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Complete with dull essay on why Wikipedia is apparently broken and failing.
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Oh yeah, I've been meaning to ask, what is your beef with him? Can someone else explain it to me?

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QUOTE(One @ Wed 15th July 2009, 4:17pm) *

Oh yeah, I've been meaning to ask, what is your beef with him? Can someone else explain it to me?

I should start by saying that I've never met Rootology in-person and I imagine that he's a fine person in real life.

Personally, I don't think I have a particular beef with Rootology, but I do take issue with some of his actions and certainly with his recent behavior.

There are a number of issues that I feel strongly about and I've even written essays about some of them. That said, when someone writes something and then links to it (in bright red) in their user signature, it starts to irritate me. The good ideas will stand for themselves and signatures are not a place to make advocacy statements. (Though obviously using user signatures in this way is not isolated to Rootology.) The way in which Rootology writes a project space page and then tries to shove it down the throats of everyone around him is what I find disturbing and annoying. From my perspective at least, it's as though he woke up one day, had the idea that there wasn't enough equality on Wikipedia, and then decided to shout about it as much as possible before becoming distracted by something else.

The same general themes were true of his "Paid editing" and "Wikipedia Committees" crusades. Once again, I don't have a problem with passionate advocacy. But there's a line and he seems to continually cross it. I don't know if it's Defender of the Wiki syndrome, but it certainly shares characteristics of it. This idea that he must step into every "hot" dispute (like paid editing or Wikipedia's governance) and try to own the discussion with a project space page that he whips up.

He has strong views about allowing anonymous user editing (he certainly isn't alone in this regard). I have no problem if people think that IPs shouldn't be able to edit Wikipedia; I don't agree, but I certainly don't hold it against those who do agree. That said, Rootology hijacked his user talk page (which exists for the primary purpose of user-to-user communication) with some JoshuaZ-related nonsense. I use "hijacked" here to mean that he blanked everything else and replaced the contents with his "Public response to repeated e-mail from JoshuaZ to me." To me, that's simply inappropriate and completely overdramatic. Not only did he replace the content of his user talk page, he then semi-protected the page without any particular demonstrable justification. That, combined with his previous stated views about anonymous editing, left a pretty bad taste in my mouth. He eventually moved the content to a subpage and unprotected his user talk page; why it didn't start on a subpage (or simply not be posted at all) is beyond me. I don't think any reasonable person would say that he's not trying to be dramatic by doing all of this.

And then there's the issue of "I'm going on break." Wikibreaks are completely healthy; I have no objection to them at all. What I do object to is anyone who claims to be taking one or about to take one who really isn't. To me, that's simply dishonest and isn't acceptable by any user. For weeks now, Rootology has been threatening to take a break. He put up the banners and then the excuses started. First it was that the A Man In Black case hadn't finished, then it was something else, then it was Yet Another Thing. For lack of a better phrase, "shit or get off the pot." If you look, for example, at this edit from June 15, you can see him clearly stating he's going to take a long break. It simply was not true. Within a week he was "back in the trenches." My mention of NoSeptember's "Leaving" essay was no mistake.

I wish there were a kinder way to put it, but his behavior lately is simply annoying. Others seem to find his behavior and edits insightful or helpful or they empathize with his messages; I don't. As I tried to make clear, it's not a particular beef. I'm sure he's a nice guy in real life, but his editing lately is simply irksome. I really wish he would stick to articles and avoid the project namespace altogether. I wish him all the best, whether or not he chooses to return to Wikipedia. I mean that.

A few final thoughts. As you coyly pointed out, I'm not free of drama myself, but I won't let that stop me from judging. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wink.gif) I also apologize for the length of this post.

There was one minor point I specifically didn't address. You mentioned a noindexing issue, but I don't know what you're referring to, so I can't comment. I'd be happy to respond if you can throw a link or some context in my direction. I can say, broadly, that using {{NOINDEX}} on a user talk page is like putting a Band-Aid on a cast—all user talk pages on the English Wikipedia are excluded from search engines unless a user explicitly asks for them to be indexed.
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QUOTE(MZMcBride @ Wed 15th July 2009, 4:35pm) *
...when someone writes something and then links to it (in bright red) in their user signature, it starts to irritate me.

