Everybody Draw Mohammed Day, I'm shocked, shocked to find drama on Wikipedia Options

[Eva Destruction]

Three-to-one-on that this argument results in (1) someone being blocked, (2) someone saying "do you know who I am?", (3) someone whining on Jimmy Wales's talkpage and/or (4) a mention in the Register. You heard it here first.

[Moulton]

I would go farther than Dan, to point out that religions are not the only variety of belief systems that people adopt on faith, without regard for the diligent epistemology that would confirm or refute the scientific accuracy of the beliefs in question.

It is often noted, for example, that Wikipedia is a cult which is not exactly a religion, but neither is it a well-grounded system of beliefs (or philosophical principles) and associated derivative practices.

The anachronistic and dysfunctional governance model of Wikipedia is a notable example of a failed system of beliefs and derivative practices.

[Herschelkrustofsky]

I would go farther than Dan, to point out that religions are not the only variety of belief systems that people adopt on faith, without regard for the diligent epistemology that would confirm or refute the scientific accuracy of the beliefs in question.

{{fact}}

You obviously have not acquainted yourself with scholars such as Nicholas of Kues.

[Moulton]

You obviously have not acquainted yourself with scholars such as Nicholas of Kues.

Indeed I am not. But could you say more about his role in promoting diligent epistemology of arbitrary beliefs systems (including scientific beliefs, religious beliefs, secular political beliefs, and popular cultural beliefs)?

[Kwork]

You obviously have not acquainted yourself with scholars such as Nicholas of Kues.

Indeed I am not. But could you say more about his role in promoting diligent epistemology of arbitrary beliefs systems (including scientific beliefs, religious beliefs, secular political beliefs, and popular cultural beliefs)?

Islam may be the world's largest religion, and is certainly one of the largest. Apparently1.3-1.5 billion according to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_world
Some of Islamic countries are very wealthy also. Why do you think that is "Speaking Trash to the Powerless"?

[GlassBeadGame]

You obviously have not acquainted yourself with scholars such as Nicholas of Kues.

Indeed I am not. But could you say more about his role in promoting diligent epistemology of arbitrary beliefs systems (including scientific beliefs, religious beliefs, secular political beliefs, and popular cultural beliefs)?

Islam may be the world's largest religion, and is certainly one of the largest. Apparently1.3-1.5 billion according to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_world
Some of Islamic countries are very wealthy also. Why do you think that is "Speaking Trash to the Powerless"?

I live in America. More than 99% of the users of this site and en.WP are from the the English speaking world and Europe. Muslims are a small and hard pressed minority in our society. They are easy to pick on and vilify. Almost no one will speak up if you do. I'm speaking up for my neighbors and countrymen who are Muslims.

[Milton Roe]

I live in America. More than 99% of the users of this site and en.WP are from the the English speaking world and Europe. Muslims are a small and hard pressed minority in our society. They are easy to pick on and vilify. Almost no one will speak up if you do. I'm speaking up for my neighbors and countrymen who are Muslims.

Most Muslims in America are Indonesians. Most Arab-Americans are Catholics. The small minority of Arab-Muslims in America tend to be looked at with some suspicion by Americans these days, but since nearly all the people who've been trying to blow up Americans this last quarter of a century (from La Belle discotheque to Faisal Shahzad) have been Arabic Muslims, it's not really surprizing. I'm not really sure American can be accused of "starting it" by supporting Israel. This does not excuse killing of Americans, and especially civilian Americans. Muslims aren't good citizens of France, either, and so you can't just make anti-zionism an excuse for any bunch of Muslim emigrants acting-badly.

Defending much of Islam is a losing battle. As a religion it's even more narrowminded and unforgiving than Southern Baptistism, and that's saying a lot. And its attitude toward women is some of the worst to be found in a modern religion. Frankly, a lot of it is shit (see the Wahabits and Taliban for how bad Muslim conservatives can be), and what's left is superstition. You have to look very hard to find the diamonds in its rough (okay, it has a good attitude toward treatment of guests and strangers, and it's color-blind, at least toward Muslims). But overall, there is no reason to have any great respect for it (the religion). If its followers don't wake up and perform some major surgery on it, rather like the Roman Catholics had to do when faced with modern astronomy and the reformation, the conservative and fundamentalist version of Islam is going to be source of a great deal more suffering for many of its conservative believers. The world's patience for these people has long run out. When the Arabs' oil runs out and money stops being diverted to the most nutty branches of "Islam" they're going to be even more of a world of hurt. And deserve it.

It's not a bigotry thing-- the liberal Muslims are fine with me. It's a "recognize the asshole" thing. The conservative Muslims (of which there are very many- they are NOT a tiny minority) are not fine with me.

[thekohser]

Most Muslims in America are Indonesians. Most Arab-Americans are Catholics.

You got any stats on that nonsense, Milton?

