Giano's morons, Giano today, Malleus tomorrow? Options Rating

[RMHED]

Poor old Giano is under siege, and this time it looks like he'll be sanctioned. The civility enforcers are marshalling their forces.

[Text]

It would be better for him to keep insulting as he wants, so his account gets bashed and banned permanently, so they have another person to chase day and night. Much entertainment.

[Kelly Martin]

Yawn. Giano and co. are just part of the amusement. There's nothing of substance here.

[Text]

Giano needs to banned for either being a persistent troll or because he will lose his sanity if he continues.

But the community likes the trolling and likes driving people insane, so not going to happen...

[Sxeptomaniac]

Seems like he's long since realized that his supporters have given him a certain amount of power, and it's gone straight to his head. He's as arrogant as any of the most abusive admins these days, and he's long since lost a coherent cause for his drama.

[Text]

Seems like he's long since realized that his supporters have given him a certain amount of power, and it's gone straight to his head. He's as arrogant as any of the most abusive admins these days, and he's long since lost a coherent cause for his drama.

He has zero power, but he has people who cover his shoulders because they like the drama.

[InkBlot]

Seems like he's long since realized that his supporters have given him a certain amount of power, and it's gone straight to his head. He's as arrogant as any of the most abusive admins these days, and he's long since lost a coherent cause for his drama.

He has zero power, but he has people who cover his shoulders because they like the drama.

He has friends who provide moral support, and sometimes run interference...but it's his "enemies" who provide him power. More fuss gets raised around him, than he ever causes directly, that the best outcome of any encounter simply becomes "don't get involved in the first place."

Earlier today, I was talking with some friends about a online video where some tech news blog managed to get a skype session going with someone from Westboro Baptist Church and someone from Anonymous in a joint interview. One of my friends said, "good interviewer...very polite to both sides." To which another friend responded, "well, yeah. I wouldn't want to talk to someone from WBC or Anonymous...either one of them could make your life miserable."

Threads on ANI about Giano should, in reasonable people, provoke similar responses.

[Sxeptomaniac]

He has friends who provide moral support, and sometimes run interference...but it's his "enemies" who provide him power. More fuss gets raised around him, than he ever causes directly, that the best outcome of any encounter simply becomes "don't get involved in the first place."

True. The fact that the major participants of any ANI "discussion" regarding Giano are likely to be obviously in one camp or the other makes it impossible for anything to really be done about his increasingly ridiculous behavior. He would have to really go off the deep end for any major action to be taken at this point.

[Kelly Martin]

He has zero power, but he has people who cover his shoulders because they like the drama.

That's largely true, but not entirely. There are people who think that Giano is, or will be, their savior, and who support him on that basis. However, they're not a large enough coalition to have a measurable, long-term impact on Wikipedia's political culture.

Most of his "support" is just people who cheer him on because he puts on a good show.

[LessHorrid vanU]

He has zero power, but he has people who cover his shoulders because they like the drama.

That's largely true, but not entirely. There are people who think that Giano is, or will be, their savior, and who support him on that basis. However, they're not a large enough coalition to have a measurable, long-term impact on Wikipedia's political culture.

Most of his "support" is just people who cheer him on because he puts on a good show.

No, most of the people who support him recall the attempts by "the powers that be" to remove him for pointing out their mistakes and embarrassing them - and every time some innocent brings up (sometimes valid) issues with his behaviour and it is jumped upon by the usual suspects as another attempt to have him banned, then some of the other usual suspects will again man the barricades.

This presupposes that there are those who believe that there are others who are still petty enough to still try and punish Giano for "indiscretions" in the past. Well, there are and there are. The result that WP:CIVIL is largely deprecated is the fault of those who attempted to use it as a gag, and not Giano's.

[chrisoff]

However, it should be noted that most of the opposes were opposing explicitly on grounds of futility, not expressing an opinion that the proposed sanction was incorrect or objecting to the characterization of your behavior as not meeting Wikipedia standards. Several people did oppose on those grounds, but a clear minority of the opposes. It would appear that there is a community consensus that your behavior is not meeting expected standards. It also appears that the community's patience for putting up with that is wearing thin over time. It would be advisable to consider that in your future dealings with other users - if these incidents continue, the community may exhaust its patience with you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=416892157

This post has been edited by chrisoff:

[TungstenCarbide]

However, it should be noted that most of the opposes were opposing explicitly on grounds of futility, not expressing an opinion that the proposed sanction was incorrect or objecting to the characterization of your behavior as not meeting Wikipedia standards. Several people did oppose on those grounds, but a clear minority of the opposes. It would appear that there is a community consensus that your behavior is not meeting expected standards. It also appears that the community's patience for putting up with that is wearing thin over time. It would be advisable to consider that in your future dealings with other users - if these incidents continue, the community may exhaust its patience with you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=416892157

Georgewilliamherbert uses Wikipedia as a social diversion. Just look at his "contributions"

[Tarc]

Well, I meant what I said; keeping him unsanctioned provides cover for the rest of us. I may have to deploy the Giano Defense soon, as I am now being dragged before An/I for poking fun that the lolicon-supporting Wikipe-tan fan club.

