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_ Editors _ I Declare World Wiki War on Admin Anonymity

Posted by: FLIPSIDE

I have been to many Wikipedia review sites now, and am less than enthused with the endless ball-lessness and lukewarm debate over the ethics over ending Wikipedia Administrative Anonymity. Out of respect for the rules of Wikipedia Review, I am not posting the names here, but I will give you the link to my first dedicated Information Bomb against Wikipedia. It is now my official mission to ruin Anonymity on Wikipedia. If anyone has anything useful to contribute, consider yourselves invited to contact me. I am currently only impressed by the work of Daniel Brandt and Judd Bagley, and observe that the various forums "critical" of Wikipedia are excessively staffed by Wikipedia Admins, as evidenced by their blistering wails (Wales?) whenever solid information comes out.

To whatever end, I now offer you the new WIKIPEDIA USER DATABASE at Haters Magazine

http://www.contextflexed.com/storywikipediaexposed.html

Posted by: Peter Damian

QUOTE(FLIPSIDE @ Tue 1st April 2008, 5:03pm) *

http://www.contextflexed.com/storywikipediaexposed.html[/url]


Interesting but FT2 is certainly not Ian Limbach. Limbach is based in Europe, FT2 is not. FT2 is full-time NLP trainer and not journalist.

Posted by: dogbiscuit

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Tue 1st April 2008, 5:47pm) *

QUOTE(FLIPSIDE @ Tue 1st April 2008, 5:03pm) *

http://www.contextflexed.com/storywikipediaexposed.html[/url]


Interesting but FT2 is certainly not Ian Limbach. Limbach is based in Europe, FT2 is not. FT2 is full-time NLP trainer and not journalist.


I was a little surprised to see TheKosher outed there too. Shocking revelation indeed.

Posted by: FLIPSIDE

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Tue 1st April 2008, 11:47am) *

QUOTE(FLIPSIDE @ Tue 1st April 2008, 5:03pm) *

http://www.contextflexed.com/storywikipediaexposed.html[/url]


Interesting but FT2 is certainly not Ian Limbach. Limbach is based in Europe, FT2 is not. FT2 is full-time NLP trainer and not journalist.


Thanks! I will modify the known to be less accurate portion list to be more accurate based on these types of notices.

Posted by: BobbyBombastic

Comment about this line:

QUOTE
^demon / Danny = Danny Wool (FL) dannyisme@gmail.com http://veropedia.com St.Petersburg, Florida, USA


I'm not sure what you are trying to say there, but ^demon is not Danny Wool. ^demon does not hide his real name, to my knowledge.

My initial thought is that this list is overkill. How long did this take from the start until now?

Posted by: Alex

QUOTE(FLIPSIDE @ Tue 1st April 2008, 4:03pm) *

I have been to many Wikipedia review sites now, and am less than enthused with the endless ball-lessness and lukewarm debate over the ethics over ending Wikipedia Administrative Anonymity. Out of respect for the rules of Wikipedia Review, I am not posting the names here, but I will give you the link to my first dedicated Information Bomb against Wikipedia. It is now my official mission to ruin Anonymity on Wikipedia. If anyone has anything useful to contribute, consider yourselves invited to contact me. I am currently only impressed by the work of Daniel Brandt and Judd Bagley, and observe that the various forums "critical" of Wikipedia are excessively staffed by Wikipedia Admins, as evidenced by their blistering wails (Wales?) whenever solid information comes out.

To whatever end, I now offer you the new WIKIPEDIA USER DATABASE at Haters Magazine

http://www.contextflexed.com/storywikipediaexposed.html


I'm not actually a vandal proof admin by the way (this is Majorly), you may like to fix that.

Posted by: FLIPSIDE

QUOTE(Alex @ Tue 1st April 2008, 12:16pm) *

QUOTE(FLIPSIDE @ Tue 1st April 2008, 4:03pm) *

I have been to many Wikipedia review sites now, and am less than enthused with the endless ball-lessness and lukewarm debate over the ethics over ending Wikipedia Administrative Anonymity. Out of respect for the rules of Wikipedia Review, I am not posting the names here, but I will give you the link to my first dedicated Information Bomb against Wikipedia. It is now my official mission to ruin Anonymity on Wikipedia. If anyone has anything useful to contribute, consider yourselves invited to contact me. I am currently only impressed by the work of Daniel Brandt and Judd Bagley, and observe that the various forums "critical" of Wikipedia are excessively staffed by Wikipedia Admins, as evidenced by their blistering wails (Wales?) whenever solid information comes out.

To whatever end, I now offer you the new WIKIPEDIA USER DATABASE at Haters Magazine

http://www.contextflexed.com/storywikipediaexposed.html


I'm not actually a vandal proof admin by the way (this is Majorly), you may like to fix that.


Yes. I will fix all small tweaks like that after a brief feedback collection period, and recheck any glaring misattributions.

Posted by: LessHorrid vanU

Sometimes - and this actually a serious point, with regard to some peoples possible desire to be (sort of) recognised - I wish I were a little more furtive about my identity, just so I could be put up on these lists as a "person of mystery". However, I can't be arsed.

Hey, Flipside, if Wikipedia "relative estrangement from the facts" bothers you - don't ever subscribe to one of those dating sites. You might explode.

Posted by: FLIPSIDE

QUOTE(LessHorrid vanU @ Tue 1st April 2008, 4:23pm) *

Sometimes - and this actually a serious point, with regard to some peoples possible desire to be (sort of) recognised - I wish I were a little more furtive about my identity, just so I could be put up on these lists as a "person of mystery". However, I can't be arsed.

Hey, Flipside, if Wikipedia "relative estrangement from the facts" bothers you - don't ever subscribe to one of those dating sites. You might explode.

LOL (Can I say that?)

Posted by: wikiwhistle

QUOTE(LessHorrid vanU @ Tue 1st April 2008, 10:23pm) *

Sometimes - and this actually a serious point, with regard to some peoples possible desire to be (sort of) recognised - I wish I were a little more furtive about my identity, just so I could be put up on these lists as a "person of mystery". However, I can't be arsed.


Lol! I don't think I'd really like to be outed. It happened to me on another site, just because a family friend fell out with me and started broadcasting my name everywhere. She'd done so a bit anyway just because she was quite a newbie to the internets and so not as cautious.

QUOTE

Hey, Flipside, if Wikipedia "relative estrangement from the facts" bothers you - don't ever subscribe to one of those dating sites. You might explode.



Lol! How about 'friends reunited' or whatever similar sites? I've known quite a few people embroider their lives so they sound more impressive than they really are, on there.

Posted by: Alison

QUOTE(FLIPSIDE @ Tue 1st April 2008, 9:03am) *

I have been to many Wikipedia review sites now, and am less than enthused with the endless ball-lessness and lukewarm debate over the ethics over ending Wikipedia Administrative Anonymity. Out of respect for the rules of Wikipedia Review, I am not posting the names here, but I will give you the link to my first dedicated Information Bomb against Wikipedia. It is now my official mission to ruin Anonymity on Wikipedia. If anyone has anything useful to contribute, consider yourselves invited to contact me. I am currently only impressed by the work of Daniel Brandt and Judd Bagley, and observe that the various forums "critical" of Wikipedia are excessively staffed by Wikipedia Admins, as evidenced by their blistering wails (Wales?) whenever solid information comes out.

To whatever end, I now offer you the new WIKIPEDIA USER DATABASE at Haters Magazine

http://www.contextflexed.com/storywikipediaexposed.html


Tsk. You didn't spell my name right. tongue.gif And the bit, "helped kill Amorrow's account then Fake Retired" is completely bogus given, 1) Amorrow was banned before I was even sysop and 2) I never "fake retired" as I'd remained editing (and quite enjoying it) when I handed up my sysop and c/u bits. I'd intended to stay gone but got Hiveminded anyways rolleyes.gif

Oh and the me 'n' Foz cabal? lol! biggrin.gif

Posted by: UseOnceAndDestroy

QUOTE(Alison @ Tue 1st April 2008, 11:05pm) *
I never "fake retired" as I'd remained editing (and quite enjoying it) when I handed up my sysop and c/u bits. I'd intended to stay gone but got Hiveminded anyways


You fake retired as a response to being put on Hivemind - rather than coming back after being "Hiveminded anyways", as the above suggests.




Posted by: bluevictim

QUOTE(UseOnceAndDestroy @ Tue 1st April 2008, 3:13pm) *

QUOTE(Alison @ Tue 1st April 2008, 11:05pm) *
I never "fake retired" as I'd remained editing (and quite enjoying it) when I handed up my sysop and c/u bits. I'd intended to stay gone but got Hiveminded anyways


You fake retired as a response to being put on Hivemind - rather than coming back after being "Hiveminded anyways", as the above suggests.

She didn't retire, she resigned her sysop and checkuser powers, and still remained an editor. Guy Chapman fake retired I think twice, then he came back both times to be an asshole and go off in insane rants about trolls and such.

Posted by: Alison

QUOTE(UseOnceAndDestroy @ Tue 1st April 2008, 3:13pm) *

QUOTE(Alison @ Tue 1st April 2008, 11:05pm) *
I never "fake retired" as I'd remained editing (and quite enjoying it) when I handed up my sysop and c/u bits. I'd intended to stay gone but got Hiveminded anyways


You fake retired as a response to being put on Hivemind - rather than coming back after being "Hiveminded anyways", as the above suggests.


Check the timeline. Brandt made the threat re. Fozzie. I went to meta and handed up the bits. I was later requested to complete 1 c/u request, as I'd most experience on the matter. Once the bit was reset, Mr. Brandt read the act as duplicity whereupon he did the Hivemind thing anyway. At that point, cats were out of bags and bets were off, etc, etc. Now that info is being used far and wide by a number of people, one of whom (one Andrew William Morrow) has even gone to the trouble of personally thanking Mr. Brandt for his actions.

And on it goes ... I'm still here, both on WR and WP. Go figure tongue.gif

Posted by: wikiwhistle

You implied you were leaving wikipedia (I think you said 'come on guys, let me go!' or something) in response to brandt's threat to put you up there. Not that I blame you necessarily smile.gif

Then you said on here you were only back/stiill there for short-term, specific tasks.



I hope you don't leave anyway. smile.gif


And you and Foz- you can't deny you seem to have a close friendship here. It's not like saying the 'alison and brandt cabal' or something smile.gif

Posted by: Alison

QUOTE(wikiwhistle @ Tue 1st April 2008, 3:56pm) *

You implied you were leaving wikipedia (I think you said 'come on guys, let me go!' or something) in response to brandt's threat to put you up there. Not that I blame you necessarily smile.gif


Well, I went back to being an avid editor again in the while I was de-opped. Started going over pharma/med articles and the Irish Maritime project stuff. Twas fun smile.gif Someone said at the time, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Alison/Archive_20#Meta_request

QUOTE(wikiwhistle @ Tue 1st April 2008, 3:56pm) *


Then you said on here you were only back/stiill there for short-term, specific tasks.

I hope you don't leave anyway. smile.gif


Thanks! smile.gif The "back for the specific task" concerned one final c/u job (relating to Amorrow. Surprise!) and this caused the confusion. It was only ever meant to be back on for minutes but ended up being on overnight because of time differences and stuff (right, Lar?).

QUOTE(wikiwhistle @ Tue 1st April 2008, 3:56pm) *

And you and Foz- you can't deny you seem to have a close friendship here. It's not like saying the 'alison and brandt cabal' or something smile.gif


Yeah, we're good pals smile.gif That's true ....

Posted by: FLIPSIDE

QUOTE(Alison @ Tue 1st April 2008, 5:05pm) *



Tsk. You didn't spell my name right.


Sorry about spelling your name wrong. Must be my kindergarten girlfriend giving me flashbacks. I'll fix that.

(video montage)

All fixed.

I can haz job at Apple Computers?

Posted by: Lar

QUOTE(Alison @ Tue 1st April 2008, 7:06pm) *

Thanks! smile.gif The "back for the specific task" concerned one final c/u job (relating to Amorrow. Surprise!) and this caused the confusion. It was only ever meant to be back on for minutes but ended up being on overnight because of time differences and stuff (right, Lar?).


