Google to donate $2M to WMF, .. apparently Options

[Alison]

I just got the news from Jimbo's FailBook feed ....

EDIT: http://twitter.com/jimmy_wales/status/9215187878 - I have the sneaking suspicion he jumped the gun on this one and blabbed before WMF could get a formal statement out. Oops!

I guess the Goog <-> Wiki linkage has now been truly formalized. I wonder how WMF is going to reciprocate on this deal. Either way, I guess this really seals WP's fate with Daniel now that they've officially joined with the Great Satan™

[MZMcBride]

Sue Gardner's announcement about this on foundation-l is available here.

So much for Knol?

[anthony]

I wonder how WMF is going to reciprocate on this deal.

Well, they just technically blocked hotloading of Wikipedia by everyone except for Google's Google Translate service, though I'm sure it was just a coincidence (Google has gotten special treatment by the WMF for quite a long time).

This post has been edited by anthony: Wed 17th February 2010, 4:18am

[Daniel Brandt]

Evil Triangle

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Get the buzz?

[Messedrocker]

This is hardly the first collusion between Google and Wikipedia. The two have been in a sort of symbiosis for years now.

[anthony]

Evil Triangle [...]

Damn, that's pretty scary when you put it that way.

I'm way too dependent on Google right now. Search, email, even my cell phone. Ugh, I hope you're wrong.

[MBisanz]

Evil Triangle [...]

Damn, that's pretty scary when you put it that way.

I'm way too dependent on Google right now. Search, email, even my cell phone. Ugh, I hope you're wrong.

I use Yahoo email, an LG cell phone, Firefox, and AIM, but the peer pressure to convert to GMail, Android, Chrome, and Gchat is particularly intense. I suspect within six months I'll be a Google-only customer simply because of the pervasive nature of their technology.

[EricBarbour]

I use Yahoo email, an LG cell phone, Firefox, and AIM, but the peer pressure to convert to GMail, Android, Chrome, and Gchat is particularly intense. I suspect within six months I'll be a Google-only customer simply because of the pervasive nature of their technology.

There are other search engines, ya know. Not all of them are meta-engines or otherwise dependent on Google.

http://www.alltheweb.com/
http://www.altavista.com/
http://www.gigablast.com/
Amazon's A9
http://www.wisenut.com/
And of course, from the evil empire, Bing.

And there are many others, too many to list here.

Android is not the only good OS for smartphones, either. You could get an iPhone, or a Nokia N900, or a Palm phone running WebOS.

You only think Google is "pervasive". Stop listening to your friends, they might not be very sensible (or well informed).

[dogbiscuit]

I use Yahoo email, an LG cell phone, Firefox, and AIM, but the peer pressure to convert to GMail, Android, Chrome, and Gchat is particularly intense. I suspect within six months I'll be a Google-only customer simply because of the pervasive nature of their technology.

There are other search engines, ya know. Not all of them are meta-engines or otherwise dependent on Google.

http://www.alltheweb.com/
http://www.altavista.com/
http://www.gigablast.com/
Amazon's A9
http://www.wisenut.com/
And of course, from the evil empire, Bing.

And there are many others, too many to list here.

Android is not the only good OS for smartphones, either. You could get an iPhone, or a Nokia N900, or a Palm phone running WebOS.

You only think Google is "pervasive". Stop listening to your friends, they might not be very sensible (or well informed).

Unfortunately, the world is not a thinking place.

Google is all pervasive in that:

Google is very effective and free.

GMail is very effective and free.

Android shows signs of being very effective.

As yet, Google have not cashed in on their dominance in an evil way - though they have made some goofs. So the rational person in the street has every reason to go with them.

They are, however, currently pissing off 3 or 4 millionf Virgin Media customers who have transferred their old email platform (which was not entirely reliable) to GoogleMail. My gripe was blocking of common file types, so you can't email a zip or exe within another zip file for example. They are deciding what is good for us.

The question is whether their cash mountain and their dominance will destroy the opposition and allow the natural arrogance of a monopoly to lead them into doing evil things. There are signs that that is happening with their chat thing where they goofed about releasing friends lists. They haven't yet reached the stage where they make a mistake like that and then try and argue that it was the right thing to do. Give it another year.

[RDH(Ghost In The Machine)]

Unfortunately, the world is not a thinking place.

