Slim & Jay: Gone?, Linda and "Jay", bye Options

[Viridae]

Considering the way that Jayjg and SlimVirgin have been given free reign to control articles relating to Israel and Palestine by Mr. Wales we should also look at his appointment of Danny Wool who was formerly CHIEF EDUCATOR AT THE MUSEUM OF JEWISH HERITAGE IN NEW YORK. I suppose that is just a coincidence right? I notice that a Ruth Mack is listed in the Board of Overseers of the Museum here but she may be unconnected.

These are good questions. They are also questions the WMF Trustees need to ask.

What are they going to say? "We think that that there has been an organized campaign by certain Jewish lobbyists to control content on Wikipedia and we think you J Wales have fully assisted them in doing that"? Jimbo would just dismiss them as anti-semites/conspiracy theorists and appoint new trustees.

For a start they should rigorously identify and vet all person with Checkuser privleges. These vetting should be made public with real identities of Checkuser revealed. Additionally the board needs to investigate the possibility that intelligence agencies are misusing the project.

To have checkuser you must have sent identifying documents to the foundation as I remember.

[tarantino]

For a start they should rigorously identify and vet all person with Checkuser privleges. These vetting should be made public with real identities of Checkuser revealed. Additionally the board needs to investigate the possibility that intelligence agencies are misusing the project.

Is it known if Jayjg has been involved in disclosing the identities of people who wish to remain anonymous?

[Jonny Cache]

To have checkuser you must have sent identifying documents to the foundation as I remember.

I'm sure the above commentators mean "vetted by trustworthy people" and "identified to the public at large". That's what accountability means in the Real World.

Jonny

[jorge]

Considering the way that Jayjg and SlimVirgin have been given free reign to control articles relating to Israel and Palestine by Mr. Wales we should also look at his appointment of Danny Wool who was formerly CHIEF EDUCATOR AT THE MUSEUM OF JEWISH HERITAGE IN NEW YORK. I suppose that is just a coincidence right? I notice that a Ruth Mack is listed in the Board of Overseers of the Museum here but she may be unconnected.

These are good questions. They are also questions the WMF Trustees need to ask.

What are they going to say? "We think that that there has been an organized campaign by certain Jewish lobbyists to control content on Wikipedia and we think you J Wales have fully assisted them in doing that"? Jimbo would just dismiss them as anti-semites/conspiracy theorists and appoint new trustees.

For a start they should rigorously identify and vet all person with Checkuser privleges. These vetting should be made public with real identities of Checkuser revealed. Additionally the board needs to investigate the possibility that intelligence agencies are misusing the project.

For anyone who thought that Danny's previous job might be insignificant- thinking perhaps that the Museum of Jewish Heritage in New York was just "some museum" - please think again - look at the board members of that museum and you'll basically see the nexus of Jewish/Israel lobbying in the United States. So Danny Wool was chief educator there and by a complete coincidence, he ends up as no.2 at Wikimedia in charge of "educating" the entire world no less (in all languages too!)!! Oh and I'm sure Jayjg and Danny Wool knew nothing about each other before Wikipedia

[Somey]

I know it's probably a bit late in the game for this, but could I just chime in here in support of Jorge, and say that there's just no way in hell that "Andrew Blum" is Jayjg?

Uhh, thanks...

[blissyu2]

Ruth Mack could be a relative. But a last name like that might be meaningless. I mean has anyone considered the possibility that Jayjg is a woman? Or that Jayjg and SlimVirgin are related in some way?

Just tossing one up in the air here. I mean when you're on the internet, unless you know for sure who someone is, you don't know which gender they are either. People's personalities supposedly let you tell who they are, but apparently based on how I write, I am without question a woman, and of course I'm not a woman, so I think that we might be getting confused about Jayjg.

The Ruth Mack link might be significant.

[The Adversary]

On another note: as was noted in another thread, Slim came back on the 10th to "delete stuff"; socalled "courtesy deletion" of everything connected with banned user:Robert I. Those deletions are anything but uncontroversial.

