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She seems like a reasonably good choice based on very limited information. Perhaps the high "sex" count relates to gender or woman's health issues.
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QUOTE(thekohser @ Mon 5th April 2010, 1:42pm)
P.S. I also see that 64.7% of Datta's news mentions have to do with sex, so I can see why Jimbo wanted her on the Board.
Ms. Datta's documentarian/writing work seems to be focused on the sex trade in India, and one of her main points is that there's a big difference between "sex work" and "trafficking" - the latter being an extremely abusive form of female slavery. In effect, her thesis is that being a "sex worker" should be an accepted (if not respected) profession, whereas victims of human trafficking are essentially rape victims, not really sex workers. I'm not saying I disagree with this; in fact if I lived in India I would probably agree wholeheartedly, but either way, that would seem to explain all the "sex" references.
Nevertheless, there's considerable legitimacy to the question of why this person belongs on the WMF board. Of course, there's considerable legitimacy to the question of why any of the current board members belong on it, including Jimbo himself, but as long as we're mentioning Ms. Datta in particular... what's her basis for WMF involvement? I can't see an obvious English WP account for her - Arundhati bakshi (T-C-L-K-R-D)
has similar interests, but there are a billion people in India, so that's extremely tenuous, IMO. Ms. Datta herself seems to indicate here that she's not already a "part of the community."
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QUOTE(Somey @ Mon 5th April 2010, 1:00pm)
QUOTE(thekohser @ Mon 5th April 2010, 1:42pm)
P.S. I also see that 64.7% of Datta's news mentions have to do with sex, so I can see why Jimbo wanted her on the Board.
Ms. Datta's documentarian/writing work seems to be focused on the sex trade in India, and one of her main points is that there's a big difference between "sex work" and "trafficking" - the latter being an extremely abusive form of female slavery. In effect, her thesis is that being a "sex worker" should be an accepted (if not respected) profession, whereas victims of human trafficking are essentially rape victims, not really sex workers. I'm not saying I disagree with this; in fact if I lived in India I would probably agree wholeheartedly, but either way, that would seem to explain all the "sex" references.
Nevertheless, there's considerable legitimacy to the question of why this person belongs on the WMF board. Of course, there's considerable legitimacy to the question of why any of the current board members belong on it, including Jimbo himself, but as long as we're mentioning Ms. Datta in particular... what's her basis for WMF involvement? I can't see an obvious English WP account for her - Arundhati bakshi (T-C-L-K-R-D)
has similar interests, but there are a billion people in India, so that's extremely tenuous, IMO. Ms. Datta herself seems to indicate here that she's not already a "part of the community."
She's made this documentary, and the wiki on this film was entirely created by Samuel Klein, a.k.a. sj (T-C-L-K-R-D)
(God, another "j" kabalist) who is an elected WMF board member to 2011 . Photo here. We've discussed him before. Klein lives in the US. I would imagine that he is a part of the WMF board connection that got Datta considered by the board. Obviously he's interested in her work.
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QUOTE(Ottava @ Mon 5th April 2010, 3:42pm)
Thankfully, the only hits for...
I told you once, Rima. Now I'm telling you again, as a courtesy. Due to your ridiculous account of how I was "quickly banned" on Wikiversity, you are not allowed to use my name again in public discourse.
I will open up that opportunity again to you, if you let me know your full name, city, and state.
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Aged around 55, 'friends and family of LGBT, given all the documentation we have given of the Porno-pediac tendencies, is it any wonder to find out that Bishakha Datta's main claim to fame is promoting that prostitution is a woman's right and can be empowering and a good thing? (From, New Internationalist magazine).
She is currently researching ‘Selling Sex’ ... so does that mean we look forward to endless Porn-bios of Indian sex performers too!?! She dissed Slumdog Millionaire as The "garbage tourism" and "poverty porn".