Google is all pervasive in that:

Google is very effective and free.

GMail is very effective and free.

Android shows signs of being very effective.

As yet, Google have not cashed in on their dominance in an evil way - though they have made some goofs. So the rational person in the street has every reason to go with them.

They are, however, currently pissing off 3 or 4 millionf Virgin Media customers who have transferred their old email platform (which was not entirely reliable) to GoogleMail. My gripe was blocking of common file types, so you can't email a zip or exe within another zip file for example. They are deciding what is good for us.

The question is whether their cash mountain and their dominance will destroy the opposition and allow the natural arrogance of a monopoly to lead them into doing evil things. There are signs that that is happening with their chat thing where they goofed about releasing friends lists. They haven't yet reached the stage where they make a mistake like that and then try and argue that it was the right thing to do. Give it another year.

They also goofed in backing down and kowtowing to the butchers and bankers of Beijing.

I agree, though I'm more certain about the corrupting influence of power and of wealth.
I believe the Goog will become evil...if it is not already. But I will probably, personally continue to use its services because, as you state, they are good, free and Goog is less evil than the alternatives. I seriously doubt they will be allowed to have a monopoly...at least I hope not. So long as we are allowed to freely chose our evil, corporate, internet overlords the situation should not be too unpleasant.

BTW, if you want to sent .zip or .exe files in Gmail, use Rar.
For some reason it does not block .rar's, which may help explain why that old compression format is undergoing a renaissance in popularity among certain sectors.

[thekohser]

This calls for an Anonymous-like counterforce. I hereby call on all of you to take 15 minutes and do the following.

Call 650-253-0000.

Press "8" to dial by surname. Wait for the Google switchboard to connect you to the dial-by-name system.

Enter the first few letters of the last name of your 1st grade teacher. Pick one of the Google employees whose name comes up.

Leave them a voicemail message, giving your real name, a number where you can be reached, and say that you have important information about the "recent $2 million deal". Sound like you're busy and that you expect a call back. Don't sound meek and bashful.

If you receive a call back, read them your favorite from the 10 reasons not to donate to the Wikimedia Foundation.

( http://tinyurl.com/WMF-myths )

Repeat your calls until you've made your way up through the surname of your 7th grade teacher. Seven calls, seven voicemails. (Nobody at Google actually picks up their phones.)

With enough volume and effort, maybe they'll at least get the point and never do something so stupid again.

Who among you is with me on this, for 15 minutes of your time?

[A Horse With No Name]

This calls for an Anonymous-like counterforce. I hereby call on all of you to take 15 minutes and do the following.

Call 650-253-0000.

Press "8" to dial by surname. Wait for the Google switchboard to connect you to the dial-by-name system.

Enter the first few letters of the last name of your 1st grade teacher. Pick one of the Google employees whose name comes up.

Leave them a voicemail message, giving your real name, a number where you can be reached, and say that you have important information about the "recent $2 million deal". Sound like you're busy and that you expect a call back. Don't sound meek and bashful.

I sort of prefer the Peter Finch approach of opening your window and yelling "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore."

I also liked how Beatrice Straight got on Oscar for being on screen for barely five minutes, but that's another story.

[thekohser]

Sue Gardner's announcement about this on foundation-l is available here.

I wonder what part of "EMBARGOED UNTIL 8:00AM PST, February 17 2009" Sue Gardner doesn't understand?

[dogbiscuit]

Sue Gardner's announcement about this on foundation-l is available here.

I wonder what part of "EMBARGOED UNTIL 8:00AM PST, February 17 2009" Sue Gardner doesn't understand?

What's the problem, it's only a year late. (but way to go Wikipedia, undermining the whole principle of the relationship with the press on these matters).

[thekohser]

Sue Gardner's announcement about this on foundation-l is available here.

I wonder what part of "EMBARGOED UNTIL 8:00AM PST, February 17 2009" Sue Gardner doesn't understand?

What's the problem, it's only a year late. (but way to go Wikipedia, undermining the whole principle of the relationship with the press on these matters).

Wow, I didn't even notice the "2009". What a bunch of $2 million mistakes.

[Herschelkrustofsky]

Evil Triangle

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Get the buzz?

