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Can Jayjg be stopped?, Middle-aged management guy, or wacky teenager? |
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The Adversary |
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CT (Check Troll)
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QUOTE(gomi @ Tue 6th March 2007, 7:25am) Mr. Brandt believes he is from Williamsburg, NY, USA, works in management, and is in his 40s.
I assume Brandt got the "works in management, and is in his 40s" info from Jay himself, as that was what he stated during arb.com elections, Jan. 2006: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arb...didates_by_jgukBrandt states that Jay is from from Williamsburg, NY, USA(?). I don´t know where he got that from, but googeling brings: http://www.ynetnews.com/Ext/App/TalkBack/C...3161625,00.html And very few on Wikipedia have been so careful covering their identity as Jay. You will be banned for just asking if he is payed to edit Wikipedia...no kidding. (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/ph34r.gif)
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WordBomb |
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QUOTE(Heat @ Mon 5th March 2007, 11:31pm) Paid lobbyist? Who does he work for? What is his real name? What city is he posting from? Any clues?
My data suggest he works from his home, situated outside Toronto, Canada. Likely in the vicinity of Ajax. I'm 99% certain he made this "oops!" anon edit and quick revert back in 2005. The IP you see (69.196.8.45) seems to be unassigned currently, but as recently as a few months ago, it mapped to Thornhill, Ontario, a northern sector of Toronto. Then last year, Jayjg appears to have relocated east of the city.
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anon1234 |
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QUOTE(WordBomb @ Tue 6th March 2007, 8:31pm) QUOTE(Heat @ Mon 5th March 2007, 11:31pm) Paid lobbyist? Who does he work for? What is his real name? What city is he posting from? Any clues?
My data suggest he works from his home, situated outside Toronto, Canada. Likely in the vicinity of Ajax. I'm 99% certain he made this "oops!" anon edit and quick revert back in 2005. The IP you see (69.196.8.45) seems to be unassigned currently, but as recently as a few months ago, it mapped to Thornhill, Ontario, a northern sector of Toronto. Then last year, Jayjg appears to have relocated east of the city. I also had an inkling that he was based near Toronto, Canada. There were some other coincidences that suggested this, but there was no solid evidence. This post has been edited by anon1234:
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anon1234 |
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QUOTE(The Adversary @ Tue 6th March 2007, 9:22pm) quote: "I also had an inkling that he was based near Toronto, Canada. There were some other coincidences that suggested this, but there was no solid evidence." Links, please! IP address: 74.108.30.192. Reverse DNS: CPE000c4141a0d3-CM000a7369bd22.cpe.net.cable.rogers.comGeolocation: Toronto, Ontario. At first, I gave the odds of it being Jayjg's IP at roughly 2:1 in favor. The coincidences appeared meaningful but I came to doubt their validity after learning that Jayjg was "known" to be located in NYC. After learning that Jayjg himself is the only source of evidence of his linkage to NYC and that there are others who believe Jayjg is located in Toronto, Canada, I have renewed semi-confidence in my original suspicions. QUOTE(guy @ Tue 6th March 2007, 9:54pm) Last time I checked, he seems not to edit on the Jewish sabbath and festivals, so he's an orthodox Jew. A little sophisticated analysis should confirm which time zone he's in. I correlated that evidence some time ago and it fits with his being in the North American Eastern Time Zone (GMT-05:00.) There are many major cities in this time zone including both New York City and Toronto, Canada. UPDATE: If Jayjg has a dynamic IP then it is likely the suspected IP I listed above is of historical interest only as it isn't especially fresh.