By now, of course, the internet is awash with press releases about the appointment. Could be very right on ... but it all makes me wonder if it is just window-dressing the second woman on the board. I could imagine she is gifted and ambitious enough to use the Porno-pedia appointment, amongst all the other directorships, for herself and push it in India to the right people.
Great. Just what Indian needs. More unpaid labor for children.
So ... rich Indian, goes to Stanford University to "do communication", picks up some "liberal" ideas (pro-prostitution, pro-abortion etc), goes back to India where even the not-for-profits orgs have housekeepers (nice touch) to recycle them? Worli is where the rich and famous of Bombay live.
QUOTE(Bishakh Datta @ Tue 6th April 2010, 1:29am)
I have no objections to porn per se - there's good porn and bad porn.
Women in prostitution do not necessarily consider themselves victims, it’s just the society that views them so. These women do not need pity and charity but empathy like any other marginalized human being.
She has made her phone, emails, addresses all public (see, Ford Foundation or British Council). If anyone cares to write and introduce our work, the issues of concern we raise here, and engage her on useful and enlightening conversation, try one of these:
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QUOTE(Cock-up-over-conspiracy @ Mon 5th April 2010, 7:43pm)
Aged around 55, 'friends and family of LGBT, given all the documentation we have given of the Porno-pediac tendencies, is it any wonder to find out that Bishakha Datta's main claim to fame is promoting that prostitution is a woman's right and can be empowering and a good thing? (From, New Internationalist magazine).
She is currently researching ‘Selling Sex’ ... so does that mean we look forward to endless Porn-bios of Indian sex performers too!?! She dissed Slumdog Millionaire as The "garbage tourism" and "poverty porn".
By now, of course, the internet is awash with press releases about the appointment. Could be very right on ... but it all makes me wonder if it is just window-dressing the second woman on the board. I could imagine she is gifted and ambitious enough to use the Porno-pedia appointment, amongst all the other directorships, for herself and push it in India to the right people.
Great. Just what Indian needs. More unpaid labor for children.
So ... rich Indian, goes to Stanford University to "do communication", picks up some "liberal" ideas (pro-prostitution, pro-abortion etc), goes back to India where even the not-for-profits orgs have housekeepers (nice touch) to recycle them? Worli is where the rich and famous of Bombay live.
QUOTE(Bishakh Datta @ Tue 6th April 2010, 1:29am)
I have no objections to porn per se - there's good porn and bad porn.
Women in prostitution do not necessarily consider themselves victims, it’s just the society that views them so. These women do not need pity and charity but empathy like any other marginalized human being.
She has made her phone, emails, addresses all public (see, Ford Foundation or British Council). If anyone cares to write and introduce our work and the issues of concern we raise here and engage her on useful and enlightening conversation, try one of these:
The view that prostitutes are not victims and porn can be either good or bad probably fits in well with the internet libertarian values of WMF and may explain the appointment. However there is another point of view, that of labor organizers of people in "the sex industries" that might lead to that position independently of libertarian underpinnings. Anyone with a deep commitment to the disenfranchised will be the odd one out on that board. The WMF might have made a choice based on their preconceptions that could allow some social responsibility through the door. Hope so, but too early to tell.
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QUOTE(thekohser @ Tue 6th April 2010, 1:29am)
Due to your ridiculous account of how I was "quickly banned" on Wikiversity, .
You made a statement infront of Jimbo and you were banned. That was rather quick. If you think otherwise, well, that is your right I guess. You can think whatever you want. Jimbo still banned you regardless.
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QUOTE(GlassBeadGame @ Mon 5th April 2010, 11:01pm)
The view that prostitutes are not victims and porn can be either good or bad probably fits in well with the internet libertarian values of WMF and may explain the appointment. However there is another point of view, that of labor organizers of people in "the sex industries" that might lead to that position independently of libertarian underpinnings.
Certainly most of the people I know who hold that view (or, more accurately, the view the prostitutes may or may not be victims, depending on individual circumstance) could be more fairly described as feminist social democrats than as libertarians of any stripe (they don't think much of Ayn Rand, in any case). I may hang out with an unrepresentative cross section of humanity, though.
