Printable Version of Topic

Posted by: MaliceAforethought

From jayjg99 at gmail.com Wed Feb 13 16:27:41 2008
From: jayjg99 at gmail.com (jayjg)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 11:27:41 -0500
Subject: [Arbcom-l] DavidShankBone and THF dispute
In-Reply-To: <46DF460C.3060207@comcast.net>
References: <20070827163320.HZDI26699.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@smtp.ntlworld.com>
<46DF460C.3060207@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <6a8d9d700802130827g5d50eb3ck4d4a686cd19d8f28@mail.gmail.com>

On Sep 5, 2007 7:13 PM, Mark Pellegrini <mapellegrini at comcast.net> wrote:
<snip>
> On top of that, Cool Hand Luke (who much like Everyking, has a history
> of enabling problem users -
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Dr_Zen#Statement_by_Raul654
> ) has intervened on his behalf.
<snip>

For the past two weeks Cool Hand Luke has been intervening on Judd
Bagley's behalf.
----------
From jayjg99 at gmail.com Wed Feb 13 16:27:41 2008
From: jayjg99 at gmail.com (jayjg)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 11:27:41 -0500
Subject: [Arbcom-l] DavidShankBone and THF dispute
In-Reply-To: <46DF460C.3060207@comcast.net>
References: <20070827163320.HZDI26699.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@smtp.ntlworld.com>
<46DF460C.3060207@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <6a8d9d700802130827g5d50eb3ck4d4a686cd19d8f28@mail.gmail.com>

On Sep 5, 2007 7:13 PM, Mark Pellegrini <mapellegrini at comcast.net> wrote:
<snip>
> On top of that, Cool Hand Luke (who much like Everyking, has a history
> of enabling problem users -
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Dr_Zen#Statement_by_Raul654
> ) has intervened on his behalf.
<snip>

For the past two weeks Cool Hand Luke has been intervening on Judd
Bagley's behalf.
----------
From kirill.lokshin at gmail.com Wed Feb 13 17:23:00 2008
From: kirill.lokshin at gmail.com (Kirill Lokshin)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:23:00 -0500
Subject: [Arbcom-l] DavidShankBone and THF dispute
In-Reply-To: <021320081714.7540.47B3258C0003E33400001D7422058863600702079D090A04040A9F0E03@comcast.net>
References: <021320081714.7540.47B3258C0003E33400001D7422058863600702079D090A04040A9F0E03@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <3f797b9a0802130923l3247d129s7f0cf65a2747fb1b@mail.gmail.com>

On Feb 13, 2008 12:14 PM, Mark Pellegrini <mapellegrini at comcast.net> wrote:

> CHL is probably the worst admin on this site. We need to do something
> about him.


Has he done anything sanctionable, per se? Or is he just being a nuisance
in general?

In any case, doing anything about him in the immediate future would send the
wrong message.

Kirill
----------
From mapellegrini at comcast.net Thu Feb 14 02:25:58 2008
From: mapellegrini at comcast.net (Mark Pellegrini)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 21:25:58 -0500
Subject: [Arbcom-l] DavidShankBone and THF dispute
In-Reply-To: <3f797b9a0802130923l3247d129s7f0cf65a2747fb1b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <021320081714.7540.47B3258C0003E33400001D7422058863600702079D090A04040A9F0E03@comcast.net>
<3f797b9a0802130923l3247d129s7f0cf65a2747fb1b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47B3A6B6.5030802@comcast.net>

His actions with regard to Dr. Zen were most certainly actionable, in my
opinion. If we had had an administrator's noticeboard in those days, I
would have hauled him in front of it where he would have gotten the
excoriation he deserved.

-Mark



Kirill Lokshin wrote:
> On Feb 13, 2008 12:14 PM, Mark Pellegrini <mapellegrini at comcast.net
> <mailto:mapellegrini at comcast.net>> wrote:
>
> CHL is probably the worst admin on this site. We need to do
> something about him.
-----------
From dmcdevit at cox.net Thu Feb 14 21:21:37 2008
From: dmcdevit at cox.net (Dmcdevit)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 13:21:37 -0800
Subject: [Arbcom-l] DavidShankBone and THF dispute
In-Reply-To: <47B3A6B6.5030802@comcast.net>
References: <021320081714.7540.47B3258C0003E33400001D7422058863600702079D090A04040A9F0E03@comcast.net> <3f797b9a0802130923l3247d129s7f0cf65a2747fb1b@mail.gmail.com>
<47B3A6B6.5030802@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <47B4B0E1.7060306@cox.net>

Never heard of him before, but you might want to take a look at
<http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/OTRS/volunteering#en:User:Cool_Hand_Luke>.

Dominic

Mark Pellegrini wrote:
> His actions with regard to Dr. Zen were most certainly actionable, in my
----------
From dgerard at gmail.com Mon Jun 9 17:09:26 2008
From: dgerard at gmail.com (David Gerard)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 18:09:26 +0100
Subject: [Arbcom-l] David Shankbone's stalker
Message-ID: <fbad4e140806091009o1d55a14cjab622769773da7d5@mail.gmail.com>

Everyone read this?

http://digg.com/security/Stalkers_Haunt_Wikipedia_s_Volunteers

The cases involving David Shankbone are linked to this.


- d.
----------
From dgerard at gmail.com Tue Jun 10 07:47:26 2008
From: dgerard at gmail.com (David Gerard)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 08:47:26 +0100
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Stalking thread on foundation-l
Message-ID: <fbad4e140806100047j6645ef2jaac4d8f70aedb304@mail.gmail.com>

Started as Shankbone, is being turned into BADSITES part MCXVLII,
relevant to current cases. You will probably want to read this.

Starts here, goes on for hundreds of messages:

http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2008-June/043790.html


- d.
-----------
From fredbaud at fairpoint.net Tue Jun 10 09:21:48 2008
From: fredbaud at fairpoint.net (Fred Bauder)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 03:21:48 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Stalking thread on foundation-l
In-Reply-To: <fbad4e140806100047j6645ef2jaac4d8f70aedb304@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fbad4e140806100047j6645ef2jaac4d8f70aedb304@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <52030.66.243.196.131.1213089708.squirrel@webmail.fairpoint.net>

> Started as Shankbone, is being turned into BADSITES part MCXVLII,
> relevant to current cases. You will probably want to read this.
>
> Starts here, goes on for hundreds of messages:
>
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2008-June/043790.html
>
>
> - d.