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a view from the hive |
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Junior Member
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QUOTE(anon1234 @ Tue 6th March 2007, 4:11pm) Here is Jayjg's first few months on Wikipedia, its buried in the history of User_talk:Jayjg/Archive_8 for some reason. I don't see any clues to his identity though. On a side note, Danny's AOL ID is "LITTLE BOOTS". Just a friendly reminder, the point of the WR isn't to harass people.... it's for constructive discussion not a "I hate you so I'm going to harass you" forum. Harassing / the intent to harass Danny without disclosing your full identity is in violation of US Law (thanks Daniel for pointing that out). Danny isn't evil, he's a human being just like the rest of us..... please try and be nice. On the other hand, what is with the attempts to "track" people down. In the real world we call it stalking..... it's generally seen as a crime. Does it really matter if you know where a person lives or not? One can very easily use proxies to mask their location, it basically ruins geoIP as a detection method.
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WordBomb |
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QUOTE(guy @ Tue 6th March 2007, 5:54pm) QUOTE(WordBomb @ Tue 6th March 2007, 8:31pm) I'm 99% certain he made this "oops!" anon edit and quick revert back in 2005. He'd have deleted the talk page and restored it without that edit. Today, yes. But did he have that authority/audacity back in September of 2005?
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anon1234 |
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Senior Member
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QUOTE(a view from the hive @ Wed 7th March 2007, 12:33am) Just a friendly reminder, the point of the WR isn't to harass people.... it's for constructive discussion not a "I hate you so I'm going to harass you" forum. Harassing / the intent to harass Danny without disclosing your full identity is in violation of US Law (thanks Daniel for pointing that out). Danny isn't evil, he's a human being just like the rest of us..... please try and be nice. I wasn't recommending that people actually contact Danny, let alone harass him. It was just something strange that popped out on the page. I have redacted it from my original comment, I suggest you do the same in your quotation of my original comment. QUOTE On the other hand, what is with the attempts to "track" people down. In the real world we call it stalking..... it's generally seen as a crime. Does it really matter if you know where a person lives or not? One can very easily use proxies to mask their location, it basically ruins geoIP as a detection method. There is a significant legal difference between uncovering someone identity and stalking. Jayjg is one of the few users whom we haven't yet identified. Jayjg himself engages in similar online investigations of mysterious identities that catch his attention: User:Jayjg/MysteryI can now add that someone pointed me to a third line of independent evidence that solidly links Jayjg to Toronto, Canada. This time the information is from early 2006. The IP is near identical to the one I gave above in that it geo-resolves to Toronto, Canada and it gives up in a R-DNS query an address that terminates in "*.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com."
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anon1234 |
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QUOTE(WordBomb @ Wed 7th March 2007, 12:37am) QUOTE(guy @ Tue 6th March 2007, 5:54pm) QUOTE(WordBomb @ Tue 6th March 2007, 8:31pm) I'm 99% certain he made this "oops!" anon edit and quick revert back in 2005. He'd have deleted the talk page and restored it without that edit. Today, yes. But did he have that authority/audacity back in September of 2005? Jayjg granted "checkuser" rights: 10:10, 12 November 2005 Datrio (Talk | contribs) changed group membership for User:Jayjg@enwiki from sysop to sysop, checkuserJayjg granted "oversight" rights: 13:34, 29 May 2006 Oscar (Talk | contribs) changed group membership for User:Jayjg@enwiki from checkuser, sysop to checkuser, sysop, oversightThis post has been edited by anon1234:
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Somey |
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Can't actually moderate (or even post)
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QUOTE(a view from the hive @ Tue 6th March 2007, 6:33pm) Just a friendly reminder, the point of the WR isn't to harass people.... Just what is the point of WR, anyway? I was under the impression it existed just to feed me easy straight lines, but now I'm not so sure anymore... QUOTE it's for constructive discussion not a "I hate you so I'm going to harass you" forum. Harassing / the intent to harass Danny without disclosing your full identity is in violation of US Law... On the other hand, what is with the attempts to "track" people down. In the real world we call it stalking..... it's generally seen as a crime... I'm afraid the insistence on calling it "stalking" and "harassment" probably just makes it worse, though. Once you've accused your opponent of the worst thing he's ever likely to do, what does he have to lose by actually doing it? Remember, we don't allow posting of street addresses, phone numbers, private e-mail addresses, things of that nature. (Don't all try it at once...) And please refer to this post and maybe this one, as I don't care to go over it again at the