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QUOTE(Sarcasticidealist @ Mon 5th April 2010, 8:20pm)
QUOTE(GlassBeadGame @ Mon 5th April 2010, 11:01pm)
The view that prostitutes are not victims and porn can be either good or bad probably fits in well with the internet libertarian values of WMF and may explain the appointment. However there is another point of view, that of labor organizers of people in "the sex industries" that might lead to that position independently of libertarian underpinnings.
Certainly most of the people I know who hold that view (or, more accurately, the view the prostitutes may or may not be victims, depending on individual circumstance) could be more fairly described as feminist social democrats than as libertarians of any stripe (they don't think much of Ayn Rand, in any case). I may hang out with an unrepresentative cross section of humanity, though.
My own view is near to that. I do see pornography and prostitution as exploitative. But then I see most type of labor as exploitative in a more or less Marxist "alienation" manner. Prostitution and pornography are just a level up on the usual exploitation, a distortion of unjust gender relations. But the sin lies with the exploiter, not the exploited. I can be comfortable with a person who adopts the "no foul" position concerning the sex workers in order to overcome isolation and demoralization while working for better conditions.
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QUOTE(Ottava @ Mon 5th April 2010, 10:18pm)
QUOTE(thekohser @ Tue 6th April 2010, 1:29am)
Due to your ridiculous account of how I was "quickly banned" on Wikiversity, .
You made a statement infront of Jimbo and you were banned. That was rather quick. If you think otherwise, well, that is your right I guess. You can think whatever you want. Jimbo still banned you regardless.
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Any discussion of prostitution has to be framed with the doubt that it is essential, necessary or unavoidable. It seems to be taken for granted that it is 'inevitable' within the current socio-economical systems but I would question if whether they are rather prone to glamorizing it because the proponents of such systems are keen consumers of it.
An interesting comparison to Datta's India is the Hindu Bali where prostitution amongst the Hindu Balinese is almost unknown and instead carried on in the main by the at least nominally Islamic Javanese. The girls and women being driven by poverty. If it was possible to remove poverty, and the residuals of endemic social abuses, I wonder how many prostitutes there really would be anywhere?
The pornographization of world society, something the internet is contributing to greatly, is another question.
But what is Datta's background and where is she going? It is relatively easy, with the money that must be behind her, to import a second hand idea from the West and replay it in India.
It is strange that she, nor the other nominees, had to present no "manifesto" to "The Community" and that the unpaid serfs of "The Community" have no part in the election of new members to the assembly. It is completely undemocratic ... the Foundation being just another elite "Them" riding on the back of the unpaid workers "Us"?
It will be interesting to see how "Indian" she is and what kind of Indian she is. Low or no paid serf castes are far more natural to India.
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You can read her in 'Sexuality, Gender and Rights: Exploring Theory and Practice in South and Southeast Asia' by Geetanjali Misra: Radhika Chandiramani
QUOTE
Bishakha Datta January 6th, 2009
Many comments seem to suggest that prostitutes sell their bodies. That's not true. Prostitutes sell sex - which is much less than bodies, children, kidneys, and souls. Their body remains their own; they sell sexual labour. That doesn't necessarily alienate them from their bodies, selves or souls.
And what is so wrong with selling sex? Why is it okay to use your body to dig wells, stack shelves, do factory work...anything except selling sex?
Millions of workers sell their labour in various forms today to make a living; some of us use our brains - isn't that a form of intellectual labour?
I wonder if she has tried it herself.
Generally, at least, the exploitation of "well diggers, shelves stackers and factory workers" stops at the point of their skin and external organs, their employees not reaching inside of it. I am not sure that I am sympathetic to the intellectual point she is making.