My only contact with David Shankbone was in the case which involved
Michael Moore pillorying a conservative Wikipedia editor on his website.
He seems to have taken the opposite view at that time. Now the shoe's on
the other foot.

Fred
----------
From paul.wehage at gmail.com Fri Aug 1 12:08:54 2008
From: paul.wehage at gmail.com (Paul Wehage)
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 14:08:54 +0200
Subject: [Arbcom-l] My personal information on a AFD discussion,
in statements made by a WP editor who is stalking me off of WP.
Message-ID: <b236c3fc0808010508jad09972y5d2eab48410eba43@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

My name is Paul Wehage, I run <redact>. We publish classical music. We made a series of
articles about our own composers back in 2006, some who are notable
(Germaine Tailleferre being the most notable of all, probably) and some who
are marginably notable. We were the subject of an Arb-com case involving
the inclusion of women in the List of Opera composers, which ended
inconclusively.

I did not like the way this business ended and started posting on the WR
site as a means of venting, but also as a means of trying to find ways of
working for change outside of the WP system. In the course of that
intereaction, a WP editor who edits under David Shankbone had a run-in with
me concering the WP:COI policy, which I believe is not applied fairly. The
main part of that discussion is available here :
http://wikipediareview.com/index.php?showtopic=17176&st=0&p=90617&#entry90617

This is why my name, my company name, my business partner's name, our IP
address and the location of our offices was splashed by Mr. Shankbone all
over WP user space, both on Mr. Shankbone's personal talk page, the ANI page
and on various other user's talk pages. In this diff, a clear threat that
"lulzy" material would be available on the web
shortly<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:David_Shankbone&diff=prev&oldid=212503009>and
the same day, the user account "The Fieryangel" created the following
page on Encyclopedia dramatica. Several days later, the User: David
Shankbone published a link at an attack blog on his French WP page :
http://fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Utilisateur:David_Shankbone&diff=prev&oldid=29848858
http://wehageboisseau.blogspot.com/ which gives more information about my
personal life, about colleagues unrelated to this business and other
business. On July 20th, Mr. Shankbone made a post on his talk page linking
to an attack article on his personal blog :
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:David_Shankbone&diff=226743610&oldid=226612853which
makes swipes again at me by name, as well as to other WP editors
blog.shankbone.org/2008/07/19/david-shankbone-finally-tells-you-how-to-replicate-his-success.aspx.
And finally, he nominiated my own article on WP (which is probably the
right thing to do, since it's really much more trouble than it's worth at
this point! ), but using the following language to frame the nomination:

Vanity article created by subject. Google shows only [
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=CNe&pwst=1&q=%22Paul+Wehage%22&start=200&sa=N200 unique hits], almost all of which are self-published or casual
> references. Subject appears to have no active music works that are sold on
> Amazon, et al. Certainly no solo works. No evidence that he has ever even
> played a major venue. Three sources are used on the article, one being liner
> notes to some no-longer published record, and the majority being from
> something written by *the subject's boyfriend *and business partner, *Jean-Thierry
> Boisseau.* Paul Wehage and Jean-Thierry Boisseau were the [
> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Jean-Thierry_Boisseau/Proposed_decision&oldid=88487076#Proposed_findings_of_factsubject of an ArbCom in 2006] for
> * self-promoting their business (Musik Fabrik)* and *its roster of
> unnotable performers,* including themselves. Article gets virtually [
> http://stats.grok.se/en/200806/Paul_Wehage no hits in English], and even [
> http://stats.grok.se/fr/200806/Paul_Wehage less in French]* (the subject
> and his partner Jean-Thierry* live in France). Despite the ArbCom, subject
> has continued to self-promote (even [
> http://fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Lagny-sur-Marne&diff=5297530&oldid=5062641adding that
> *he and his boyfriend*] are celebrities in a 20,000 person town) and *his
> "products" in the form of unnotable composers*. Simply put, this article
> has no references nor reliable third-party sources, and there are none
> available. It reads like a resume, and was self-created. Fails all criteria
> established under [[WP:Notability]]. --<font color="#0000C0">David</font>
> '''[[User:David Shankbone|<font color="#0000C0">Shankbone</font>]]''' 20:05,
> 31 July 2008 (UTC)


Now, I realize that you cannot do anything about activities off of WP, but
do I really have to have my personal life splashed all over WP user pages
again? Can you cite a reliable source which says that Jean-Thierry Boisseau
and I are in a relationship? And even if this is true, then what does it
have to do with deleting or keeping the article? Isn't simply saying that
*Mr. Wehage has direct ties with the author of the book in question*, rather
than asking *who sleeps on which side of the bed? *

At this point, I would like to ask you to close this deletion, delete the
article and then courtesy delete this discussion whose only purpose is cause
me further embarrassment. I would also like ask you to delete all
references to my name, company name and business partner's name off of David
Shankbone's contributions, which were only made to cause me embarrassment
and create drama. I will refrain from making any observations as to what
should be done about Mr. Shankbone himself, but I would like to ask that he
be requested to refrain from discussing me, my business and personal life on
WP space in the future.

Thank you in advance for your consideration.

Best wishes,

Paul Wehage
----------
From paul.wehage at gmail.com Fri Aug 1 13:50:39 2008
From: paul.wehage at gmail.com (Paul Wehage)
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 15:50:39 +0200
Subject: [Arbcom-l] My personal information on a AFD discussion,
in statements made by a WP editor who is stalking me off of WP.
In-Reply-To: <b236c3fc0808010508jad09972y5d2eab48410eba43@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b236c3fc0808010508jad09972y5d2eab48410eba43@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b236c3fc0808010650i55b03a2w906a8fb094d97c74@mail.gmail.com>

A further message: thanks to two administrators, the article was speedy
deleted and the discussion hidden as much as possible from search engines.
However, since this is the second instance of on-Wiki stalking by User:David
Shankbone which has used my name, my company's name and that of Mr.
Boisseau, I would still like the committee to consider the "stalking"
aspects of this activity, as I do not wish this to continue.

