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The idiocy and the irony -
     
 
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> The idiocy and the irony, banning nonsense goes full circle
Kato
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A few months ago, I was arguing here with Slim about how, back in the old days, she and others were targeting just about anyone as being a LaRouchie, and I described the chaos that witchhunt had caused. I especially noted an incident when herself and long time user (and another anti-LaRouche figure) 172 (T-C-L-K-R-D) discussed banning a totally innocent guy as a "New LaRouche editor" back in 2007.

Here is my post, Slim simply batted this incident off by not addressing it specifically - claiming that people weren't banned as LaRouchies without good reason.

QUOTE(Kato @ Sun 12th April 2009, 6:07am) *

Not necessarily so. The whole LaRouche vs anti-LaRouche thing was a farce that had spilled out all over Wikipedia. Wholly unrelated people were getting threatened by Wikipedia powerplayers as "LaRouchies" on a regular basis. People saw it with their own eyes and have not been swayed by Hersch at this site. It was outrageous, and one of my first posts at this site was to highlight one such offense.

In April, 2007, an editor went to SlimVirgin and Willbeback and wrote this about Mbhiii (T-C-L-K-R-D) :

QUOTE(User:172)
New LaRouche editor

This looks quite familar now. [10] Like the last HK sockpuppet blocked by SlimVirgin, HonourableSchoolboy, this account has been editing articles that appear in my recent contributions history or are linked to my userpage. Sigh. 172 | Talk 19:59, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
Thanks. Sadly, by now I can spot LaRouche propaganda from a mile away. 172 | Talk 20:23, 27 April 2007 (UTC)


The message to SlimVirgin has since been deleted. But the spirit of the message is typical. The accused had nothing to do with LaRouche, and his edits had nothing to do with LaRouche. Yet he was immediately attacked as a "New LaRouche" editor.

A group of editors, led by SlimVirgin, and accompanied by anti-LaRouche campaigners Chip Berlet and Dennis King (whose Conflicts Of Interest were never questioned) were allowed to treat Wikipedia like an anti-LaRouche version of the McCarthy witch-hunts. Thus creating massive bad feelings and subverting the whole culture of the place.


Well here comes the most ridiculous development yet. Having spent years orchestrating witch-hunts with Slim and Will against LaRouchies, former admin User:172 has himself been indefinitely banned by some lunatic administrator - on the declaration that he is the pro-LaRouche renegade Cognition (T-C-L-K-R-D) based on "checkuser evidence".

So either User:172 was the most brilliant stooge account ever (going back to 2002), or WP's checkuser facitilities are so incompetent, it has convicted the Witchfinder General of being a witch! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)

