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_ Editors _ Giano retires

Posted by: Peter Damian

Retirement statement here http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:GiacomoReturned&oldid=475550962

Not the first time, of course, and I will open a book on when he is back. But, this seems a little, a trifle bit more serious than the others.

The points he makes are all perfectly valid, of course.

Posted by: Mathsci

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Tue 7th February 2012, 12:04pm) *

Retirement statement here http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:GiacomoReturned&oldid=475550962

Not the first time, of course, and I will open a book on when he is back. But, this seems a little, a trifle bit more serious than the others.

The points he makes are all perfectly valid, of course.


All because of Hans Adler, so it seems. But Hans can solve his problems by going out to a Viennese cafe, ordering a small (or large) plate of Kaiserschmarrn:

Image

and following it by a small glass of schnapps:

Image

The latter process can be repeated until the problem fades away.

Posted by: Abd

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Tue 7th February 2012, 6:04am) *
Retirement statement here http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:GiacomoReturned&oldid=475550962
Not the first time, of course, and I will open a book on when he is back. But, this seems a little, a trifle bit more serious than the others.

The points he makes are all perfectly valid, of course.
He refers to a sort-of farewell from Hans Adler, one more example of a disgusted old-timer, a good guy who simply burned out, pushing the boulder up the hill again and again and again.

Structure. Folks, the structure creates the content.

Posted by: It's the blimp, Frank

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Tue 7th February 2012, 11:04am) *

Retirement statement here http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:GiacomoReturned&oldid=475550962

Not the first time, of course, and I will open a book on when he is back. But, this seems a little, a trifle bit more serious than the others.

The points he makes are all perfectly valid, of course.
I don't like the Randy in Boise essay because it seems to justify cabal behavior. Of course, every policy gets gamed. And beyond that, I don't see why it is necessary to make fun of Boise.

Posted by: TungstenCarbide

QUOTE(It's the blimp, Frank @ Tue 7th February 2012, 7:01pm) *
I don't like the Randy in Boise essay because it seems to justify cabal behavior. Of course, every policy gets gamed. And beyond that, I don't see why it is necessary to make fun of Boise.

As much as I like Giano, he has a touch of the anti-American bug, in that smug way Europeans who feel themselves superior do.

Posted by: lilburne

QUOTE(TungstenCarbide @ Tue 7th February 2012, 7:08pm) *

QUOTE(It's the blimp, Frank @ Tue 7th February 2012, 7:01pm) *
I don't like the Randy in Boise essay because it seems to justify cabal behavior. Of course, every policy gets gamed. And beyond that, I don't see why it is necessary to make fun of Boise.

As much as I like Giano, he has a touch of the anti-American bug, in that smug way Europeans who feel themselves superior do.




Everything considered I agree it is so unfair.


Posted by: A Horse With No Name

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:GiacomoReturned&diff=475476083&oldid=475459979 smile.gif

Posted by: TungstenCarbide

QUOTE(lilburne @ Tue 7th February 2012, 7:41pm) *

QUOTE(TungstenCarbide @ Tue 7th February 2012, 7:08pm) *

QUOTE(It's the blimp, Frank @ Tue 7th February 2012, 7:01pm) *
I don't like the Randy in Boise essay because it seems to justify cabal behavior. Of course, every policy gets gamed. And beyond that, I don't see why it is necessary to make fun of Boise.

As much as I like Giano, he has a touch of the anti-American bug, in that smug way Europeans who feel themselves superior do.


youtube

Everything considered I agree it is so unfair.

Ha! that's really good. Here's the top rated comment'

"When I think of all the America war veterans buried throughout Europe who gave there lives to save your sorry asses from the Germans twice and kept the Soviets from stomping your asses, Maybe we are stupid."

Annnnd, one back at ya;

Posted by: EricBarbour

A. These people are all verborrheic. Head hurt.

B. He'll be back. Make book on it.

Posted by: Abd

QUOTE(A Horse With No Name @ Tue 7th February 2012, 3:00pm) *
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:GiacomoReturned&diff=475476083&oldid=475459979 smile.gif
That's the kind of comment that got her a short-block by Jimbo, about which she made a huge fuss. Bishonen is a diva, so this is is truly funny.

McBride deserved it, though. This is the real Wikipedia, folks, these are the highly respected users, unmasked. No gravitas. The "collaborative community?"

Nobody putting Wikipedia together knew how to build genuine community. Instead, it was all opportunistic, shallow connections, part of this is "anonymous editing."

Nothing wrong with allowing anonymous editing, per se, but a very serious problem to vest authority and control in anonymous users. It defeats the normal social restraints that keep people within boundaries, and doesn't allow the high-bandwidth communication that is possible in person, and to some extent with voice.