Thanking you for the good work already done and for your consideration in
the future.

Best wishes,

Paul Wehage
----------
From newyorkbrad at gmail.com Fri Aug 1 20:03:06 2008
From: newyorkbrad at gmail.com (Newyorkbrad (Wikipedia))
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 16:03:06 -0400
Subject: [Arbcom-l] My personal information on a AFD discussion,
in statements made by a WP editor who is stalking me off of WP.
In-Reply-To: <b236c3fc0808010650i55b03a2w906a8fb094d97c74@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b236c3fc0808010508jad09972y5d2eab48410eba43@mail.gmail.com>
<b236c3fc0808010650i55b03a2w906a8fb094d97c74@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c52819d30808011303q300a4fa9xedf4a2f80aad295f@mail.gmail.com>

This is a very serious problem that has spilled over intensively onto both
Wikipedia Review and Encyclopedia Dramatica. I can provide more details if
needed, but basically, David Shankbone needs to be told that he should not
be seeking out interaction with Mr. Wehage or related matters in any way,
shape, manner, or form.

NYB/IBM
----------
From user.jpgordon at gmail.com Fri Aug 1 21:00:42 2008
From: user.jpgordon at gmail.com (Josh Gordon)
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 14:00:42 -0700
Subject: [Arbcom-l] My personal information on a AFD discussion,
in statements made by a WP editor who is stalking me off of WP.
In-Reply-To: <c52819d30808011303q300a4fa9xedf4a2f80aad295f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b236c3fc0808010508jad09972y5d2eab48410eba43@mail.gmail.com>
<b236c3fc0808010650i55b03a2w906a8fb094d97c74@mail.gmail.com>
<c52819d30808011303q300a4fa9xedf4a2f80aad295f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <99c65f730808011400u32997169m1247bf21cf093a6c@mail.gmail.com>

I do wonder, though, when I see something like "We were the subject of an
Arb-com case involving the inclusion of women in the List of Opera
composers, which ended inconclusively", what side of reality the complainant
wakes up on each morning. [[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Jean-Thierry
Boisseau]] was hardly an inconclusive result.

Is there an existing case we can use to assert special authority in this
regard over David Shankbone? Is he on probation for dickitude?
----------
From newyorkbrad at gmail.com Fri Aug 1 21:17:58 2008
From: newyorkbrad at gmail.com (Newyorkbrad (Wikipedia))
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 17:17:58 -0400
Subject: [Arbcom-l] My personal information on a AFD discussion,
in statements made by a WP editor who is stalking me off of WP.
In-Reply-To: <99c65f730808011400u32997169m1247bf21cf093a6c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b236c3fc0808010508jad09972y5d2eab48410eba43@mail.gmail.com>
<b236c3fc0808010650i55b03a2w906a8fb094d97c74@mail.gmail.com>
<c52819d30808011303q300a4fa9xedf4a2f80aad295f@mail.gmail.com>
<99c65f730808011400u32997169m1247bf21cf093a6c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c52819d30808011417l4f644aemaa018e3f37092eca@mail.gmail.com>

On 8/1/08, Josh Gordon <user.jpgordon at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I do wonder, though, when I see something like "We were the subject of an
> Arb-com case involving the inclusion of women in the List of Opera
> composers, which ended inconclusively", what side of reality the complainant
> wakes up on each morning. [[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Jean-Thierry
> Boisseau]] was hardly an inconclusive result.
>
> Is there an existing case we can use to assert special authority in this
> regard over David Shankbone? Is he on probation for dickitude?
>


There are no specific remedies pending involving Shankbone. The prior case
involving him, RfAr/THF-David Shankbone, was dismissed after Shankbone drove
THF off Wikipedia.

My information (but caveat that it is not from an unimpeachable source), is
that Shankbone disliked Paul Wehage supposedly because on Wikipedia Review,
Wehage (posting as WR user The FieryAngel) approved when Daniel Brandt gave
me a hard time. Shankbone then outed The FieryAngel as Wehage, linked him
to the Boisseau case, escalated the dispute on WR to the point of either
quitting or being thrown out, and then Shankbone allegedly posted an article
about the matter on Encyclopedia Dramatica that was so-over-the top
defamatory and offensive that it was deleted for failing to satisfy ED's
standards for decorum and quality control (!). Some people at WR have
suggested that the ED article discussing me was created in retaliation
(which may or may not be true). In any event, with friends like this ....

It's a delightful situation all around, I don't think.

NYB/IBM
----------
From fredbaud at fairpoint.net Fri Aug 8 14:49:29 2008
From: fredbaud at fairpoint.net (Fred Bauder)
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 08:49:29 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Arbcom-l] [Oversight-l] David Shankbone issues
In-Reply-To: <b236c3fc0808080644r37ca3176wd7452dadde0e39ab@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1f476df50807311236k373996e9h48df163a552f1b14@mail.gmail.com>
<1f476df50808080255k28f5ff9bge08b8158f812586a@mail.gmail.com>
<F2A853DC-BC4D-4092-9C93-B7DDC179085A@mac.com>
<1f476df50808080420w3482d1ffvfd9167377bbbaaa0@mail.gmail.com>
<1f476df50808080633p2a7b9ec4uabca6e19c8558e3e@mail.gmail.com>
<b236c3fc0808080644r37ca3176wd7452dadde0e39ab@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54201.66.243.196.131.1218206969.squirrel@webmail.fairpoint.net>

Mr. Wehage,

Oversight-l deals only with edits in the English Wikipedia. You will need
to contact someone at the French Wikipedia to address an edit to that
Wikipedia.

I am sorry you have had all this trouble. The Arbitration Case, which I
participated in, was not intended as a rejection of either you or your
company. To the extent your activities are notable they should receive
appropriate coverage in Wikipedia. I hope that is acceptable to you.

I agree that continually bringing up past controversies is not in the
best interest of Wikipedia and agree that snide or contemptuous
references should be removed.