It's only irritating if you disagree to the screed being linked to, isn't it? Also, "shove it down the throat" would mean leaving messages on people's talk pages demanding that they read whatever-it-is. Linking it from a signature is more like "waving it around in a flag-like fashion." Remember, these are metaphors.

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From my perspective at least, it's as though he woke up one day, had the idea that there wasn't enough equality on Wikipedia, and then decided to shout about it as much as possible before becoming distracted by something else.

Definitely your perspective - he's been on about that for a good two or three years, by my reckoning...

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The same general themes were true of his "Paid editing" and "Wikipedia Committees" crusades.

Ehh... The "paid editing" thing wasn't a crusade, it was more of an "everyone is fed up with the amount of hypocrisy we've seen on this issue" sort of affair. The business about the committees - that was his proposal to split the ArbCom into three parts, right? It may have been a crusade, but I actually thought it was a reasonable idea. And again, it shows that he's been trying to do something about WP governance issues for at least a year-and-a-half or so.

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This idea that he must step into every "hot" dispute (like paid editing or Wikipedia's governance) and try to own the discussion with a project space page that he whips up.

Not fair - he hardly steps into every such dispute, and you could just as easily be pissed because you didn't think of those things yourself, for all we know.

QUOTE
Rootology hijacked his user talk page (which exists for the primary purpose of user-to-user communication) with some JoshuaZ-related nonsense. I use "hijacked" here to mean that he blanked everything else and replaced the contents with his "Public response to repeated e-mail from JoshuaZ to me." To me, that's simply inappropriate and completely overdramatic...

Now, there I would strongly disagree. No amount of drama, fuss, or bother is too much when trying to point out to anyone still "on the fence" that JoshuaZ is a major detriment and danger to, well, pretty much all of Wikiland. If anything, he should have blanked and replaced the Main Page with it.

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("Wikibreaks")...What I do object to is anyone who claims to be taking one or about to take one who really isn't. To me, that's simply dishonest and isn't acceptable by any user.

They all do that, though. I'll admit it looks silly, etc., when they keep editing in spite of the notices, but it's so common I don't think anybody (other than you?) even pays attention anymore.

QUOTE
You mentioned a noindexing issue, but I don't know what you're referring to, so I can't comment. I'd be happy to respond if you can throw a link or some context in my direction.

Wasn't that about the fact that __NOINDEX__ doesn't work on articles, because some developer unilaterally decided it shouldn't? Or am I thinking of some other appallingly hypocritical imposed-vaporware thing?
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QUOTE(Somey @ Wed 15th July 2009, 6:41pm) *

QUOTE(MZMcBride @ Wed 15th July 2009, 4:35pm) *

You mentioned a noindexing issue, but I don't know what you're referring to, so I can't comment. I'd be happy to respond if you can throw a link or some context in my direction.

Wasn't that about the fact that __NOINDEX__ doesn't work on articles, because some developer unilaterally decided it shouldn't? Or am I thinking of some other appallingly hypocritical imposed-vaporware thing?

Having Barack Obama no longer appear in search engine esults because a vandal added __NOINDEX__ to some obscure template isn't a particularly good thing. If the subject of an article isn't notable, delete his or her biography. If there are persistent problems with an article, protect it or block the disrupters. Sweeping it under the mat is a silly solution.
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QUOTE(MZMcBride @ Wed 15th July 2009, 10:54pm) *
Having Barack Obama no longer appear in search engine esults because a vandal added __NOINDEX__ to some obscure template isn't a particularly good thing.

Not true!

Do we know for a fact that __NOINDEX__ in a template affects any page on which the template appears? If so, then it's a rather misguided, if not poor, implementation - it should only affect pages on which it appears in the actual WikiML for the page.

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If the subject of an article isn't notable, delete his or her biography.

If only they would... (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unhappy.gif)
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QUOTE(Somey @ Thu 16th July 2009, 12:08am) *

QUOTE(MZMcBride @ Wed 15th July 2009, 10:54pm) *

If the subject of an article isn't notable, delete his or her biography.

