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MBisanz |
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Senior Member
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QUOTE(No one of consequence @ Mon 30th November 2009, 3:20am) QUOTE(MZMcBride @ Sun 29th November 2009, 8:27pm) Looking at the current list of CheckUsers, it looks pretty clean to me at this point. Might be nice to remove one or two people for inactivity, but most the problematic old guard seems to have been removed. One of Dominic's platform items in the Audit subcommittee election was removal of privileges for inactivity. Looking at Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee/Audit_Subcommittee/Statistics#Checkuser_statistics_.28Monthly.29, I have a hard time understanding why James, Jimbo, and VOA retain the right.
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No one of consequence |
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I want to stare at the seaside and do nothing at all
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QUOTE(MBisanz @ Mon 30th November 2009, 2:29am) QUOTE(No one of consequence @ Mon 30th November 2009, 3:20am) QUOTE(MZMcBride @ Sun 29th November 2009, 8:27pm) Looking at the current list of CheckUsers, it looks pretty clean to me at this point. Might be nice to remove one or two people for inactivity, but most the problematic old guard seems to have been removed. One of Dominic's platform items in the Audit subcommittee election was removal of privileges for inactivity. Looking at Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee/Audit_Subcommittee/Statistics#Checkuser_statistics_.28Monthly.29, I have a hard time understanding why James, Jimbo, and VOA retain the right. VOA is the developer who coded most of the CU interface. I don't know if he still works on the code at all, but that would obviously not show up in the log. There are a few people on that list, Stewards and other WMF office folk, who rarely use the tool, but who, realistically, are not going to have it removed by Arbcom for lack of activity. I suppose Jimbo fits in this category, heaven knows why.
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CharlotteWebb |
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Postmaster General
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QUOTE(Sarcasticidealist @ Mon 30th November 2009, 3:53am) QUOTE(No one of consequence @ Mon 30th November 2009, 12:06am) I suppose Jimbo fits in this category, heaven knows why. I thought Jimbo only gave himself that userright temporarily, to deal with something Bruce Edwards Ivins-related? I don't feel like arguing about whether it is appropriate for him to be able to add or remove this right from his own account at any time (without requiring approval from any other entity), but… …as long as this is the case, I think it would be best to just leave it enabled so that observers know exactly how many people have access to this tool. You know, to avoid surprises. I mean it's not really fair to the other checkusers, who cannot simply use this tool and then obscure the fact that they had access to it.
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Cimorene |
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Neophyte
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QUOTE(CharlotteWebb @ Sun 29th November 2009, 10:24pm) QUOTE(Sarcasticidealist @ Mon 30th November 2009, 3:53am) QUOTE(No one of consequence @ Mon 30th November 2009, 12:06am) I suppose Jimbo fits in this category, heaven knows why. I thought Jimbo only gave himself that userright temporarily, to deal with something Bruce Edwards Ivins-related? I don't feel like arguing about whether it is appropriate for him to be able to add or remove this right from his own account at any time (without requiring approval from any other entity), but… …as long as this is the case, I think it would be best to just leave it enabled so that observers know exactly how many people have access to this tool. You know, to avoid surprises. I mean it's not really fair to the other checkusers, who cannot simply use this tool and then obscure the fact that they had access to it. Yeah, I agree. Being able to grant yourself sensitive user rights at will, no matter who you are, isn't really fair. For transparencies sake, it's best that he keep it.
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CharlotteWebb |
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Postmaster General
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QUOTE(Lar @ Mon 30th November 2009, 12:09pm) QUOTE(Cimorene @ Mon 30th November 2009, 12:28am) Yeah, I agree. Being able to grant yourself sensitive user rights at will, no matter who you are, isn't really fair. For transparencies sake, it's best that he keep it.
Um? Any steward can do that. It's logged in a central place, but they can do it at will. Are you suggesting that all stewards should give themselves all rights on all wikis? I expect not so I must be confused by what you are suggesting. I know that, but I was under the impression that arbcom and the "community" expected "normal" stewards not to assign "advanced user-rights" to themselves or anyone else on enwiki unless the local arbcom locally appoints the local user in question to that local position, on a permanent and local basis. Do you not remember how the "community" had a fit when DerHexer empowered himself with oversight in what he felt was a bona fide emergency (to redact what he mistook for Rlevse's personal info). Yet somehow it's okay when Jimbo does it, though I'd estimate that he's even further out of touch (with the English Wikipedia) than the Angry German Kid. Sure, acting in good faith is always nice, but hardly worth what it takes to convince anyone of it. Plus half will never believe it anyway.
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Lar |
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"His blandness goes to 11!"
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QUOTE(CharlotteWebb @ Mon 30th November 2009, 11:57am) QUOTE(Lar @ Mon 30th November 2009, 12:09pm) QUOTE(Cimorene @ Mon 30th November 2009, 12:28am) Yeah, I agree. Being able to grant yourself sensitive user rights at will, no matter who you are, isn't really fair. For transparencies sake, it's best that he keep it.