I hope that someday these controversies and the bad feelings involved
could be put in the past and that you could resume normal Wikipedia
editing.

Fred Bauder

>> I have a problem which involves personal information which has been
>> posted
> about me by a English Wikipedia user who goes by the username David
> Shankbone. I've already written to OTRS about this, but they said that
> they couldn't help me and I had to write to Arb-com. I've written to
> arbcom
> a week ago, but my mesage is still awaiting moderation: The editor is
> continuing this on French WP
>
> All I want at this point is to have my real name (Paul Wehage), my
> partner's
> real name (Jean-Thierry Boisseau) and our company's name taken off of any
> non-encyclopedia pages of WMF projects.
>
> I especially want the edits made by DS in which he makes comments about
> us
> oversighted (especially the edit he made on his Userpage on French
> Wikipedia
> in which he links to an attack blog that he made
> http://fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Utilisateur:David_Shankbone&diff=prev&oldid=29848858http://wehageboisseau.blogspot.com/as
> well as links on his English user page which he uses as an attack blog
> against Wikipedia users) and I would also like him to be officially
> invited
> not to do this sort of thing again (....and hopefully this could be
> extended
> to "other people", since nobody should be the subject of such
> treatment...)
----------
From newyorkbrad at gmail.com Fri Aug 22 14:30:16 2008
From: newyorkbrad at gmail.com (Newyorkbrad (Wikipedia))
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 10:30:16 -0400
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Situation requiring urgent attention
Message-ID: <c52819d30808220730p1f618846jea16f8e59c66c24e@mail.gmail.com>

I am forwarding below an e-mail from Paul Wehage (e-mail moniker Oscar
Lechien), who is associated with Musikfabrik in Europe and also known as
TheFieryAngel on Wikipedia Review. As some of you are aware, this
individual has been involved in a protracted feud with David Shankbone. The
situation has devolved into a complete mess both on-wiki and on various
other sites. For example, it has been alleged that David is responsible for
some attack articles surrounding this situation on Encyclopedia Dramatica,
at least one of which was deleted because it contained defamatory and
offensive conduct that did not satisfy the requirements for decorum
associated with that site. (!)

Wehage has violated Wikipedia policies at various times (see
RfAr/John-Thierry Boisseau) for some background, and recently misbehaved
again through the use of some sock accounts. At the same time, it is
necessary that David Shankbone disengage from further attacks on Wehage, and
certainly that he stop dragging his name into various discussions. We have
seen from the THF case, among other places, that David can be extremely
persistent and lose his sense of perspective when he wants to pursue
something.

The FieryAngel was previously very unfriendly to me on WR around the time of
the debacle in April, which is one reason that David (who had decided he
liked my contributions to WP) was upset with him at that time. More
recently, Oscar has been asking me to see what I can do to stop what he now
perceives a serious harassment from David. He has also warned me that I can
expect David to do the same sort of thing to me if I cross him, which may or
may not be the case. In any event, I feel the need to recuse myself from
this situation for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that I
will be seeing David personally at a meet-up in Brooklyn on Sunday
afternoon.
I advised "Oscar" to write to the ArbCom on this matter and he advises that
he did so about three weeks ago and never heard back from anyone. Both as a
matter of fairness to this concerned albeit previously problematic user, and
also as a personal favor to me, can someone urgently take ownership of this
issue, review the information provided, and follow up as appropriate.

Best regards,
Newyorkbrad
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Oscar Lechien <oscarlechien at gmail.com>
Date: Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 6:29 AM
Subject: Arbcom email
To: "Newyorkbrad (Wikipedia)" <newyorkbrad at gmail.com>


Hello Brad,

Here is the communication. Hopefully this will be self-explantory.

Sincerely,

Paul

==

Attention: To clarify, the point of this communication is not my personal
vindication or condemnation on Wikipedia. My objective is simply that
participants on WMF projects be requested to refrain from using my real life
name, my business name and from contacting any colleagues or associates in
order to inform them that I have been *excommunicated* from Wikipedia.
Nothing would give me greater pleasure than to no longer be required to
explain to people why all of this came to pass...and why it continues. I am
sure that you might perhaps understand why this would be mutually beneficial
to all. The following is an email which I sent to Arbcom-L several weeks
ago, to which I have added a series of diffs and other evidence.
----------
From fredbaud at fairpoint.net Fri Aug 22 14:46:18 2008
From: fredbaud at fairpoint.net (Fred Bauder)
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 08:46:18 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Situation requiring urgent attention
In-Reply-To: <c52819d30808220730p1f618846jea16f8e59c66c24e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c52819d30808220730p1f618846jea16f8e59c66c24e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <58494.66.243.196.131.1219416378.squirrel@webmail.fairpoint.net>

I engaged in some dialog with Paul via the oversight list, and did edit a
few of the more obnoxious posts by David to remove personal comments.
Paul definitely seems to have poked a skunk. I'm afraid David is another
highly productive editor with some very nasty habits. You have not done
well reining in such characters in the past, but I encourage you to
continue your efforts.

Fred

> I am forwarding below an e-mail from Paul Wehage (e-mail moniker Oscar
----------
From newyorkbrad at gmail.com Mon Aug 25 01:06:01 2008
From: newyorkbrad at gmail.com (Newyorkbrad (Wikipedia))
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 21:06:01 -0400
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Situation requiring urgent attention
In-Reply-To: <58494.66.243.196.131.1219416378.squirrel@webmail.fairpoint.net>
References: <c52819d30808220730p1f618846jea16f8e59c66c24e@mail.gmail.com>
<58494.66.243.196.131.1219416378.squirrel@webmail.fairpoint.net>
Message-ID: <c52819d30808241806x7427dd37tf66d8334ced854@mail.gmail.com>

Well, for a situation that I marked as calling for urgent attention, I don't
seem to have received it. I wonder how editors who aren't themselves
sitting arbitrators must feel when they have a serious concern.

In any event, by coincidence, I ran into David Shankbone at a meet-up this
afternoon, and he agreed to lay off further comments on-wiki or elsewhere
about Wehage/FieryAngel, provided the latter would do the same about him.
So hopefully we can have a few days of peace, and then start to unravel
whether there is any way of alleviating damage already done.

