Inclusionism is 9/10ths of the problem of WP Options Rating

[taiwopanfob]

Aren't you aware that nearly all the Pokemon content is gone? Deleted by deletionists? Wikipedia was a pretty good resource on Pokemon a year ago, but not anymore. I mourn the death of all that content, but it would be nice if, as a consolation prize, deletionists could cease the jabs about WP being the world's biggest Pokemon encyclopedia and so on.

My memory is not failing, and Doc Glasgow's answer checks out. I clicked in 10 pages of hits and it was solid wikipedia articles all the way down. Each one different and unique. If "nearly all" of it is now gone ... well, I can't help myself but quote a long section of a piece of fiction, of all things:

Gargoyles represent the embarrassing side of the Central Intelligence Corporation. Instead of using laptops, they wear their computers on their bodies, broken up into separate modules that hang on the waist, on the back, on the headset. They serve as human surveillance devices, recording everything that happens around them. Nothing looks stupider, these getups are the modern-day equivalent of the slide-rule scabbard or the calculator pouch on the belt, marking the user as belonging to a class that is at once above and far below human society. They are a boon to Hiro because they embody the worst stereotype of the CIC stringer. They draw all of the attention. The payoff for this self-imposed ostracism is that you can be in the Metaverse all the time, and gather intelligence all the time.

The CIC brass can't stand these guys because they upload staggering quantities of useless information to the database, on the off chance that some of it will eventually be useful. It's like writing down the license number of every car you see on your way to work each morning, just in case one of them will be involved in a hit-and-run accident. Even the CIC database can only hold so much garbage. So, usually, these habitual gargoyles get kicked out of CIC before too long.

Man, how did Stephenson nail it, and nail it 16 years ago?

Anyways, the opposite of inclusionist is not deletionist: there is more than one dimension.

[Milton Roe]

Aren't you aware that nearly all the Pokemon content is gone? Deleted by deletionists? Wikipedia was a pretty good resource on Pokemon a year ago, but not anymore. I mourn the death of all that content, but it would be nice if, as a consolation prize, deletionists could cease the jabs about WP being the world's biggest Pokemon encyclopedia and so on.

I don't know what you guys are complaining about. Wikia is there to siphon/harvet cruft from Wikipedia in just this way. The fanboys exist to create it, the deletionists exist to clean it out, and Wikia exists to make use of it for its proper function: ad platform to make money for Jimbo in the way he kicks himself Wikipedia isn't.

http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/Home

There you are. Nothing wasted. But this stuff is seeded with the labor of people who really did do it (and some of it on Wikipedia) for the good of fandom and not to make Jimbo money. If you're looking for hypocrisy, here it is. But don't complain that this stuff gums up WMF and Wikipedia, and that Jimbo makes money from it, too, when it's siphoned off to Wikia. You can't have it both ways.

Myself, I'm an inclusionist. I think the fact that Jimbo lives off this kind of thing is a little like the Matrix, but real. However, it seems to disturb other people very little so who am I to care? I don't write it.

This post has been edited by Milton Roe: Wed 23rd April 2008, 5:04am

[Somey]

Fine wine is a distillation of grape minus the crap. If you dilute it, there comes a point where it is no longer classified as wine. Take it further still, and it is not classified as anything but water.

As I recall, there's a famous saying along those lines which goes something like this:

"If you add a teaspoon of wine to a barrel of sewage, you get a barrel of sewage. If you add a teaspoon of sewage to a barrel of wine, you get a barrel of sewage."

[everyking]

Aren't you aware that nearly all the Pokemon content is gone? Deleted by deletionists? Wikipedia was a pretty good resource on Pokemon a year ago, but not anymore. I mourn the death of all that content, but it would be nice if, as a consolation prize, deletionists could cease the jabs about WP being the world's biggest Pokemon encyclopedia and so on.

I don't know what you guys are complaining about. Wikia is there to siphon/harvet cruft from Wikipedia in just this way. The fanboys exist to create it, the deletionists exist to clean it out, and Wikia exists to make use of it for its proper function: ad platform to make money for Jimbo in the way he kicks himself Wikipedia isn't.

http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/Home

There you are. Nothing wasted. But this stuff is seeded with the labor of people who really did do it (and some of it on Wikipedia) for the good of fandom and not to make Jimbo money. If you're looking for hypocrisy, here it is. But don't complain that this stuff gums up WMF and Wikipedia, and that Jimbo makes money from it, too, when it's siphoned off to Wikia. You can't have it both ways.

Myself, I'm an inclusionist. I think the fact that Jimbo lives off this kind of thing is a little like the Matrix, but real. However, it seems to disturb other people very little so who am I to care? I don't write it.

I find the "but it's on Wikia now" argument to be like saying, in reference to a deceased individual: "but he's not really gone, he's right there in the ground, and you can go visit him anytime."

Wikia is not Wikipedia. To have a Pokemon Wikia is nice, but it cannot be a substitute for the coverage WP is supposed to provide.

[Somey]

Wikia is not Wikipedia. To have a Pokemon Wikia is nice, but it cannot be a substitute for the coverage WP is supposed to provide.

I don't see why not...?

If anything, it should be a more productive working environment for people who are really, really interested in developing a comprehensive Pokemon-related information resource. In particular, the lack of editorial and administrative interference by non-Pokemon-obsessed Wikipedians (assuming such people exist) should attract Pokemon fans to a more specialized site, run by people more like themselves, who understand their unique needs and problems, not to mention... interests.

So why is Wikipedia still, even after multiple article deletions, a far more comprehensive source of Pokemon information than the somewhat-more-specialized pokemon.wikia.com?

Do you even need an answer?

[JohnA]

So why is Wikipedia still, even after multiple article deletions, a far more comprehensive source of Pokemon information than the somewhat-more-specialized pokemon.wikia.com?

Do you even need an answer?

No.

[Moulton]

"If you add a teaspoon of wine to a barrel of sewage, you get a barrel of sewage. If you add a teaspoon of sewage to a barrel of wine, you get a barrel of sewage."

Perhaps the Web 2.0 Culture needs a Sewage Treatment Plant.

[JohnA]

"If you add a teaspoon of wine to a barrel of sewage, you get a barrel of sewage. If you add a teaspoon of sewage to a barrel of wine, you get a barrel of sewage."

Perhaps the Web 2.0 Culture needs a Sewage Treatment Plant.

I think the problem is, once the sewage is in you'll never get back to wine no matter how much treatment you do.

[dogbiscuit]

"If you add a teaspoon of wine to a barrel of sewage, you get a barrel of sewage. If you add a teaspoon of sewage to a barrel of wine, you get a barrel of sewage."

Perhaps the Web 2.0 Culture needs a Sewage Treatment Plant.

I think the problem is, once the sewage is in you'll never get back to wine no matter how much treatment you do.

You may never have wine, but at least you'd have water that can be drunk over and over again - Jimbo's little, muddy friends would find that much more useful than occasional pronouncements of coolness.

[Moulton]

I'll just point out that in nature, biological waste is processed by micro-organisms in the soil who mostly work in secret in the dead of night. Hence what they produce is called night soil.

[guy]

If anything, it should be a more productive working environment for people who are really, really interested in developing a comprehensive Pokemon-related information resource. In particular, the lack of editorial and administrative interference by non-Pokemon-obsessed Wikipedians (assuming such people exist) should attract Pokemon fans to a more specialized site, run by people more like themselves, who understand their unique needs and problems, not to mention... interests.

Maybe Taxwoman could comment on her pet Wiki, Wipipedia, which I believe is utterly independent of Wikipedia and Wikia.