Right. Or you were ignoring me as per usual, I forget. smile.gif

Posted by: michael

That was horrible.

If you're going to out users, make it classy, like Brandt. Make a table, at least.

Posted by: Somey

QUOTE(michael @ Tue 1st April 2008, 7:51pm) *
If you're going to out users, make it classy, like Brandt. Make a table, at least.

And photos! We've got to have photos! huh.gif

I'm sorry if some of us are "ball-less," but aside from the fact that we actually do have a few members who are women, some of us have just concluded that this sort of action is no good unless you have clear moral justification for it. Personally, I think you have to be a BLP victim to reach that level of justification... And as has been pointed out above, the potential risk of a false positive is always there too.

Posted by: FLIPSIDE

QUOTE(michael @ Tue 1st April 2008, 7:51pm) *

That was horrible.

If you're going to out users, make it classy, like Brandt. Make a table, at least.


I appreciate fine columns and rows like the next man, but I developed this in .txt and then c**tpasted it to Html, preferring to focus on the info. I thought the links and anchors were nice. I didn't want to get too into adding all those Helga, bug eyed tranny pics of the powerbrokers. I do have to keep my lunch down.

Posted by: bluevictim

I believe things like this and hivemind should be a database of the names, universities, graduation dates, field(s), and profession of all editors who have ever claimed a degree and. If the editor's claimed credentials are false, with evidence that the degrees are fake, it should be listed as so. The real name of the editor should still remain, though, if the degree is fake, to provide accountability. In the case of of an editor who claims experience, but not necessarily a degree, and has edited in their supposed field, the information should be: real given name and surname, field of expertise, a link to the editor's report, and profession. At least one e-mail address, if known, should be provided for contact. In the event the e-mail address is used for harassment, the address should be taken down. Processes should be the same if the expertise is fake.

My definition of an expert is someone who has experience (i.e., not book knowledge, and not intuition) in a field, and has done a report on their experience. The two words seem to have the same root, exper-. For example, I would define an expert in Indian anthropology as someone who has actually went to India, extensively study and document a culture there (their customs, life, and cultural highlights), optionally live with the people, and then organize their journal/documentation and write a report about it, then publish it.

Posted by: Milton Roe

QUOTE(bluevictim @ Wed 2nd April 2008, 2:42am) *

I believe things like this and hivemind should be a database of the names, universities, graduation dates, field(s), and profession of all editors who have ever claimed a degree and. If the editor's claimed credentials are false, with evidence that the degrees are fake, it should be listed as so. The real name of the editor should still remain, though, if the degree is fake, to provide accountability. In the case of of an editor who claims experience, but not necessarily a degree, and has edited in their supposed field, the information should be: real given name and surname, field of expertise, a link to the editor's report, and profession. At least one e-mail address, if known, should be provided for contact. In the event the e-mail address is used for harassment, the address should be taken down. Processes should be the same if the expertise is fake.

Might be a good idea for Wikipedia also. But then the question is what to do with the info. I've made suggestions (an additional layer of article promotion, or grading, with only acknowledged experts permitted to participate)
QUOTE(bluevictim @ Wed 2nd April 2008, 2:42am) *

My definition of an expert is someone who has experience (i.e., not book knowledge, and not intuition) in a field, and has done a report on their experience. The two words seem to have the same root, exper-. For example, I would define an expert in Indian anthropology as someone who has actually went to India, extensively study and document a culture there (their customs, life, and cultural highlights), optionally live with the people, and then organize their journal/documentation and write a report about it, then publish it.

I forsee problems with the pedophilia and zoophilia articles ohmy.gif , but generally something like that should work. Qualify by adding that, for topics where academic credentials are used, or licenses are granted (for example an airplane pilot's license with multiengine cert), then those should be count and/or be required. That gets us though the sciences, technologies, and a surprising number of other subjects tought in college. However, I don't quite know what we're going to do for topics like ghosts or homeopathy or ESP, since there are endless debates about what qualifies as "experience."

Posted by: Proabivouac

QUOTE(FLIPSIDE @ Tue 1st April 2008, 4:03pm) *

To whatever end, I now offer you the new WIKIPEDIA USER DATABASE at Haters Magazine

Why on earth are you "outing" ALM scientist? He's not an administrator, isn't part of any cabal, and has done you no wrong.

Posted by: bluevictim

QUOTE(Proabivouac @ Tue 1st April 2008, 9:34pm) *

QUOTE(FLIPSIDE @ Tue 1st April 2008, 4:03pm) *

To whatever end, I now offer you the new WIKIPEDIA USER DATABASE at Haters Magazine

Why on earth are you "outing" ALM scientist? He's not an administrator, isn't part of any cabal, and has done you no wrong.

And he's also outing Alison for no reason.

Posted by: Somey

QUOTE(bluevictim @ Tue 1st April 2008, 11:42pm) *
And he's also outing Alison for no reason.

Ooh, maybe he's a misogynist too? He seems to be into rap music, which has traditionally been notorious for that sort of thing.

Mind you, he does make some fairly good points:
QUOTE
Since the most abusive admins are closest to the top of the Wikipedia hierarchy and since they nominate and approve the other admins as well as hide amongst them claiming "legitimate use of sockpuppets", I will out them all at my convenience until the anonymity function of Wikipedia Administration becomes useless, and the editors have to resort to honesty and straightforwardness. I further hold that my reaction is the natural and justifiable reaction that any reasonable person with surplus time, resources, skill, and pride would make after being kicked off an allegedly free 501 c) Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game by a team of medallion-wearing hentai and anal fisting experts for the crime of having a known identity and a sense of self-esteem and personal authority without having been duly appointed to Admin status or given any "Barnstars" for being obseqious and minuscule.

Nota Bene: Wikipedia had its chance. Wikipedia formally decided in March 2007 that Real Life Editorial and Administrative accountability was *not* going to be permitted. Regarding persons other than themselves, they believe they have a right to nose about in everyone else's business, accusing them of "internet crimes" such as Conflict of Interest, Spam, and Stalking when their identities are revealed. This includes half of the persons allegedly "criticizing" and "reforming" Wikipedia. The truth is that a central cabal of Wikipedia admins, including Risker, AudeVivere, David Gerard, Josh Gordon, Michael Noda, and Jayjg, have such enormously fat heads that they regularly discuss expanding the prosecutorial and probationary police powers of Wikipedia into real communities to have Wikipedians who disagree with Admins ---arrested! That desired capacity alone merits a full-scale attack on Wikipedian Anonymity. That Wikipedia is considered an information authority and uses coding hooks and crooks to place first in Google is another reason. Or perhaps you prefer to be ruled unworthy of existence by the self-proclaimed search engine police.

It's a little blustery, of course, but it's hard to argue with the facts. (Even if he did leave out the "u" in "obsequious"... getlost.gif )

Presumably the bit about "formally decided in March 2007 that Real Life Editorial and Administrative accountability was *not* going to be permitted" is a reference to the post-Essjay "credentials verification" debate. Remember how they got a lot of press for their "credentials verification initiative" as if it were really going to happen, and when it didn't and in fact the opposite happened, the press basically ignored the fact that they'd essentially lied their asses off over the whole thing? They really got away with one there.

However, he seems to be saying that someone - User:Irishguy? - deleted his user account, when in fact it was http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log/delete&page=User:Contextflexed, along with the talk page, by User:MZMcBride, who seems to make a habit of that sort of thing. However, the account had fewer than 50 edits, so maybe they've got some sort of policy about that (they always do)...

Apparently User:Contextflexed had http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Irishguy&diff=prev&oldid=191709195, which isn't a term I'm familiiar with...? It looks like Irishguy was removing a link to http://www.contextflexed.com/revgelderloos.html from the article on Peter_Gelderloos, author of How Nonviolence Protects the State. To be honest, I don't see how the link Irishguy removed is significantly less "notable" than the ones that were left in, though there's no question that it's a terribly negative review, accusing Gelderloos of having written the "worst swindle since Rock n Roll."

Of course, some of us here may prefer to conclude that the real reason for all this is his http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Chip_Berlet&diff=prev&oldid=187576418.

Posted by: Proabivouac

QUOTE(Somey @ Wed 2nd April 2008, 5:37am) *

It's a little blustery, of course, but it's hard to argue with the facts.

It's a complete non sequitur to criticize a ruling cabal of administrators, and then print the name of someone like ALM scientist, who isn't even a well-connected user, much less an administrator or a checkuser, and has zero interest in Wikipedia politics.

The government sucks, so I'll attack a bunch of random people.

Posted by: Viridae

Yay I see my name.

Posted by: Somey

QUOTE(Proabivouac @ Wed 2nd April 2008, 12:47am) *
It's a complete non sequitur to criticize a ruling cabal of administrators, and then print the name of someone like ALM scientist, who isn't even a well-connected user, much less an administrator or a checkuser, and has zero interest in Wikipedia politics.

The government sucks, so I'll attack a bunch of random people.

That seems to be exactly what he's doing, though the "government" in this case is WP, of course... If anything, Mr. FLIPSIDE is actually defending the government by writing a negative review of a book by an anarchist who apparently advocates violence against the state, or at least is an apologist for it. I should point out that while this review essentially attacks a living person, his only edits to the BLP article on Gelderloos were to re-add the one link - he didn't attempt to insert anything defamatory about him directly into the article. Also, bear in mind that the link had been in the article for five whole months, prior to being removed by User:Irishguy as "non-notable." Was there was any talk-page discussion of this? I couldn't find any, and quite frankly, I doubt it.

Anyway.... we've been over all these arguments many times, but the one I think Mr. FLIPSIDE may be missing is the fact that many of these people actually want to be identified. Everybody loves attention, and he's only playing into their hands at the expense of people like, as you say, the ostensibly harmless (and mostly inactive) User:ALM_scientist. Personally, I believe the number of such people has been significantly underestimated by us, if not by most people who profess moral outrage (justifiably or not) against WP's anonymous-editor culture.

And lastly, I'll be honest here: I don't think I agree with much of what Mr. FLIPSIDE believes or writes, and of course I've never been all that fond of rap music... but we can't deny that he's looked at the same problems and come to many of the same conclusions, even if he states those conclusions more stridently than most. Ultimately what he's doing may be ineffective or even counter-productive, but he's clearly no silly/childish "vandal" or "troll" - he's every bit as much an intellectual as I am, or anybody else here, or on WP for that matter. He just happens to not like much of anything... I can respect that, I guess.

Posted by: Miltopia

If this is an attempt to inject false positives into the databases of people who really do keep track of this stuff, it's not very good.

I call bullshit.

Posted by: Alison

QUOTE(Proabivouac @ Tue 1st April 2008, 9:34pm) *

QUOTE(FLIPSIDE @ Tue 1st April 2008, 4:03pm) *

To whatever end, I now offer you the new WIKIPEDIA USER DATABASE at Haters Magazine

Why on earth are you "outing" ALM scientist? He's not an administrator, isn't part of any cabal, and has done you no wrong.


And Vox Humana, too. Why??? He's only a young teenager, isn't an admin & just keeps his head down and edits music and church-related articles. What exactly did he ever do? dry.gif

Posted by: Milton Roe

QUOTE(FLIPSIDE @ Tue 1st April 2008, 4:03pm) *

To whatever end, I now offer you the new WIKIPEDIA USER DATABASE at Haters Magazine
http://www.contextflexed.com/storywikipediaexposed.html

The article on Chip Berlet alone is worth the link. I believe I also recognize the type.
http://www.contextflexed.com/storychipberlet.html

Posted by: Giggy

Oh wow, he couldn't even get the right username attached to my email.

Kudos.

Posted by: Lar

QUOTE(bluevictim @ Tue 1st April 2008, 10:42pm) *

I believe things like this and hivemind should be a database of the names, universities, graduation dates, field(s), and profession of all editors who have ever claimed a degree and. If the editor's claimed credentials are false, with evidence that the degrees are fake, it should be listed as so. The real name of the editor should still remain, though, if the degree is fake, to provide accountability. In the case of of an editor who claims experience, but not necessarily a degree, and has edited in their supposed field, the information should be: real given name and surname, field of expertise, a link to the editor's report, and profession. At least one e-mail address, if known, should be provided for contact. In the event the e-mail address is used for harassment, the address should be taken down. Processes should be the same if the expertise is fake.