moment. QUOTE Does it really matter if you know where a person lives or not? One can very easily use proxies to mask their location, it basically ruins geoIP as a detection method. In Jayjg's case, it probably doesn't matter. Frankly, I doubt we'll ever figure out who he is unless he tells us. He's too careful... He's like a ghost, slipping in and out of the shadows with no more footprint than a wisp of smoke... And you're right, ever since the whole Hivemind thing started, there's probably at least a dozen private co-located proxy machines out there for folks like Slimmy and Jayjg to remote into, not associated with any domain or DNS entity whatsoever, just sitting there in enormous virtual server farms all over the globe - all expertly configured for maximum anonymity protection. (Pretty cool, actually!) QUOTE(anon1234 @ Tue 6th March 2007, 6:56pm) Jayjg is one of the few users whom we haven't yet identified. Jayjg himself engages in similar online investigations of mysterious identities that catch his attention: User:Jayjg/MysteryWho was he trying to finger there, User:Grace_Note? I had no idea. He used to have an account here, didn't he? Before my time... The fact is, of all the "checkuser" admins, Jayjg is by far the single most often-accused of misusing his feature access for non-kosher purposes, and almost certainly for good reason. I still don't think we're ever going to identify him without some sort of deus ex machina, but it's just inevitable that people would want to know who he is. Of course, if he turns out to be Brian Peppers, people here are gonna be pissed! (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/mad.gif)
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anon1234 |
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QUOTE(Heat @ Tue 6th March 2007, 3:31am) Paid lobbyist? Who does he work for? What is his real name? What city is he posting from? Any clues? Did a bunch of research looking for topic areas where Jayjg is abnormally knowledgeable. This means that I had to filter out the ethnic conflict and discrimination topics that are the favorite time wasters over at Wikipedia. What was left was a lot of Jewish topics, which isn't a surprise. I filtered out the general Judaism topics to see what stood out. After a while the pattern become obvious. Jayjg has very specific knowledge and interest in Chabad-Lubavitch, a large branch of Hasidic Judaism. I say this because of Jayjg's attention to the following articles (and his avoidance of topics not of relevance to Hasidic Judaism): What also stood out is that Jayjg rarely contributes new articles or sources. He prefers to edit war on the controversial articles, fight off vandals, and do minor clean ups on the topics he's genuinely interested in (such as those above.) Strange. QUOTE(Heat @ Wed 7th March 2007, 5:52am) If Jayjg is a paid staffer of a lobby group and uses his permissions to persecute critics of Israel it would make the essjay scandal pale in comparison. I highly doubt that Jayjg is paid. He's just an edit warrior on the controversial who has the admin bit. The biggest issue with Jayjg is his tendency to not contribute sources or new material in general, instead he falls back on simplistic and aggravating revert-based edit warring often progressing to a complete breakdown of WP:AGF. (The Chabad-Lubavitch branch of Judaism is now a strong supporter of Israel and takes a distinctly hard-line approach as described here: Haredim_and_Zionism#Chabad-Lubavitch.) - per Guy's comments. This post has been edited by Somey:
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Somey |
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Can't actually moderate (or even post)
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Chabad-Lubavitch, eh? I wonder if the appearance and/or favorable treatment of User:David_Spart, a follower of Chabad Messianism, might not be a coincidence, then...? In these diffs, "Spart" repeatedly blanks various warnings left by his perceived "nemesis," User:PinchasC (an admin): http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=110920885http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=110922240http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=110925252http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=110926191http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=110927621One would think ol' Sparty's on the Road to Block-land, but then Jayjg shows up and says he'll "try to help out": http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=110928539PinchasC quickly decides that discretion is the better part of valor, and blanks his own warnings!http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=110982196And next thing y'know, Sparty joins the Keep Brandt Brigade, and he's off on a nut-job rampage. Thanks a LOT, Jayjg... As if you hadn't done enough to deserve the extra scrutiny! (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/mad.gif)
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anon1234 |
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Senior Member
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QUOTE(Somey @ Wed 7th March 2007, 6:35am) Chabad-Lubavitch, eh? I wonder if the appearance and/or favorable treatment of User:David_Spart, a follower of Chabad Messianism, might not be a coincidence, then...? In case you are curious, the other significant contributors to the general Chabad-Lubavitch topic area are: User:IZAK (most prolific contributor by far), User:Jfdwolff (who nominated Jayjg for adminship), and User:Fintor.