Posted by: mbz1

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Tue 7th February 2012, 11:04am) *

Retirement statement here http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:GiacomoReturned&oldid=475550962

Not the first time, of course, and I will open a book on when he is back. But, this seems a little, a trifle bit more serious than the others.

The points he makes are all perfectly valid, of course.


I like what he said about govcom:
QUOTE
Successive Arbcoms have become more and more lack lustre, and the acceptance of the case against Malleus Fatuorum ,in particular the amount and length of permitted spite (evidence - I believe it was called) that was posted against him, is just one more example of the self-satisfied, smug, puritan lynch mob that's allowed and encouraged to rule here. For that the Arbcom, and editors who posted such lengthy vitriol, should be hanging their heads in shame.


Posted by: chrisoff

Well, is there an Italian word for someone who constantly retires in a huff?

Posted by: lilburne

QUOTE(chrisoff @ Wed 8th February 2012, 12:34am) *

Well, is there an Italian word for someone who constantly retires in a huff?


Berlusconi.

Posted by: radek

QUOTE(lilburne @ Tue 7th February 2012, 7:04pm) *

QUOTE(chrisoff @ Wed 8th February 2012, 12:34am) *

Well, is there an Italian word for someone who constantly retires in a huff?


Berlusconi.


They wish.

Posted by: SB_Johnny

QUOTE(lilburne @ Tue 7th February 2012, 8:04pm) *

QUOTE(chrisoff @ Wed 8th February 2012, 12:34am) *

Well, is there an Italian word for someone who constantly retires in a huff?

Berlusconi.

Is that the dried-toast-ish cookie, or the crumbly cookie with the cream in the middle? blink.gif

Posted by: Shalom

Epic theater by Giano, who will not go quietly into that good night.

Posted by: radek

QUOTE(Shalom @ Tue 7th February 2012, 8:03pm) *

Epic theater by Giano, who will not go quietly into that good night.


I don't know, there's very few fireworks this time. He just sounds sort of ... bored. So maybe itz fer realz.

Posted by: Silenteditor

QUOTE(radek @ Wed 8th February 2012, 2:36am) *

QUOTE(Shalom @ Tue 7th February 2012, 8:03pm) *

Epic theater by Giano, who will not go quietly into that good night.


I don't know, there's very few fireworks this time. He just sounds sort of ... bored. So maybe itz fer realz.



Every 'dramatic goodbye' is less effective than the one before it. Exit fatigue, perhaps.

But really, what else is there for him to do? He's already tried running for arbcomm.

Posted by: Peter Damian

QUOTE(chrisoff @ Wed 8th February 2012, 12:34am) *

Well, is there an Italian word for someone who constantly retires in a huff?


Er, yes, it's the Italian name 'Diva', derived from the Latin for 'goddess'.

Posted by: A Horse With No Name

QUOTE(Abd @ Tue 7th February 2012, 7:14pm) *

QUOTE(A Horse With No Name @ Tue 7th February 2012, 3:00pm) *
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:GiacomoReturned&diff=475476083&oldid=475459979 smile.gif
That's the kind of comment that got her a short-block by Jimbo, about which she made a huge fuss. Bishonen is a diva, so this is is truly funny.

McBride deserved it, though. This is the real Wikipedia, folks, these are the highly respected users, unmasked. No gravitas. The "collaborative community?"


Well, McBride ain't a slouch in the diva department. Though in this case, he's playing Mary Wilson to Bishzilla's Diana Ross. laugh.gif

Posted by: Abd

QUOTE(A Horse With No Name @ Wed 8th February 2012, 9:19am) *
QUOTE(Abd @ Tue 7th February 2012, 7:14pm) *
QUOTE(A Horse With No Name @ Tue 7th February 2012, 3:00pm) *
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:GiacomoReturned&diff=475476083&oldid=475459979 smile.gif
That's the kind of comment that got her a short-block by Jimbo, about which she made a huge fuss. Bishonen is a diva, so this is is truly funny.

McBride deserved it, though. This is the real Wikipedia, folks, these are the highly respected users, unmasked. No gravitas. The "collaborative community?"
Well, McBride ain't a slouch in the diva department. Though in this case, he's playing Mary Wilson to Bishzilla's Diana Ross. laugh.gif
I wrote, long ago, that Bishonen missed a glorious opportunity to make a difference on Wikipedia. When Jimbo short-blocked her, she could have written, "Thanks for taking a firm stand for civility, the project needs it, and I'd gotten lax with myself."

You know, I'm now hanging out with people who, when confronted with their own interpersonal errors, let's call them, respond like that.

