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User:Giano/The_future, Giano shows leadership |
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Casliber |
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Senior Member
Group: Regulars
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Member No.: 3,559
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QUOTE(Kelly Martin @ Wed 24th June 2009, 2:16pm) QUOTE(MZMcBride @ Tue 23rd June 2009, 7:05pm) I'm not expected to be productive here. I have seen no evidence that you have ever been productive at Wikipedia either, or that (in fact) anyone there is expected to produce anything in particular. QUOTE(Newyorkbrad @ Tue 23rd June 2009, 7:50pm) Actually, a majority of Wikipedia editors stick pretty much to editing articles whenever they happen to be in the mood. They have at most incidental or occasional involvement with the whole administrative apparatus of the site, or the various opportunities it provides for "moaning and groaning." You left out a very salient point, and one which I think you would prefer to ignore: when they do run into the administrative apparatus of the site, the experience tends to convince them to find other pastimes. And yet, the administrativichiks, a caste of which you are a senior member, seem to think that this is not indicative of a problem. I think there are signs this is changing. Some content contributors have gotten more involved this year and are sticking around thus far. I am also not necessarily convinced that is a problem as the primary objective is still writing an encyclopedia. Cas
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Malleus |
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Fat Cat
Group: Contributors
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From: United Kingdom
Member No.: 8,716
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QUOTE(A Horse With No Name @ Wed 24th June 2009, 6:15pm) QUOTE(sbrown @ Wed 24th June 2009, 8:11am) Anyone whose a serious editor and also an admin so knows whats really going on is very likely to get sick and leave.
A serious editor and also an admin? What's wrong with that sentence? (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif) To be fair, I can think of quite a few who fit that bill. A few of them on here even. This post has been edited by Malleus:
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A Horse With No Name |
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I have as much free time as a Wikipedia admin!
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Posts: 4,471
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QUOTE(Malleus @ Wed 24th June 2009, 1:52pm) QUOTE(A Horse With No Name @ Wed 24th June 2009, 6:15pm) QUOTE(sbrown @ Wed 24th June 2009, 8:11am) Anyone whose a serious editor and also an admin so knows whats really going on is very likely to get sick and leave.
A serious editor and also an admin? What's wrong with that sentence? (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif) To be fair, I can think of quite a few who fit that bill. A few of them on here even. To be frank, I cannot name any person on Wikipedia who improved as an editor after becoming an admin. I am, however, finding a lot of admins who had some degree of editorial skill and human resources talent before their RfAs but almost immediately became sloppy, touchy and puerile afterwards. A few of them on here even!
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MBisanz |
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Senior Member
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QUOTE(Lar @ Wed 24th June 2009, 11:42pm) QUOTE(A Horse With No Name @ Wed 24th June 2009, 2:01pm) To be frank, I cannot name any person on Wikipedia who improved as an editor after becoming an admin.
I wrote my first(1) FA after becoming an admin. Whether that's a sign that I improved as an editor is not necessarily clear to me 1 - and so far, my only one... writing an FA takes a significant chunk of time. Or did me anyway. I had 1 DYK when I passed RFA, I now have 25 DYKs, 2 FLs, and 1 GA, although I do have to admit that most of them are on boring topics.
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Kelly Martin |
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Bring back the guttersnipes!
Group: Regulars
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From: EN61bw
Member No.: 6,696
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QUOTE(MBisanz @ Wed 24th June 2009, 7:01pm) I had 1 DYK when I passed RFA, I now have 25 DYKs, 2 FLs, and 1 GA, although I do have to admit that most of them are on boring topics. And I bet you cut a stunning sight in your Wikipedia Dress Uniform, what with all the cabbage you get to wear to go with all that alphabet soup. And yet, despite all that, you have still failed to do anything to actually help create an encyclopedia.
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MZMcBride |
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Ãœber Member
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QUOTE(Kelly Martin @ Wed 24th June 2009, 8:09pm) QUOTE(MBisanz @ Wed 24th June 2009, 7:01pm) I had 1 DYK when I passed RFA, I now have 25 DYKs, 2 FLs, and 1 GA, although I do have to admit that most of them are on boring topics. And I bet you cut a stunning sight in your Wikipedia Dress Uniform, what with all the cabbage you get to wear to go with all that alphabet soup. And yet, despite all that, you have still failed to do anything to actually help create an encyclopedia. Wait a minute. Acronyms and initialisms aside, MBisanz is saying he's created featured lists and new articles (with "Did you know" hooks). Yet he's "failed to do anything to actually help create an encyclopedia"? I'm lost.
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Kelly Martin |
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Bring back the guttersnipes!
Group: Regulars
Posts: 3,270
Joined:
From: EN61bw
Member No.: 6,696
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QUOTE(MZMcBride @ Wed 24th June 2009, 8:22pm) Wait a minute. Acronyms and initialisms aside, MBisanz is saying he's created featured lists and new articles (with "Did you know" hooks). Yet he's "failed to do anything to actually help create an encyclopedia"? I'm lost. "Did you know" hooks are rarely encyclopedic; they're closer to "hey, look at the neat meaningless trivia I discovered", the sort of thing that the rest of us use Twitter to get. "Featured lists" are a concept invented by Wikipediots jealous that their writing skills (or political savvy) are too lame to negotiate the Featured Article minefield, so they too could get wikicabbage on their wikiuniforms. Creating lists is not remotely encyclopedic behavior; at best that is almanac level work. When you guys start writing good, solid, high-level syntheses of broad topics for consumption by a general audience, that's when you'll be creating an encyclopedia. Discovering and cataloging mindless trivia doesn't cut it.
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Cla68 |
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Postmaster
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QUOTE(Kelly Martin @ Thu 25th June 2009, 1:28am) When you guys start writing good, solid, high-level syntheses of broad topics for consumption by a general audience, that's when you'll be creating an encyclopedia. Discovering and cataloging mindless trivia doesn't cut it.
To return back to the original subject of this thread, I think Wikipedia has lost a lot of editors who had the potential of being able to do what you mention above, but left after they saw how disorganized, amateurish, and chaotic Wikipedia's administration was. The first time a relatively inexperienced editor takes a complaint to ANI, AN, or Jimbo's talk page, the response they receive is really important. If it's ignored or answered in a flippant, insipid, or ineffective way, then don't be surprised if many of them suddenly decide that there are much better things that they could be doing with their time. By the way, Giano has opened another page to discuss possible solutions here. RDH has already made some excellent suggestions. This post has been edited by Cla68:
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A Horse With No Name |
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I have as much free time as a Wikipedia admin!
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Posts: 4,471
Joined:
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QUOTE(sbrown @ Sun 28th June 2009, 5:23am) QUOTE(Cla68 @ Sat 27th June 2009, 11:14pm) The first time a relatively inexperienced editor takes a complaint to ANI, AN, or Jimbo's talk page, the response they receive is really important. If it's ignored or answered in a flippant, insipid, or ineffective way, then don't be surprised if many of them suddenly decide that there are much better things that they could be doing with their time.
And of course if there blocked there very unlikely to come back. AN and ANI is strictly a clubhouse for a select few within the Wikipedia community. You see the same names turning up over and over, and anyone outside of their tight circle is inevitably treated like crap if they turn up with a complaint.
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