Newyorkbrad
----------
From szvest at gmail.com Mon Aug 25 01:42:00 2008
From: szvest at gmail.com (Fayssal F.)
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 02:42:00 +0100
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Situation requiring urgent attention
Message-ID: <2a8c5680808241842x3eae8302pa9708dd0cce9bb67@mail.gmail.com>

I find David's stance as childish, boring and unacceptable. It is childish
because it *is*. It is boring because it *is*. It is unacceptable because we
have wp:battle protecting us from such actions. David should stop this game
and if he plans otherwise then he must find some other venue to do so... not
here.

Fayssal F.

On Sun, 24 Aug 2008 21:06:01 -0400 "Newyorkbrad (Wikipedia)" <
newyorkbrad at gmail.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: [Arbcom-l] Situation requiring urgent attention
To: "Arbitration Committee mailing list"
<arbcom-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
Message-ID:
<c52819d30808241806x7427dd37tf66d8334ced854 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Well, for a situation that I marked as calling for urgent attention, I don't
----------
From newyorkbrad at gmail.com Thu Sep 11 16:22:27 2008
From: newyorkbrad at gmail.com (Newyorkbrad (Wikipedia))
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 12:22:27 -0400
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Fwd: Shankbone is overboard
In-Reply-To: <bd4c411e0809101954u6371c67ayde1d9e0965e2b4e7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <14b1e7be0809101940v2292a0b6n25792cd9cfc98798@mail.gmail.com>
<bd4c411e0809101954u6371c67ayde1d9e0965e2b4e7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c52819d30809110922o45f3bf72ld53bc5dfdc0cea4e@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Kelly Martin <kelly.lynn.martin at gmail.com>
Date: Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 10:54 PM
Subject: Fwd: Shankbone is overboard
To: "Newyorkbrad (Wikipedia)" <newyorkbrad at gmail.com>


Somehow I doubt Jimmy will forward this on to the ArbCom, but I rather
think it should be looked into.

Kelly

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Gregory Kohs <thekohser at gmail.com>
Date: Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 9:40 PM
Subject: Shankbone is overboard
To: Jimmy Wales <jwales at wikia-inc.com>
Cc: Anthony <wikilegal at inbox.org>, Kelly Martin
<kelly.lynn.martin at gmail.com>, Miri <mperel at gmail.com>


Jimmy,

He has previously called into question my wife, my daughter, and (now)
even my sister. And he's daring me to get psychiatric assessment.

This is permissible content on a Wikimedia project space?

http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Thekohser&diff=prev&oldid=1175128

He starts with "I pay you no attention", but then floods my Talk page
with more than 14,000 bytes of hate screed. When will he be reined
in?

Greg
-----------
From user.jpgordon at gmail.com Thu Sep 11 16:46:07 2008
From: user.jpgordon at gmail.com (Josh Gordon)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 09:46:07 -0700
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Fwd: Shankbone is overboard
In-Reply-To: <c52819d30809110922o45f3bf72ld53bc5dfdc0cea4e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <14b1e7be0809101940v2292a0b6n25792cd9cfc98798@mail.gmail.com>
<bd4c411e0809101954u6371c67ayde1d9e0965e2b4e7@mail.gmail.com>
<c52819d30809110922o45f3bf72ld53bc5dfdc0cea4e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <99c65f730809110946x751e46e7l275ff16802fc971a@mail.gmail.com>

Not our remit, is it? How is Meta policed, anyway?

On Thu, Sep 11, 2008 at 9:22 AM, Newyorkbrad (Wikipedia) <
newyorkbrad at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Kelly Martin <kelly.lynn.martin at gmail.com>
> Date: Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 10:54 PM
> Subject: Fwd: Shankbone is overboard
> To: "Newyorkbrad (Wikipedia)" <newyorkbrad at gmail.com>
>
>
> Somehow I doubt Jimmy will forward this on to the ArbCom, but I rather
----------
From dgerard at gmail.com Thu Sep 11 16:56:03 2008
From: dgerard at gmail.com (David Gerard)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 17:56:03 +0100
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Fwd: Shankbone is overboard
In-Reply-To: <99c65f730809110946x751e46e7l275ff16802fc971a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <14b1e7be0809101940v2292a0b6n25792cd9cfc98798@mail.gmail.com>
<bd4c411e0809101954u6371c67ayde1d9e0965e2b4e7@mail.gmail.com>
<c52819d30809110922o45f3bf72ld53bc5dfdc0cea4e@mail.gmail.com>
<99c65f730809110946x751e46e7l275ff16802fc971a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fbad4e140809110956g1ebeb346q8e5bf7c7ab6e30f7@mail.gmail.com>

2008/9/11 Josh Gordon <user.jpgordon at gmail.com>:

> Not our remit, is it? How is Meta policed, anyway?


The local admins and the stewards, I expect. "Not within mission"?

OTOH, for some reason I suspect that helping Mr Kohs in this situation
(or any) will rank somewhere below vomiting in a gutter. I don't know
why I think that'd be the case.


- d.
----------
From jayjg99 at gmail.com Thu Sep 11 17:15:37 2008
From: jayjg99 at gmail.com (jayjg)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 13:15:37 -0400
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Fwd: Shankbone is overboard
In-Reply-To: <fbad4e140809110956g1ebeb346q8e5bf7c7ab6e30f7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <14b1e7be0809101940v2292a0b6n25792cd9cfc98798@mail.gmail.com>
<bd4c411e0809101954u6371c67ayde1d9e0965e2b4e7@mail.gmail.com>
<c52819d30809110922o45f3bf72ld53bc5dfdc0cea4e@mail.gmail.com>
<99c65f730809110946x751e46e7l275ff16802fc971a@mail.gmail.com>
<fbad4e140809110956g1ebeb346q8e5bf7c7ab6e30f7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6a8d9d700809111015p51f73be7qe49c2b525251c678@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Sep 11, 2008 at 12:56 PM, David Gerard <dgerard at gmail.com> wrote:
> 2008/9/11 Josh Gordon <user.jpgordon at gmail.com>:
>
>> Not our remit, is it? How is Meta policed, anyway?
>
>
> The local admins and the stewards, I expect. "Not within mission"?
>
> OTOH, for some reason I suspect that helping Mr Kohs in this situation
> (or any) will rank somewhere below vomiting in a gutter. I don't know
> why I think that'd be the case.