If only they would... (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unhappy.gif)
So true.
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QUOTE(LaraLove @ Thu 16th July 2009, 5:19am) *

QUOTE(Somey @ Thu 16th July 2009, 12:08am) *

QUOTE(MZMcBride @ Wed 15th July 2009, 10:54pm) *

If the subject of an article isn't notable, delete his or her biography.

If only they would... (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unhappy.gif)
So true.


It's one of those statements that everyone can agree on but really means nothing at all. Nobody wants to keep biographies about people they believe to be non-notable.
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QUOTE(everyking @ Wed 15th July 2009, 11:50pm) *
It's one of those statements that everyone can agree on but really means nothing at all. Nobody wants to keep biographies about people they believe to be non-notable.

Except the person(s) who wrote the article, the person(s) who are fans of the subject of the article, the person(s) who hate the subject of the article, the person(s) who went to the trouble of finding (or stealing) a photo to illustrate the article, and of course, User:JoshuaZ.

Have you been drinking, EK? I thought you were a tea-totaler. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/hmmm.gif)
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QUOTE(Somey @ Thu 16th July 2009, 1:56am) *

QUOTE(everyking @ Wed 15th July 2009, 11:50pm) *
It's one of those statements that everyone can agree on but really means nothing at all. Nobody wants to keep biographies about people they believe to be non-notable.

Except the person(s) who wrote the article, the person(s) who are fans of the subject of the article, the person(s) who hate the subject of the article, the person(s) who went to the trouble of finding (or stealing) a photo to illustrate the article, and of course, User:JoshuaZ.

