Gary² and the Chipster: the bullying! the lying! Options

[Piperdown]

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=158758673

Cliffb reverted as "sockpuppet of banned user". Nevermind that a quick wikipedia review of Cliffb's editing reveals no such thing.

Samiharris is out of control.

Good thing tag teamer Gary...er...um...Mantanmoreland is there to revert, so "samiharris" doesn't get a 3RR.

[LamontStormstar]

I am starting to suspect The Wikimedia Foundation and/or some of its major donors to be involved in the naked shortselling of overstock.com

[jorge]

I am starting to suspect The Wikimedia Foundation and/or some of its major donors to be involved in the naked shortselling of overstock.com

There was a report on BBC NEWS that suggested that naked short selling might be responsible for the current financial crisis....

[Kato]

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=158758673

Cliffb reverted as "sockpuppet of banned user". Nevermind that a quick wikipedia review of Cliffb's editing reveals no such thing.

Samiharris is out of control.

Good thing tag teamer Gary...er...um...Mantanmoreland is there to revert, so "samiharris" doesn't get a 3RR.

You're right. This is deeply corrupt and something needs to be done. Like... yesterday. Once someone like Cliffb gets reverted as a Wordbomb sock puppet by stooges, then the situation has clearly gone way too far.

I haven't paid much attention to this business, but it is obvious now that Mantanmoreland, who as far as we know is still protected by shadowy admins at WP, is given carte blanche to manipulate the public's perception of naked short selling via the use of wikipedia. Why? I'd like to know.

Somey recently concluded that Gary Weiss was largely the reason the Review exists. Weiss and Chip Berlet, who is also given special protection on WP for reasons that have never been explained, have debased any ideals other WP editors might have had when they embarked on editing. Of course, we all know the name of the high profile female Canadian admin who implemented this duel protection racket. Again, why? I don't know.

Attempts to rfc these situations, and bring them to eyes of "the community" have been immediately deleted and silenced. See this and this if you don't believe it. Why? I don't know.

[jorge]

Attempts to rfc these situations, and bring them to eyes of "the community" have been immediately deleted and silenced. See this and this if you don't believe it. Why? I don't know.

Well, Weiss is a financial journalist and Wales used to work in the Chicago financial markets...

[LamontStormstar]

Well, Weiss is a financial journalist and Wales used to work in the Chicago financial markets...

Can proof be found that the two knew each other in real life?

[jorge]

Well, Weiss is a financial journalist and Wales used to work in the Chicago financial markets...

Can proof be found that the two knew each other in real life?

Considering Weiss is an author of several books on financial trading and the mafia (don't forget Wales had an interest in that too) I find it unlikely they did not know of each other.

[Piperdown]

Well, Weiss is a financial journalist and Wales used to work in the Chicago financial markets...

Can proof be found that the two knew each other in real life?

Considering Weiss is an author of several books on financial trading and the mafia (don't forget Wales had an interest in that too) I find it unlikely they did not know of each other.

I really doubt they knew each other before WP. I don't doubt that Jimmy got to know lil GW, his outside voice, and some of lil GW's rich friends, and some of lil GW's "you want bad publicity or good publicity?" writer friends about the time that Jimbo gave Cla68 the finger on the Weiss affair.

Word on the wikistreet says that lil GW whips out the lawyer routine on websites that dare speaketh old film noir movie names in the same paragraph as Monsignor Weiss, so Jimbo probably got to know lilGW's ambulance chaser's outside voice too in the Cla68 affair.

This thread has a doppelganger tonight, Somey/Guy whoever probably needs to merge it.

This post has been edited by Piperdown: Tue 25th September 2007, 1:30am

[Nathan]

Where's the doppelganger thread you mention? This one?

[Piperdown]

Where's the doppelganger thread you mention?

Lundberg's "paid to edit" thread. Getting paid to write would be a rare occasion for lil GW lately.

[Somey]

Somey recently concluded that Gary Weiss was largely the reason the Review exists.