This post has been edited by Tarc:

[RDH(Ghost In The Machine)]

No, most of the people who support him recall the attempts by "the powers that be" to remove him for pointing out their mistakes and embarrassing them - and every time some innocent brings up (sometimes valid) issues with his behaviour and it is jumped upon by the usual suspects as another attempt to have him banned, then some of the other usual suspects will again man the barricades.

This presupposes that there are those who believe that there are others who are still petty enough to still try and punish Giano for "indiscretions" in the past. Well, there are and there are. The result that WP:CIVIL is largely deprecated is the fault of those who attempted to use it as a gag, and not Giano's.

+5 post!
IMO G has two main problems:
1) He's not changed his act nor his tactics in several Wiki generations.
2) Although he's still a hero to an increasingly diminished number of old tymers, who remember back when he was the No. 6 of the Wiki-village (IE the only high profile contributor openly and effectively standing up to the cabalistas on site and getting away with it), The WP classes of 08 and after see him more as a privileged pain.

He jumped the shark when he openly defended Jimbeau over Marsden instead of going in for the kill. I have no idea what his game plan was then or is now. I'm not sure he even has one...if he does, it could be described in architectural terms as Baroque-Opaque.
His last triumph of any significance, was in helping to being down that bestiality loving gas bag FT2, which is now ancient history. His poor showing in the most recent Arb elections are indicative of this.

Face it, Giacomo, unless you can do a better job of rousing the rabble and appealing to the newcomers, you will become a relic...like me.

[Giano]

No, most of the people who support him recall the attempts by "the powers that be" to remove him for pointing out their mistakes and embarrassing them - and every time some innocent brings up (sometimes valid) issues with his behaviour and it is jumped upon by the usual suspects as another attempt to have him banned, then some of the other usual suspects will again man the barricades.

This presupposes that there are those who believe that there are others who are still petty enough to still try and punish Giano for "indiscretions" in the past. Well, there are and there are. The result that WP:CIVIL is largely deprecated is the fault of those who attempted to use it as a gag, and not Giano's.

+5 post!
IMO G has two main problems:
1) He's not changed his act nor his tactics in several Wiki generations.
2) Although he's still a hero to an increasingly diminished number of old tymers, who remember back when he was the No. 6 of the Wiki-village (IE the only high profile contributor openly and effectively standing up to the cabalistas on site and getting away with it), The WP classes of 08 and after see him more as a privileged pain.

He jumped the shark when he openly defended Jimbeau over Marsden instead of going in for the kill. I have no idea what his game plan was then or is now. I'm not sure he even has one...if he does, it could be described in architectural terms as Baroque-Opaque.
His last triumph of any significance, was in helping to being down that bestiality loving gas bag FT2, which is now ancient history. His poor showing in the most recent Arb elections are indicative of this.

Face it, Giacomo, unless you can do a better job of rousing the rabble and appealing to the newcomers, you will become a relic...like me.

I'm not bothered about becoming a relic - I've been that for years and I have never had a grand game plan. I shall continue to do what I've always done, when I see something that does not seem right - hold my nose and jump in and worry about the consequences afterwards - I might have to tread water sometimes, but swimming against the tide is something I am well used to. some of my "crusades" have been understood (eventually) and some never at all, but there are none that I regret - including the Jimbeau "affair" (pardon the pun) - some (not all) of the things he was accused of were unfair, so I pointed it out. It was as simple as that

Anyhow, there are far more like me now, so I don't have to work so hard - in fact I am very happy to leave things to the "new generation" - things don't seem to be as clear cut as they used to be and I have lost the impetus. I can't fathom this Rod&Emu business at all. Why was he ever permitted to be admin - and remain so, for so long? Then we have an Arb who I find extremely concerning - another disaster for Wikipedia waiting to drop there, I bet. At one time, I would have gone out and highlighted it; I can't be bothered any more because nothing changes. I'll leave the reasons for that for you to fathom.

I don't think there has been an Arbcom case against me for ages, so I must be on the way out. There was a silly kerfuffle on ANI the other day, but that was swiftly dealt with - did you see GWH on my page (oh LOL). So it looks like I'm just another old Wikiedia has been. I'm quite happy with that. But I am so glad to see others that are now not frightened of questioning and being blocked by the spurious, juvenile Admins that the project's management delights in encouraging because it keeps them where they are at the expense of the project.

Giacomo.

[chrisoff]

yeah, I think you seem rather silly now. Not taken seriously.