First; user:Robert I was assumed to be one of the sockpuppets of Gregory Lauder-Frost ...see e.g http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...ry_Lauder-Frost

Slim was heavily involved with the (now deleted) WP article on him (long story cut short: GLF does not want publicity about his early 1990-jail-sentence); ----the uncensored version is still at Wikitruth: http://www.wikitruth.info/index.php?title=...ry_Lauder-Frost


user:Robert I came up for Arb., which resulted in a "temporary" ban, which has turned out to be permanent so far; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Req...uests#January_2


And now Slim have "courtesy deleted" the whole arb. com case! Note that this Arb. case is the ONLY one ever to be completely deleted (AFAICS) -I didn´t even know that was allowed (does this mean that others can have their arb.com cases deleted, too?)


Amusingly, it was Slim herself who inserted: "The right to vanish does not extend to pages retained for the purposes of protecting the website against disruption; for example requests for arbitration, requests for check user, or sockpuppet categories" into
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Right_to_vanish


So; doesn´t Slimmys actions here contradict the very policies she herself has written?

[Infoboy]

On another note: as was noted in another thread, Slim came back on the 10th to "delete stuff"; socalled "courtesy deletion" of everything connected with banned user:Robert I. Those deletions are anything but uncontroversial.

First; user:Robert I was assumed to be one of the sockpuppets of Gregory Lauder-Frost ...see e.g http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...ry_Lauder-Frost

Slim was heavily involved with the (now deleted) WP article on him (long story cut short: GLF does not want publicity about his early 1990-jail-sentence); ----the uncensored version is still at Wikitruth: http://www.wikitruth.info/index.php?title=...ry_Lauder-Frost


user:Robert I came up for Arb., which resulted in a "temporary" ban, which has turned out to be permanent so far; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Req...uests#January_2


And now Slim have "courtesy deleted" the whole arb. com case! Note that this Arb. case is the ONLY one ever to be completely deleted (AFAICS) -I didn´t even know that was allowed (does this mean that others can have their arb.com cases deleted, too?)


Amusingly, it was Slim herself who inserted: "The right to vanish does not extend to pages retained for the purposes of protecting the website against disruption; for example requests for arbitration, requests for check user, or sockpuppet categories" into
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Right_to_vanish


So; doesn´t Slimmys actions here contradict the very policies she herself has written?

Someone REALLY ought to post to ArbCom for clarification on that. Bullshit moves.

[Jonny Cache]

Someone REALLY ought to post to ArbCom for clarification on that. Bullshit moves.

Yup, that's where I shop for all my Clarification needs ...

Or is that Clarabelle ???

Honk ! Honk ! Honk !

Jonny

This post has been edited by Jonny Cache: Sun 12th August 2007, 6:14am

[Robster]

So; doesn´t Slimmys actions here contradict the very policies she herself has written?

Someone REALLY ought to post to ArbCom for clarification on that. Bullshit moves.

I think we've pretty well established that ArbCom couldn't clarify a glass of spring water.

[blissyu2]

Well, can she wipe my Arb Com case? Quite frankly ArbCom is nothing but a smear campaign.

[Herschelkrustofsky]

I think we've pretty well established that ArbCom couldn't clarify a glass of spring water.

[Jonny Cache]

Well, can she wipe my Arb Com case? Quite frankly ArbCom is nothing but a smear campaign.

Wipe your Arbcom ???

Hell, they don't even know how to wipe their own Arses !!!

Oh wait — it's kinda the same thing ...

Exercise for the Reader. Make up your own joke about "smear campaign".

Jonny

This post has been edited by Jonny Cache: Sun 12th August 2007, 5:32pm

[Heat]

The ArbComm case is going to proceed but, if history is any judge, the most the ArbComm will do is "admonish" Jay for the nth time.

This post has been edited by Heat: Sun 12th August 2007, 2:57pm

[blissyu2]

The ArbComm case is going to proceed but, if history is any judge, the most the ArbComm will do is "admonish" Jay for the nth time.

Probably. But they may also apply some minor punishment.

