Who is Essjay?, Probably he's Ryan Jordan Options

[Jonny Cache]

Well, you can see partially the desire for personal info not to be posted somewhere. A fair number of the vandals / hardcore trolls would just love to harass Wiki administrators in the real world for banning them (ironically the bans were helping to prevent the vandals/trolls some from posting false info to one highly contested yet now deleted (sort of) article)

Yet another case of Vandal-Admin-Troll Symbiosis:

• Brains in the VATS ?
• VATS in the Belfry ?

Jonny

This post has been edited by Jonny Cache: Tue 27th February 2007, 3:22pm

[taiwopanfob]

Well, you can see partially the desire for personal info not to be posted somewhere. [ ... blah blah blah ... ]

You misrepresent the situation. Even within the confines of the "logic" at Wikipedia, Essjay had the option of remaining silent on who he is. Instead, he lied. What else has he lied about? Why trust this person with a sysop bit at all? Why appoint the guy to ArbCom? Or is that the place where all liars are sent nowadays? If I start lying, will I get a tranche at ArbCom? "For service above and beyond the call of His Majesty ..."?

[a view from the hive]

Well, you can see partially the desire for personal info not to be posted somewhere. [ ... blah blah blah ... ]

You misrepresent the situation. Even within the confines of the "logic" at Wikipedia, Essjay had the option of remaining silent on who he is. Instead, he lied. What else has he lied about? Why trust this person with a sysop bit at all? Why appoint the guy to ArbCom? Or is that the place where all liars are sent nowadays? If I start lying, will I get a tranche at ArbCom? "For service above and beyond the call of His Majesty ..."?

I wouldn't know about arbcom. I won't touch arbcom w/ a 50 ft long stick, it's way to nuts for me.

As for lying on Wikipedia. Some people do it. I just really watch what I do on WP. I'll admit, I do focus on my image for personal PR purposes and hold some information, however, I don't post misinformaton (I don't want to have a bad google reputation / have those who are not happy w/ some of the vandalblocks stalking me....)

[Somey]

As for lying on Wikipedia. Some people do it...

Essjay isn't just "some people," though - he's one of the highest-ranking administrators on the whole website, maybe the highest! For just an ordinary editor to lie about their academic credentials is one thing, but for someone who's that highly-placed to do it, and then claim he was forced into it by supposed "death threats" from so-called "stalkers" and "trolls" - even though he posted the false claims many weeks before he was opped - and all without providing any real evidence for that claim whatsoever (AFAIK), well... let's just say that's another thing entirely.

It's just that this is emblematic of everything that's wrong with Wikipedia, on multiple levels. Sure, it's ultimately just one guy, but it's the sort of story the media should be all over like bees on honey. Maybe it's because everybody likes Stacy Schiff personally and doesn't want her treated as if she were some sort of Stephen Glass or Jayson Blair-like pariah, but facts are facts, and she should have checked 'em.

[gomi]

Well, you can see partially the desire for personal info not to be posted somewhere. A fair number of the vandals / hardcore trolls would just love to harass Wiki administrators in the real world for banning them (ironically the bans were helping to prevent the vandals/trolls some from posting false info to one highly contested yet now deleted (sort of) article)

Let me think ... there is a phrase we use for an enforcement force that is completely anonymous, accountable only to itself, and can choose to punish or forgive parts of the populace more-or-less at will ....

Oh, yes, it's called Secret Police.

Our real-life police force seems to go around wearing clearly identifying name badges and such, and in the real world we get to face our accusers. No one seems to be too worried about "trolls" out here. This "avoiding trolls and vandals" pablum is completely absurd. Essjay meant to mislead, and did so, in effect defrauding many.

[a view from the hive]

Well, you can see partially the desire for personal info not to be posted somewhere. A fair number of the vandals / hardcore trolls would just love to harass Wiki administrators in the real world for banning them (ironically the bans were helping to prevent the vandals/trolls some from posting false info to one highly contested yet now deleted (sort of) article)

Let me think ... there is a phrase we use for an enforcement force that is completely anonymous, accountable only to itself, and can choose to punish or forgive parts of the populace more-or-less at will ....