My definition of an expert is someone who has experience (i.e., not book knowledge, and not intuition) in a field, and has done a report on their experience. The two words seem to have the same root, exper-. For example, I would define an expert in Indian anthropology as someone who has actually went to India, extensively study and document a culture there (their customs, life, and cultural highlights), optionally live with the people, and then organize their journal/documentation and write a report about it, then publish it.

Does it need to be in a peer reviewed (academic) journal? Or would something in a widely circulated popular magazine (say National Geo) do? Or a narrowly circulated one? Or self published? Somewhere in there (not exactly sure where) it goes from solid to slippery...

I think the idea of credentials is good, I have said more than once I wish that Wikipedia had been started with a real names only requirement, and my real name is out there for all to see, but I think the credentials about experience might need a bit more work yet.

Don't confuse that sentiment with approval of outing those who joined WP under the current system, and especially not with approval of this particular effort. My fix would be to start the project over with new rules about identity, rather than to out people. (although I recognise that is rather more work and less fun than making up a page of names)

Posted by: FLIPSIDE

QUOTE(Proabivouac @ Tue 1st April 2008, 11:34pm) *

Why on earth are you "outing" ALM scientist? He's not an administrator, isn't part of any cabal, and has done you no wrong.


I think that not everyone is on the same wavelength about this. ALM scientist has done me no wrong. Neither have I done him wrong.

QUOTE(Giggy)

Oh wow, he couldn't even get the right username attached to my email.


True fact.

QUOTE(Miltopia)

If this is an attempt to inject false positives...

It's not. This is a good faith action, clearly signed by my name, and updated and repaired.

QUOTE(Viridae)

Yay I see my name.

You should be proud. You do a lot of srs bizniss on teh internets. Take credit.

QUOTE(Somey)

(Even if he did leave out the "u" in "obsequious"...

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo!


QUOTE(Somey)

I think Mr. FLIPSIDE may be missing is the fact that many of these people actually want to be identified. Everybody loves attention, and he's only playing into their hands at the expense of people...

You're right. I'm not missing it. I'd like to be an advantage as well as seek an advantage. Inactives have to expect that the world will change around them and decide to make better use of the changes.


Posted by: guy

QUOTE(Lar @ Wed 2nd April 2008, 12:44pm) *

Does it need to be in a peer reviewed (academic) journal? Or would something in a widely circulated popular magazine (say National Geo) do? Or a narrowly circulated one? Or self published? Somewhere in there (not exactly sure where) it goes from solid to slippery...

It needs to be something that is a reliable source.

By the way - correction - Sarah is a completely different admin from SV.

Posted by: EricBarbour

QUOTE

(Even if he did leave out the "u" in "obsequious"...
Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo!


mad.gif laugh.gif

Flipside's list is the funniest thing I've seen on WR so far.
Props, dude. Be prepared for the flames of HELL. tongue.gif

(Still wanna know more about Irishguy.)

Posted by: Lar

QUOTE(guy @ Wed 2nd April 2008, 9:25am) *

QUOTE(Lar @ Wed 2nd April 2008, 12:44pm) *

Does it need to be in a peer reviewed (academic) journal? Or would something in a widely circulated popular magazine (say National Geo) do? Or a narrowly circulated one? Or self published? Somewhere in there (not exactly sure where) it goes from solid to slippery...

It needs to be something that is a reliable source.

That works for me. There are those that have pointed out that the definition of RS is itself imperfect.

Posted by: One

Good admixture of truth and garbage. No wonder you're peeved about being exiled from Wikipedia.

Posted by: bluevictim

I don't really think one should have to have a degree, experience, or both. If one claims a degree or expertise, many people will trust them more if they edit articles in their field than someone who doesn't claim those things or someone who claims not to have them. I myself don't trust experts more (except for certain things), but since many others do, a user who claims a degree or expertise should state things that would prove it, such as a reference to their published, peer-reviewed report and/or a link to it on the web. The reference should be in the format Firstname Lastname, Publication (Year). lso, college records would be useful for their user page, if they saythey are an expert or a graduate and edit articles in their field. I don't think we should care that the Wikipedian in question is a Wobbly and in my opinion, it is not useful information. I think FLIPSIDE knows what I'm talking about.

Edit: One, who are you talking to/about?
Edit2: Lar, I don't care whether it's self-published or not, it needs to be peer reviewed. Not necessarily by experts, because other people's points of view should be included in the Review too.

Posted by: Proabivouac

QUOTE(FLIPSIDE @ Wed 2nd April 2008, 12:45pm) *

QUOTE(Proabivouac @ Tue 1st April 2008, 11:34pm) *

Why on earth are you "outing" ALM scientist? He's not an administrator, isn't part of any cabal, and has done you no wrong.


I think that not everyone is on the same wavelength about this. ALM scientist has done me no wrong. Neither have I done him wrong.

Come on, dude. You've made it very clear that you mean to get back at Wikipedia, and this list is meant to be part of that. I accept that this tactic is justified in some instances and necessary in others, but to pretend that you're not meaning any harm here is completely insincere.

Really, you don't think you're doing people harm by posting their contact information?

ALM never told me why he changed his username, and I never asked - who needs to ask? Most rational people chose to keep their real names out of Wikipedia flame wars, and who can blame them? So now you come around and sing, "nya nya nya nya nya nya, I know your real name!" and you don't think there is something fundamentally unprovoked and uncalled for here?

Go ahead and get back at Wikipedia, but for God's sake, choose your targets. Brandt is already firing wildly in all directions, including people who are on the right side of bio issue and have advocated deleting his, but at least they're administrators. You've really established a new low here by including people who aren't even arguably responsible for what happens on the site besides their own contributions.

Posted by: guy

QUOTE(Lar @ Wed 2nd April 2008, 7:35pm) *

There are those that have pointed out that the definition of RS is itself imperfect.

I think that's Lar's most beautiful understatement to date.

Posted by: tarantino

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Tue 1st April 2008, 4:47pm) *

QUOTE(FLIPSIDE @ Tue 1st April 2008, 5:03pm) *

http://www.contextflexed.com/storywikipediaexposed.html


Interesting but FT2 is certainly not Ian Limbach. Limbach is based in Europe, FT2 is not. FT2 is full-time NLP trainer and not journalist.


Are you sure? As you can see from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/81.86.166.33, in 2004-2005, it looks like he was editing from the U.K. In addition to the IP editing FT2's user page, it also edited German Shepherd Dog, Zoophilia and http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Srinivasa_Ramanujan&offset=20050317000000&limit=50&action=history, all in proximity to FT2.

Posted by: FLIPSIDE

QUOTE(bluevictim @ Wed 2nd April 2008, 2:11pm) *

I don't think we should care that the Wikipedian in question is a Wobbly and in my opinion, it is not useful information. I think FLIPSIDE knows what I'm talking about.


Yes I do. And it *should* not matter -- if one can be reasonably expected to rise above superficial political beliefs and act in good faith.

QUOTE(proabivouac @ Today, 2:54pm)


Come on, dude. You've made it very clear that you mean to get back at Wikipedia, and this list is meant to be part of that. I accept that this tactic is justified in some instances and necessary in others, but to pretend that you're not meaning any harm here is completely insincere.

Really, you don't think you're doing people harm by posting their contact information?


I mean to bring the heat to Wikipedia as a whole, specifically the top of Wikipedia, give it a fever, what have you, until it burns out the IrishGuy infection, but not by harming individual users. I don't see this as using a scattergun against innocent bystanders. I see this as taking a few steps to change the entire Wikipedia playing board through medium sized, holistic, and not overreaching tactics.

People should keep their real names out of Wikipedia flame wars. There should be no Wikipedia flame wars. I think it's called for to place a universal price tag on anonymous flaming. I agree with choosing targets. I have chosen the target of Wikipedia as transnational state or as Civ. The target was preselected from the onset of the project at MIT, and the first person kicked off Wikipedia back when it was a little blob at MIT became the first Troll/Sockpuppet of WP. I advocate a much less craven and much more firm and total alteration of the community over there as the first participant to officially be willing to Othello flip every single Wikipedian if necessary. It's not out of big headedness, it's out of determination to participate with will.

Posted by: Amarkov

QUOTE(FLIPSIDE @ Wed 2nd April 2008, 3:07pm) *

QUOTE(proabivouac @ Today, 2:54pm)


Come on, dude. You've made it very clear that you mean to get back at Wikipedia, and this list is meant to be part of that. I accept that this tactic is justified in some instances and necessary in others, but to pretend that you're not meaning any harm here is completely insincere.

Really, you don't think you're doing people harm by posting their contact information?


I mean to bring the heat to Wikipedia as a whole, specifically the top of Wikipedia, give it a fever, what have you, until it burns out the IrishGuy infection, but not by harming individual users. I don't see this as using a scattergun against innocent bystanders. I see this as taking a few steps to change the entire Wikipedia playing board through medium sized, holistic, and not overreaching tactics.


It doesn't really matter what you intended by doing this. The fact is, you are invading people's privacy, when many of them have done nothing but be associated with Wikipedia.

Posted by: FLIPSIDE

QUOTE(Amarkov @ Wed 2nd April 2008, 5:27pm) *


It doesn't really matter what you intended by doing this. The fact is, you are invading people's privacy, when many of them have done nothing but be associated with Wikipedia.

That is a nonsequitor. People who wish to remain private do not pose as editors of an encyclopedia. Every encyclopedia I have ever purchased has listed the names and credentials of the contributors. If we may move off the ethics issue back to the existential issue: Either Wikipedia is an Encyclopedia, or it is a Role Playing Game.

Posted by: Rootology

QUOTE(Amarkov @ Wed 2nd April 2008, 3:27pm) *
It doesn't really matter what you intended by doing this. The fact is, you are invading people's privacy, when many of them have done nothing but be associated with Wikipedia.


This is a question I asked once. Who empowered Wikipedia to invade the privacy of BLPs? Why do BLPs have to endure an article but any external scrutiny of the editors is always considered a bad and dangerous thing that hurts people in real life?

"Why are Wikipedia editors special creatures that are entitled to protections for their privacy that does not exist for the article subjects in Wikipedia?"

That question in italics is the thing no one can ever answer.

Posted by: Alison

QUOTE(FLIPSIDE @ Wed 2nd April 2008, 3:34pm) *

QUOTE(Amarkov @ Wed 2nd April 2008, 5:27pm) *


It doesn't really matter what you intended by doing this. The fact is, you are invading people's privacy, when many of them have done nothing but be associated with Wikipedia.

That is a nonsequitor. People who wish to remain private do not pose as editors of an encyclopedia. Every encyclopedia I have ever purchased has listed the names and credentials of the contributors. If we may move off the ethics issue back to the existential issue: Either Wikipedia is an Encyclopedia, or it is a Role Playing Game.


Actually no, let's stay with the ethics issue for a minute. Why is Vox Humana's name up there? Why is Risker's, for that matter? For that matter, why am *I* up there? All you did was copy Daniel Brandt's info, which he's already taken down. Right now it's starting to look like you just want to get at WMF by hurting as many contributors as possible, regardless of whether they're admins, BLP violators, whatever. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Prince against WP.

I look through the list and find that it's riddled with inaccuracies, downright disinformation ( laugh.gif ) and editors who have retired long ago. Right now, what you've done, IMO, is created a big long tl;dr list of WP editors simply because you wanna. dry.gif

Posted by: FLIPSIDE

QUOTE(Rootology @ Wed 2nd April 2008, 5:49pm) *


"Why are Wikipedia editors special creatures that are entitled to protections for their privacy that does not exist for the article subjects in Wikipedia?"

That question in italics is the thing no one can ever answer.


I agree with that question. And it is a question that Wittgenstein would say arises from a particular misunderstanding of language. After all, editors can be in fact entirely composed of computer programs. I use my Hypertext Editor to edit webpages. Why should (the deletionist) Wikipedia editors be treated differently than the dispassionate programmatic line altering functions they believe themselves to be? Under a 501 nonprofit, come one come all, user editable scenario, why shouldn't editors be treated as software offered under GNU and be decompiled, reverse engineered, cloned, and or improved?

