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thekohser
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A Wikipedia essay that tried to extend WP:BLP protections to articles about corporations was recently burned and scattered to the wind -- the "public" reason being the essay was created by a banned user. I think the "private" reason is one more familiar to us, though -- such a policy would fly in the face of Wikipedia's real purpose as the world's largest online defamation platform.

How can you tweak Crisco's nose, if you're going to be subjected to duty of care policies about corporations?!

Anyway, I have asked three administrators if they would issue me the contents of the deleted essay. One has refused, while the other two have not responded.

Is there a functional admin somewhere who could reproduce here the contents of the deleted essay?

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Somey
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I would just like to go on record (actually, I believe I've said this in at least one earler thread) that I personally don't believe corporations should be treated as people at all, and that includes on Wikipedia. I'd be concerned that applying BLP standards to corporations would just water down the existing rules, though admittedly the existing rules are already extremely watered-down from what they should be.

What WP really needs is some sort of new guiding principle with respect to articles containing criticism of corporations - that being, "would this content threaten to put a significant percentage of the company's staff out of work"? And if so, that shouldn't be added to the article unless there's a criminal conviction or some other ironclad factual sourcing for such content. (And it should also require a good deal of pre-publication review, not that anyone on WP really believes in things like that.) Whereas, if the content would threaten just one person's position, and by that I mean the CEO's in most cases, then properly-sourced allegations might be appropriate even if a conviction hasn't (yet) been obtained.

But that's just me; these days I'm becoming increasingly anti-corporate personally, so y'all can take that with a grain of salt if you wish.
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anthony
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QUOTE(Somey @ Sun 20th March 2011, 12:38am) *

I would just like to go on record (actually, I believe I've said this in at least one earler thread) that I personally don't believe corporations should be treated as people at all, and that includes on Wikipedia.


Not at all? What does it mean for corporations to not be treated as people "at all"? The fact that a corporation is treated sorta kinda like a person is, I'd say, essential to the definition of "corporation" (more specifically, it is essential to the definition of "legal entity", of which a corporation is one form among several).
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Somey
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QUOTE(anthony @ Sat 19th March 2011, 7:56pm) *
Not at all? What does it mean for corporations to not be treated as people "at all"? The fact that a corporation is treated sorta kinda like a person is, I'd say, essential to the definition of "corporation" (more specifically, it is essential to the definition of "legal entity", of which a corporation is one form among several).

You make some very good points, of course - in terms of legal entityhood (is that a word?), if a society clearly wants it to be possible for people to indemnify themselves against various forms of liability for wrongdoing by being part of a corporation (some would say "hiding behind," though), then that's a legitimate thing for society to do.

But in addition to liability, the usual context(s) we discuss here are reputation, accountability, and security. The context of "liability" would probably encompass the various distinctions between criminal/immoral activity and lawful/moral activity, but even if it doesn't, let's just say it does for the sake of brevity.

As a group of people, a corporation naturally will attempt to avoid liability, defend its reputation, and ensure its security. And, it may or may not choose to be accountable in relation to whatever it and its owners/members/employees do. There isn't anything we can do about this; it's simply the natural result of people operating as a group, and if society gives specific kinds of groups certain rights that other groups don't get to have, then so be it - as long as society can also take those rights away when that's in society's best interests.

So... when I say corporations shouldn't be treated as people, I'm mostly talking about an individual choice. Individuals such as myself don't have to agree to support the notion that people operating as a group should be treated separately (in any of those aforementioned contexts) from the group itself, as a "legal entity," when considering the actions of that group. We just have to agree to respect the law, even if we don't always like or agree with what the law says.

You can also turn some of the arguments in favor of corporate personhood around to some extent; for example, a corporation can, and is by definition, owned by one or more people. So to properly support the idea that corporations are legally equivalent to people, you'd have to allow people (and/or corporations) to own other people too, and then claim that the actions of the people they own are not really their own actions. It sounds ridiculous because it is, but slavery has existed for a long time, it still exists today in some parts of the world, and it will probably still exist for the foreseeable future. It's not as far-fetched as we'd like to believe. So it has to be fought; and if it can't be stopped, it at least has to be minimized and contained.
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Cock-up-over-conspiracy
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Are corporations people?

No, they are psychopaths. To be a person, one needs a little humanity. The question then, why are they psychopaths? A reflection of the time, place and people that invented them in a world without social, environmental and ethical responsibilities perhaps?

It strikes me that the law has been created somewhat wiki-like, an individual or gang gets in first, drives home their POV, then spends the rest of time defending it against new interest groups until eventually one breaks down gives up, without small incremental changes being achieved on the way.
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anthony
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QUOTE(Cock-up-over-conspiracy @ Sun 20th March 2011, 1:04pm) *

Are corporations people?

No, they are psychopaths.


Aren't psychopaths people?
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Corporations can be "defamed" and can sue on that basis.

Wikipedia, to the extent that its rules regarding biographies of living people are predicated on preventing any suits about defamation likely should have rules preventing "commercial defamation" as well.

Nothing to do with corporations being "people" but rather to do with the ability of Wikipedia to handle such lawsuits. At this point, Wikipedia appears to routinely remove material brought to its attention which falls into this category, but the community consensus on policies has not thus far followed suit.
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Posts in this topic
thekohser   Are corporations people?  
nableezy   A Wikipedia essay that tried to extend WP:BLP pro...  
thekohser   I dont see what in BLP should not be applied to e...  
Kelly Martin   Of course this is absurd. For a significant porti...  
gomi   For a significant portion of Wikipedia's commu...  
Sxeptomaniac   Of course this is absurd. For a significant port...  
Jon Awbrey   One corporation trying to control opinion about ot...  
Tarc   Is there a functional admin somewhere who could re...  
thekohser   Thanks, Tarc. One very KnightLago of the ArbCom a...  
Jon Awbrey   Are corporations people? No, they are psychopat...  
Cock-up-over-conspiracy   Aren't psychopaths people? Nah, sub-humans. Th...  
anthony   [quote name='anthony' post='271222' date='Sat 19t...  
anthony   What WP really needs is some sort of new [i]guidi...  
EricBarbour   (I'm saying this based on an assumption that a...  
MZMcBride   Corporate personhood?  
anthony   Corporate personhood? That's one (or more t...  
Jon Awbrey   A Wikipedia essay that tried to extend WP:BLP pro...  
Rhindle   Corporate personhood provides just the benefits of...  
Milton Roe   Corporate personhood provides just the benefits o...  
anthony   Also, corporations can be fined and even subjecte...  
anthony   Why can't a corporation be prosecuted for mur...  
Jon Awbrey   You Heard the Myth, Now Read the Reality — ...  
Jon Awbrey   I think I once posted links to a couple of survey ...  
Jon Awbrey   Ending Corporate Governance Timeline of Personhoo...  
Jon Awbrey   Thom Hartmann • [i]Unequal Protection[list] ...  


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