Keep in mind that Kelly has admitted she only trolls Wikipedia these
days. I'd take anything they say with a boulder of salt.
----------
From charles.r.matthews at ntlworld.com Thu Sep 11 20:32:17 2008
From: charles.r.matthews at ntlworld.com (Charles Matthews)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 21:32:17 +0100
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Fwd: Shankbone is overboard
Message-ID: <20080911203217.JVEJ19289.aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@smtp.ntlworld.com>

jayjg wrote

> Keep in mind that Kelly has admitted she only trolls Wikipedia these
> days. I'd take anything they say with a boulder of salt.

Indeed, Kelly Martin expresses such insights as she has in such a way as to be as unhelpful as possible.

OTOH, it is quite pointless anybody on our team trying to do anything about Geoff Kohs, and one doesn't have to share Kelly's views to see that.

Charles
----------
From newyorkbrad at gmail.com Wed Sep 24 13:07:11 2008
From: newyorkbrad at gmail.com (Newyorkbrad (Wikipedia))
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 09:07:11 -0400
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Fwd: Threats against me
In-Reply-To: <14b1e7be0809240347g3b714fa8wf02d84ec308c1155@mail.gmail.com>
References: <14b1e7be0809240347g3b714fa8wf02d84ec308c1155@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c52819d30809240607jfbfba94sf1c00577dcff273b@mail.gmail.com>

We need to give this situation attention. I'm not the person to do it, but
please.

Newyorkbrad

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Gregory Kohs <thekohser at gmail.com>
Date: Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 6:47 AM
Subject: Threats against me
To: Mike Godwin <mgodwin at wikimedia.org>, "Newyorkbrad (Wikipedia)" <
newyorkbrad at gmail.com>
Cc: Jimmy Wales <jwales at wikia-inc.com>


http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Thekohser&diff=240616890&oldid=240549291

I am highly concerned about the threat left on my Talk page: "how far would
you like to take this, because it is about to go further than you might be
able to imagine".

It appears that the activity of User:Tortsarebad has set off David Shankbone
on a hostile threat toward me. Please investigate the User:Tortsarebad,
because I have no knowledge or recollection of ever having had ANYTHING to
do with that account. Shankbone, once again, has his facts wrong and he's
allowed himself to make sickening threats as a result of it. You are
requested to get him in line. I'm not saying he be banned from the
Wikimedia projects, since that would probably lead him to assault me. But,
I am requesting that you get him in line. He is currently over the line.

Greg
----------
From charles.r.matthews at ntlworld.com Wed Sep 24 13:12:36 2008
From: charles.r.matthews at ntlworld.com (Charles Matthews)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:12:36 +0100
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Fwd: Threats against me
Message-ID: <20080924131236.LPWX18637.aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@smtp.ntlworld.com>

"Newyorkbrad (Wikipedia)" wrote
>
> We need to give this situation attention. I'm not the person to do it, but
> please.

I think you said you'd met Shankbone, or were going to? Can you assess him for personality? It is pretty clear that he has been going over-the-top here. and my previous judgement on him related to the Arbitration case and the lobbyist was rather negative.

Charles
----------
From fredbaud at fairpoint.net Wed Sep 24 13:16:22 2008
From: fredbaud at fairpoint.net (Fred Bauder)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 07:16:22 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Fwd: Threats against me
In-Reply-To: <c52819d30809240607jfbfba94sf1c00577dcff273b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <14b1e7be0809240347g3b714fa8wf02d84ec308c1155@mail.gmail.com>
<c52819d30809240607jfbfba94sf1c00577dcff273b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56762.66.243.196.131.1222262182.squirrel@webmail.fairpoint.net>

I'm not sure it's a personal threat, more a warning of a incipient
Wikipedia dust-up should something be made of the allegations.

Fred

> We need to give this situation attention. I'm not the person to do it,
----------
From stephen.bain at gmail.com Wed Sep 24 13:20:18 2008
From: stephen.bain at gmail.com (Stephen Bain)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 23:20:18 +1000
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Fwd: Threats against me
In-Reply-To: <56762.66.243.196.131.1222262182.squirrel@webmail.fairpoint.net>
References: <14b1e7be0809240347g3b714fa8wf02d84ec308c1155@mail.gmail.com>
<c52819d30809240607jfbfba94sf1c00577dcff273b@mail.gmail.com>
<56762.66.243.196.131.1222262182.squirrel@webmail.fairpoint.net>
Message-ID: <f30e42de0809240620w10e82d09j84c0a6abc2b1b76b@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 11:16 PM, Fred Bauder <fredbaud at fairpoint.net> wrote:
> I'm not sure it's a personal threat, more a warning of a incipient
> Wikipedia dust-up should something be made of the allegations.

It's carelessly worded, in that case. It's a turn of phrase that
anyone should be able to realise can reasonably be understood as
threatening.

--
Stephen Bain
----------
From fredbaud at fairpoint.net Wed Sep 24 13:24:24 2008
From: fredbaud at fairpoint.net (Fred Bauder)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 07:24:24 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Fwd: Threats against me
In-Reply-To: <f30e42de0809240620w10e82d09j84c0a6abc2b1b76b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <14b1e7be0809240347g3b714fa8wf02d84ec308c1155@mail.gmail.com>
<c52819d30809240607jfbfba94sf1c00577dcff273b@mail.gmail.com>
<56762.66.243.196.131.1222262182.squirrel@webmail.fairpoint.net>
<f30e42de0809240620w10e82d09j84c0a6abc2b1b76b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56841.66.243.196.131.1222262664.squirrel@webmail.fairpoint.net>

> On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 11:16 PM, Fred Bauder <fredbaud at fairpoint.net>
> wrote:
>> I'm not sure it's a personal threat, more a warning of a incipient
>> Wikipedia dust-up should something be made of the allegations.
>
> It's carelessly worded, in that case. It's a turn of phrase that
> anyone should be able to realise can reasonably be understood as
> threatening.
>
> --
> Stephen Bain
> stephen.bain at gmail.com

And to take a dim view, such ambiguities are sometimes quite intentional.
It is not necessary to finely parse a whisper from a bully, to "watch
yourself".

