MZM back on RFA, voters already handing him his ass Options

[Anonymous editor]

MZM loves his deletions.

[The Joy]

MZM loves his deletions.

Were they good deletions?

[Anonymous editor]

dunno, do you want to look through 800,000+ deletions, most of which were automated?

[EricBarbour]

dunno, do you want to look through 800,000+ deletions, most of which were automated?

Yep, that's him. The dorks don't like him because he's a deletionist. Ooohhh. Bad boy.

[The Joy]

dunno, do you want to look through 800,000+ deletions, most of which were automated?

Were there any prominent deletions that raised the ire of many Wikipedians?

Otherwise, I see no reason for him not to be an administrator.

[GlassBeadGame]

dunno, do you want to look through 800,000+ deletions, most of which were automated?

Sounds like a good start.

[Somey]

Sounds like a good start.

Heck, he shouldn't just be an administrator, he should be their Chief Technology Officer...

[Anonymous editor]

dunno, do you want to look through 800,000+ deletions, most of which were automated?

Were there any prominent deletions that raised the ire of many Wikipedians?

Otherwise, I see no reason for him not to be an administrator.

don't know, but it wasn't the deletions that people primarily took issue with.

Because he deleted a lot of stuff and most of it was insignificant cleanup, that means there's no reason for him not to be an admin? For me, I can set aside all the stuff he did, but not the way he's behaved during this RfA. Anyone with that history who seriously wanted to become an admin again, would not have to have the history dragged out of him, bit by bit, and would show at least some contrition, rather than taking a completely confrontational approach.

Rightly or wrongly, that won't work and he ought know better.

[The Joy]

dunno, do you want to look through 800,000+ deletions, most of which were automated?

Were there any prominent deletions that raised the ire of many Wikipedians?

Otherwise, I see no reason for him not to be an administrator.

don't know, but it wasn't the deletions that people primarily took issue with.

Because he deleted a lot of stuff and most of it was insignificant cleanup, that means there's no reason for him not to be an admin? For me, I can set aside all the stuff he did, but not the way he's behaved during this RfA. Anyone with that history who seriously wanted to become an admin again, would not have to have the history dragged out of him, bit by bit, and would show at least some contrition, rather than taking a completely confrontational approach.

Rightly or wrongly, that won't work and he ought know better.

The only major charges I can recall about MZM was his use of unauthorized bots (which he now gets permission to use), his giving sockpuppeting tips on this forum (which, IIRC, wasn't already known to most people anyhow and sophisticated puppeteers were already aware of. ), and his offer to help Greg find unwatched BLP articles (which resulted in an overreaction and proved regardless of Greg's involvement that Wikipedia cannot watch and maintain the large number of BLP articles anyway).

It shouldn't matter what the "Community" (i.e. a small dozen of socially elite editors and their kiddie sycophantic followers with colorful signatures and weak self-esteem with no ability to judge for themselves whether a person is capable to build and maintain a genuine encyclopedia.) wants, but whether MZM's skills can build an encyclopedia (which is what you guys want to build, right?). Yes, social and diplomatic skills are a plus, yet no one can overlook his technical expertise and MediaWiki experience. If Wikipedians were wise, they would take advantage of MZM's technical skills and have him help them create better bots, make sockpuppeting harder, and solve the BLP problem. Think of the opportunity wasted by holding on to past transgressions and keeping MZM from the tools!

What positives could MZM bring to Wikipedia with his administrator tools and would they outweigh the negatives, past and present? Think about it carefully and considerately.

[Anonymous editor]

Trust comes first and foremost. People are not willing to vote for someone who they can't trust. RfA voters want to feel that he won't repeat the things he did in the past, and from what he's said, it sounds like he's not interested in changing anything. People can forgive, but not when the candidate violates trust again and again without even admitting to doing anything wrong.

Now I will of course not argue that all administrators are trustworthy; indeed, some have proven themselves not worthy of the trust placed in them, but that doesn't change anything about this specific instance.

In response to your question, I don't think the positives outweigh the negatives from Wikipedia's perspective.

[Malleus]

Sounds like a good start.

Heck, he shouldn't just be an administrator, he should be their Chief Technology Officer...

I agree.

[The Joy]

Trust comes first and foremost. People are not willing to vote for someone who they can't trust. RfA voters want to feel that he won't repeat the things he did in the past, and from what he's said, it sounds like he's not interested in changing anything. People can forgive, but not when the candidate violates trust again and again without even admitting to doing anything wrong.

Now I will of course not argue that all administrators are trustworthy; indeed, some have proven themselves not worthy of the trust placed in them, but that doesn't change anything about this specific instance.

In response to your question, I don't think the positives outweigh the negatives from Wikipedia's perspective.

I'm being more of a devil's advocate than anything. There used to be a time that developers were given administrator tools without an RFA. I believe that a developer once ran for RFA a few years and received opposes for wasting the Community's time when he/she could have just asked for the tools and not gone through RFA. Now if a 'crat gave MZM the tools to aid in his capacity as a developer, the drama would be explosive and many resignations along with an ArbCom case would follow.

Strange that MZM did not provide a reason for wanting the tools in the first place, except stating that he was a long time editor and developer. Had he provided some good reasons for having the tools, perhaps he would have had more supports.

I'm thinking this is more of a social experiment.

Sounds like a good start.

Heck, he shouldn't just be an administrator, he should be their Chief Technology Officer...

I agree.

Oh, yes, definitely.

[Anonymous editor]

Strange that MZM did not provide a reason for wanting the tools in the first place, except stating that he was a long time editor and developer. Had he provided some good reasons for having the tools, perhaps he would have had more supports.

No question. I think one of the opposes stated as much.

I'm thinking this is more of a social experiment.

I agree, as I was saying earlier in the thread.

[A Horse With No Name]

As RfA train wrecks go, this is pretty impressive.

When is Ironholds going back for another grab at the tools?

[Ottava]

I still have 3 more opposes, 2 more neutrals, and 13 more supports than what McBride does now, but I have a feeling that my record may be crushed.

[GlassBeadGame]

I still have 3 more opposes, 2 more neutrals, and 13 more supports than what McBride does now, but I have a feeling that my record may be crushed.

That's like Lyndon LaRouche and Bat Buchanan arguing over who ran a better presidential campaign.

[Ottava]

I still have 3 more opposes, 2 more neutrals, and 13 more supports than what McBride does now, but I have a feeling that my record may be crushed.

That's like Lyndon LaRouche and Bat Buchanan arguing over who ran a better presidential campaign.

I hope I'm Buchanan in that analogy (I assume you mean Pat?).

[CharlotteWebb]

Hmm, too bad Kurt seems to be retired. I'd like to hear his opinion on all this.

[Peripitus]

As RfA train wrecks go, this is pretty impressive.

I can't work out if MZM sought pain, attention, drama or all three, as this result was predictable. It's like a boo'd off comedian returning to the stage just to collect more rotten fruit.

When is Ironholds going back for another grab at the tools?

Durova ?

[A Horse With No Name]

When is Ironholds going back for another grab at the tools?

Durova ?

Get Steve Crossin, Wisdom89 and Ten Pound Hammer to throw their hats into the RfA ring again, and we can have a John Henry-worthy train wreck!

I would like to see Malleus go for adminship -- I'd put money down that he would pass (narrowly, perhaps, but he'd make the grade).