Or alternatively they might go after all of the others and praise Jayjg.

[jorge]

The ArbComm case is going to proceed but, if history is any judge, the most the ArbComm will do is "admonish" Jay for the nth time.

Probably. But they may also apply some minor punishment.

Or alternatively they might go after all of the others and praise Jayjg.

I think Jay has had enough chances. I believe the WP:POINT actions he made in relation to the multiple Apartheid articles was possibly just a rouse to get himself banned knowing full well that either he has a sock or there is someone else in place to take over his role. I really can't see how Wales is going to change his attitude to Israel/Palestine articles as his motivation for starting Wikipedia was clearly, and he even stated as much to destroy the established educational sources that he perceived had a Liberal/Academic bias on issues such as Israel/Palestine.

[blissyu2]

I think Jay has had enough chances. I believe the WP:POINT actions he made in relation to the multiple Apartheid articles was possibly just a rouse to get himself banned knowing full well that either he has a sock or there is someone else in place to take over his role. I really can't see how Wales is going to change his attitude to Israel/Palestine articles as his motivation for starting Wikipedia was clearly, and he even stated as much to destroy the established educational sources that he perceived had a Liberal/Academic bias on issues such as Israel/Palestine.

Why would Jayjg be satisfied with letting someone else take over? A sock, sure, but surely he wouldn't just abdicate, would he?

[Heat]

The ArbComm case is going to proceed but, if history is any judge, the most the ArbComm will do is "admonish" Jay for the nth time.

Probably. But they may also apply some minor punishment.

Or alternatively they might go after all of the others and praise Jayjg.

I think Jay has had enough chances. I believe the WP:POINT actions he made in relation to the multiple Apartheid articles was possibly just a rouse to get himself banned knowing full well that either he has a sock or there is someone else in place to take over his role. I really can't see how Wales is going to change his attitude to Israel/Palestine articles as his motivation for starting Wikipedia was clearly, and he even stated as much to destroy the established educational sources that he perceived had a Liberal/Academic bias on issues such as Israel/Palestine.

I doubt Jay will be banned but it does look like he's tried the patience of his more senior allies. FloNight, who was basically Jay and SV's candidate for ArbComm, has turned against him and decided not to stand in the way of the case going to ArbComm. This is a major reversal!

There may even be a bit of a rift between Jay and SV since she's stayed completely out of these recent apartheid wars and hasn't made her usual intervention in the RFA request accusing everyone else of "disruption" and defending Jay to the hilt.

The whole Hasbara scandal has hit like a ton of bricks. There's no reason to think Hasbara hasn't had a team on Wikipedia for some time and, if it does, then the apartheid articles are obviously Hasbara-inspired. There is circumstantial evidence, at least, that Hasbara members are among the Apartheid warriors and since Jay is leading the charge it would be foolish not to at least suspect him of working on their behalf.

BTW, I can now confirm the URL that Jay accidentally posted on someone's page and oversighted moments later. Though I haven't heard back from the person whose page he posted on, I've heard independently from several sources that this is the link:

http://www.onex.ca/index.taf?pid=64&_UserR...59B08C4469948B9

Jay meant to post a diff but accidentally posted the above link and quickly oversighted it and replaced it with a diff when he was informed of his mistake. Why did he oversight rather than simply correct his mistake?

Onex is a fairly large and powerful Canadian company owned by Gerald (Gerry) Schwartz who is also one of the leading members of the Israel lobby in Canada. You can read more about him here:

http://canadiandimension.com/articles/2005/11/01/209/

According to a recent profile in Toronto Life, Concordia was a wake-up call for the so-called “power couple,” Heather Reisman and Gerald Schwartz. Reisman, niece of free-trade negotiator Simon Reisman, is CEO of Indigo/Chapters Books. Her husband, Gerry, Liberal Party chief fundraiser and former co-founder of CanWest Global Communications, is CEO of Onex Corporation. As fundraisers, both enjoyed “exceptional closeness to [Prime Minister Paul] Martin” and were eager to “flex their newfound political clout.” Trying to “decode their agenda,” Toronto Life noted that the first signs of their intentions had surfaced immediately after the Concordia controversy. “Shocked into action, Schwartz and Reisman summoned a group of fellow philanthropists, including Toronto tycoons Larry Tanenbaum and Brent Belzberg, to plot a counter-strategy.” Tanenbaum is co-owner of the Toronto Maple Leafs, and venture capitalist Belzberg owns Torquest Partners. The four gathered together a select group of like-minded and monied colleagues and “self-appointed” themselves the “Israel Emergency Cabinet,” intent upon lending “more conviction and financial muscle” to advocacy for Israel in Canada. The Toronto Star observed that “the membership of the emergency cabinet reads like a who’s who of power and influence among the Jewish community” and that “some members are well known for their hawkish opinions favoring Israel in the long and bloody Middle East conflict.”

In addition to Reisman, Schwartz, Tanenbaum and Belzberg, the group included Senator Leo Kolber, former director of the Toronto-Dominion Bank, Seagrams and Loews Cineplex; Israel Asper, co-founder and CEO of CanWest Global; Stephen Reitman, whose family owns Reitman’s clothing stores; Julia Koschitzky, whose family fortune derives from the IKO Group, global manufacturer of construction materials; and Stephen Cummings, CEO of Maxwell Cummings. Together, the group represented billions of dollars in assets, which its members knew how to use. Over the next year, through the facilitation of the United Israel Appeal Federation, which funded both the Canadian Jewish Congress (CJC) and the Canada-Israel Committee (CIC), the Emergency Cabinet morphed into the CIJA. Chaired by Tanenbaum, Belzberg and Cummings, CIJA eventually brought both the CJC and the CIC under its effective control. The stated aim of the new umbrella organization was to double the funding for Israel advocacy in Canada and make it more “pro-active".

We know that Jayjg had the Onex page in his browser and accidentally pasted it onto wikipedia. We also know that he quickly used oversight to remove his error and that oversight is a tool that is meant to only be used to remove information that is libelous or which reveals personal information about someone. Why then, would Jayg so quickly use oversight to remove this link if it didn't give some sort of hint about his identity? My guess is that Jayjg is either an employee of Onex or of Gerry Schwartz or has some sort of other personal or professional link with them or with Schwartz' other main enterprise, the "Council on Israel Jewish Advocacy".

This post has been edited by Heat: Sun 12th August 2007, 4:33pm

[blissyu2]

We know that Jayjg had the Onex page in his browser and accidentally pasted it onto wikipedia. We also know that he quickly used oversight to remove his error and that oversight is a tool that is meant to only be used to remove information that is libelous or which reveals personal information about someone. Why then, would Jayg so quickly use oversight to remove this link if it didn't give some sort of hint about his identity? My guess is that Jayjg is either an employee of Onex or of Gerry Schwartz or has some sort of other personal or professional link with them or with Schwartz' other main enterprise, the "Council on Israel Jewish Advocacy".

If that's true, then it's a good catch. But can you prove it?

[Heat]

We know that Jayjg had the Onex page in his browser and accidentally pasted it onto wikipedia. We also know that he quickly used oversight to remove his error and that oversight is a tool that is meant to only be used to remove information that is libelous or which reveals personal information about someone. Why then, would Jayg so quickly use oversight to remove this link if it didn't give some sort of hint about his identity? My guess is that Jayjg is either an employee of Onex or of Gerry Schwartz or has some sort of other personal or professional link with them or with Schwartz' other main enterprise, the "Council on Israel Jewish Advocacy".

If that's true, then it's a good catch. But can you prove it?

I have independent verification from people who clicked the link before Jay removed it and since more than one person gave me the same link without knowing what anyone else was sending me I am reasonably confident that this is the link.

I suppose it can only be absolutely verified by another person with Oversight capacity who can examine Jay's oversights from July 31 immediately prior to 5:51 wikitime. If it's not true, let an Oversighter say "No, this wasn't the link that was removed".