However, I can see how her idea fit in with the apparent consensus of the more outspoken in the Wikipedia world. Ditto, she has a taste for "side benefits" as some of the other Foundation have; Squamish salmon chowder, Lil’wat venison chili, bison salami, arctic muskox, wild boar prosciutto et al. Must be hard to live with one's conscience coming from a nation where 42% of the population live on less than the international poverty line of $1.25 a day.
This post has been edited by Cock-up-over-conspiracy:
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QUOTE(Cock-up-over-conspiracy @ Tue 6th April 2010, 1:06am)
It is strange that she, nor the other nominees, had to present no "manifesto" to "The Community" and that the unpaid serfs of "The Community" have no part in the election of new members to the assembly. It is completely undemocratic ... the Foundation being just another elite "Them" riding on the back of the unpaid workers "Us"?
Which reminds me...isn't there a WP:NOTADEMOCRACY page somewhere?..... If not, it's about time they got one......
QUOTE
However, I can see how her idea fit in with the apparent consensus of the more outspoken in the Wikipedia world. Ditto, she has a taste for "side benefits" as some of the other Foundation have; Squamish salmon chowder, Lil’wat venison chili, bison salami, arctic muskox, wild boar prosciutto et al. Must be hard to live with one's conscience coming from a nation where 42% of the population live on less than the international poverty line of $1.25 a day.
Which does not surprise me one bit. Yuppies are a universal disease, even India has millions of them. They clearly have yuppies who write awful travel articles, just like the USA.....
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QUOTE(EricBarbour @ Tue 6th April 2010, 10:18am)
Which reminds me...isn't there a WP:NOTADEMOCRACY page somewhere?..... If not, it's about time they got one......
Is there a list of the other nominees that they tried for and interview ... or are the elite all elected in secret?
QUOTE
"Don't worry about such matters kiddies, you would not understand them ... now go off and edit or ban hammer a few sockspuppets will you? We need to keep up good face. Paid for housekeeping ...!?! Ha! Only by Indian NPOs."
I am finding it hard to stomach the idea of Lil' twat venison and bison salami and wondering how offensive it all sounds to a nation of vegetarians like India.
I guess some folks forget their ethics when a deluxe travel agency throws free tickets at them. The Artic Musk Ox was hunted to extinction ad had to be re-introduced from Greenland. It seems they are back on the menu now.
Apparently they were easy to hunt because their single defensive strategy was to close up against any predators in a tight little circle. I guess pretty much like folk getting a payday off Wiki-Serfdom.
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QUOTE(Cock-up-over-conspiracy @ Tue 6th April 2010, 2:23am)
You can read her in 'Sexuality, Gender and Rights: Exploring Theory and Practice in South and Southeast Asia' by Geetanjali Misra: Radhika Chandiramani
QUOTE
Bishakha Datta January 6th, 2009
Many comments seem to suggest that prostitutes sell their bodies. That's not true. Prostitutes sell sex - which is much less than bodies, children, kidneys, and souls. Their body remains their own; they sell sexual labour. That doesn't necessarily alienate them from their bodies, selves or souls.
And what is so wrong with selling sex? Why is it okay to use your body to dig wells, stack shelves, do factory work...anything except selling sex?
Millions of workers sell their labour in various forms today to make a living; some of us use our brains - isn't that a form of intellectual labour?
I wonder if she has tried it herself.
Generally, at least, the exploitation of "well diggers, shelves stackers and factory workers" stops at the point of their skin and external organs, their employees not reaching inside of it. I am not sure that I am sympathetic to the intellectual point she is making.
However, I can see how her idea fit in with the apparent consensus of the more outspoken in the Wikipedia world. Ditto, she has a taste for "side benefits" as some of the other Foundation have; Squamish salmon chowder, Lil’wat venison chili, bison salami, arctic muskox, wild boar prosciutto et al. Must be hard to live with one's conscience coming from a nation where 42% of the population live on less than the international poverty line of $1.25 a day.
