Jayjg vs G-Dett Options

[Cla68]

Jayjg has been trying to get PalestineRemembered banned lately, and G-Dett has, as usual, effectively point out the mendacity in Jayjg's effort. Apart from the the AN and ANI discussions, these threads on G-Dett's talk page are worth a read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:G-Dett#Comment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:G-D...emembered_on_AN

My favorite is this response to Jayjg, one of best put-downs I think I've ever read in Wikipedia:

"The trouble with your response is that "b" and "c" are self-evidently false and a waste of your time to have typed and my time to have read."

[Derktar]

Hmmm, seems he was blocked during this.

[Cla68]

Hmmm, seems he was blocked during this.

G-Dett is a she. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

[Derktar]

Hmmm, seems he was blocked during this.

G-Dett is a she. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smiling.gif)

That's the second time I've messed up gender (previously I refered to Deskana as a she), from now on everyone is an "it" (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laughing.gif)

[Saltimbanco]

Looks like Team Israel has decided that the CAMERA Affair has blown over.

This post has been edited by Saltimbanco:

[Milton Roe]

Looks like Team Israel has decided that the CAMERA Affair has blown over.

But not without supplying us with a few really choice quotes of monumental stupidity:

Paranoia has no place on wikipedia. This is a basic fact that many of the people jumping on this ANI thread that you started do not realise. MickMacNee (talk) 04:13, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

(IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif) "A basic fact" ?? Where do they get these people?

There are a lot of other people intoning "Wikipedia is not a battleground" like it was beads on a rosary, and would save them when they got to the Saint Christopher medal at the end. Where DO they get these people???

This post has been edited by Milton Roe:

[Eleland]

...and we're back at it over at Talk:New antisemitism, with Jay pulling his usual "i'm just politely pointing out that everything you say is unworthy of discussion, blatantly hypocritical, and beneath contempt, and I wish you would stop being so uncivil" bullshit, IronDuke yipping along at his side like a poodle, and G-Dett basically destroying everything he says. Jay's reduced to rejoinders like, "Your argument was an argument, not a 'rebuttal.'"

Clearly, a project which accords such a fatuous crank administrative rights, let alone a seat on the arbitration board, has serious issues.

[Cla68]

...and we're back at it over at Talk:New antisemitism, with Jay pulling his usual "i'm just politely pointing out that everything you say is unworthy of discussion, blatantly hypocritical, and beneath contempt, and I wish you would stop being so uncivil" bullshit, IronDuke yipping along at his side like a poodle, and G-Dett basically destroying everything he says. Jay's reduced to rejoinders like, "Your argument was an argument, not a 'rebuttal.'"

Jayjg needs to get used to losing arguments, because it has been happening a lot lately and the trend is likely to continue. Maybe, though, he enjoys it.

This post has been edited by Cla68:

[Herschelkrustofsky]

Clearly, a project which accords such a fatuous crank administrative rights, let alone a seat on the arbitration board, has serious issues.

Could someone familiar with the topic provide a brief synopsis of how Jayjg managed to ooze into his positions of power? I presume that Jimbo had a lot to do with it. What's the relationship?

[written by he who wrote it]

Clearly, a project which accords such a fatuous crank administrative rights, let alone a seat on the arbitration board, has serious issues.

Could someone familiar with the topic provide a brief synopsis of how Jayjg managed to ooze into his positions of power? I presume that Jimbo had a lot to do with it. What's the relationship?

Here's some background. Yes, of course it was Jimbo, along with some of the arbitrators at the time.

Jay's a sad demonstration of that maxim about power and corruption. He's always been opinionated, but back before he started accumulating bigtime Wiki-XP, he was actually polite, reasonable, and intelligent, willing to engage in actual arguments based on research and facts rather than cynical ruleslawyering. I even supported him for adminship despite disagreeing with him on just about everything.

[One]

Clearly, a project which accords such a fatuous crank administrative rights, let alone a seat on the arbitration board, has serious issues.

Could someone familiar with the topic provide a brief synopsis of how Jayjg managed to ooze into his positions of power? I presume that Jimbo had a lot to do with it. What's the relationship?

Here's some background. Yes, of course it was Jimbo, along with some of the arbitrators at the time.

Jay's a sad demonstration of that maxim about power and corruption. He's always been opinionated, but back before he started accumulating bigtime Wiki-XP, he was actually polite, reasonable, and intelligent, willing to engage in actual arguments based on research and facts rather than cynical ruleslawyering. I even supported him for adminship despite disagreeing with him on just about everything.

Agree with you there. He dealt really well with the waves of frustrating people back then; especially considering that it was much harder to get trolls blocked before the dawn of ArbCom. Someone might be horrified by this comparison, but I thought of him coping reasonably with Palestinian POV warriors something like I thought of guy against whats-his-bucket here.

He doesn't deal so reasonably anymore, probably because he doesn't have to.


Your link reminds me of another thing. I expected Raul to be appointed to fill the large vacancy left by NYB's forced departure. In the past he usually just picked the next in line, and for the last election he picked based on net votes. That would make Raul next in line. Is he hoping (like me) that NYB can come back, or is Jimbo actually reluctant to elevate an arb candidate with more than 100 opposing votes?

This post has been edited by One:

[tarantino]

Your link reminds me of another thing. I expected Raul to be appointed to fill the large vacancy left by NYB's forced departure. In the past he usually just picked the next in line, and for the last election he picked based on net votes. That would make Raul next in line. Is he hoping (like me) that NYB can come back, or is Jimbo actually reluctant to elevate an arb candidate with more than 100 opposing votes?

NYB's departure wasn't forced, it was a choice, and he is back editing WP and returned to arbcom duty, as of today.