[Milton Roe]

Most Muslims in America are Indonesians. Most Arab-Americans are Catholics.

You got any stats on that nonsense, Milton?

You got any stats that say otherwise?

http://www.prejudiceinstitute.org/Factshee...bAmericans.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_American
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ethnic_c...m_Americans.png

[thekohser]

Most Muslims in America are Indonesians. Most Arab-Americans are Catholics.

You got any stats on that nonsense, Milton?

You got any stats that say otherwise?

http://www.prejudiceinstitute.org/Factshee...bAmericans.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_American
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ethnic_c...m_Americans.png

This was an enjoyable exercise for me, Milton. Thank you for proving to me that Wikipedia and the "prejudiceinstitute.org" are biased and unreliable sources for your musings.

Just to give one example, your second link points to a Wikipedia article whose "Religious background" portion is drawn from the Arab American Institute. If you go to the linked source, you'll see that the AAI is citing a 2002 "Zogby International" survey of Arab Americans. Do you know who Dr. James J. Zogby is? He is the President and co-founder of the Arab American Institute. His study consisted of samples of people from only eight selected Arab nations (including the great Arab state of Israel -- that would help explain all the Jewish Arabs that Wikipedia has documented), even though there are 24 countries in the Arab League and the AAI itself notes that there are 22 Arab countries. Do you find it representative of religious distribution that a self-designed and self-managed survey excluded (out of the top 10 largest Arab countries) Arab Americans from the 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 7th, 8th, 9th, and 10th largest Arab countries?

Another Wikipedia source was this precious number entitled "...And What About Arab Christians?" In it, we can learn that:

• "Many Americans ignore that Arab Christians exit (sic)."
• "About 80% of the American Arabs are Christians" (that's odd, Wikipedia says 63%, based on Zogby's eight-country poll)
• "The Americans and particularly the Christians among them are called to do the following:" (followed by a 5-point plan of action for all Americans, including "support the Christians of the Middle East")

Milton, you often impress me with your knowledge of things. Other times, you come off like a total ding-dong. This one was one of your ding-dong moments.

[Milton Roe]

Most Muslims in America are Indonesians. Most Arab-Americans are Catholics.

You got any stats on that nonsense, Milton?

You got any stats that say otherwise?

http://www.prejudiceinstitute.org/Factshee...bAmericans.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_American
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ethnic_c...m_Americans.png

This was an enjoyable exercise for me, Milton. Thank you for proving to me that Wikipedia and the "prejudiceinstitute.org" are biased and unreliable sources for your musings.

Just to give one example, your second link points to a Wikipedia article whose "Religious background" portion is drawn from the Arab American Institute. If you go to the linked source, you'll see that the AAI is citing a 2002 "Zogby International" survey of Arab Americans. Do you know who Dr. James J. Zogby is? He is the President and co-founder of the Arab American Institute. His study consisted of samples of people from only eight selected Arab nations (including the great Arab state of Israel -- that would help explain all the Jewish Arabs that Wikipedia has documented), even though there are 24 countries in the Arab League and the AAI itself notes that there are 22 Arab countries. Do you find it representative of religious distribution that a self-designed and self-managed survey excluded (out of the top 10 largest Arab countries) Arab Americans from the 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 7th, 8th, 9th, and 10th largest Arab countries?

Oh, yeah? What is your evidence for THAT? As you note, the AAI very well knows who Arab Americans are, and uses origin from the Arab league countries mostly to define it. BTW, the "size" (population) of Arab countries in the Arab league has little to do with Arabic descent representation in America. For example, most Arabs in the US are Lebanese, which is only the 17th most populous country in the Arab league. The second most popululous Arab league country, which you claim Zogby left out, is Iraq-- and yet Iraqi-Americans make up only 3% of Arab Americans: http://www.aaiusa.org/arab-americans/22/demographics. It wouldn't have mattered then if Zogby/AAI HAD left them out, but yet, what is your evidence that he actually did? He's well aware of their existence, as you see in the various links.

http://www.fd.org/pdf_lib/CulturalIssues_MidEast.pdf

Milton, you often impress me with your knowledge of things. Other times, you come off like a total ding-dong. This one was one of your ding-dong moments.

Prove it. Let's see your cite for what you say above, for a start.

[thekohser]

Oh, yeah? What is your evidence for THAT?

http://www.zogby.com/news/readnews.cfm?ID=629

What Arabs Think: Values, Beliefs and Concerns Landmark Study of Arab Values and Political Concerns. The views of 3,800 Arab adults polled by Zogby International

analyzes the views of 3,800 Arab adults polled by Zogby International from eight countries (Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Kuwait, Morocco, UAE, Saudi Arabia and Israel).



Now, it's your turn. Show me where it says that MOST Arab-Americans are Catholic. Show me where it says most Muslim Americans are Indonesian?

That's what I wanted proof of, and you provided three lousy links -- none of which even asserted, much less proved, either of your silly blathering claims.