QUOTE(Alison @ Wed 2nd April 2008, 5:56pm) *


Actually no, let's stay with the ethics issue for a minute. Why is Vox Humana's name up there? Why is Risker's, for that matter? For that matter, why am *I* up there? All you did was copy Daniel Brandt's info, which he's already taken down. Right now it's starting to look like you just want to get at WMF by hurting as many contributors as possible, regardless of whether they're admins, BLP violators, whatever. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Prince against WP.

I look through the list and find that it's riddled with inaccuracies, downright disinformation ( laugh.gif ) and editors who have retired long ago. Right now, what you've done, IMO, is created a big long tl;dr list of WP editors simply because you wanna. dry.gif


You are free to throw tantrums and make demands. My experience is that that only works if one is an Admin. It certainly doesn't work for a regular user. You are also invited to offer corrections to the onymous information pile. Being a West Coaster at the "pretty color" computer manufacturer, I understand your desire to remain on the ethical question. I am a PC/IBM person, and as you know, we are cold calculating utilitarians.

Posted by: Alison

QUOTE(FLIPSIDE @ Wed 2nd April 2008, 4:03pm) *
QUOTE(Alison @ Wed 2nd April 2008, 5:56pm) *


Actually no, let's stay with the ethics issue for a minute. Why is Vox Humana's name up there? Why is Risker's, for that matter? For that matter, why am *I* up there? All you did was copy Daniel Brandt's info, which he's already taken down. Right now it's starting to look like you just want to get at WMF by hurting as many contributors as possible, regardless of whether they're admins, BLP violators, whatever. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Prince against WP.

I look through the list and find that it's riddled with inaccuracies, downright disinformation ( laugh.gif ) and editors who have retired long ago. Right now, what you've done, IMO, is created a big long tl;dr list of WP editors simply because you wanna. dry.gif


You are free to throw tantrums and make demands. My experience is that that only works if one is an Admin. It certainly doesn't work for a regular user. You are also invited to offer corrections to the onymous information pile. Being a West Coaster at the "pretty color" computer manufacturer, I understand your desire to remain on the ethical question. I am a PC/IBM person, and as you know, we are cold calculating utilitarians.


All I'm doing is asking questions, just you're not answering is all. Where have I been making demands, hm? blink.gif

Nice dig about my employer, too rolleyes.gif It sounds like you're saying "neener neener. I know something abouuuuut you!!". Is that where all this is at? A power trip?

Posted by: FLIPSIDE

QUOTE(Alison @ Wed 2nd April 2008, 6:11pm) *


All I'm doing is asking questions, just you're not answering is all. Where have I been making demands, hm? blink.gif

Nice dig about my employer, too rolleyes.gif


I was going to say "Please Stop." But I couldn't keep a straight face.

Posted by: Rootology

QUOTE(FLIPSIDE @ Wed 2nd April 2008, 4:03pm) *

QUOTE(Rootology @ Wed 2nd April 2008, 5:49pm) *


"Why are Wikipedia editors special creatures that are entitled to protections for their privacy that does not exist for the article subjects in Wikipedia?"

That question in italics is the thing no one can ever answer.


I agree with that question. And it is a question that Wittgenstein would say arises from a particular misunderstanding of language. After all, editors can be in fact entirely composed of computer programs. I use my Hypertext Editor to edit webpages. Why should (the deletionist) Wikipedia editors be treated differently than the dispassionate programmatic line altering functions they believe themselves to be? Under a 501 nonprofit, come one come all, user editable scenario, why shouldn't editors be treated as software offered under GNU and be decompiled, reverse engineered, cloned, and or improved?


This is a simplification into the pointlessly fancy speak and gibberish that made me want to contribute less and less here. It's got nothing to do with retaliation.

It's a simple question: why and how did Wikipedia editors get this special status that attempts to out them are "IRL" hurtful and dangerous, but the same principle in reverse does not apply to BLP subjects?

It's simple. What law or social contract awarded those with "in good standing" Wikipedia accounts a unique social status and/or priviledge?

Posted by: FLIPSIDE

QUOTE(Rootology @ Wed 2nd April 2008, 7:45pm) *


This is a simplification into the pointlessly fancy speak and gibberish [...]

It's simple. What law or social contract awarded those with "in good standing" Wikipedia accounts a unique social status and/or priviledge?


Not trying to be cute. It is my understanding that this question can only be either:

Rhetorical
Philosophical
or Mechanical.

Posted by: bluevictim

The website that Flipside gives for Andrew Morrow has a weird, extensively long page about Alison under her real name. There are only two reasons he would even have her last name, he could have done the research himself, or used Daniel Brandt's or FLIPSIDE's information on her to get her real name.

Posted by: Lar

QUOTE(FLIPSIDE @ Wed 2nd April 2008, 6:34pm) *

QUOTE(Amarkov @ Wed 2nd April 2008, 5:27pm) *


It doesn't really matter what you intended by doing this. The fact is, you are invading people's privacy, when many of them have done nothing but be associated with Wikipedia.

That is a nonsequitor. People who wish to remain private do not pose as editors of an encyclopedia. Every encyclopedia I have ever purchased has listed the names and credentials of the contributors. If we may move off the ethics issue back to the existential issue: Either Wikipedia is an Encyclopedia, or it is a Role Playing Game.

So why am I on that list, then? I have never made any secret whatever of my identity, it's right there on my user page, so putting me on an outing list sort of misses the point doesn't it? I think you're just a guy with a grudge rather than a noble crusader...

Posted by: michael

And if you had any decency you'd obscure the email addresses instead of letting them pick up spam.

Posted by: Amarkov

QUOTE(Rootology @ Wed 2nd April 2008, 3:49pm) *

QUOTE(Amarkov @ Wed 2nd April 2008, 3:27pm) *
It doesn't really matter what you intended by doing this. The fact is, you are invading people's privacy, when many of them have done nothing but be associated with Wikipedia.


This is a question I asked once. Who empowered Wikipedia to invade the privacy of BLPs? Why do BLPs have to endure an article but any external scrutiny of the editors is always considered a bad and dangerous thing that hurts people in real life?

"Why are Wikipedia editors special creatures that are entitled to protections for their privacy that does not exist for the article subjects in Wikipedia?"

That question in italics is the thing no one can ever answer.


Article subjects should get the same protections, if they are nonpublic figures. But repeating every bad thing that Wikipedia does isn't going to help.

Posted by: Proabivouac

QUOTE(Rootology @ Thu 3rd April 2008, 12:45am) *

It's a simple question: why and how did Wikipedia editors get this special status that attempts to out them are "IRL" hurtful and dangerous, but the same principle in reverse does not apply to BLP subjects?

It's simple. What law or social contract awarded those with "in good standing" Wikipedia accounts a unique social status and/or priviledge?

It's a simple question with an easy answer: Wikipedia should not invade the privacy of BLP subjects. Wikipedia contributors do not have a unique right, or any right, to fire at real people's real names and real lives from behind the safety of pseudonymity.

Those contributors who do that deserve the same in return.

Those that don't, don't.

Is that too nuanced for you?

Posted by: Milton Roe

QUOTE(FLIPSIDE @ Wed 2nd April 2008, 10:34pm) *

If we may move off the ethics issue back to the existential issue: Either Wikipedia is an Encyclopedia, or it is a Role Playing Game.

It might be something else. One of the things it is, is an attempt to be an automatic writing machine for the benefit of Jimbo Wales, which extracts talent from the maximal number of brains, while deliberately encouraging them to be as masked and anonymous as possible, in order that the credit for their work shall not adhere to any of them, but will filter up to give glory to Jimbo.

You want to know one purpose of NPOV and NOR? To try to disguise the fact that any kind of writing is a creative and original act, which deserves credit intrinsically. At Wikipedia, they pretend that what's being done there is different, that it is completely unoriginal and sourced elsewhere, so that nobody can attempt to claim it. Originality is atomized, delocalized, denied, and deprecated. What's left is GFDL'd. Ordinary editors, which is to say content writers, are given no repect, and all power and authority is transferred to people who manage writers, as a farmer would manage cows who give milk.

You want to know why this setup harms people though biographizing them? That's mostly a side effect. If it's just an automatic writing machine for Jimbo, he can have all the credit without any responsibility. This much is like corporations and institutions everywhere (NASA managers no doubt see their engineers that way-- see decades of Dilbert Cartoons). Is a given Wiki article crappy? Don't blame Jimbo-- he didn't write it. Is it pretty good? Well, Thank Jimbo for setting up the software to create it. If the article happens to be a bio, well-- see above. The machine and overall product of it is far more important to Jimbo than any small bits which don't work out with the simple rules.

Posted by: Viridae

YOu want credentials? Here is my very broad degree (not the actual degree name, that would be giving too much away)

BSc (hons)

THere you go - credentials. However I rarely edit within my field of study (too much like work for me) and more in random interests I might have (see avatar).

Posted by: Alison

QUOTE(bluevictim @ Wed 2nd April 2008, 6:58pm) *

The website that Flipside gives for Andrew Morrow has a weird, extensively long page about Alison under her real name. There are only two reasons he would even have her last name, he could have done the research himself, or used Daniel Brandt's or FLIPSIDE's information on her to get her real name.

I was wondering when someone would point out the elephant in the room.

Yeah, he's got like 6 pages and counting and is forever trying to push it up the google rankings. I wonder what poor Alison C., the Australian poet thinks of it all.

But yeah - here's the site in all its masturbatory glory --> [redacted]

The http://www.webcitation.org/5Wb2mDESi was far more revealing of a rather sick psyche, IMO. Anyone who ever wanted to know just what's up with Andrew William Morrow need only read that screed to figure it all out. Seems like he got pwnd too many times by uppity women and now blames them for .. well, just about everything, really. He loves http://susanpolgar.blogspot.com/2006/08/chess-in-juneau-alaska.html - indeed, he literally gets off on it. Too bad he threatened the wrong woman early last year and got seriously pwned all over again. History repeats itself. Indeed, he got rather carried away on his website last week and crossed that bright white line again. He knows the one I mean. Just as well my "friends" archived a copy of it on webcitation.

Oh, and yes, he was tipped off by Daniel Brandt about my alleged surname. He says so quite clearly in his .. umm ... "treatise". His first draft was ready hours after Hivemind was updated so thanks for that, Mr. Brandt angry.gif

As for his emails - well, they're in a class of their own. I got the first few - enough to see that Daniel Brandt was also copied on them. I guess he's probably blackholed them ages ago, just as I now have. Here's a little extract from the last one I got before I consigned the rest to the bit bucket. This is the one where he starts mentioning my children;

QUOTE
I assure you that I have seen with my eyes the results of some of the worst child abuse that East San Jose has to offer and it is so horrendous as to challenged my faith in God. I pray to God that this web page never allows such minds to ever find your children (or my child, for that matter, and my child is in much greater danger than yours because my ex-wife used to help send them to the slammer for as long as possible and you can just imagine how motivated they would be to get their hands on my innocent daughter in order to exact a revenge on my ex-wife for her role in lengthening their sentences), but this outrageous insult of calling a hardworking intelligent man like Mr. Daniel Brandt a wazzock must be properly documented for posterity. He is a finer man than you will ever know and his reputation must also be protected.


You get the idea. Dreadfully http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=wazzock, that (for those not from the north of England).

In short; not only is he barking mad, he's also a rather sad, lonely little man.

Posted by: bluevictim

I was looking at the current version of it and I thought at first it didn't sound like him. But after I scrolled down, I found this little freak tidbit about licking smegma and other creepy things:

QUOTE
Oooh…. oooh…. I am almost there. How to keep going? I will think about licking the smegma off of the penis of the Govenor of the Great State of California. The top cop in our State, the man who lead our Blue Knights in protecting our society from harm. The man who uses the same right hand to both jerk off and to *not* sign reprieves for those on Death row. How convenient. The Internet provides me with a picture of his big, furry penis.