Oh, yes, it's called Secret Police.

Our real-life police force seems to go around wearing clearly identifying name badges and such, and in the real world we get to face our accusers. No one seems to be too worried about "trolls" out here. This "avoiding trolls and vandals" pablum is completely absurd. Essjay meant to mislead, and did so, in effect defrauding many.

The sole occupation of our real world police is to well, police. and they're paid to do it.

Better to most no information at all than disinformation, but as long as a WP admin does not harass anyone, there is no legal requirment whatsoever to post a real world identity.

Plenty of political reasons not too either, whistleblower legislation isn't that effective...

[Somey]

Better to most no information at all than disinformation...

Uh-oh... Don't tell me you're anti-Uncyclopedia, too...!

...but as long as a WP admin does not harass anyone, there is no legal requirment whatsoever to post a real world identity.

Legal requirements have nothing to do with it. If I want to "harass" someone anonmyously online, I'm not under any legal requirement to identify myself in any case. If I'm committing a crime, then sure, that would make me a criminal - but the burden of identification still falls on the accuser, at least initially. That's what's so incredibly sucky about it.

Besides, you haven't really defined "harassment," at least not correctly. "Harassment" is when some nutcase comes to your office and screams at you from the sidewalk. "Harassment" is when you get six phone calls a day from your ex-girlfriend, screaming the whole time... "Harassment" is when someone follows you home from work and then throws garbage on your front lawn. And to be frank, "online harassment" - the kind that actually has a chance of producing a restraining order, or even less likely, monetary damages - means mail-bombing, direct threats delivered directly, impersonation, attempts to hack accounts and passwords that you can actually prove...

Just having your name and age listed on a website where you don't want it is nothing compared to what real victims of harassment have to go through, often on a daily basis. By calling it "harassment" in this case, you're cheapening the term, trying to make it seem like what those people deal with is as easily dismissable as having your name listed on some website. To me, that's totally immoral, and every time I see people doing it, it just makes me more determined to do something about it.

[Daniel Brandt]

Nicholas Carr quotes the editor's note from The New Yorker. I haven't seen The New Yorker yet, but expect to soon. The elipses in Carr's quote need to be filled in. At least this gives you a slight preview:

http://www.roughtype.com/archives/2007/02/never_trust_an.php

Essjay was recommended to Ms. Schiff as a source by a member of Wikipedia's management team because of his respected position within the Wikipedia community. He was willing to describe his work as a Wikipedia administrator but would not identify himself other than by confirming the biographical details that appeared on his user page ... Essjay now says that his real name is Ryan Jordan, that he is twenty-four and holds no advanced degrees, and that he has never taught. He was recently hired by Wikia - a for-profit company affiliated with Wikipedia - as a "community manager"; he continues to hold his Wikipedia positions. He did not answer a message we sent to him; Jimmy Wales, the co-founder of Wikia and of Wikipedia, said of Essjay's invented persona, "I regard it as a pseudonym and I don't really have a problem with it."

I think we have to push hard to get this appended to Stacy Schiff's piece. Any writer who drinks Jimbo's Kool-Aid deserves a footnote to that effect. By the way, The New Yorker's fact checker on the piece was Ms. Jessica Rosenberg, born in 1982, Harvard class of 2004. She's the daughter of Drew Gilpin Faust, the new president of Harvard. Ms. Rosenberg is a former co-president of the Radcliffe Union of Students.

[a view from the hive]

Nicholas Carr quotes the editor's note from The New Yorker. I haven't seen The New Yorker yet, but expect to soon. The elipses in Carr's quote need to be filled in. At least this gives you a slight preview:

http://www.roughtype.com/archives/2007/02/never_trust_an.php

Essjay was recommended to Ms. Schiff as a source by a member of Wikipedia's management team because of his respected position within the Wikipedia community. He was willing to describe his work as a Wikipedia administrator but would not identify himself other than by confirming the biographical details that appeared on his user page ... Essjay now says that his real name is Ryan Jordan, that he is twenty-four and holds no advanced degrees, and that he has never taught. He was recently hired by Wikia - a for-profit company affiliated with Wikipedia - as a "community manager"; he continues to hold his Wikipedia positions. He did not answer a message we sent to him; Jimmy Wales, the co-founder of Wikia and of Wikipedia, said of Essjay's invented persona, "I regard it as a pseudonym and I don't really have a problem with it."