"You're right," and then they back up and revise their communication. They don't defend the errors or shortcomings. It's amazing to see. The world is not all like Wikipedia, eh?

Posted by: Zoloft

QUOTE(Abd @ Wed 8th February 2012, 2:56pm) *

QUOTE(A Horse With No Name @ Wed 8th February 2012, 9:19am) *
QUOTE(Abd @ Tue 7th February 2012, 7:14pm) *
QUOTE(A Horse With No Name @ Tue 7th February 2012, 3:00pm) *
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:GiacomoReturned&diff=475476083&oldid=475459979 smile.gif
That's the kind of comment that got her a short-block by Jimbo, about which she made a huge fuss. Bishonen is a diva, so this is is truly funny.

McBride deserved it, though. This is the real Wikipedia, folks, these are the highly respected users, unmasked. No gravitas. The "collaborative community?"
Well, McBride ain't a slouch in the diva department. Though in this case, he's playing Mary Wilson to Bishzilla's Diana Ross. laugh.gif
I wrote, long ago, that Bishonen missed a glorious opportunity to make a difference on Wikipedia. When Jimbo short-blocked her, she could have written, "Thanks for taking a firm stand for civility, the project needs it, and I'd gotten lax with myself."

You know, I'm now hanging out with people who, when confronted with their own interpersonal errors, let's call them, respond like that.

"You're right," and then they back up and revise their communication. They don't defend the errors or shortcomings. It's amazing to see. The world is not all like Wikipedia, eh?

Part of my routine when I wake and prepare for work each day is to say a short reminder to myself—"Consider you may be incorrect, and admit it if you are."

It's saved me from many a compounded error over the decades.

Posted by: Abd

QUOTE(Zoloft @ Wed 8th February 2012, 8:35pm) *
Part of my routine when I wake and prepare for work each day is to say a short reminder to myself—"Consider you may be incorrect, and admit it if you are."

It's saved me from many a compounded error over the decades.
I'm sure. We can go further than that, we can admit that we are quite likely to be wrong in some way, i.e., that the "truth" is generally more than we know. I can be "right" about a thing, as to how I'm thinking about it, but be "wrong" in terms of achieving overall goals, because there is something I don't know, and I don't know that I don't know it.

For "wrong," there, read "ineffective."

The admission, then, is of fallibility, which we can admit even when we think that we are "right." One way that I managed to reconcile what I'm learning with my assertive habits was to realize that I want others, when they think they are right, to stand up for what they think. In fact, it's not necessary to be right to stand for what we think, it is really a choice, not a discovery of "truth."

In fact, if we seem to disagree, it may well be that we are both "right." We simply don't understand each other well enough, and that is a possibility that suggests and allows for growth and learning and transformation.

Posted by: Peter Damian

Still not 'returned' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/GiacomoReturned Should be 'GiacomoNotReturned'.

Meanwhile

QUOTE

We desperately need a reliable way to profile editors: sort the vandal-fighters from the page formatters from the dablink fixers from the FA builders from the POV-pushing wackjobs. Until we can identify our users, we can't truly understand our problems, let alone fix them. Since we have all editing history - including deleted edits, very important - a reasonable profiling program can be written, but it would be a huge task. Still, if you want to do something about Wikipedia's future beyond incessant hand-wringing, the first step is to know thyself. --JaGatalk 18:38, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

The difference is that Jimmy is talking about "experienced editors" (based on number of edits) and others are talking about "top editors" and "high-quality editors". Most of us can spot the flaw in the inference that they're the same. There are none so blind as those who will not see. 75.59.206.144 (talk) 19:48, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

I specifically acknowledged and discussed the difference between the two, so please take your insults elsewhere.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 20:04, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

No, you did not. Neither did I insult you. Why do you always try to pick a fight whenever any Wikipedian points out a serious concern? 75.59.206.144 (talk) 22:25, 10 February 2012 (UTC)


Posted by: mbz1

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Tue 7th February 2012, 11:04am) *

Retirement statement here http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:GiacomoReturned&oldid=475550962

Not the first time, of course, and I will open a book on when he is back. But, this seems a little, a trifle bit more serious than the others.

The points he makes are all perfectly valid, of course.

I am surprised to see such little response http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:GiacomoReturned

Posted by: EricBarbour

He's got a sock. Still editing.
(If you can't figure the name out, you're sad.)

Posted by: chrisoff

QUOTE(EricBarbour @ Tue 14th February 2012, 2:02am) *

He's got a sock. Still editing.
(If you can't figure the name out, you're sad.)


I noticed that too. A blindingly obvious sock.