Only the FBI and our bushy bush-bush president (I would like the snuggle my nose in in his bush as he sit at the Resolute Desk and make important decisions about how to kill 4000 healthy, disciplined, well-equipped, patriotic, loyal and trained young Americans of high morale and tens of thousands of non-Americans (who must be very un-American because, uh, we need to kill them and get their oily so we can get all oily and squirmy-wormy and snuggly)). Time to get the correct latitude and longitude and altitude programmed into out little love bomb programmed in correctly. OK, so now, Mr. Jack Goldsmith, you are a really smart guy and you used to help go after naughty criminals and you understand all about who controls the Internet. OK. So, now, I have my Cessna all fueled, checked out, engine running and ready to take off from the tarmac of Regan National… The strap on is ad-hoc and crudely calibrated, but it is reading the GPS information correctly. I got the numbers all programmed in and strapped on to a home-made 1000 lbs GBU.. but there is just one thing sir. You're really smart. Tell me just one thing…just one little thing again just one more time. What was I suppose to do with this?


And this sounds even weirder than him. What I didn't get to see was the thing about touching and making love to the letters of your name.

Posted by: Somey

QUOTE(bluevictim @ Thu 3rd April 2008, 2:23am) *
What I didn't get to see was the thing about touching and making love to the letters of your name.

I didn't make a copy, but I suspect that was a reference to his 5,000 sq.ft. fabrication plant in the Mojave Desert where he builds 12-ft.-tall 3D signage, mostly for masturbatory purposes. (That's presumably Alison, right there in the center of the "O.")

FORUM Image


Though to be honest, I don't see how he manages to find any kind of quality physical stimulation in these things, even if he does manage to get all oily and squirmy-wormy and snuggly with them.

To each his own, I guess!

Posted by: dogbiscuit

Thanks for sharing - NOT!

Just off to scrub the inside of my eyeballs out. Yeuch!

Posted by: FLIPSIDE

QUOTE(Alison @ Thu 3rd April 2008, 2:02am) *

QUOTE(bluevictim @ Wed 2nd April 2008, 6:58pm) *

The website that Flipside gives for Andrew Morrow has a weird, extensively long page about Alison under her real name. There are only two reasons he would even have her last name, he could have done the research himself, or used Daniel Brandt's or FLIPSIDE's information on her to get her real name.

I was wondering when someone would point out the elephant in the room.


The order of discovery in your case was:

Wikipedia libels Brandt.
Alison and Fozzie ass out Amorrow.
Brandt finds and posts Alison's name to Hivemind.
Alison flips out, broadcasts her outrage in several locations on the net.
Amorrow reads Brandt's page, starts composing reduction charms of her name.
Wikipedia loses bluff, removes libel of Brandt.
Brandt removes Alison's name from Hivemind and destroys archive.
Flipside reads Alison's F-words all over the net, chuckles, gets last name from Amorrow's page, researches Amorrow, posts both real names to Haters Magazine.

Swatjester is a different story. Brandt and I discovered him independently and he posted his data while I was doing my list, prompting me to release it early.

Posted by: carbuncle

Well, I'm about as unimportant as an editor can get, but if you're collecting personal info, you can have mine. Someone, who is clearly not insane nor a stalker, has posted what they think is my info (having chosen one of their many IRL enemies). See http://blog.ourmarilyn.com/2008/04/02/marilyn-monroe-cyberstalkers--the-prquel.aspx

Maybe they can help you on your project, since you're also clearly not insane nor a stalker, and would probably get along quite well.

Posted by: guy

Welcome carbuncle. As far as we're concerned, every contributor here is important.

Posted by: Viridae

QUOTE(FLIPSIDE @ Fri 4th April 2008, 1:35am) *

QUOTE(Alison @ Thu 3rd April 2008, 2:02am) *

QUOTE(bluevictim @ Wed 2nd April 2008, 6:58pm) *

The website that Flipside gives for Andrew Morrow has a weird, extensively long page about Alison under her real name. There are only two reasons he would even have her last name, he could have done the research himself, or used Daniel Brandt's or FLIPSIDE's information on her to get her real name.

I was wondering when someone would point out the elephant in the room.


The order of discovery in your case was:

Wikipedia libels Brandt.
Alison and Fozzie ass out Amorrow.
Brandt finds and posts Alison's name to Hivemind.
Alison flips out, broadcasts her outrage in several locations on the net.
Amorrow reads Brandt's page, starts composing reduction charms of her name.
Wikipedia loses bluff, removes libel of Brandt.
Brandt removes Alison's name from Hivemind and destroys archive.
Flipside reads Alison's F-words all over the net, chuckles, gets last name from Amorrow's page, researches Amorrow, posts both real names to Haters Magazine.

Swatjester is a different story. Brandt and I discovered him independently and he posted his data while I was doing my list, prompting me to release it early.


Amorrow was assed out of wikipedia years ago actually.

Posted by: wikiwhistle

QUOTE(Viridae @ Fri 4th April 2008, 12:42am) *

Amorrow was assed out of wikipedia years ago actually.


He keeps coming back though- allegedly smile.gif

Posted by: Viridae

QUOTE(wikiwhistle @ Fri 4th April 2008, 10:52am) *

QUOTE(Viridae @ Fri 4th April 2008, 12:42am) *

Amorrow was assed out of wikipedia years ago actually.


He keeps coming back though- allegedly smile.gif


Well if you trust Alison/Lar - and I do - its pretty much confirmed.

Posted by: Lar

QUOTE(Viridae @ Thu 3rd April 2008, 7:54pm) *

QUOTE(wikiwhistle @ Fri 4th April 2008, 10:52am) *

QUOTE(Viridae @ Fri 4th April 2008, 12:42am) *

Amorrow was assed out of wikipedia years ago actually.


He keeps coming back though- allegedly smile.gif


Well if you trust Alison - and I do - its pretty much confirmed.

Make that "if you trust Alison and/or Lar" ...

Posted by: wikiwhistle

He (Amorrow) is loopy by all accounts. And writes about himself in the third person frequently, which can't be a good sign.

Posted by: Viridae

QUOTE(Lar @ Fri 4th April 2008, 12:02pm) *

QUOTE(Viridae @ Thu 3rd April 2008, 7:54pm) *

QUOTE(wikiwhistle @ Fri 4th April 2008, 10:52am) *

QUOTE(Viridae @ Fri 4th April 2008, 12:42am) *

Amorrow was assed out of wikipedia years ago actually.


He keeps coming back though- allegedly smile.gif


Well if you trust Alison - and I do - its pretty much confirmed.

Make that "if you trust Alison and/or Lar" ...


How do you know I trust you tongue.gif

J/K, changed.

Posted by: EricBarbour

QUOTE(Alison @ Thu 3rd April 2008, 12:02am) *

But yeah - here's the site in all its masturbatory glory --> http://amorrow.wikidot.com/alison-cassidy
In short; not only is he barking mad, he's also a rather sad, lonely little man.


Mildly amusing. Needs work.

QUOTE
Every time a Wikipedia admin is outed, Wikipedia becomes more mature. By now, Wikipedia has matured quite a bit: it has gone from being the encyclopedia edited by 12 years olds to being the encyclopedia edited by 13 year olds......


Sounds about right. wink.gif

Posted by: Count DeMonet

QUOTE(Alison @ Thu 3rd April 2008, 8:02am) *


But yeah - here's the site in all its masturbatory glory --> http://amorrow.wikidot.com/alison-cassidy


Thanks, but apparently Babelfish ain't got a bat-shit insane to English option, so I'm non-the-wiser.

dry.gif

not so much tl;dr

as

t blink.gif ;dr

Posted by: Alison

QUOTE(wikiwhistle @ Thu 3rd April 2008, 4:52pm) *

QUOTE(Viridae @ Fri 4th April 2008, 12:42am) *

Amorrow was assed out of wikipedia years ago actually.


He keeps coming back though- allegedly smile.gif

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&type=block&page=User:Unusuedbits ohmy.gif


QUOTE(FLIPSIDE @ Thu 3rd April 2008, 7:35am) *


The order of discovery in your case was:

Wikipedia libels Brandt.
Alison and Fozzie ass out Amorrow.
Brandt finds and posts Alison's name to Hivemind.
Alison flips out, broadcasts her outrage in several locations on the net.
Amorrow reads Brandt's page, starts composing reduction charms of her name.
Wikipedia loses bluff, removes libel of Brandt.
Brandt removes Alison's name from Hivemind and destroys archive.
Flipside reads Alison's F-words all over the net, chuckles, gets last name from Amorrow's page, researches Amorrow, posts both real names to Haters Magazine.

Swatjester is a different story. Brandt and I discovered him independently and he posted his data while I was doing my list, prompting me to release it early.


So you got my details from a stalker's page, huh? sad.gif And you find it amusing? As has been pointed out again and again, Amorrow was "assed out" years back, not only from Wikipedia, but he was found too freaky-weird for here, too. And he was laughed off ED, too, so go figure.

Here's a free hint, and this is a bit of information that neither Mr. Brandt nor Mr. Morrow seem to have discovered. Are you ready for this?

I don't live in Cupertino, CA. I only work there.

Exciting, huh? Gonna change your site, get a scoop on the other guys? wacko.gif

Posted by: FLIPSIDE

QUOTE(Alison @ Fri 4th April 2008, 12:50am) *

Gonna change your site, get a scoop on the other guys? wacko.gif


Nah. I'm busy researching Dreadstar, Naerii, East718, and I just outed Bigtimepeace. Your pal East must still be riled about Majorly. Either that, or he's just trying to prove his leet Jesuit East Coast Rap skillz by buffing any replacements I make to my user page.

Posted by: wikiwhistle

QUOTE(Alison @ Fri 4th April 2008, 6:50am) *

QUOTE(wikiwhistle @ Thu 3rd April 2008, 4:52pm) *

QUOTE(Viridae @ Fri 4th April 2008, 12:42am) *

Amorrow was assed out of wikipedia years ago actually.


He keeps coming back though- allegedly smile.gif

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&type=block&page=User:Unusuedbits ohmy.gif


I suppose I'm just sceptical a little after the other thread about how many people are blocked as socks, when they aren't. On the other hand, if they have anything like the unique writing style of his website, I expect his edits are quite distinctive smile.gif

Posted by: east.718

QUOTE(FLIPSIDE @ Fri 4th April 2008, 4:39pm) *
Nah. I'm busy researching Dreadstar, Naerii, East718, and I just outed Bigtimepeace. Your pal East must still be riled about Majorly. Either that, or he's just trying to prove his leet Jesuit East Coast Rap skillz by buffing any replacements I make to my user page.

Hey, I know you. I read one of your articles on hatersmag after somebody gave me a Black Swan CD in Boston and I kind of liked it.

I'm a bit curious as to what I did to draw your attention though. huh.gif

Posted by: FLIPSIDE

QUOTE(east.718 @ Fri 4th April 2008, 5:08pm) *

QUOTE(FLIPSIDE @ Fri 4th April 2008, 4:39pm) *
Nah. I'm busy researching Dreadstar, Naerii, East718, and I just outed Bigtimepeace. Your pal East must still be riled about Majorly. Either that, or he's just trying to prove his leet Jesuit East Coast Rap skillz by buffing any replacements I make to my user page.

Hey, I know you. I read one of your articles on hatersmag after somebody gave me a Black Swan CD in Boston and I kind of liked it.

I'm a bit curious as to what I did to draw your attention though. huh.gif

Just a discussion page revert on User:contextflexed. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Contextflexed&action=edit

I was puzzled, hoping it was just one of a giant line of generic reverts. Glad you liked the article. Black Swan is great. IrishGuy and OrangeMike don't like Haters Magazine, so an edit war turned into the deletion of my account and a mass outing of editors over a matter of two links. IrishGuy was trying to make an Unperson of both Termanology and Skitzofreniks, so I started fighting it out like a war. Over the past two days I have met a bunch of interesting people in the process of unveiling the identities of anyone related to reversions of my good faith edits.

Maybe I am being too raw about it. But I am getting a fair number of requests now from friends, and strangers who have been mistreated on WP by so many Halo gamers, and hundreds of hits from the wikipedia anon IP users. A lot of WP Admins are bitterly struggling with their own worthlessness and taking it out on qualified editors, publishers, emcees, software developers on WP. I am throwing my hat in with them and getting some advantage out of it while giving some advantage. I am relieved not to have a notability battle or a COI battle with a fellow East Coast rap enthusiast.