[Cla68]

Agree with you there. He dealt really well with the waves of frustrating people back then; especially considering that it was much harder to get trolls blocked before the dawn of ArbCom. Someone might be horrified by this comparison, but I thought of him coping reasonably with Palestinian POV warriors something like I thought of guy against whats-his-bucket here.

He doesn't deal so reasonably anymore, probably because he doesn't have to.


Your link reminds me of another thing. I expected Raul to be appointed to fill the large vacancy left by NYB's forced departure. In the past he usually just picked the next in line, and for the last election he picked based on net votes. That would make Raul next in line. Is he hoping (like me) that NYB can come back, or is Jimbo actually reluctant to elevate an arb candidate with more than 100 opposing votes?

Newyorkbrad is back and hopefully will renew his arbcom membership.

I think the reason Jimbo liked Jayjg was for the same reasons as he liked SlimVirgin, Essjay, and some of those others, because Jayjg was effectively solving the "bosses'" problems with his effective admin work.

[One]

Holy cow, that's great!

Are we supposed to be mum on NYB's return? I think it's the biggest news on Wikipedia today. Why is there no thread?

This post has been edited by One:

[Milton Roe]

Your link reminds me of another thing. I expected Raul to be appointed to fill the large vacancy left by NYB's forced departure. In the past he usually just picked the next in line, and for the last election he picked based on net votes. That would make Raul next in line. Is he hoping (like me) that NYB can come back, or is Jimbo actually reluctant to elevate an arb candidate with more than 100 opposing votes?

NYB's departure wasn't forced, it was a choice, and he is back editing WP and returned to arbcom duty, as of today.

Drat. Of course, here at Wikipedia Review, we tried to wreck his life and make his dog crazy. But we failed. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/sad.gif) It happens.

Ah, well, back to Slimmy....

[Saltimbanco]

I wonder a bit at the "New antisemitism" interest. High on my list of likely sponsors/employers of Jayjg is the ADL, which has been promoting the meme of "new antisemitism" for over thirty years. What's odd about the ADL with regard to Wikipedia is that ADL has broadly promoted its policing of the internet against hatred ... but you cannot find any mention of Wikipedia in anything they have ever produced. Or at least I couldn't. Where they might have taken a principled (and public) stand on the need for everyday citizens to police Wikipedia against racism, instead they act as though they'd say, "Wiki what?" if they were ever asked about it. I think just a cursory look at the sorts of things they do and their internet focus makes it pretty clear that they must be taking an active interest in Wikipedia, but apparently only sub rosa.

The ADL has a past that it should be proud of. With the possible exception of the Southern Poverty Law Center, probably no other public organization has done more to confront racism in America. The current leadership, on the other hand, seems to be a bunch of paranoiacs whose only principle is doing whatever they think is best for the Jewish people and the State of Israel, not necessarily in that order. They had to be dragged kicking and screaming to make even a half-assed acknowledgment of the Armenian Genocide, because they didn't want to upset Israel's relationship with Turkey. And this is an attitude that Jayjg also conveys.

The missing piece is, why would Jimbo be so eager to hump the ADL's (or whatever similar organization sponsors Jayjg, but it's probably the ADL) leg? I suspect that a good chunk of money was donated by someone to Wikipedia early on, with strings attached. And Jimbo, of course, would do almost anything to bring all the world's knowledge to poor children in Africa, so how could he refuse?

[everyking]

I even supported him for adminship despite disagreeing with him on just about everything.

Shit, I looked, and there's blood on my hands too. And just look at some of those opposing names!

[Herschelkrustofsky]

The ADL has a past that it should be proud of. With the possible exception of the Southern Poverty Law Center, probably no other public organization has done more to confront racism in America.

Oddly enough, I disagree with you on this. I'll explain why in a cursory way, lest I stray too far off topic: in addition to the files controversy, which is so well-known it's even in Wikipedia, there were some other scandals that have been more successfully buried. For example, there was a story on the front page of the Los Angeles Times in 1970 called "Police Arrange Trap: Klan Terror Is Target," which exposed a project by the ADL where funds that were ostensibly raised to hire informants were actually used to set up a bloody ambush. There have been many stories of ADL operatives staging or fabricating anti-Semitic incidents to boost fundraising. There has been a cozy "quid pro quo" relationship with Jewish mobsters, who donated big bucks, and recieved protection in return: anyone who pointed out that they were mobsters was branded an anti-Semite by the ADL. I've seen the precious photo of Moe Dalitz receiving the ADL's "Torch of Liberty" award from Joan Rivers at a ceremony in 1982. The ADL is tolerated, but not always welcomed with open arms, by the Jewish community, and I've always suspected that Woody Allen's film "Crimes and Misdemeanors" was as veiled shot at the ADL.

[Saltimbanco]

Our differences on this are likely only a matter of when and to what degree a noble purpose took a nasty turn. In any case, I'd like to more formally state my two hypotheses, so that they might be subjected to ongoing scrutiny:

1. Jayjg works for the ADL.
2. Jimbo Wales accepted, probably on behalf of some Wikipedia-related organization, donations of some sort in exchange for discrete promotion of Jayjg and related editors within Wikipedia.

The latter point, especially, would go a long way toward providing an understanding of what has gone wrong with Wikipedia.

[Cedric]

NYB's departure wasn't forced, it was a choice, and he is back editing WP and returned to arbcom duty, as of today.

Drat. Of course, here at Wikipedia Review, we tried to wreck his life and make his dog crazy. But we failed. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/sad.gif) It happens.

Ah, well, back to Slimmy....

Actually, we did succeed with the dog:

(IMG:http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1003/778519839_45b33af361.jpg)

Feel our power, NYB! BAWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!