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anon1234 |
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Senior Member
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QUOTE(guy @ Wed 7th March 2007, 10:03am) QUOTE(anon1234 @ Wed 7th March 2007, 6:00am) The Chabad-Lubavitch branch of Judaism is now a strong supporter of Israel and takes a distinctly hard-line approach as described here: Haredim_and_Zionism#Chabad-Lubavitch. That's a gross distortion. Chassidim in general deny the validity of the State of Israel on theological grounds (Jews should wait until the Messiah comes). Lubavitch aren't exempt from that view, though they don't emphasise it in the way that the Satmar or Belzer Chassidim do. On the other hand, they of course support the rights of individual Jews to practise their religion and to live in Biblically significant places like Jerusalem, which can be misconstrued as support for the State of Israel. Sorry about that. It was late and I was being sloppy. I understand quite well the Chassidim position, but I was noting in particular the distinct views of the last Lubavitcher Rebbe. I'm not even sure it is relevant, as most people make up their own minds and the last Rebbe passed away some time ago, I just got carried away with the CL stuff once I got into it. This post has been edited by anon1234:
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JohnA |
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Looking over Winston Smith's shoulder
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QUOTE(guy @ Wed 7th March 2007, 10:03am) QUOTE(anon1234 @ Wed 7th March 2007, 6:00am) The Chabad-Lubavitch branch of Judaism is now a strong supporter of Israel and takes a distinctly hard-line approach as described here: Haredim_and_Zionism#Chabad-Lubavitch. That's a gross distortion. Chassidim in general deny the validity of the State of Israel on theological grounds (Jews should wait until the Messiah comes). Lubavitch aren't exempt from that view, though they don't emphasise it in the way that the Satmar or Belzer Chassidim do. On the other hand, they of course support the rights of individual Jews to practise their religion and to live in Biblically significant places like Jerusalem, which can be misconstrued as support for the State of Israel. Its amazing the things you learn on WR
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anon1234 |
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QUOTE(anon1234 @ Wed 7th March 2007, 8:51pm) [Removed blog posting as I think it was someone impersonating Jayjg.] It turns out that Jayjg has a number of other accounts at various internet discussion sites: "Communion" Message BoardAccount #1: Jayjg (July 2000 - October 2002) Account #2: Jayjg613 (September 2002 - March 18, 2004) Posts: Google Search: Jayjg site:p078.ezboard.com, Google Search: jayjg613 site:p078.ezboard.comPreferred forums: "Catholic/Jewish Discussion" These accounts are on a privately run Jewish/Catholicism interfaith message board. Here is a characteristic post: Re: From a Jewish perspective, is Heaven earned? You'll note he mentions " Maimonides" (edited by Jayjg on WP), " Moshe Chaim Luzzatto" (edited by Jayjg on WP), and " Derech Hashem" (edited by Jayjg on WP). BeliefNet.Com Message BoardAccount: jayjg613 (August 2003 - October 2004) Preferred forum: Messianic Judaism DebatePosts: Google Search: jayjg613 site:beliefnet.comIt's another interfaith forum. Similar topics as the above. Some of the posts are extremely Wikipedia-like, such as this post of Jayjg613 from July 2004: QUOTE And I've asked before what souce you have which supports that view. You've mentioned before that you found one, what is it? Have you asked any Rabbis whether this is permitted? I'm done with this topic for the time being, time for someone else to take over if they are so inclined.