And to cap it off. Slim was right in the mix during these latest banning discussions which nailed 172!
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Kato   The idiocy and the irony  
Malleus   Who is this LaRouche character, and why should I c...  
Kato   Who is this LaRouche character, and why should I ...  
A Horse With No Name   Who is this LaRouche character, and why should I ...  
gomi   So either User:172 was the most brilliant stooge a...  
No one of consequence   So either User:172 was the most brilliant stooge ...  
Kato   [quote name='gomi' post='192782' date='Sat 5th Se...  
No one of consequence   Get serious please. 172 was a liberal historian w...  
One   Get serious please. 172 was a liberal historian w...  
Kato   [quote name='Kato' post='192794' date='Sat 5th Se...  
One   The only other credible explaination is that Co...  
Kato   [quote name='Kato' post='192802' date='Sat 5th Se...  
Somey   I guess, on reflection and reviewing Cognitions...  
nobs   I guess, on reflection and reviewing Cognitions...  
Herschelkrustofsky   Get serious please. 172 was a liberal historian w...  
One   Well here comes the most ridiculous development y...  
Kato   [quote name='Kato' post='192778' date='Sat 5th Se...  
One   I remember 172 vaguely, and surveying his work ref...  
Somey   Possibilities suggested so far: 1) Cognition creat...  
Lar   Don't forget the one where 172 and Cognition ...  
Kato   [quote name='Somey' post='192808' date='Sat 5th S...  
Herschelkrustofsky   No. The most likely explanation (amazing as it so...  
Somey   First of all, the WP database definitely is f**cke...  
Kato   User:172 is clearly British, however No, 172 i...  
Somey   User:172 is clearly British, however No, 172 is (w...  
Kato   [quote name='Kato' post='192844' date='Sat 5th Se...  
dtobias   I will ignore. Convincing Wikipedia criticism is ...  
Somey   I would disagree strongly there. No criticism tha...  
Abd   ... something more erudite-sounding, like "hi...  
Kato   This is interesting because Cognition [url=http:/...  
LessHorrid vanU   ... Well I'll criticise in my way, you in y...  
One   You know, maybe it is an outrageous coincidence. ...  
everyking   Everyking: do you think potentially-compromised a...  
No one of consequence   First of all, [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/inde...  
tarantino   [quote name='Somey' post='192839' date='Sat 5th S...  
MBisanz   [quote name='Somey' post='192839' date='Sat 5th ...  
everyking   He was. He didn't reply. This case is far t...  
One   [quote name='No one of consequence' post='192885'...  
gomi   Everyking, did you know that this 172/Cognition e...  
Herschelkrustofsky   [quote name='One' post='192896' date='Sat 5th Sep...  
TungstenCarbide   [quote name='gomi' post='192899' date='Sat 5th Se...  
Kato   This case is far too simple for all this drama. ...  
No one of consequence   What you should have done is either email 172 and...  
Peter Damian   I agree it would have been less dramatic to block...  
No one of consequence   I agree it would have been less dramatic to bloc...  
Kato   Ok, so there are three options: [b]Bad hand / Blac...  
No one of consequence   Ok, so there are three options: [*][b]Bad hand / ...  
One   [*][b]Geographical coincidence. As both 172 and C...  
Kato   [list] [*][b]Geographical coincidence. As both 17...  
One   [quote name='Kato' post='192927' date='Sun 6th S...  
Kato   [quote name='One' post='192935' date='Sun 6th Se...  
No one of consequence   But don't random people share "residenti...  
Kelly Martin   Residential IPs are assigned one to one. For as l...  
gomi   [quote name='Kato' post='192945' date='Sun 6th Sep...  
Kelly Martin   Some dude selling badges edited WP on my current h...  
Kato   Some dude selling badges edited WP on my current ...  
Ceoil   Who knows. To be fair to elaborate sock puppeteers...  
MBisanz   [quote name='Kato' post='192938' date='Sun 6th Se...  
No one of consequence   What does this mean though, "residential...  
Kato   What you should have done is either email 172 an...  
Kelly Martin   We did email him, he did not reply. It's Labor...  
One   You've managed to convince me that you're...  
GlassBeadGame   The puppet-provocateur theory makes sense to me. ...  
Kato   The puppet-provocateur theory makes sense to me. ...  
Herschelkrustofsky   [quote name='Herschelkrustofsky' post='192830' da...  
No one of consequence   I am now inclined to believe that the "new...  
Kato   [quote name='Somey' post='192839' date='Sat 5th S...  
Kato   I've just examined the back and forth at [url...  
taiwopanfob   Here the simpler technical explanation points to a...  
Kato   I remember 172 vaguely, and surveying his work re...  
Kato   Slim reckons the black ops / stalking horse theory...  
One   It still looks more credible than Slim's beli...  
Hell Freezes Over   Cognition's behaviour looks typical LaRouche ...  
GlassBeadGame   Cognition's behaviour looks typical LaRouche...  
Kato   "Chip Berlet is a 5 cent thug in a long-rang...  
Random832   "Chip Berlet is a 5 cent thug in a long-range...  
Herschelkrustofsky   Cognition's behaviour looks typical LaRouche ...  
It's the blimp, Frank   Is it possible that there is a huge technical glit...  
MBisanz   I don't know anything about the current player...  
Newyorkbrad   (background snipped) Well here comes the most rid...  
Somey   So it just seems to me that it might have been bet...  
Kelly Martin   So it just seems to me that it might have been bet...  