I wouldn't go quite that far - WR was started before Weiss even appeared on Wikipedia, from what I gather. What I would say is that the combined influence of Weiss and Berlet has been so disruptive and divisive - and these two people are extremely good at that, probably better than any of us here could ever hope to be - that the need to expose their malfeasance, for the good of Wikipedia and the collaborative web in general, has led to WR's being branded an enemy site. After all, don't forget that when WR first started, Erik Moeller himself was a regular poster. Even Dave Gerard posted here a few times... Not that most of us really miss those guys, of course. But their accounts are still active!

Weiss and Chip Berlet, who is also given special protection on WP for reasons that have never been explained, have debased any ideals other WP editors might have had when they embarked on editing.

At one point I had a theory which suggested that the folks in the SlimVirgin "cabal" felt that Berlet was useful because he was a leftist with a penchant for bashing other leftists. So, if they wanted to make a POV assertion somewhere in favor of, say, Israeli militarism, and include citations showing support from both "left" and right, they simply had to ask the ol' Chipster to write something up - and presto-bingo, a ready-made reliable source! And if they wanted to bash someone like Noam Chomsky for the same reason, Chip would be up for that too. In return, Chip's personal bio would always read like hagiography, in spite of the efforts of folks like Nobs et al to inject non-hagiographic (to say the least?) material.

I know it sounds a little elaborate, even for them... but if Berlet actively offered his services in that area, then who would they have been to refuse?

[jorge]

Well, Weiss is a financial journalist and Wales used to work in the Chicago financial markets...

Can proof be found that the two knew each other in real life?

Considering Weiss is an author of several books on financial trading and the mafia (don't forget Wales had an interest in that too) I find it unlikely they did not know of each other.

I really doubt they knew each other before WP. I don't doubt that Jimmy got to know lil GW, his outside voice, and some of lil GW's rich friends, and some of lil GW's "you want bad publicity or good publicity?" writer friends about the time that Jimbo gave Cla68 the finger on the Weiss affair.

Isn't it a little bit of an amazing coincidence that they are both involved in financial markets and both obsessed with the mafia? Even if they didn't know each other before I am sure Wales came to know of Weiss once he published his books on mafia links to Wall Street and would therefore be much more likely to do him a favour by letting him own certain articles.

[Kato]

At one point I had a theory which suggested that the folks in the SlimVirgin "cabal" felt that Berlet was useful because he was a leftist with a penchant for bashing other leftists. So, if they wanted to make a POV assertion somewhere in favor of, say, Israeli militarism, and include citations showing support from both "left" and right, they simply had to ask the ol' Chipster to write something up - and presto-bingo, a ready-made reliable source! And if they wanted to bash someone like Noam Chomsky for the same reason, Chip would be up for that too. In return, Chip's personal bio would always read like hagiography, in spite of the efforts of folks like Nobs et al to inject non-hagiographic (to say the least?) material.

I know it sounds a little elaborate, even for them... but if Berlet actively offered his services in that area, then who would they have been to refuse?

That would certainly explain this monstrous addition to the "encyclopedia" from New Anti-Semitism, where Berlet is quoted on 4 paragraphs at the beginning of perhaps WP's most controversial article. Slim made 1,835 edits to that article, Jayjg a further 950. And it was their collective need to smear a whole political class that set off the "Israeli Apartheid" multi-article chain reaction that was to be Jayjg's ruin. It also provoked the Allegations of State Terrorism in the United States fiasco as well, as editors furious with the exploits of SV and co got revenge on chosen targets. So just the volume of shame these people have inflicted on WP knows no bounds.

New Anti-Semitism

Chip Berlet of Political Research Associates, an American research group that tracks the far right, writes that, during the early 1980s, isolationists on the far right made overtures to anti-war activists on the left to join forces against government policies in areas where they shared concerns,[18] mainly civil liberties, opposition to U.S. military intervention overseas, and opposition to U.S. support for Israel.[19] [20]

Berlet argues that as they interacted, some of the classic right-wing anti-Semitic scapegoating conspiracy theories began to seep into progressive circles, [19] including stories about how a "New World Order", also called the "Shadow Government" or "The Octopus," [18] was manipulating world governments. Berlet writes that antisemitic conspiracism [21] was "peddled aggressively" by right-wing groups, and that the left adopted the rhetoric, which Berlet argues was made possible by the left's lack of knowledge of the history of fascism and its use of "scapegoating, reductionist and simplistic solutions, demagoguery, and a conspiracy theory of history." [19]