I don't really understand your hostility to Ms. Datta. I appreciate you taking the effort to find her obscure coverage on the internet although others might not reach the same conclusions you do. She is attempting to give some dignity and comfort to the dispossessed. A piece of travel writing documenting a luxury vacation does seem to a poor choice for someone who operates a nonprofit addressing such issues so you score a hit there I suppose.
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QUOTE(GlassBeadGame @ Tue 6th April 2010, 3:03pm)
I don't really understand your hostility to Ms. Datta. I appreciate you taking the effort to find her obscure coverage on the internet although others might not reach the same conclusions you do. She is attempting to give some dignity and comfort to the dispossessed.
I have no reason to be hostile and I do not consider myself to be.
I was interested to know more about Datta's background and jati because I thought she might be a genuinely interesting appointment. Unfortunately already the internet is aswill with Wiki-wash news releases about her, and very little real information seems to exist at all.
I am obviously entirely sympathetic to anyone who is forced into prostitution through nothing more than poverty, or caste and sexuality prejudices.
I guess it all come back on the debate between a welfarist approach and an abolitionist approach and I fall on the side of abolitionism ... fully conscious of the impossibility of such reform in such a corrupt and impoverished nation as India. I do not believe any women can "choose" the life they live.
I hope that Datta does turns out to be an outspoken champion of the underclasses but my fears have been aroused that with a jumble of pro-pornography, pro-prostitution, liberal values and luxury junkets she is just more of the same ... and that the Foundation is out to use her enthusiasm to suck in a boatload of middle class Indians as unpaid serfs.
What does she need to do to make a difference ... I could say something like "put her foot down and demand $1,000,000 from Jimbo to outfit local "dispossessed" women and girls with the technology to contribute their own gender bias to the project proving that she is a real difference and not just being used as window dressing" but even then ... is it really what they need?
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QUOTE(Cock-up-over-conspiracy @ Tue 6th April 2010, 11:03am)
QUOTE(GlassBeadGame @ Tue 6th April 2010, 3:03pm)
I don't really understand your hostility to Ms. Datta. I appreciate you taking the effort to find her obscure coverage on the internet although others might not reach the same conclusions you do. She is attempting to give some dignity and comfort to the dispossessed.
I have no reason to be hostile and I do not consider myself to be.
I was interested to know more about Datta's background and jati because I thought she might be a genuinely interesting appointment. Unfortunately already the internet is aswill with Wiki-wash news releases about her, and very little real information seems to exist at all.
I am obviously entirely sympathetic to anyone who is forced into prostitution through nothing more than poverty, or caste and sexuality prejudices.
I guess it all come back on the debate between a welfarist approach and an abolitionist approach and I fall on the side of abolitionism ... fully conscious of the impossibility of such reform in such a corrupt and impoverished nation as India. I do not believe any women can "choose" the life they live.
I hope that Datta does turns out to be an outspoken champion of the underclasses but my fears have been aroused that with a jumble of pro-pornography, pro-prostitution, liberal values and luxury junkets she is just more of the same ... and that the Foundation is out to use her enthusiasm to suck in a boatload of middle class Indians as unpaid serfs.
What does she need to do to make a difference ... I could say something like "put her foot down and demand $1,000,000 from Jimbo to outfit local "dispossessed" women and girls with the technology to contribute their own gender bias to the project proving that she is a real difference and not just being used as window dressing" but even then ... is it really what they need?
I'm still uncertain what her non-profit actual does. Hopefully it offers programs and organization benefiting the sex workers and not just makes statements opposing the stigma and isolation. The former would reflect well for her sense of social responsibility. The later might indicate another variant of libertarianism. Let us know if you can find anything.
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QUOTE(thekohser @ Tue 6th April 2010, 1:29am)
QUOTE(Ottava @ Mon 5th April 2010, 3:42pm)
Thankfully, the only hits for...
I told you once, Rima. Now I'm telling you again, as a courtesy. Due to your ridiculous account of how I was "quickly banned" on Wikiversity, you are not allowed to use my name again in public discourse.
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New WMF'er on the board, Bishakha Datta