[Malleus]

yeah, I think you seem rather silly now. Not taken seriously.

You do realise that you're replying to a posting made six weeks ago?

[chrisoff]

Yup!

I hadn't noticed. There is a time limit on posts?

Are you the police? What do you care?

This post has been edited by chrisoff:

[Malleus]

Yup!

I hadn't noticed. There is a time limit on posts?

Are you the police? What do you care?

No, I'm not the police and I don't care. Knock yourself out.

[Zoloft]

Yup!

I hadn't noticed. There is a time limit on posts?

Are you the police? What do you care?

Note to forum posters:

In order to appear less of a douche, replies like the following are advised.

I hadn't noticed. My apologies.

[chrisoff]

So Giano does have his followers! Posting minutes after I note the obvious.

Why so much defensiveness? And mentioning manners after a notoriously rude douche like Malleus!

Part of the Giano ''old tymers"?

[Zoloft]

So Giano does have his followers! Posting minutes after I note the obvious.

Why so much defensiveness? And mentioning manners after a notoriously rude douche like Malleus!

Part of the Giano ''old tymers"?

Nah. Just some things pique me more than others. I shan't offer any more advice to you. Didn't mean to 'chris' you off. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)

[chrisoff]

Why defend obvious sockpuppet friends of Giano liike http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Ka_...herine_de_Burgh

Lady Ka of Catherine de Burgh is an obvious sockpuppet of the "beloved" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Bishzilla

Bishizlla "awarded" Lady Katherine with an "Awesome Wikipedian" award! To a person who apparently never actually added content to wikipedia but served as a sockpuppet to further the end of of certain users.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=361721085

[Zoloft]

Why defend obvious sockpuppet friends of Giano liike http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Ka_...herine_de_Burgh

Lady Ka of Catherine de Burgh is an obvious sockpuppet of the "beloved" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Bishzilla

Bishizlla "awarded" Lady Katherine with an "Awesome Wikipedian" award! To a person who apparently never actually added content to wikipedia but served as a sockpuppet to further the end of of certain users.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=361721085

They need another word for those. 'Fluffpuppet' would work on several levels. They are annoying and should be removed. One account, and a doppelganger for admins to edit without accidentally handing the mop to a Wi-fi hacker in a coffee shop should be about it.

Of course, I would prefer that IP editors be disallowed in the software, and anyone who wanted to edit Wikipedia had to use their proper name. But that's not going to happen the way the culture evolved.

This post has been edited by Zoloft:

[chrisoff]

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=426257018

This just makes a joke out of wikipedia, not that it isn't a joke anyway.

It's sort of a Facebook for those who don't have any "friends".

[EricBarbour]

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=426257018

This just makes a joke out of wikipedia, not that it isn't a joke anyway.

It's sort of a Facebook for those who don't have any "friends".

(IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)

[Theanima]

Why defend obvious sockpuppet friends of Giano liike http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Ka_...herine_de_Burgh

Lady Ka of Catherine de Burgh is an obvious sockpuppet of the "beloved" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Bishzilla

Um, Katherine is Giano... I thought everyone knew that.

[chrisoff]

No. What is "obvious" to the cabal is not "obvious" to innocent editors who are just trying to contribute to the encyclopedia.

Your response shows how deep the corruption is, and why editors are dropping off.

Ugly atmosphere and in group controlling and protecting those who destroy.

But I see what pleasure you get out of pointing out what is obvious to you! (Makes you feel good, eh?)

This post has been edited by chrisoff:

[Zoloft]

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=426257018

This just makes a joke out of wikipedia, not that it isn't a joke anyway.

It's sort of a Facebook for those who don't have any "friends".

Chris, some people have a more flamboyant manner of expressing their camaraderie. I have friends who play touch football on weekends, and others who write sonnets while drinking tea. To each their own way, as long as it harms not others.

[Somey]

Your response shows how deep the corruption is, and why editors are dropping off.

The corruption is definitely deep, but I don't think his response necessarily sheds any additional light on why... As for why editors are dropping off, I suspect you're assigning a bit more importance to Mr. Giano's circle of Wikifriends than may be warranted, at least in comparison to all the other reasons why editors are dropping off.

So, Mr. Chrisoff, do you say these things merely because you feel Mr. Giano and his circle are an annoyance, or is there more to it than that? Personally, I'd say the fact that WP is more of a social network than anything else (for its users, at least) is one of the less-pressing problems it has, unless the social-networking aspect is also preventing the more pressing problems from getting solved. (Do you think it is?)

[chrisoff]

If Giano =GianoII= Giano Returned = Lady Ka of Catherine de Burgh = Bishzilla (and all her various other sockpuppets) including Bishonen, then
we have an ArbCom member Ellen of the Roads posting to Bishonen

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=426289591

So Ellen of the Roads feeds into this sockpuppet mess?