Fred
----------
From ft2.wiki at gmail.com Wed Sep 24 13:25:04 2008
From: ft2.wiki at gmail.com (FT2)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:25:04 +0100
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Fwd: Threats against me
In-Reply-To: <f30e42de0809240620w10e82d09j84c0a6abc2b1b76b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <14b1e7be0809240347g3b714fa8wf02d84ec308c1155@mail.gmail.com>
<c52819d30809240607jfbfba94sf1c00577dcff273b@mail.gmail.com>
<56762.66.243.196.131.1222262182.squirrel@webmail.fairpoint.net>
<f30e42de0809240620w10e82d09j84c0a6abc2b1b76b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e71d9fab0809240625u5caa6cd6g5367296e92e9306d@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 2:20 PM, Stephen Bain <stephen.bain at gmail.com>wrote:

> On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 11:16 PM, Fred Bauder <fredbaud at fairpoint.net>
> wrote:
> > I'm not sure it's a personal threat, more a warning of a incipient
> > Wikipedia dust-up should something be made of the allegations.
>
> It's carelessly worded, in that case. It's a turn of phrase that
> anyone should be able to realise can reasonably be understood as
> threatening.
>
> --
> Stephen Bain
>
I commented on Shankbone's talk page. it got a non-aggressive response, and
I think it would be hard to challenge the point made.

If there is any time a repeat, can you let me know? Thanks,

Paul.
----------
From ft2.wiki at gmail.com Wed Sep 24 13:27:00 2008
From: ft2.wiki at gmail.com (FT2)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:27:00 +0100
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Fwd: Threats against me
In-Reply-To: <56841.66.243.196.131.1222262664.squirrel@webmail.fairpoint.net>
References: <14b1e7be0809240347g3b714fa8wf02d84ec308c1155@mail.gmail.com>
<c52819d30809240607jfbfba94sf1c00577dcff273b@mail.gmail.com>
<56762.66.243.196.131.1222262182.squirrel@webmail.fairpoint.net>
<f30e42de0809240620w10e82d09j84c0a6abc2b1b76b@mail.gmail.com>
<56841.66.243.196.131.1222262664.squirrel@webmail.fairpoint.net>
Message-ID: <e71d9fab0809240627j7ef7ae40nc94e07d10787b558@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 2:24 PM, Fred Bauder <fredbaud at fairpoint.net> wrote:

> And to take a dim view, such ambiguities are sometimes quite intentional.
> It is not necessary to finely parse a whisper from a bully, to "watch
> yourself".
>
> Fred
>
>
>
> Yes...

Paul.

Posted by: MaliceAforethought

From newyorkbrad at gmail.com Wed Sep 24 13:59:29 2008
From: newyorkbrad at gmail.com (Newyorkbrad (Wikipedia))
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 09:59:29 -0400
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Fwd: Threats against me
In-Reply-To: <e71d9fab0809240627j7ef7ae40nc94e07d10787b558@mail.gmail.com>
References: <14b1e7be0809240347g3b714fa8wf02d84ec308c1155@mail.gmail.com>
<c52819d30809240607jfbfba94sf1c00577dcff273b@mail.gmail.com>
<56762.66.243.196.131.1222262182.squirrel@webmail.fairpoint.net>
<f30e42de0809240620w10e82d09j84c0a6abc2b1b76b@mail.gmail.com>
<56841.66.243.196.131.1222262664.squirrel@webmail.fairpoint.net>
<e71d9fab0809240627j7ef7ae40nc94e07d10787b558@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c52819d30809240659y5a3c439drd32ebc95b109fab9@mail.gmail.com>

The allegation is that Shankbone is behind a series of vicious attack
articles on ED, some of which were actually deleted by ED as being below the
quality standards of that site (i.e., most likely, actually legally
defamatory or actionable rather than just annoying or outrageous).
Shankbone denies it (to my face at a meet-up), others think it's obvious
that it's true and that we need to be doing something about it, and it's
escalating out of control. At one point DS said he would de-escalate by
taking some stuff off his blog if WR would delete or "tarpit" (move to a
private area) their posts about him, but Somey said no....

It's a total mess, and I can't really be involved in helping, but Shankbone
REALLY needs to step back.

Newyorkbrad




On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 9:27 AM, FT2 <ft2.wiki at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 2:24 PM, Fred Bauder <fredbaud at fairpoint.net>wrote:
>
>> And to take a dim view, such ambiguities are sometimes quite intentional.
----------
From jayjg99 at gmail.com Wed Sep 24 14:04:26 2008
From: jayjg99 at gmail.com (jayjg)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 10:04:26 -0400
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Fwd: Threats against me
In-Reply-To: <c52819d30809240659y5a3c439drd32ebc95b109fab9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <14b1e7be0809240347g3b714fa8wf02d84ec308c1155@mail.gmail.com>
<c52819d30809240607jfbfba94sf1c00577dcff273b@mail.gmail.com>
<56762.66.243.196.131.1222262182.squirrel@webmail.fairpoint.net>
<f30e42de0809240620w10e82d09j84c0a6abc2b1b76b@mail.gmail.com>
<56841.66.243.196.131.1222262664.squirrel@webmail.fairpoint.net>
<e71d9fab0809240627j7ef7ae40nc94e07d10787b558@mail.gmail.com>
<c52819d30809240659y5a3c439drd32ebc95b109fab9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6a8d9d700809240704l45dfbb7cgb87ae4f0452825e@mail.gmail.com>

I doubt Kohs is as innocent as he pretends to be in all of this.