everyking   If Cognition is the creepy-crazy LaRouchian who w...  
Kelly Martin   So you're saying you actually saw a LaRouchite...  
MBisanz   So you're saying you actually saw a LaRouchit...  
Cla68   [quote name='Kelly Martin' post='192897' date='Su...  
Herschelkrustofsky   So you're saying you actually saw a LaRouchit...  
TungstenCarbide   If Cognition is the creepy-crazy LaRouchian who we...  
Somey   For more background, there's this thread, whic...  
Kato   The plot thickens. Someone has corrected me on th...  
Somey   This is interesting because Cognition [url=http://...  
The Joy   Is there anyway for the CheckUsers to look at data...  
Grep   There's another way in which CU results can gi...  
Somey   There's another way in which CU results can gi...  
Kato   If anything, it's surprising Hersfold didn...  
everyking   From my perspective, the most ludicrous aspect of ...  
GlassBeadGame   From my perspective, the most ludicrous aspect of...  
One   You and SlimVirgin seem to disagree about what is ...  
Krimpet   Assuming some folks at a meetup brought their lapt...  
MBisanz   Assuming some folks at a meetup brought their lap...  
Kato   172 said he was employed at a college in St Peters...  
No one of consequence   172 said he was employed at a college in St Peter...  
Kato   One appears to be residential (belongs to a commo...  
Moulton   Why would an IP necessarily be marked as residenti...  
No one of consequence   Why would an IP necessarily be marked as resident...  
Kelly Martin   Personally I'm leaning toward the "hijack...  
bambi   I heard a bit on the radio the other day about AT...  
One   Two identical IPs on two services and no other IPs...  
Kelly Martin   Incidentally, I don't recall anyone here defen...  
One   It's not that I think you're wrong; I jus...  
everyking   It's not that I think you're wrong; I ju...  
One   What could be the motive for taking over an accou...  
everyking   What could be the motive for taking over an acco...  
Kato   [quote name='One' post='192981' date='Sun 6th Sep...  
No one of consequence   My problem is that you people keep spouting off a...  
Kelly Martin   The second IP is clearly non-residential with semi...  
No one of consequence   The second IP is clearly non-residential with sem...  
bambi   There's a difference between unlabeled and la...  
Kelly Martin   There's a difference between unlabeled and lab...  
Achromatic   [quote name='No one of consequence' post='192973'...  
Kelly Martin   In my examples, an IP address "belonging...  
gomi   My fallback theory, if the hijack theory proves fa...  
Herschelkrustofsky   LaRouchians are not known for their commitment t...  
Lar   My problem is that you people keep spouting off a...  
Kato   Incidentally, I don't recall anyone here defe...  
One   I mentioned this before, but when you sort their e...  
Kato   I mentioned this before, but when you sort their ...  
One   I'm not sure there are enough edits by Cognit...  
bambi   Here's a solution to replace Checkuser: Chine...  
Herschelkrustofsky   Although I don't think a Will Beback or someon...  
Herschelkrustofsky   I'm looking over the headers on some emails I ...  
Kato   I'm looking over the headers on some emails I...  
Herschelkrustofsky   I'm looking over the headers on some emails ...  
Kato   [quote name='Kato' post='193054' date='Mon 7th Se...  
carbuncle   I'm looking over the headers on some emails I...  
MBisanz   [quote name='Herschelkrustofsky' post='193050' da...  
Herschelkrustofsky   [quote name='Herschelkrustofsky' post='193050' d...  
Kelly Martin   Received: from [71.101.207.204] by web38309.mail....  
MBisanz   Received: from [71.101.207.204] by web38309.mail...  
Random832   I'm looking over the headers on some emails I...  
One   Are you sure the "originating IP" isn...  
Kato   After going over everything yet again, I can only ...  
A Horse With No Name   The irony is that LaRouche gets more attention on ...  
Guido den Broeder   I have no idea who this LaRouche dude is, even tho...  
everyking   While 172 has so far said nothing, Cognition did d...  
Kato   In late 2005, Cognition writes to Raul: he writ...  
MBisanz   In late 2005, Cognition [url=http://en.wikipedia....  
Kato   Raul hasn't edited since September 1 and Phil...  
TungstenCarbide   172 was extremely bad tempered but highly articula...  
Herschelkrustofsky   172 was extremely bad tempered but highly articul...  
One   Y'know, [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index...  
Kato   Y'know, [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/inde...  
Kelly Martin   It seems that you, Hersfold and Thatcher are under...  
Kato   [quote name='Kato' post='193193' date='Tue 8th Se...  
One   And just because I mention universities, it doesn...  
Kelly Martin   And yeah, the University of South Florida is certa...  
Kato   And yeah, the University of South Florida is cert...  
No one of consequence   And yeah, the University of South Florida is cert...  
Kato   [quote name='Kato' post='193201' date='Tue 8th Se...  
Lar   Whatever. I am checkuser, hear me roar. I am bo...  
tarantino   [quote name='One' post='193205' date='Tue 8th Sep...  
MBisanz   [quote name='One' post='193205' date='Tue 8th Se...  
Random832   I still don't understand this "IPs were n...  
dtobias   Or maybe this time the checkusers are right after ...  
Kelly Martin   Or maybe this time the checkusers are right after ...  
TungstenCarbide   [quote name='dtobias' post='193293' date='Tue 8th...  
MBisanz   [quote name='dtobias' post='193293' date='Tue 8t...  
TungstenCarbide   I already linked that several sections up. Good f...  
Lar   I already linked that several sections up. Good ...  
Random832   [quote name='dtobias' post='193293' date='Tue 8th...  
Kato   Whose problem is it if you think that making a bl...  
Kato   Update: There's a direct link between Cognitio...  
One   Update: There's a direct link between Cogniti...  
everyking   Apparently amidst all this nobody else has had the...  
Hell Freezes Over   Snowspinner has confirmed that Cognition was at th...  
The Joy   Snowspinner has confirmed that Cognition was at t...  
everyking   Snowspinner has confirmed that Cognition was at t...  
One   Surely anyone can accept that there's enough ...  
everyking   [quote name='everyking' post='193420' date='Wed 9...  
No one of consequence   So how far do these IP records go back? Are we sa...  
everyking   So how far do these IP records go back? Are we s...  
No one of consequence   Thanks for not answering the question. There...  
Kato   Let's say he never comes back and never even...  
One   No, but there is good reason to listen to 172...  
everyking   Of course not, but that tag was a different quest...  
No one of consequence   Snowspinner has confirmed that Cognition was at ...  
Kato   Snowspinner has confirmed that Cognition was at t...  
Hell Freezes Over   [quote name='Hell Freezes Over' post='193407' dat...  
Grep   Apart from the (rather likely) possibilities of pu...  
Random832   Apart from the (rather likely) possibilities of p...  
Grep   ... the confluence in a single pair of IP address...  
Random832   Anyway, isn't 172's IP address supposed to...  
MBisanz   As I have said before, I really do not see the poi...  
Kelly Martin   It's also possible that an account could be co...  
MBisanz   It's also possible that an account could be c...  
TungstenCarbide   It's also possible that an account could be c...  
Kelly Martin   Can't checkusers save data and then manually c...  
No one of consequence   Last I heard the checkuser history was around 35 ...  
Kelly Martin   So, a current checkuser, who is authorized to see...  
trenton   So, how much of an affirmative duty do you believ...  
Kelly Martin   There's nothing terribly secret about the leng...  
Random832   I know the checkuser data period was 90 days at on...  
Kelly Martin   :hmmm: Aren't sites supposed to have a privacy...  
Herschelkrustofsky   [quote name='Random832' post='193484' date='Wed 9...  
CharlotteWebb   I had heard that it was 90 days as well, but I...  
Random832   An earlier thread here came to essentially the sam...  
Herschelkrustofsky   But unless you actually used the AOL browser ther...  
Kato   [quote name='CharlotteWebb' post='193539' date='T...  
Appleby   :hmmm: Aren't sites supposed to have a privac...  
Kato   [quote name='Kato' post='193592' date='Thu 10th ...  
Herschelkrustofsky   SlimVirgin can't oversight. I think he mean...  
Kato   [quote name='Appleby' post='193644' date='Fri 11t...  
No one of consequence   The dual identity is unrealistic because 172 was ...  
Random832   We're no closer to finding out the truth. But ...  
A Horse With No Name   Not my immediate thought, but all bets are off at...  
Herschelkrustofsky   Will Beback created that list. Actually, SlimVir...  
Kato   I looked at one of your supposed socks at random a...  
It's the blimp, Frank   It's funny that you should mention that bit ab...  
Herschelkrustofsky   No LaRouche activist would say something like ...  
dtobias   Nice of Slim to demonstrate that there are instanc...  
CharlotteWebb   Nice of Slim to demonstrate that there are instan...  
Herschelkrustofsky   Will Beback, who speaks for the "old cabal,...  
CharlotteWebb   Will Beback, who speaks for the "old cabal,...  
Herschelkrustofsky   Actually he said "A recent checkuser finding...  
Peter Damian   I'm resurrecting this thread for reasons which...  
Heat   I'm resurrecting this thread for reasons whic...  
Peter Damian   Heh. Curiously, the doc doesn't have a wikipe...  
Herschelkrustofsky   I am also intrigued whether the man in the film, ...  
Peter Damian   [quote name='Peter Damian' post='300452' date='Su...  
Heat   Heh. Curiously, the doc doesn't have a wikip...  
Peter Damian   See also this qKxjvroP0jQ  
Herschelkrustofsky   I had extensive encounters with both 172 and Cogni...  
mbz1   I had extensive encounters with both 172 and Cogn...  
Herschelkrustofsky   But why 172 has never responded to emails that a...  
Peter Damian   However, in 2009, someone showed up at the Wikip...  
mbz1   BTW the story of 172 is not unique to wikipedia ...  
Herschelkrustofsky   The 2009 version of Cognition uses dry, neutral la...  
Peter Damian   The 2009 version of Cognition uses dry, neutral l...  
Heat   [quote name='Herschelkrustofsky' post='300498' da...  
DiotimaPhil   Here's the man himself. Cognition talking abou...  
TungstenCarbide   Here's the man himself. Cognition talking abou...  
DiotimaPhil   Cognition at a Wikipedia meetup with Jimmy Wales i...  
DiotimaPhil   Well, if you want to know the full truth behind th...  
Herschelkrustofsky   Was the Review your first introduction to this sto...  
DiotimaPhil   Was the Review your first introduction to this st...  
everyking   I would certainly be interested to hear about what...  


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