[A Horse With No Name]

So Ellen of the Roads feeds into this sockpuppet mess?

Ellen ain't the only one on Arbcom who harvests a sockpuppet farm. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/evilgrin.gif)

[Theanima]

If Giano =GianoII= Giano Returned = Lady Ka of Catherine de Burgh = Bishzilla (and all her various other sockpuppets) including Bishonen, then
we have an ArbCom member Ellen of the Roads posting to Bishonen

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=426289591

So Ellen of the Roads feeds into this sockpuppet mess?

No, let me make it clearer - Bishonen is not the same person as Giano. Bishonen has a sockpuppet, Bishzilla. Giano has had several accounts: Giano, Giano II, GiacomoReturned and others, as well as sockpuppets Catherine de Burgh and Ka of Catherine de Burgh.

[chrisoff]

Bishonen has Bishzilla

Little Stupid

Bishapod

Bish and chips

Darwinbish

Baby Stupid

At least.

That's off the top of my head. Probably has a half a million more.

So Ellen of the Roads feeds into all this? And other Arbs also?

Wonderful.

This post has been edited by chrisoff:

[RMHED]

Bishonen has Bishzilla

Little Stupid

Bishapod

Bish and chips

Barwinish

At least.

That's off the top of my head. Probably has a half a million more.

So Ellen of the Roads feeds into all this? And other Arbs also?

Wonderful.

Scandalous aint it.

Anyone would think Wikipedia was a social networking website, when of course in reality it's a valuable educational resource that exists solely to promote knowledge.

[Doc glasgow]

Bishonen has Bishzilla

Little Stupid

Bishapod

Bish and chips

Barwinish

At least.

That's off the top of my head. Probably has a half a million more.

So Ellen of the Roads feeds into all this? And other Arbs also?

Wonderful.

Scandalous aint it.

Anyone would think Wikipedia was a social networking website, when of course in reality it's a valuable educational resource that exists solely to promote knowledge.

Ironically, if you want to scream at the social networkers on Wikipedia, you are screaming at the wrong people.

Giano and Bishonen are strong content contributors. Their sock-puppets have more in common with with in-house office humour than with social networking. There are plenty people who are about Wikipedia for social networking - but that's the crowd who create only little articles, maybe a DYK and then spend their time inventing new barnstars or signing up for 400 useless wikiprojects - or those who hang out on ANI looking for drama. Sure, Bishonen and Giano do a bit of useless (and sometimes childish) pissing about (who doesn't?), but they also put in many long lonely hours on FAs. You can criticise that, but it isn't done for cheap and quick attention.

This post has been edited by Doc glasgow:

[chrisoff]

Baby Stupid

is

Bishonen


http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=398443670

This post has been edited by chrisoff:

[RMHED]

Bishonen has Bishzilla

Little Stupid

Bishapod

Bish and chips

Barwinish

At least.

That's off the top of my head. Probably has a half a million more.

So Ellen of the Roads feeds into all this? And other Arbs also?

Wonderful.

Scandalous aint it.

Anyone would think Wikipedia was a social networking website, when of course in reality it's a valuable educational resource that exists solely to promote knowledge.

Ironically, if you want to scream at the social networkers on Wikipedia, you are screaming at the wrong people.

Giano and Bishonen are strong content contributors. Their sock-puppets have more in common with with in-house office humour than with social networking. There are plenty people who are about Wikipedia for social networking - but that's the crowd who create only little articles, maybe a DYK and then spend their time inventing new barnstars or signing up for 400 useless wikiprojects - or those who hang out on ANI looking for drama. Sure, Bishonen and Giano do a bit of useless (and sometimes childish) pissing about (who doesn't?), but they also put in many long lonely hours on FAs. You can criticise that, but it isn't done for cheap and quick attention.

It's all a form of egoism. You don't seriously believe it's altruistic do you?

[A Horse With No Name]

Sure, Bishonen and Giano do a bit of useless (and sometimes childish) pissing about (who doesn't?), but they also put in many long lonely hours on FAs.

How do you know they are lonely hours? For all we know, they could be banging out these articles while having an orgy. Besides, Giano clearly has a lot of help with his article writing -- his articles (which are better than adequate) and his messaging (which is not) are clearly not written by the same person.

[chrisoff]

Creating 40 articles in six years?

http://toolserver.org/~soxred93/pages/inde...cts=noredirects

Really, that's considered prolific? Check out those "articles" on the list. They're pathetic. Does she have ''any'' FACs? Even GAs?

And when has she done anything in the last, oh, four or five years, except spout baby talk?

And here are her contributions to the Commons

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Bishapod

Is this altruistic article writing and contributions? This is narcissism that Arbcom feeds into and approves.

This post has been edited by chrisoff: