas and see what the "mechanism" is, whether the guy is really suicidal!

"The thing that strikes me about RH&E is the knee-jerk "I'm too ill/I'm suicidal" response whenever challenged. What's all that about, Cas? What's the mechanism? Just deflection?"

Cas: "Oh, the common theme in all his correspondence is /his/ hard work, /his/ health i.e. "I'm having a hard time and you don't care". There is not /any/ consideration of the other side at all, which is interesting. it illustrates a fairly profound lack of empathy of knowing or caring about his obligations (role of admin), or problem it puts us in (threat of suicide and letting him edit). Admittedly this gets worse when a person is stressed (even reasonable folks can lose empathy" smile.gif


Cas give us a quickie mental check on the arbs. Could there possibly be a profound lack of empathy in all this casual gossip and speculation by the arbs in these leaked emails?


Draft Giano for arbcom!
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powercorrupts
post Fri 29th July 2011, 11:02pm
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I found Casliber's comment totally unconvincing in terms of being from a qualified psychiatrist. The more I read it the less convincing it is, in fact.

Asking Casliber this kind of question is ridiculous. They should have brought in (or even actually employ for these occasions) qualified people - including the police on occasions it could be argued - but instead they are querying their anonymous selves, and constantly bargaining with misfits to attempt to maintain the appearance of credibility.

What we are seeing is that arbcom are consistently what most normal people would call 'unprofessional'. I'm wondering if it's actually professionalism which these level of Wikipedians have a kind of fear or hatred of. There could even be a general contempt for it across Wikipedia.

I personally think people on WR are making a mistake in searching for Murdochian scandals in these leaks - they are not fully private emails, which of course must occur frequently enough - and are even alluded to on occasion. These kind of incidences could be as bad as it gets. Surely they are bad enough, despite what people here already know about arbcom - that they are simply the kind of venal, ambitious and self-interested people who climb upwards (to whatever degree) in the hazy world of Wikimedia Enterprises.

This post has been edited by powercorrupts: Fri 29th July 2011, 11:04pm
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