Toward the end of 1990, as the movement against the Gulf War began to build, Berlet writes that a number of far-right and antisemitic groups sought out alliances with left-wing anti-war coalitions, who began to speak openly about a "Jewish lobby" that was encouraging the United States to invade the Middle East. This idea morphed into conspiracy theories about a "Zionist-occupied government" (ZOG), which Berlet writes is the modern incarnation of the antisemitic hoax, The Protocols of the Elders of Zion. [18] Berlet adds: "It is important to recognize that as a whole the antiwar movement overwhelmingly rejected these overtures by the political right, while recognizing that the attempt reflected a larger ongoing problem." He cites the example of Wisconsin anti-war activist Alan Ruff, who appeared on a panel in Verona to discuss the Gulf War. Also on the panel on the anti-war side was another local activist, Emmanuel Branch. "Suddenly I heard Branch saying the war was the result of a Zionist banking conspiracy," said Ruff. "I found myself squeezed between pro-war hawks and this anti-Jewish nut, it destroyed the ability of those of us who opposed the war to make our point." [19]

Berlet writes that "promotion of unsubstantiated conspiracy theories by the Christic Institute, the Pacifica Radio network, and scores of alternative radio stations, has created a large audience, especially on the West Coast, that gullibly accepts undocumented anti-government assertions alongside scrupulous documented research, with little ability to tell the two apart," and warns his fellow activists on the left to "be very careful to examine the backgrounds and ideologies of those groups with which we seek to build coalitions." [19]

[jorge]

Berlet argues that as they interacted, some of the classic right-wing anti-Semitic scapegoating conspiracy theories began to seep into progressive circles, [19] including stories about how a "New World Order", also called the "Shadow Government" or "The Octopus," [18] was manipulating world governments. Berlet writes that antisemitic conspiracism [21] was "peddled aggressively" by right-wing groups, and that the left adopted the rhetoric, which Berlet argues was made possible by the left's lack of knowledge of the history of fascism and its use of "scapegoating, reductionist and simplistic solutions, demagoguery, and a conspiracy theory of history." [19]

Berlet is absolutely full of crap. He is the one dreaming up conspiracy theories to try and explain why people on the left have dared to criticise Israel. There is a simple reason for that, in that they no longer fall for the propaganda that some of the left once fell for i.e. that Israel was a wonderful socialist paradise where everyone could live in wondrous harmony on the kibbutz, along with the other "comfort fact" that the Palestinians were just Arabs who came from somewhere else and therefore had no real right to live there so it was OK to kill them/take their land etc.

[Kato]

Berlet argues that as they interacted, some of the classic right-wing anti-Semitic scapegoating conspiracy theories began to seep into progressive circles, [19] including stories about how a "New World Order", also called the "Shadow Government" or "The Octopus," [18] was manipulating world governments. Berlet writes that antisemitic conspiracism [21] was "peddled aggressively" by right-wing groups, and that the left adopted the rhetoric, which Berlet argues was made possible by the left's lack of knowledge of the history of fascism and its use of "scapegoating, reductionist and simplistic solutions, demagoguery, and a conspiracy theory of history." [19]

Berlet is absolutely full of crap. He is the one dreaming up conspiracy theories to try and explain why people on the left have dared to criticise Israel. There is a simple reason for that, in that they no longer fall for the propaganda that some of the left once fell for i.e. that Israel was a wonderful socialist paradise where everyone could live in wondrous harmony on the kibbutz, along with the other "comfort fact" that the Palestinians were just Arabs who came from somewhere else and therefore had no real right to live there so it was OK to kill them/take their land etc.

I worked on a kibbutz many, many years ago.

Harmony my foot. I found myself shackled with racist South Africans - ended up breaking some guy's nose and simply slunk off the rest of the time.