Have you been drinking, EK? I thought you were a tea-totaler. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/hmmm.gif)
I think the key word in Everyking's post was "they believe to be". All of the people you list above presumably believe that the subject is notable.
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Posts in this topic
Nerd   Rootology retires  
Kato   There is a forum here called "Editors", ...  
Nerd   There is a forum here called "Editors",...  
Sarcasticidealist   There is a forum here called "Editors", ...  
A Horse With No Name   Who the f**k cares? The guy was a clown and this ...  
Nerd   Who the f**k cares? The guy was a clown and this...  
GlassBeadGame   Who the f**k cares? The guy was a clown and thi...  
A Horse With No Name   I care! You are a sweet person. No sarcasm...  
EricBarbour   He actually isn't a bad guy--he always seemed ...  
Kelly Martin   I dunno about the "always levelheaded" n...  
tarantino   Complete with dull essay on why Wikipedia is appa...  
Sarcasticidealist   He's still an admin, and he uses "we...  
sbrown   Whats he doing on Commons? Hes an admin there but ...  
LaraLove   Whats he doing on Commons? Hes an admin there but...  
jayvdb   [quote name='sbrown' post='184067' date='Wed 15th...  
Moulton   It's a good and thoughtful essay. It would be...  
everyking   Although Rootology has retired, he gets to keep th...  
GlassBeadGame   Although Rootology has retired, he gets to keep t...  
LaraLove   Although Rootology has retired, he gets to keep t...  
everyking   Although Rootology has retired, he gets to keep ...  
LaraLove   [quote name='LaraLove' post='184146' date='Wed 15...  
everyking   [quote name='LaraLove' post='184146' date='Wed 1...  
MZMcBride   Seeing Rootology leave immediately brought to mind...  
Apathetic   fully protected his talk page (with a dramatic p...  
Nerd   Seeing Rootology leave immediately brought to min...  
MBisanz   [quote name='MZMcBride' post='184170' date='Wed 1...  
Shalom   And yeah, he blanked his editor review and RFA an...  
One   MZMcBride and Everyking criticize Rootology for be...  
MZMcBride   MZMcBride and Everyking criticize Rootology for b...  
everyking   MZMcBride and Everyking criticize Rootology for b...  
LaraLove   Oh, let's be real. It was dramatic. And he...  
A Horse With No Name   Oh, let's be real. It was dramatic. And he...  
tarantino   I second that. And thank goodness it was some du...  
LaraLove   Oh yeah, I've been meaning to ask, what is yo...  
One   [quote name='One' post='184197' date='Wed 15th Ju...  
gelugor   This isn't the first time Rootology has done...  
MZMcBride   [quote name='One' post='184197' date='Wed 15th J...  
One   I'll try to refrain from answering the questi...  
gelugor   [quote name='One' post='184200' date='Wed 15th Ju...  
Apathetic   Just wondering because MZM ... (along with Xeno)...  
One   It's pretty simple (and has nothing specifica...  
Apathetic   Out of curiosity, how many other admins with sem...  
No one of consequence   Just wondering because MZM was also all over Root...  
Apathetic   Interesting. [off topic] Xeno just un-semi-prot...  
No one of consequence   I always keep a close eye on pages I unprotect. ...  
Apathetic   I always keep a close eye on pages I unprotect. ...  
One   Wasn't that about the fact that __NOINDEX__ ...  
Milton Roe   It's one of those statements that everyone ca...  
MZMcBride   [quote name='MZMcBride' post='184282' date='Wed 1...  
sbrown   Unless we force users to deal with the content, t...  
Milton Roe   Having Barack Obama no longer appear in search en...  
Milton Roe   this edit from June 15, you can see him clearly s...  
MZMcBride   [quote name='MZMcBride' post='184225' date='Wed 1...  
One   I guess I might have found Rootology annoying if...  
LaraLove   <snip> The Wiki's plan can work withou...  
One   [quote name='One' post='184275' date='Wed 15th Ju...  
MBisanz   [quote name='LaraLove' post='184277' date='Thu 16...  
Apathetic   Indeed, J.delanoy in his vandal-whacking exuberanc...  
Sarcasticidealist   Indeed, J.delanoy in his vandal-whacking exuberanc...  
MZMcBride   Indeed, J.delanoy in his vandal-whacking exuberan...  
Sarcasticidealist   Elsewhere on WR you recently posted that you'd...  
Apathetic   No worries re: the remark. [quote name='Apathet...  
Sarcasticidealist   Then we really ought to be changing the motto of t...  
Apathetic   Hell, there are plenty of indefinitely semi-prote...  
One   Then we really ought to be changing the motto of ...  
MZMcBride   Then we really ought to be changing the motto of...  
Sarcasticidealist   I think the point about admins setting protection ...  
Apathetic   [quote name='MZMcBride' post='184414' date='Thu 1...  
A Horse With No Name   It wasn't the case with the indef semi of mine...  
A Horse With No Name   Indeed, J.delanoy in his vandal-whacking exuberan...  
Apathetic   Indeed, J.delanoy in his vandal-whacking exubera...  
MBisanz   Besides, in terms of admin actions, J.delanoy is ...  
Apathetic   [quote name='Apathetic' post='184343' date='Thu 1...  
Sarcasticidealist   Yes, we definitely need more admins willing to go ...  
Apathetic   [quote name='Apathetic' post='184350' date='Thu 1...  
One   ...not semi-protected anymore [url=http://en.wiki...  
Apathetic   [quote name='Apathetic' post='184333' date='Thu 1...  
MZMcBride   [quote name='MZMcBride' post='184267' date='Thu 1...  
LaraLove   I agree with that last point. Should be a limit o...  
Kato   Root has a lot of ideas and energy. Most of these ...  
One   Personally, I find horses big, hairy, and terrifyi...  
A Horse With No Name   Personally, I find horses big, hairy, and terrify...  
Floydsvoid   I'm not in a position to complain, but can...  
LaraLove   [quote name='LaraLove' post='184277' date='Thu 16...  
One   [quote name='One' post='184330' date='Thu 16th Ju...  
LaraLove   ...fun of open editing fundamentalists. Like I sa...  
One   ...fun of open editing fundamentalists. Like I s...  
Casliber   Then we really ought to be changing the motto of...  
Malleus   [quote name='One' post='184410' date='Fri 17th Ju...  
Moulton   I dunno about ANYONECANEDIT, but WP is the soap op...  
carbuncle   As Hero-Goat Dramas go, there are endless opportu...  
A Horse With No Name   Say, what happened to Rootology? I thought this wa...  
sbrown   Say, what happened to Rootology? I thought this w...  
LaraLove   [quote name='LaraLove' post='184471' date='Fri 17...  
Zoloft   Say, what happened to Rootology? I thought this w...  


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