Posted by: east.718

QUOTE(FLIPSIDE @ Fri 4th April 2008, 6:27pm) *

QUOTE(east.718 @ Fri 4th April 2008, 5:08pm) *

QUOTE(FLIPSIDE @ Fri 4th April 2008, 4:39pm) *
Nah. I'm busy researching Dreadstar, Naerii, East718, and I just outed Bigtimepeace. Your pal East must still be riled about Majorly. Either that, or he's just trying to prove his leet Jesuit East Coast Rap skillz by buffing any replacements I make to my user page.

Hey, I know you. I read one of your articles on hatersmag after somebody gave me a Black Swan CD in Boston and I kind of liked it.

I'm a bit curious as to what I did to draw your attention though. huh.gif

Just a discussion page revert on User:contextflexed. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Contextflexed&action=edit

I was puzzled, hoping it was just one of a giant line of generic reverts. Glad you liked the article. Black Swan is great. IrishGuy and OrangeMike don't like Haters Magazine, so an edit war turned into the deletion of my account and a mass outing of editors over a matter of two links. IrishGuy was trying to make an Unperson of both Termanology and Skitzofreniks, so I started fighting it out like a war. Over the past two days I have met a bunch of interesting people in the process of unveiling the identities of anyone related to reversions of my good faith edits.

Maybe I am being too raw about it. But I am getting a fair number of requests now from friends, and strangers who have been mistreated on WP by so many Halo gamers, and hundreds of hits from the wikipedia anon IP users. A lot of WP Admins are bitterly struggling with their own worthlessness and taking it out on qualified editors, publishers, emcees, software developers on WP. I am throwing my hat in with them and getting some advantage out of it while giving some advantage. I am relieved not to have a notability battle or a COI battle with a fellow East Coast rap enthusiast.

You had your mind right before, all I deleted there was a broken link to http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Contextflexed&action=edit, which somebody else deleted a day before. I'm sure you've stalked my logs, so you can see this is a boring maintenance task I do hundreds of times a week, usually with a robot that doesn't care what it's deleting. I certainly don't know you (although maybe I'd like to talk shop with a fellow head one day).

And for everyone else, http://www.zshare.net/audio/10061761a593cba6/. Don't sleep!

Posted by: Milton Roe

QUOTE(FLIPSIDE @ Fri 4th April 2008, 10:27pm) *

Maybe I am being too raw about it. But I am getting a fair number of requests now from friends, and strangers who have been mistreated on WP by so many Halo gamers, and hundreds of hits from the wikipedia anon IP users. A lot of WP Admins are bitterly struggling with their own worthlessness and taking it out on qualified editors, publishers, emcees, software developers on WP. I am throwing my hat in with them and getting some advantage out of it while giving some advantage.

I forsee a new organization: Ex-Wikipedians Anonymous biggrin.gif

Step #1. Admit that on Wikipedia you were being used, and had no power.
Step #2. Surrender your belief that Wikipedia was worth adding to merely because it was a boon to mankind, because in fact it is run by martinets and clueless ignorant bastards.
Step #3. Spread the word to those who are tempted to contribute "just a bit". The first taste is free, like crack. And it turns out most of the worthwhile meaty content comes from such people. Cut this off at the root. Hey, expert on marine worms-- you think the place has any respect for you at all? I have an ocean you need to dunk your head in, some more.
Step #4. Never miss the opportunity to point out on Wikipedia that their policies actually make no sense, and are imposed on them from on high, by a guy who really is less intelligent and knowlegable than most of the people who work on the project. But thinks he should have ultimate say on policy there, anyway.
Step #5. Don't disengage completely. They want you to, because when you point out that the Emperor Has No Clothes (and those he does have need laundering), other people are enlightened as well.
Step #6. Do not give up getting the word out to let the ignorant media know that Wikipedia has systemic problems that it deliberately fails to fix, because it really is fully of martinets and clueless ignorant bastards.

Finally, point out that it is indeed symbolic that WMF has moved to San Francisco, the chief emitter of smuggness in the Northern Hemisphere.


Posted by: wikiwhistle

QUOTE(east.718 @ Fri 4th April 2008, 11:42pm) *

I'm sure you've stalked my logs


Do you mean viewed your contributions, by clicking 'view contributions' as anyone on wiki can?

Posted by: guy

QUOTE(wikiwhistle @ Sat 5th April 2008, 12:07am) *

QUOTE(east.718 @ Fri 4th April 2008, 11:42pm) *

I'm sure you've stalked my logs


Do you mean viewed your contributions, by clicking 'view contributions' as anyone on wiki can?

Wikiwhistle: you have to learn to speak Wikipedian. "stalked" does not have the same meaning in that language as in English.

Posted by: wikiwhistle

QUOTE(guy @ Sat 5th April 2008, 12:14am) *

QUOTE(wikiwhistle @ Sat 5th April 2008, 12:07am) *

QUOTE(east.718 @ Fri 4th April 2008, 11:42pm) *

I'm sure you've stalked my logs


Do you mean viewed your contributions, by clicking 'view contributions' as anyone on wiki can?

Wikiwhistle: you have to learn to speak Wikipedian. "stalked" does not have the same meaning in that language as in English.


I was hoping to play cognitive behavioural therapist, and help them challenge possibly irrational thoughts smile.gif


Posted by: Castle Rock

QUOTE(guy @ Fri 4th April 2008, 4:14pm) *

QUOTE(wikiwhistle @ Sat 5th April 2008, 12:07am) *

QUOTE(east.718 @ Fri 4th April 2008, 11:42pm) *

I'm sure you've stalked my logs


Do you mean viewed your contributions, by clicking 'view contributions' as anyone on wiki can?

Wikiwhistle: you have to learn to speak Wikipedian. "stalked" does not have the same meaning in that language as in English.

It depends. If you have his Contributions page bookmarked, have read it from front to back, and spend hours on your computer constantly hitting refresh, just waiting for his next edit, I'd consider that to be "stalking." Just not the legal definition, but still the actions of an obsessed mind.

Also what is the point of posting banned users identities (Blu Aardvark, Wikipedia Review). Equal opportunity creepiness?

Oh, I just saw your wishlist too. Good luck with finding MONGO, that is the Holy Grail of Wikipedia trolls. Also "BIGGEST WIKIPEDIA GAYLORD FASCISTS" is just childish.

QUOTE(FLIPSIDE @ hatersmag)

172 -- Leftist revisionist

Hahahahaha

Posted by: wikiwhistle

QUOTE(Castle Rock @ Sat 5th April 2008, 12:21am) *


It depends. If you have his Contributions page bookmarked, have read it from front to back, and spend hours on your computer constantly hitting refresh, just waiting for his next edit, I'd consider that to be "stalking." Just not the legal definition, but still the actions of an obsessed mind.


Obsessive maybe, but we've no proof this bloke did that, anyway 'stalking' is not a passive activity like reading, but involves actions.

Posted by: east.718

QUOTE(guy @ Fri 4th April 2008, 7:14pm) *
QUOTE(wikiwhistle @ Sat 5th April 2008, 12:07am) *
Do you mean viewed your contributions, by clicking 'view contributions' as anyone on wiki can?
Wikiwhistle: you have to learn to speak Wikipedian. "stalked" does not have the same meaning in that language as in English.
"Stalk" has a different context in East Coast slang; it can either mean to hang out with somebody, to visit someplace, or to pass through an area.

Posted by: FLIPSIDE

Wikiped-ese or not, "stalked my logs" sounds like some kind of brownie hounding bathroom phenomenon of which I would like to attribute to others and never be engaged in.

Posted by: Alison

QUOTE(FLIPSIDE @ Fri 4th April 2008, 5:19pm) *

Wikiped-ese or not, "stalked my logs" sounds like some kind of brownie hounding bathroom phenomenon of which I would like to attribute to others and never be engaged in.


Homophobe much? rolleyes.gif

Posted by: FLIPSIDE

QUOTE(Alison @ Fri 4th April 2008, 7:24pm) *

QUOTE(FLIPSIDE @ Fri 4th April 2008, 5:19pm) *

Wikiped-ese or not, "stalked my logs" sounds like some kind of brownie hounding bathroom phenomenon of which I would like to attribute to others and never be engaged in.


Homophobe much? rolleyes.gif

Yeah. Much.

Posted by: wikiwhistle

Aah, a "friend of JzG" biggrin.gif

Posted by: FLIPSIDE

QUOTE(wikiwhistle @ Fri 4th April 2008, 7:31pm) *

Aah, a "friend of JzG" biggrin.gif

Well, if you look at his ED tattoo pic, you can see how guys (Guys?) like us have to do double shifts to ward off the Greco Roman admirers.

Posted by: Random832

QUOTE(FLIPSIDE @ Fri 4th April 2008, 10:27pm) *

Just a discussion page revert on User:contextflexed. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Contextflexed&action=edit


Huh?

What East718 did there was delete the page (not revert it), with a deletion summary of "csd r1".

That is a very specific deletion reason. It means it was a redirect to a page that has been deleted. It is not his fault the page it was a redirect to was deleted, and it is not his fault that it was a redirect.

I see that he already said this above... but I have to wonder how many of your other grudges are based on misreading stuff as well.

Posted by: FLIPSIDE

QUOTE(Random832 @ Fri 4th April 2008, 7:39pm) *

QUOTE(FLIPSIDE @ Fri 4th April 2008, 10:27pm) *

Just a discussion page revert on User:contextflexed. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Contextflexed&action=edit


Huh?

What East718 did there was delete the page (not revert it), with a deletion summary of "csd r1".

That is a very specific deletion reason. It means it was a redirect to a page that has been deleted. It is not his fault the page it was a redirect to was deleted, and it is not his fault that it was a redirect.

I see that he already said this above... but I have to wonder how many of your other grudges are based on misreading stuff as well.

"Wonder" my butt. Do wikipedians ever get tired of being horn rimmed sophists?

I run a BADSITE. It stands to reason I am a BADPERSON with BADJUDGJMENT too.

Posted by: Random832

QUOTE(guy @ Fri 4th April 2008, 11:14pm) *

...speak Wikipedian. "stalked" does not have the same meaning in that language as in English.

You. have. no. idea.

Something you may not know...

On IRC, some users have various words (!admin, !admin@commons, !checkuser, etc) set to cause the taskbar item for the channel window to hilight and possibly for a beeping sound to be emitted - the same way that most clients are set by default to treat the user's own nickname. This is useful because it allows people to say "!admin please take a look at ...something..." and someone who maybe wasn't looking at that window at the time will have their attention drawn to it. There are also bots which will emit words like !badmove or !imageabuse, to draw the attention of admins who are experienced in dealing with these issues and have included those words in the set of words they have highlighting enabled for.

Now, why do I bring this up? What could this possibly have to do with the difference between "Wikipedian" and English with reference to the word "stalk"?

Well, you see...

In Wiki*edia IRC jargon, these are called "stalkwords", and one would for example say "I have !-admin stalked"

Posted by: Castle Rock

QUOTE(FLIPSIDE @ Fri 4th April 2008, 5:42pm) *

QUOTE(Random832 @ Fri 4th April 2008, 7:39pm) *

QUOTE(FLIPSIDE @ Fri 4th April 2008, 10:27pm) *

Just a discussion page revert on User:contextflexed. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Contextflexed&action=edit


Huh?

What East718 did there was delete the page (not revert it), with a deletion summary of "csd r1".

That is a very specific deletion reason. It means it was a redirect to a page that has been deleted. It is not his fault the page it was a redirect to was deleted, and it is not his fault that it was a redirect.

I see that he already said this above... but I have to wonder how many of your other grudges are based on misreading stuff as well.

"Wonder" my butt. Do wikipedians ever get tired of being horn rimmed sophists?

I run a BADSITE. It stands to reason I am a BADPERSON with BADJUDGJMENT too.

Or because East718 runs a bot to do it automatically.