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anon1234 |
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QUOTE(guy @ Fri 9th March 2007, 10:14am) QUOTE jayjg613 QUOTE Jon513 Attention to detail is all-important. The number 613 has mystical significance to orthodox Jews, but I doubt that 513 does. I wouldn't completely discount this link. WordBomb has brought up Jon513 before and so have others. When people create new identities they often just vary their existing ones -- thus Jon instead of Jay and 513 instead of 613 (from the 613_mitzvot). It sounds very likely if it was infact a Jon behind Jayjg. We already know for a fact that Jayjg likes to follow SlimVirgin around. No conclusive proof yet, but I wouldn't completely discount it. QUOTE(Heat @ Fri 9th March 2007, 6:29pm) 2) The link to Canada isn't based on anything Jayjg has said online but on a dubious IP catch by Wordbomb whose method of circumstantial evidence has also placed SlimVirgin in a different location than commonly thought. Has Wordbomb falsified his method or used some sort of control to determine his accuracy? There are four separate lines of evidence from four separate individuals, only one of which is WordBomb, that suggest that he is based at least part of the time, or is using a series of proxies, in the Toronto, Canada area going back as far as mid-2005.
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anon1234 |
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QUOTE(Jonny Cache @ Fri 9th March 2007, 6:46pm) These are very speculative, but wot the hecque, may be worth following up ... - Jay => Toronta Blue Jays
- JG => J.G. Ballard, that Jayjg mentions or quotes on his user page
Jonny (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif) I don't think that the explanation JayJG gives on his user page is true. He uses the username too frequently elsewhere. I think it is similar to a Backronym, the explanation was obviously made up after the fact. JayJG shows no interest what so ever in birds, baseball or science fiction writers. Also, who uses the first two initials of a science fiction writer as the last two letters of their username? Does that make sense to you? It seems highly improbable to me. I think he just did a search for "JG" and picked the first acceptable candidate.
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Heat |
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Tenured
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QUOTE(Jonny Cache @ Fri 9th March 2007, 6:46pm) These are very speculative, but wot the hecque, may be worth following up ... - Jay => Toronta Blue Jays.
- JG => J.G. Ballard, who Jayjg mentions on his user page.
Of course, they could just be thrown out there as foils. Jonny (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif) For someone supposedly interested in JG Ballard it's interesting that Jay has never once edited that article. He's also never edited the Toronto Blue Jays article. The reference to the bird and the author were not added to his user page until January 10, 2006 about a year and a half after joining wikipedia, a little over a year after becoming an admin and several months after being appointed to ArbComm. The references are likely an attempt to throw out some red herrings and deflect stalkers.
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Jonny Cache |
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τα δε μοι παθήματα μαθήματα γÎγονε
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QUOTE(anon1234 @ Fri 9th March 2007, 1:51pm) QUOTE(Jonny Cache @ Fri 9th March 2007, 6:46pm) These are very speculative, but wot the hecque, may be worth following up ... - Jay => Toronto Blue Jays.
- JG => J.G. Ballard, who Jayjg quotes on his user page.
I don't think that the explanation JayJG gives on his user page is true. He uses the username too frequently elsewhere. I think it is similar to a Backronym, the explanation was obviously made up after the fact. JayJG shows no interest what so ever in birds, baseball or science fiction writers. Also, who uses the first two initials of a science fiction writer as the last two letters of their username? Does that make sense to you? It seems highly improbable to me. Most likely so, but it does betray a quaintance with at least one SF writer, and you may find names and themes from Ballard's work turning up elsewhere in Jayjg's associational complexes. I'm not into cross-word puzzles so much n.e.more, else I'd idyll aweigh a few daze on't. Jonny (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif) This post has been edited by Jonny Cache:
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