Anyway, the theme of this meme is the weird and not so wonderful protection provided for messrs Weiss/Mantamoreland and Bertlet. An old tune I know, but we always have new listeners tuning in, so it's always worth revisiting to fill dead airtime.

[Daniel Brandt]

Chip Berlet is known for two main themes in his career, at least since the 1980s. Before the 1980s he was regarded as a more conventional leftist, but since the 1980s he has spent a lot of energy criticizing both the left and the right.

One constant theme of Berlet's is that the LaRouche organization is cultic, fascist, and dangerous.

The second theme is that leftists who demonstrate an interest in conspiracy theories are a discredit to other correct-thinking leftists, and are dangerously close to rightists who spout conspiracy theories. Whether these leftists that Berlet criticizes are evil or just stupid, is something that Berlet hasn't quite decided yet. (This includes all conspiracy theories, even well-researched ones such as the 1960s assassinations of JFK, RFK, and MLK.)

As an alternative to what Berlet regards of "conspiracism" among progressives, he has embraced political correctness in its most perverted form — the "identity politics" that has been funded from above. The Ford Foundation, with its close connections to U.S. intelligence, started pumping money into women's studies, Black studies, and Chicano studies in the early 1970s. McGeorge Bundy was president of the Ford Foundation when this began. Today the Ford Foundation is funding Berlet's group, which was founded by a bunch of trust-fund feminist types back in the early 1980s. (The Wikipedia bio on McGeorge Bundy is very understated on his intelligence connections. For example, William Bundy, his brother, was in the CIA the entire time, and the Ford Foundation worked rather closely with the CIA during the 1950s.)

Berlet has also worked with the Anti-Defamation League in order to research rightists. He's pro-Israel.

I believe that the "identity politics" that emerged in the 1970s was funded from above as a means of countering the "power structure research" that was beginning to become popular among New Left veterans. These New Left veterans like myself were almost all white males, who figured out very early that U.S. policy in Vietnam could not withstand scrutiny at any level whatsoever. A connection was becoming evident between U.S. corporate capitalism and U.S. foreign policy. The same people were running both. (It's easier to make this point now than it was a few years ago. All you have to do is look at U.S. policy in Iraq.)

The white male U.S. New Left was crushed by "identity politics" in the 1970s. It only took a few years before the feminists chased us out of our offices. We were left in the street with a confused look on our faces, hanging on to our research files, and muttering phrases such as "interlocking corporate directorates."

Now here's a conspiracy theory that you can play with:

Jayjg in his RfA said that he was in his 40s and works in management. Might he be referring to financial management?

Lyndon LaRouche says a lot of things that don't make any sense to me. Much of this has to do with the philosophy of science. However, in the one area of international finance, I have been following him and I respect his opinions. Beginning in 1993, LaRouche and his organization have been speaking out on the topic of Wall Street derivatives, and how they threaten to push the international monetary system over the edge. This is still a huge topic, and I believe we'll be hearing much more about this in the next few years. The LaRouche people have been saying things about the greed on Wall Street that Wall Street doesn't want people to hear.

Berlet on Wikipedia has been protected by SlimVirgin and Jayjg. Slim might be someone's agent and so might Jayjg. Slim has also been protecting Gary Weiss on Wikipedia.

I suspect that people in high places know that the international monetary system is a house of cards. If and when it collapses, the last thing these people want is to discover that a few hundred editors on Wikipedia are trying to connect the dots and figure out who is responsible. These people in high places are using cabalists like Slim and Jayjg to make a preemptive strike that intends to "tame" Wikipedia on certain sensitive topics. Naked short selling sounds ugly to me, just like derivatives sounds ugly. Things that make Wall Street look ugly must not be allowed on Wikipedia, according to people in high places. I think Jimbo knows what's happening, but I don't think he started it. This goes higher than Jimbo.

[Jonny Cache]

Thanks for the explanation, Daniel, this stuff has always been a blurr to me.

I dimly grasp that Betting On Derivative Stocks (BODS) is really just an excuse for Some People to have a good time playing Legalized Lotto with Other People's hard-earned pension funds.

So maybe if you can explain the relation of Naked Shorts to BODS there will be some hope that I can put a few pieces of the puzzle together.