Posted by: bluevictim

FLIPSIDE: So, you're such a great sleuth. Well, here's a challenge for you. I would like to see what information you can come up for me. No phone numbers, E-mail addresses, or home addresses, please. I will give you some clues:

1. I am an indefinitely blocked editor on the English Wikipedia, and "since no administrator [seems to be] willing to unblock me, I am therefore considered banned". I have appealed to the Mediation and Arbitration Committee, who refused to unblock me.
2. I am male. If that really helps.
3. The only place I use the name "bluevictim" is on ImageShack.us, here, and Wikipedia Review.com. If this name is used elsewhere, as of now, it is not me and an impersonator or someone who coincidentally thought of the same username.
4. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Ryulong and another user that I will not name have done a tag-team stalking me. After "Name Redacted" (no, not Slim), a Checkuser, privately gets a request (or just does it anyway) to check my account for sockpuppetry, "Name Redacted" will tell Ryulong the names of my sockpuppets. Ryulong will then revert every edit, constructive or not, that I've made. To my surprise, I checked articles that I've created or contributed to, to see who has edited them, and found in the history Ryulong, with a rollback summary and no explanation. I also noticed no one else has engage in this behavior regarding me and my sockpuppets' edits. I find this conduct inappropriate of him.
5. The history of my user page has been deleted and replaced with the banned template, but just a search for my Wikipedia username will give my first and last name, city, state, and country, and my age (and birth date if you look hard enough).

I find this to be enough information for you to find me, if you are a good enough internet sleuth.

EDIT: From now on, FLIPSIDE and other users' speculation about my identity goes here. It strays from the topic of the thread.

Posted by: Somey

You're... William Shakespeare?

Holy shit! Well, I'd just like to say that I really liked Hamlet.

Posted by: Kato

QUOTE(Somey @ Sat 5th April 2008, 7:04am) *

You're... William Shakespeare?

Holy shit! Well, I'd just like to say that I really liked Hamlet.

I was thinking that BlueVictim was the great philospher http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Rorty judging by his posts. But I remembered that Rorty died recently. So it can't be him.

Posted by: bluevictim

I'd also like to say, http://www.online-literature.com/forums/member.php?u=11365 is not me. I don't know or think this person is trying to impersonate me, and I know I wasn't trying to impersonate them. I just now searched on Clusty and found that someone has the same username as me on a site I've never visited.

Posted by: Somey

QUOTE(bluevictim @ Sat 5th April 2008, 1:31am) *
I just now searched on Clusty and found that someone has the same username as me on a site I've never visited.

Well, this is basically what I've been saying all along. Everyone and his brother are blue victims. If you want to stand out, you've got to choose a more distinctive color, like mauve, sienna, or maybe even goldenrod.

I mean, even purplevictim produces no Google hits, and that one's in the standard 16-color Windows "system" pallette.

Posted by: Somey

QUOTE(Alison @ Wed 2nd April 2008, 5:56pm) *
Actually no, let's stay with the ethics issue for a minute. Why is Vox Humana's name up there? Why is Risker's, for that matter?

We got an e-mail from User:Risker a couple of days ago, which we didn't act on immediately because we're extremely lazy, but he had noticed his name on Mr. FLIPSIDE's list and that there was a notation beside it saying "Wants to make it an I.R.L. crime to out wikipedia editors."

He didn't feel like registering a WR account - I think he said his aunt had the flu or something - but he did want us to post the following on his behalf. All apologies for the delay, of course.
QUOTE(Risker @ Apr. 2, 2008)
I have absolutely NO idea where that came from. My position is that maintaining pseudonymity on Wikipedia is strictly the responsibility of the editor, and that the Foundation's responsibility is fulfilled by giving proper warnings to editors that they are responsible for this. My preference would be for this to be in BIG FLASHING RED LETTERS AT TIME OF REGISTRATION but I realise that I am expecting too much. It certainly isn't a crime in my books to "out" WP editors, although I do find it a bit of an unhealthy obsession on the part of some individuals.

Now, it's very easy to get all these WP usernames mixed up - maybe Mr. FLIPSIDE was thinking of someone else?

Posted by: Somey

Here's another thought that struck me recently, and I just haven't gotten around to pointing it out...

Wikipedians' use of the term "outing" is, in itself, self-serving and shows a marked disrespect for the LGBT community.

Think about it: WP'ers are always misusing terms in self-serving, if not self-aggrandizing, ways. They do it because most of them are dangerously narcissistic, but that's another topic...

The term "outed" in the gay community means that an identifiable person has been revealed, against their wishes, to be gay. This is considered a bad thing for people to do because the person whose sexual orientation is so revealed may afterwards be subjected to discrimination or even physical violence by "gay-bashers."

Wikipedians use the term "outed" to mean the reverse of the accepted definition. In their case, an unidentifiable person, already known to be a Wikipedian, has their identity revealed on some website or other. The effect is essentially the same, because as everyone knows Wikipedians are all subjected to near-constant discrimination or even physical violence by WP-bashers.

This is the point, though: Traditionally, if you "outed" someone, you already knew who they were before revealing something about them that they didn't want revealed. If Wikipedians were using this term in the traditional sense, it would mean that someone who already knew one of their identities published the fact that the person is/was a Wikipedian. As in, "hey, did you know George over in Accounting edits Wikipedia? Oooh, outed!" Not the other way around.

By reversing the traditional usage, Wikipedia's screwed-up culture is basically saying that to be a Wikipedian is the "normal" state of being, and everything is just peachy until someone tries to embarrass or endanger you by revealing that you're actually a real person!

In effect, these Wikipedians are saying that being a real person is, to put it bluntly, gay. And that's disrespectful to LGBT people, isn't it?

I should certainly think so.

Posted by: Moulton

If you go into a university library and scan the books there, you will rarely find one written by an otherwise unidentified author using a pseudonym. In almost every case, the identity and professional credentials and affiliations of the author is readily available.

The Internet (including Wikipedia and many other sites) has inverted that familiar model.

That inversion might be reasonable for chat rooms and blogs, but not for scholarly and academic publications on the Internet, including those purporting to be of an encyclopedic nature.

Is it any wonder that Wikipedia is deprecated as an acceptable resource for most routine academic purposes?

Posted by: FLIPSIDE

QUOTE(Somey @ Sat 5th April 2008, 2:05am) *


Now, it's very easy to get all these WP usernames mixed up - maybe Mr. FLIPSIDE was thinking of someone else?


I don't think so, but I didn't save the conversation page to my files, so I will have to refind it. The statement about Risker was not "Risker as Risker" saying what he thinks, but rather Risker in a group setting, chiming in on a discussion between Ryan Postlethwaite, Michael Noda, and Kelly Martin each trying to lather themselves up while maintaining a reactive posture. Ryan was talking about punishing people on wiki for their off wiki activities. Kelly Martin was talking about entrapping people for computer trespass (e.g. a restraining order scam). Michael Noda was agreeing, and Risker was pontificating about perhaps doing outreach to the local law enforcement resources.

Something like this happened before in a discussion with AudeVivere who on the one hand said that she stays out of revert wars to avoid "stalkers" but threw down a caveat that stalkers are real people on WP who should not be tolerated. Since she works for a MAPS program, I take it seriously. I think I also got some of Risker's statements from the Wiki-en list. Risker weighs in. He doesn't initiate. I'll try to find the conversations again. If he claims to not be against Admin outing, I am strongly inclined to accept a personal statement of his on that matter as the truth, should he give one directly.

It could be an inline citation error, perhaps someone knows more about this I could have sworn a read I better copy of the convo than this one:

http://www.archivesat.com/English_Wikipedia_new/thread4059540-5.htm

I think the purging of administrative discussion pages aids in the degradation of the information from these kinds of position statements.

Posted by: bluevictim

I had never heard the verb "out", the past tense verb form "outed", or the present participle form "outing" to refer to anything other than revealing that another person is gay until I saw it on Wikipedia.

Another thing:

QUOTE
Dmcdevit = Daniel McDevit, age 21, Scottsdale, Az, Green Party (MAGIC 28)


The name Daniel McDevit is wrong information. Daniel Brandt has established in another thread that the "D" in Dmcdevit actually stands for "Dominic", whiuch he signs his emails. His real name is Dominic McDevitt-Parks, and the information on hivemind has http://www.wikipedia-watch.org/hivemind.html#223. Long before Daniel had even stated this, I thought he was wrong after I received an e-mail from dmcdevit@[ISP REDACTED].net signed "Dominic", regarding something I told him on his talk page. Right then, I remembered that Dmcdevit was listed as "Daniel McDevit" on hivemind. I didn't say because he might have been trying to fake it, or there might have been some secrets Daniel or Dominic werebeing kept, or there was something I didn't know about.

Posted by: wikiwhistle

QUOTE(Somey @ Sat 5th April 2008, 8:49am) *


This is the point, though: Traditionally, if you "outed" someone, you already knew who they were before revealing something about them that they didn't want revealed. If Wikipedians were using this term in the traditional sense, it would mean that someone who already knew one of their identities published the fact that the person is/was a Wikipedian. As in, "hey, did you know George over in Accounting edits Wikipedia? Oooh, outed!" Not the other way around.

By reversing the traditional usage, Wikipedia's screwed-up culture is basically saying that to be a Wikipedian is the "normal" state of being, and everything is just peachy until someone tries to embarrass or endanger you by revealing that you're actually a real person!

In effect, these Wikipedians are saying that being a real person is, to put it bluntly, gay. And that's disrespectful to LGBT people, isn't it?

I should certainly think so.


lol, class! biggrin.gif

QUOTE(bluevictim @ Sat 5th April 2008, 3:36pm) *

I had never heard the verb "out", the past tense verb form "outed", or the present participle form "outing" to refer to anything other than revealing that another person is gay until I saw it on Wikipedia.


I've heard it used in the occult community , to 'out' someone as being a witch or whatever.

Or to come 'out of the broom closet.'

There are numerous sexual or identity proclivities people can come out as nowadays, such as Furries, transvestites, or fetishists of various kinds.

Maybe by calling it 'outing' , wikipedians are revealing how much of their sense of identity is invested in wikipedia, or maybe it is a genuine sexual orientation in some cases biggrin.gif

Posted by: Moulton

I have been in online discussion forums where the term 'outing' was adopted in the Wikipedia sense -- to reveal the real life identity of a screen name of a participant where most of the participants register under a pseudonymous login.

Very often the real life identities do become apparent within a long-running forum community, and the express or tacit agreement is to preserve anonymity where the individual requests or prefers it.

The difficult situation is where the individual inadvertently leaks their real life identity through one or more references to activities in their real life. If, over time, you are handed all the pieces of a jigsaw puzzle, and you assemble them into a big picture, is that aggregated and integrated information a 'secret' that one is obliged to keep?

Posted by: Random832

QUOTE(Somey @ Sat 5th April 2008, 7:05am) *

We got an e-mail from User:Risker a couple of days ago, which we didn't act on immediately because we're extremely lazy, but he had noticed his name on Mr. FLIPSIDE's list and that there was a notation beside it saying "Wants to make it an I.R.L. crime to out wikipedia editors."


Based on what I've seen here, FLIPSIDE's list is inaccurate enough so as to be just as likely to be disinformation as anything else.

Posted by: KStreetSlave

I find it hilarious that his list has, in close succession, the phrases "Cool Dudes" and "Gaylord Fascists". What, was this written in the early 90's? Where are the radical tubular bodacious people man? Cowabunga!

Posted by: Proabivouac

QUOTE(bluevictim @ Sat 5th April 2008, 2:36pm) *

I had never heard the verb "out", the past tense verb form "outed", or the present participle form "outing" to refer to anything other than revealing that another person is gay until I saw it on Wikipedia.

Another thing:

QUOTE
Dmcdevit = Daniel McDevit, age 21, Scottsdale, Az, Green Party (MAGIC 28)


The name Daniel McDevit is wrong information. Daniel Brandt has established in another thread that the "D" in Dmcdevit actually stands for "Dominic", whiuch he signs his emails. His real name is Dominic McDevitt-Parks, and the information on hivemind has http://www.wikipedia-watch.org/hivemind.html#223. Long before Daniel had even stated this, I thought he was wrong after I received an e-mail from dmcdevit@[ISP REDACTED].net signed "Dominic", regarding something I told him on his talk page. Right then, I remembered that Dmcdevit was listed as "Daniel McDevit" on hivemind. I didn't say because he might have been trying to fake it, or there might have been some secrets Daniel or Dominic werebeing kept, or there was something I didn't know about.