Sort of. It is clear that Google made WP into a force to be reckoned with, instead of an expensive blog for Jimbo. But why? It is clearly a Soapbox for Propaganda (see WP:NOT:NOT!,) but it's a rather sloppy and amateurish one. They could have backed some sort of state-of-the-art propaganda project. I'd like to get Daniel's take on this.

They also goofed in backing down and kowtowing to the butchers and bankers of Beijing.

Yeah, right. Let's see, the Chinese are rejecting globalization and Google, they don't go out and start wars for no reason, and they give actual aid to Third World countries instead of loan-sharking them and scamming them out of their resources. They are clearly a menace to the rest of the world.

[anthony]

http://www.alltheweb.com/
http://www.altavista.com/
http://www.gigablast.com/
Amazon's A9
http://www.wisenut.com/
And of course, from the evil empire, Bing.

I haven't tried any of the others recently, but Bing sucks. They have it installed at work as the default and I find myself typing google into the address bar rather than deal with Bing. If I had more time I'd make some sort of scraper using Brandt's code, but I haven't had the time.

Android is not the only good OS for smartphones, either. You could get an iPhone, or a Nokia N900, or a Palm phone running WebOS.

Android is by far the most open of those three. And really I'm not so concerned about my reliance on Android OS. I'm fairly confident that, as long as you don't use the Google apps on your Android phone, it's relatively simple to take Google out of the equation altogether. On the other hand, I've got my phone contacts syncing to my gmail, my voicemail going through Google voice, my alerts going through Google calendar...

In any case, I think we have at least a couple years before we need to really start fearing the evil triumvirate outlined by Daniel Brandt. When Sarah Palin becomes President in 2012 or 2016, then we need to start shaking in our boots.

[Daniel Brandt]

Sort of. It is clear that Google made WP into a force to be reckoned with, instead of an expensive blog for Jimbo. But why? It is clearly a Soapbox for Propaganda (see WP:NOT:NOT!,) but it's a rather sloppy and amateurish one. They could have backed some sort of state-of-the-art propaganda project. I'd like to get Daniel's take on this.

Well, since you asked...

Get rid of professional journalism, and turn it all into crowd-sourced, lowest common denominator gibberish. Emphasize sports, entertainment, and popular culture. Jack up the rankings on Wikipedia, which passes for an "encyclopedia," and bury independent thought and historical perspective under a forest of one-liner tweets and snippets, spam, advertising, and blog comments. Dumb down the population. The distinction between social ethics and the lessons of history, on the one hand, and contemporary propaganda on the other, becomes obscured. The rich will now have an easier time getting richer. The poor will get poorer, but that's okay because the poor will be too stupid to notice.

This is where it's headed. Whether it's fully conscious, or just tacitly driven by monopoly capitalism, doesn't really matter. The end result is approximately the same. The role of total digital surveillance is not now a crucial part of this trend, but will become more important as the new culture becomes more pervasive. At that point this surveillance will anticipate any potholes on the highway to hell, and steer around them so that they don't impede "progress."

[anthony]

It is clear that Google made WP into a force to be reckoned with, instead of an expensive blog for Jimbo. But why? It is clearly a Soapbox for Propaganda (see WP:NOT:NOT!,) but it's a rather sloppy and amateurish one. They could have backed some sort of state-of-the-art propaganda project.

You're assuming too much good faith. Wikipedia may be sloppy and amateurish about the decisions which are left to the crowd, but they can do a pretty good job of covering things up when something important comes along. And "assume good faith, we were just being incompetent" is a great cover, which the Wikimedia Foundation has used time and time again when they get caught red handed spreading mistruths and covering up facts.

I'd like to get Daniel's take on this.

Me too. Which is the newest connection, or are all the connections just getting stronger? We know the connection between Google and the NSA got much stronger recently. I get the sense that the connection between the WMF and the NSA has been strong even longer - I recall one of the techies bragging on IRC around the time of the birth of Intellipedia how he and Jimbo had to get some sort of high level government clearance before they'd be willing to use the Mediawiki code - don't remember who it was though (and I guess that's CIA rather than NSA, which Brandt would be more knowledgeable than I about how much that distinction matters).

This post has been edited by anthony: Wed 17th February 2010, 4:07pm

[Doc glasgow]

So, Jimbo gets his company jet soon?

This post has been edited by Doc glasgow: Wed 17th February 2010, 5:41pm