Thanks In Advance (TIA¬CREF) —

Jonny

[GlassBeadGame]

Berlet is absolutely full of crap. He is the one dreaming up conspiracy theories to try and explain why people on the left have dared to criticise Israel. There is a simple reason for that, in that they no longer fall for the propaganda that some of the left once fell for i.e. that Israel was a wonderful socialist paradise where everyone could live in wondrous harmony on the kibbutz, along with the other "comfort fact" that the Palestinians were just Arabs who came from somewhere else and therefore had no real right to live there so it was OK to kill them/take their land etc.

You're wrong. Please take your incessant Israel-bashing to another thread or off Wikipedia Review.

To American leftists criticism of Israel is not the result of embracing conspiracy theories. It is a result of no longer being able to ignore the actual nature of the Israeli state and its treatment of the Palestinians. The American occupation of Muslim states and anti-war ties forged between leftists and Muslim people speaking out for their family members plight has done much to bring this about. It is not done with any great joy, but it is becoming, for the first time, a real consensus on the American left. Berlet will isolate himself by baiting leftists as antisemites and adherents to crank right wing theories.

[Kato]

The second theme is that leftists who demonstrate an interest in conspiracy theories are a discredit to other correct-thinking leftists, and are dangerously close to rightists who spout conspiracy theories.

This blurring is in full flow now. This strange confusion. I looked at your Mighty Wurlitzer page devoted to the CIA, and I could have recited some of the material backwards regarding people like Dulles. You can trace him from Guatemala City to the Bay of Pigs without much of a struggle and none of it comes close to a theory of any sort, they are verifiable truths. But when you get a Muslim youth from the same neighbourhood as the London 7/7 bombers telling you that American servicemen were raping women in Bosnia - and that happened to me quite recently - that's when you need to step in and correct a few things.

Some stuff has mountains of significant evidence to back it up. Other stuff doesn't. And we should always start with the evidence. Not the conclusion.

Berlet has also worked with the Anti-Defamation League in order to research rightists.

See this post by me, and how a certain WP POV begins to fits together. I'm making a joke of it there, but there is a point to my sniggering.

I believe that the "identity politics" that emerged in the 1970s was funded from above as a means of countering the "power structure research" that was beginning to become popular among New Left veterans. These New Left veterans like myself were almost all white males, who figured out very early that U.S. policy in Vietnam could not withstand scrutiny at any level whatsoever. A connection was becoming evident between U.S. corporate capitalism and U.S. foreign policy. The same people were running both. (It's easier to make this point now than it was a few years ago. All you have to do is look at U.S. policy in Iraq.)

That's pretty much the case elsewhere in the Anglosphere. Traditional movements built on union solidarity became splintered by identity politics and I'm glad someone has brought that up. I wouldn't blame any particular faction, but in retrospect, one can't help thinking that people were duped by what were deliberately divisive ideas. It seems obvious now that this fracturing served only to atomise just about everyone, to the benefit of the wilfully unscrupulous. Now, the champions of identity politics dominate the mainstream of public life, reaping massive personal rewards. Whilst traditional socialist communities lie in ruins having never recovered from the 1980s.

Now here's a conspiracy theory that you can play with...

Slim might be someone's agent and so might Jayjg...

Might be. Could be. But nah. Personally, I'd need to see evidence of the actual owl before I go out at night again and reply to the hooting. I'm still pretty sure it'd be another guy hooting back at me. Not an owl.

[Kato]

Thanks for the explanation, Daniel, this stuff has always been a blurr to me.

I dimly grasp that Betting On Derivative Stocks (BODS) is really just an excuse for Some People to have a good time playing Legalized Lotto with Other People's hard-earned pension funds.

So maybe if you can explain the relation of Naked Shorts to BODS there will be some hope that I can put a few pieces of the puzzle together.

Thanks In Advance (TIA¬CREF) —

Jonny

Here's someone else's summary of this "Naked Shorts to BODS" business, if it helps Jonny. I don't know how accurate it is as this subject is Chinese to me, but The Review gets a mention.

http://cfaille.blog-city.com/a_tangled_web..._weiss_blog.htm