As you say, Brandt's information was wrong; his name is Dominic McDevitt-Parks.

Posted by: FLIPSIDE

QUOTE(Proabivouac @ Sat 5th April 2008, 2:43pm) *

As you say, Brandt's information was wrong; his name is Dominic McDevitt-Parks.


I will verify this and make a correction.
[...]
Verified. I have him on Larry Pieniazek's Facebook. Correcting now. In the future I will do double sourcework on Brandt's outings.

Posted by: Somey

QUOTE(KStreetSlave @ Sat 5th April 2008, 2:38pm) *
I find it hilarious that his list has, in close succession, the phrases "Cool Dudes" and "Gaylord Fascists". What, was this written in the early 90's? Where are the radical tubular bodacious people man? Cowabunga!

If we're talking about misuse of pejoratives, I'd be concerned about getting sued by the Gaylord Hotels people - they've obviously got tons of cash.

Posted by: wikiwhistle

Gaylord is a lovely name for a man- all the old-fashioned names are fashionable again, so why not this one? biggrin.gif

Posted by: Lar

QUOTE(wikiwhistle @ Sat 5th April 2008, 4:01pm) *

Gaylord is a lovely name for a man- all the old-fashioned names are fashionable again, so why not this one? biggrin.gif

The http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaylord_Building was one of my first articles of any length, so I agree.


QUOTE(FLIPSIDE @ Sat 5th April 2008, 3:52pm) *

Verified. I have him on Larry Pieniazek's Facebook. Correcting now. In the future I will do double sourcework on Brandt's outings.

Which friend of mine are you? Thought that information was only supposed to be available to friends... based on your actions you don't seem like my friend. smile.gif

Posted by: Yehudi

QUOTE(wikiwhistle @ Sat 5th April 2008, 9:01pm) *

Gaylord is a lovely name for a man- all the old-fashioned names are fashionable again, so why not this one? biggrin.gif

My grandfather had two aunts who were followers of Gayelord Hauser. Thy both lived well into their 90s so there may be something in it!


Posted by: Viridae

QUOTE(Lar @ Sun 6th April 2008, 7:39am) *

QUOTE(wikiwhistle @ Sat 5th April 2008, 4:01pm) *

Gaylord is a lovely name for a man- all the old-fashioned names are fashionable again, so why not this one? biggrin.gif

The http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaylord_Building was one of my first articles of any length, so I agree.


QUOTE(FLIPSIDE @ Sat 5th April 2008, 3:52pm) *

Verified. I have him on Larry Pieniazek's Facebook. Correcting now. In the future I will do double sourcework on Brandt's outings.

Which friend of mine are you? Thought that information was only supposed to be available to friends... based on your actions you don't seem like my friend. smile.gif


Depending on your privacy settings the names can be seen by anyone.

Posted by: jorge

QUOTE(Yehudi @ Sat 5th April 2008, 10:49pm) *

QUOTE(wikiwhistle @ Sat 5th April 2008, 9:01pm) *

Gaylord is a lovely name for a man- all the old-fashioned names are fashionable again, so why not this one? biggrin.gif

My grandfather had two aunts who were followers of Gayelord Hauser. Thy both lived well into their 90s so there may be something in it!

He actually chose to called Gayelord?

Posted by: Proabivouac

QUOTE(Lar @ Sat 5th April 2008, 9:39pm) *

QUOTE(FLIPSIDE @ Sat 5th April 2008, 3:52pm) *

Verified. I have him on Larry Pieniazek's Facebook. Correcting now. In the future I will do double sourcework on Brandt's outings.

Which friend of mine are you? Thought that information was only supposed to be available to friends... based on your actions you don't seem like my friend. smile.gif

We were talking about Dmcdevit, who is himself strongly in favor of outing on behalf of the Arbitration Committee (Heidi Wyss, to name just one of several examples.) Dominic McDevitt-Parks, a student at Reed College, Oregon (last I checked), does not deserve any privacy, because he doesn't afford others the same consideration.

Posted by: jorge

QUOTE(Proabivouac @ Sun 6th April 2008, 12:31am) *

We were talking about Dmcdevit, who is himself strongly in favor of outing on behalf of the Arbitration Committee (Heidi Wyss, to name just one of several examples.) Dominic McDevitt-Parks, a student at Reed College, Oregon (last I checked), does not deserve any privacy, because he doesn't afford others the same consideration.

Is this the same Dmcdevit who http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/Bah%C3%A1%27%C3%AD_Faith&diff=prev&oldid=8773986 and 8 edits later http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/September_11%2C_2001_attacks/archive1&diff=prev&oldid=9035646 subject of the famous blue sock incident?

Posted by: Proabivouac

QUOTE(jorge @ Sat 5th April 2008, 11:40pm) *

QUOTE(Proabivouac @ Sun 6th April 2008, 12:31am) *

We were talking about Dmcdevit, who is himself strongly in favor of outing on behalf of the Arbitration Committee (Heidi Wyss, to name just one of several examples.) Dominic McDevitt-Parks, a student at Reed College, Oregon (last I checked), does not deserve any privacy, because he doesn't afford others the same consideration.

Is this the same Dmcdevit who http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/Bah%C3%A1%27%C3%AD_Faith&diff=prev&oldid=8773986 and 8 edits later http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/September_11%2C_2001_attacks/archive1&diff=prev&oldid=9035646 subject of the famous blue sock incident?

Yes, Dominic McDevitt-Parks the former arbitrator who was forced to resign from the Arbitration Committee after his malicious scheming on IRC was exposed:
http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Bureaucratic_Fuck#Dmcdevit
My question is, what's with misspelling his own last name?

Posted by: FLIPSIDE

QUOTE(Lar @ Sat 5th April 2008, 4:39pm) *


Which friend of mine are you? Thought that information was only supposed to be available to friends... based on your actions you don't seem like my friend. smile.gif


Maybe you're the common man. I am certainly friend to the common man.

Posted by: Proabivouac

QUOTE(FLIPSIDE @ Sat 5th April 2008, 11:53pm) *

Maybe you're the common man. I am certainly friend to the common man.

You could prove this by leaving the common man off your list.

Posted by: dogbiscuit

QUOTE(Proabivouac @ Sun 6th April 2008, 12:48am) *

[My question is, what's with misspelling his own last name?

It could well be as simple as his IT dept. having a naming convention of first initial and the first n letters of the surname for user ids - a fairly common practice, and then you stick with it. I might be dbiscui under such a scheme, which has a rather nice French flavour, I feel. (Next time I need a user id...). My wife's IT dept. used the first 2 letters of the first name and up to 6 of the second, which makes for odder combinations.

Posted by: KStreetSlave

QUOTE(FLIPSIDE @ Sat 5th April 2008, 7:53pm) *

QUOTE(Lar @ Sat 5th April 2008, 4:39pm) *


Which friend of mine are you? Thought that information was only supposed to be available to friends... based on your actions you don't seem like my friend. smile.gif


Maybe you're the common man. I am certainly friend to the common man.


The common man cares about your vendetta to out Wikipedia editors? Somehow, I think not.

Posted by: Lar

QUOTE(Viridae @ Sat 5th April 2008, 5:55pm) *

Depending on your privacy settings the names can be seen by anyone.

Right. But I thought I had my settings set to prevent that. My daughter seems to be able to prevent me from seeing HER friends, after all. Mostly, I'm just curious here, is Facebook really leaky or TERRIFICALLY leaky?

Posted by: guy

QUOTE(Proabivouac @ Sun 6th April 2008, 12:48am) *

My question is, what's with misspelling his own last name?

I assume the idea was that his signature could be dmcdevit.t; you click on the second t to go straight to his talk page.

Posted by: WikiWatch

A fair number of user names and email addresses on your list are neither admins or donors to wikipedia. If the point of your list is to expose anonymity, why is your real name and email address absent from www.contextflexed.com? Seems to be a double standard there.




---

User:E-Kartoffel
Email:stu-unchained@tiscali.co.uk

Posted by: FLIPSIDE

QUOTE(WikiWatch @ Wed 23rd April 2008, 8:03pm) *

A fair number of user names and email addresses on your list are neither admins or donors to wikipedia. If the point of your list is to expose anonymity, why is your real name and email address absent from www.contextflexed.com? Seems to be a double standard there.

---

User:E-Kartoffel
Email:stu-unchained@tiscali.co.uk

That is abject bullshit. Not only am I listed in the beginning of the article, and as writer of the article, I am listed comprehensively in the editorial profile, and as the site owner.

On the other hand, a lot of Tiscali users are trying the hard way to find information that is clearly and shamelessly disclosed.

Posted by: thekohser

QUOTE(FLIPSIDE @ Tue 1st April 2008, 12:03pm) *

To whatever end, I now offer you the new WIKIPEDIA USER DATABASE at Haters Magazine

http://www.contextflexed.com/storywikipediaexposed.html


How am I on this list, but Calton isn't?

Oh, and if you're going to post my blog for Wikipedia Review, there's more self-identifying content at my other blog -- http://insidemr.blogspot.com.

Greg

Posted by: FLIPSIDE

QUOTE(thekohser @ Thu 24th April 2008, 10:15pm) *

QUOTE(FLIPSIDE @ Tue 1st April 2008, 12:03pm) *

To whatever end, I now offer you the new WIKIPEDIA USER DATABASE at Haters Magazine

http://www.contextflexed.com/storywikipediaexposed.html


How am I on this list, but Calton isn't?

Oh, and if you're going to post my blog for Wikipedia Review, there's more self-identifying content at my other blog -- http://insidemr.blogspot.com.

Greg

This is the first I have heard of Calton. As my userpage was destroyed before he could find it and molest in in the name of bad photography or some other nerd sigil, I haven't had the pleasure of being called a "greedster." If you want to out him, IM me.

--Never mind, I got it. Apparently Wikipedia is *not* Myspace, but it *is* a Flickr account.

Posted by: WikiWatch

QUOTE(FLIPSIDE @ Fri 25th April 2008, 11:16am) *

On the other hand, a lot of Tiscali users are trying the hard way to find information that is clearly and shamelessly disclosed.



Including editors who are not admins, are not donors, and have no previous dispute with you on a "hate" list is hardly going to win over the public to your crusade.





---

User:E-Kartoffel
Email:stu-unchained@tiscali.co.uk

Posted by: FLIPSIDE

QUOTE(WikiWatch @ Sat 26th April 2008, 12:09am) *

QUOTE(FLIPSIDE @ Fri 25th April 2008, 11:16am) *

On the other hand, a lot of Tiscali users are trying the hard way to find information that is clearly and shamelessly disclosed.



Including editors who are not admins, are not donors, and have no previous dispute with you on a "hate" list is hardly going to win over the public to your crusade.





---

User:E-Kartoffel
Email:stu-unchained@tiscali.co.uk


I don't hate the people on my list. I love them. They are like my little children.

Posted by: NVS

QUOTE(FLIPSIDE @ Sun 27th April 2008, 4:14pm) *



I don't hate the people on my list. I love them. They are like my little children.



o_O

Posted by: Phoenix-wiki

Please identify yourself FLIPSIDE, tell us your name, address and any other details of note. Otherwise quit trying to identify others who'd rather remain anonymous ya douch

Posted by: Milton Roe

QUOTE(KStreetSlave @ Sun 6th April 2008, 12:23am) *

The common man cares about your vendetta to out Wikipedia editors? Somehow, I think not.

The common man doesn't care about osteosarcoma until he or his family comes down with it.

Let the common man edit Wikipedia for a while, and odds are good that after he puts some real effort into it, one day you'll see him duly turn up here saying "WTF? I though it was a schoolyard, until I met a prison gang who beat me up and locked me out. Then I realized that the figurehead principal is a buffoon and there really aren't any qualified teachers. I guess I knew that, but everybody told me it was okay..."

To which we're all nodding and saying "If everybody told you it was okay to stick beans up your nose, would you do that, too? Come on, Einstein, let us show you where it's at." tongue.gif