On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 9:59 AM, Newyorkbrad (Wikipedia)
<newyorkbrad at gmail.com> wrote:
> The allegation is that Shankbone is behind a series of vicious
----------
From dgerard at gmail.com Wed Sep 24 14:07:28 2008
From: dgerard at gmail.com (David Gerard)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 15:07:28 +0100
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Fwd: Threats against me
In-Reply-To: <6a8d9d700809240704l45dfbb7cgb87ae4f0452825e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <14b1e7be0809240347g3b714fa8wf02d84ec308c1155@mail.gmail.com>
<c52819d30809240607jfbfba94sf1c00577dcff273b@mail.gmail.com>
<56762.66.243.196.131.1222262182.squirrel@webmail.fairpoint.net>
<f30e42de0809240620w10e82d09j84c0a6abc2b1b76b@mail.gmail.com>
<56841.66.243.196.131.1222262664.squirrel@webmail.fairpoint.net>
<e71d9fab0809240627j7ef7ae40nc94e07d10787b558@mail.gmail.com>
<c52819d30809240659y5a3c439drd32ebc95b109fab9@mail.gmail.com>
<6a8d9d700809240704l45dfbb7cgb87ae4f0452825e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fbad4e140809240707j467b9906o5c70cf7c5378bcac@mail.gmail.com>

2008/9/24 jayjg <jayjg99 at gmail.com>:

> I doubt Kohs is as innocent as he pretends to be in all of this.


No shit. He's more lucid than Merkey, but approximately as reliable.


- d.
-----------
From newyorkbrad at gmail.com Wed Sep 24 14:10:09 2008
From: newyorkbrad at gmail.com (Newyorkbrad (Wikipedia))
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 10:10:09 -0400
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Fwd: Threats against me
In-Reply-To: <fbad4e140809240707j467b9906o5c70cf7c5378bcac@mail.gmail.com>
References: <14b1e7be0809240347g3b714fa8wf02d84ec308c1155@mail.gmail.com>
<c52819d30809240607jfbfba94sf1c00577dcff273b@mail.gmail.com>
<56762.66.243.196.131.1222262182.squirrel@webmail.fairpoint.net>
<f30e42de0809240620w10e82d09j84c0a6abc2b1b76b@mail.gmail.com>
<56841.66.243.196.131.1222262664.squirrel@webmail.fairpoint.net>
<e71d9fab0809240627j7ef7ae40nc94e07d10787b558@mail.gmail.com>
<c52819d30809240659y5a3c439drd32ebc95b109fab9@mail.gmail.com>
<6a8d9d700809240704l45dfbb7cgb87ae4f0452825e@mail.gmail.com>
<fbad4e140809240707j467b9906o5c70cf7c5378bcac@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c52819d30809240710j10c3f10s22bead6a704b9bef@mail.gmail.com>

The ED attacks are primarily on TheFieryAngel/Oscar Lechien, and from what
I've seen were pretty bad. Again, the disputed factual issue is whether DS
is related to them or not.

NYB

On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 10:07 AM, David Gerard <dgerard at gmail.com> wrote:

> 2008/9/24 jayjg <jayjg99 at gmail.com>:
>
> > I doubt Kohs is as innocent as he pretends to be in all of this.
----------
From ft2.wiki at gmail.com Wed Sep 24 14:22:16 2008
From: ft2.wiki at gmail.com (FT2)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 15:22:16 +0100
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Fwd: Threats against me
In-Reply-To: <c52819d30809240659y5a3c439drd32ebc95b109fab9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <14b1e7be0809240347g3b714fa8wf02d84ec308c1155@mail.gmail.com>
<c52819d30809240607jfbfba94sf1c00577dcff273b@mail.gmail.com>
<56762.66.243.196.131.1222262182.squirrel@webmail.fairpoint.net>
<f30e42de0809240620w10e82d09j84c0a6abc2b1b76b@mail.gmail.com>
<56841.66.243.196.131.1222262664.squirrel@webmail.fairpoint.net>
<e71d9fab0809240627j7ef7ae40nc94e07d10787b558@mail.gmail.com>
<c52819d30809240659y5a3c439drd32ebc95b109fab9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e71d9fab0809240722g48bbb18cyad62106afad01c08@mail.gmail.com>

Like it or not, off-site matters cannot fully be regulated by wikipedia
editors (of whatever level of access or no exceptional access). Put simply,
we *cannot* prevent two adults going at it hammer and tongs off-site, or any
other tactic (socking, anonymous posts on attack sites, whatever). Our
responsibility extends to the point they must leave it completely at the
door -- both of them -- on-site. Can we not make that clear?

Paul.




On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 2:59 PM, Newyorkbrad (Wikipedia) <
newyorkbrad at gmail.com> wrote:

> The allegation is that Shankbone is behind a series of vicious attack
----------
From charles.r.matthews at ntlworld.com Wed Sep 24 14:32:43 2008
From: charles.r.matthews at ntlworld.com (Charles Matthews)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 15:32:43 +0100
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Fwd: Threats against me
Message-ID: <20080924143243.SFBY19289.aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@smtp.ntlworld.com>

> Put simply,
> we *cannot* prevent two adults going at it hammer and tongs off-site, or any
> other tactic (socking, anonymous posts on attack sites, whatever). Our
> responsibility extends to the point they must leave it completely at the
> door -- both of them -- on-site. Can we not make that clear?
>
> Paul.

OK, I'm in contact with Kohs now, representing myself as someone who has had no dealings with Shankbone. He knows me from the days of his sending me mails calling me a retard, so we're basically on good terms.

What next? I'm going to have to write to Shankbone. My first thought is a defensive line: please do nothing that will get you in the next edition of "The Register"?

Charles

Posted by: thekohser

David Gerard:

Posted by: thekohser

From Charles Matthews:

Posted by: the fieryangel

I found this part rather funny, in hindsight :

Posted by: Cla68

QUOTE(the fieryangel @ Wed 6th July 2011, 2:43pm)

Posted by: Wikileaker

Raul654.

Posted by: Cla68

QUOTE(Wikileaker @ Wed 6th July 2011, 10:49pm)

Posted by: thekohser

QUOTE(Cla68 @ Thu 7th July 2011, 1:51am)

QUOTE(Wikileaker @ Wed 6th July 2011, 10:49pm)

Raul654.

Raul654 seems to have the tendency to pick the side in an controversy which, in hindsight, has less of a moral high ground than the other side.