Um? Any steward can do that. It's logged in a central place, but they can do it at will. Are you suggesting that all stewards should give themselves all rights on all wikis? I expect not so I must be confused by what you are suggesting. I know that, but I was under the impression that arbcom and the "community" expected "normal" stewards not to assign "advanced user-rights" to themselves or anyone else on enwiki unless the local arbcom locally appoints the local user in question to that local position, on a permanent and local basis. Do you not remember how the "community" had a fit when DerHexer empowered himself with oversight in what he felt was a bona fide emergency (to redact what he mistook for Rlevse's personal info). Yet somehow it's okay when Jimbo does it, though I'd estimate that he's even further out of touch (with the English Wikipedia) than the Angry German Kid. Sure, acting in good faith is always nice, but hardly worth what it takes to convince anyone of it. Plus half will never believe it anyway. Yes, arbcom expects that. Yes, I remember the DerHexer oversight situation. I was asking Cimorene a question. Sorry for any confusion there.
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MBisanz |
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Senior Member
Group: Regulars
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QUOTE(No one of consequence @ Mon 30th November 2009, 5:37pm) QUOTE(Lar @ Mon 30th November 2009, 4:31pm) I was asking Cimorene a question. Sorry for any confusion there.
I think Cimorene's point is that since Jimbo could re-grant himself CU at a moment's notice for any reason, or for no reason, asking him to resign CU for reason of inactivity does not really accomplish anything. I could block you for any reason or no reason at all, but policy prevents me from doing so. The global policy is rather explicit that it is only granted with Arbcom approval on wikis with Arbcoms. Why is something permissible if it violates policy?
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Lar |
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"His blandness goes to 11!"
Group: Regulars
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QUOTE(MBisanz @ Mon 30th November 2009, 1:08pm) QUOTE(No one of consequence @ Mon 30th November 2009, 5:37pm) QUOTE(Lar @ Mon 30th November 2009, 4:31pm) I was asking Cimorene a question. Sorry for any confusion there.
I think Cimorene's point is that since Jimbo could re-grant himself CU at a moment's notice for any reason, or for no reason, asking him to resign CU for reason of inactivity does not really accomplish anything. I could block you for any reason or no reason at all, but policy prevents me from doing so. The global policy is rather explicit that it is only granted with Arbcom approval on wikis with Arbcoms. Why is something permissible if it violates policy? And that's my point, which I don't think Cimorene or Charlotte got.
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So what exactly does this Gerard character do for... Kelly Martin So what exactly does this Gerard character do for ... gomi So what exactly does this Gerard character do for ... gomi Privatemusings manages to post a link to the offen... MBisanz This new evidence shoot numerous large holes in w... everyking
This new evidence shoot numerous large holes in ... TungstenCarbide
This new evidence shoot numerous large holes in ... Sarcasticidealist I understand the defamation issue, but can anybody... Kelly Martin I understand the defamation issue, but can anybody... MBisanz
I understand the defamation issue, but can anybod... Sarcasticidealist How many times have we been told that "Wikipe... Random832
I understand the defamation issue, but can anybod... Kelly Martin You know... looking past the particular personalit... Random832 If nothing else it should at least be entertaining... Tarc
If nothing else it should at least be entertainin... MBisanz
[quote name='Random832' post='207739' date='Wed 2... Sarcasticidealist Leaving it as a black box from which a decision po... trenton All this crap for a decision that is pretty much s... trenton and Gerard was the one who wanted things to be don... Random832 So we've got:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wik... Kelly Martin One wonders if anyone involved in this entire proc... Doc glasgow The problem is not lack of process, the problem is... Kelly Martin
The problem is not lack of process, the problem i... TungstenCarbide
The problem is not lack of process, the problem ... MBisanz
The problem is not lack of process, the problem ... No one of consequence
The problem is not lack of process, the problem i... MBisanz
The problem is not lack of process, the problem i... TungstenCarbide
The problem is not lack of process, the problem ... GlassBeadGame
[quote name='MBisanz' post='207760' date='Wed 2nd... MBisanz
[quote name='MBisanz' post='207760' date='Wed 2n... Jon Awbrey
Right, NY has a very wide definition of [b]public... Peter Damian Revenge: best served cold.
http://en.wikipedia.... Sarcasticidealist Revenge: best served cold.
http://en.wikipedia.... InkBlot
[quote name='Peter Damian' post='207776' date='We... Sarcasticidealist I believe Peter's saying this is his revenge, ... Apathetic Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee/Noticeboard#David_... cyofee
[wp]Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee/Noticeboard#D... Sarcasticidealist They don't mention that they've taken away... TungstenCarbide
Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee/Noticeboard#David... No one of consequence
Oh this is just too much. Gerard uses his positio... TungstenCarbide
Oh this is just too much. Gerard uses his positi... Sarcasticidealist Oh yes, after calling someone a "waste of ski... TungstenCarbide
Oh yes, after calling someone a "waste of sk... Sarcasticidealist I don't recall the arbcom announcement stating... TungstenCarbide
I don't recall the arbcom announcement statin... No one of consequence
[quote name='Sarcasticidealist' post='207798' dat... Sarcasticidealist David demanded a full retraction and apology, or o... MBisanz
[quote name='No one of consequence' post='207806'... No one of consequence
[quote name='No one of consequence' post='207806'... CharlotteWebb
I think they said he failed to live up to the lev... TungstenCarbide
[quote name='TungstenCarbide' post='207801' date=... CharlotteWebb
like pornography - you know it when you see it? ... Peter Damian
[quote name='TungstenCarbide' post='207801' date=... gomi
Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee/Noticeboard#David... Peter Damian
[quote name='Peter Damian' post='207776' date='We... Sarcasticidealist So here's a question - we know Wikileaker was ... No one of consequence
So here's a question - we know Wikileaker was... Rhindle Perhaps if Arbcom said "we are dancing on the... Peter Damian I don't follow the bit about Cade. Can someon...
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