I think we have to push hard to get this appended to Stacy Schiff's piece. Any writer who drinks Jimbo's Kool-Aid deserves a footnote to that effect. By the way, The New Yorker's fact checker on the piece was Ms. Jessica Rosenberg, born in 1982, Harvard class of 2004. She's the daughter of Drew Gilpin Faust, the new president of Harvard. Ms. Rosenberg is a former co-president of the Radcliffe Union of Students.

I would have to give the benefit of the doubt to the NYer here. I really doubt they go and check that sort of thing on a routine basis, its a pretty straightforward fact.

Besides, didn't the article say "he says he is a" or something to that effect. That more or less brings in the benefit of the doubt factor... right there...

[Somey]

Besides, didn't the article say "he says he is a" or something to that effect. That more or less brings in the benefit of the doubt factor... right there...

Sorry, Mr. View.... The relevant text of the article was posted earlier in this thread, but that was three pages ago, so here it is again:

One regular on the site is a user known as Essjay, who holds a Ph.D. in theology and a degree in canon law and has written or contributed to sixteen thousand entries. A tenured professor of religion at a private university, Essjay made his first edit in February, 2005. Initially, he contributed to articles in his field—on the penitential rite, transubstantiation, the papal tiara. Soon he was spending fourteen hours a day on the site, though he was careful to keep his online life a secret from his colleagues and friends.

No benefit of the doubt there, I'm afraid! OTOH, you might be thinking of the bit a little later on...

Essjay says that he routinely receives death threats. “There are people who take Wikipedia way too seriously,” he told me.

So at least that part is somewhat equivocal.

[Daniel Brandt]

The New Yorker has appended the Stacy Schiff piece:

EDITORS’ NOTE:
The July 31, 2006, piece on Wikipedia, “Know It All,” by Stacy Schiff, contained an interview with a Wikipedia site administrator and contributor called Essjay, whose responsibilities included handling disagreements about the accuracy of the site’s articles and taking action against users who violate site policy. He was described in the piece as “a tenured professor of religion at a private university” with “a Ph.D. in theology and a degree in canon law.”

Essjay was recommended to Ms. Schiff as a source by a member of Wikipedia’s management team because of his respected position within the Wikipedia community. He was willing to describe his work as a Wikipedia administrator but would not identify himself other than by confirming the biographical details that appeared on his user page. At the time of publication, neither we nor Wikipedia knew Essjay’s real name. Essjay’s entire Wikipedia life was conducted with only a user name; anonymity is common for Wikipedia administrators and contributors, and he says that he feared personal retribution from those he had ruled against online. Essjay now says that his real name is Ryan Jordan, that he is twenty-four and holds no advanced degrees, and that he has never taught. He was recently hired by Wikia—a for-profit company affiliated with Wikipedia—as a “community manager”; he continues to hold his Wikipedia positions. He did not answer a message we sent to him; Jimmy Wales, the co-founder of Wikia and of Wikipedia, said of Essjay’s invented persona, “I regard it as a pseudonym and I don’t really have a problem with it.”

With that, I think The New Yorker has acted responsibly and I appreciate their attention to this matter. Stacy Schiff, the fact checker, and the magazine are all off of my radar. Now then, back to Essjay Ryan Jordan (now that The New Yorker has permanently outed him, he'll have to get used to his real name - we all hope that's his real name!)...

[Truth Man]

...With that, I think The New Yorker has acted responsibly and I appreciate their attention to this matter. Stacy Schiff, the fact checker, and the magazine are all off of my radar. Now then, back to Essjay Ryan Jordan (now that The New Yorker has permanently outed him, he'll have to get used to his real name - we all hope that's his real name!)...

Makes sense that they did that, they need to cover their ass and not look like they are licking up for seconds from Wikipedia. Though the article itself still rubs off as that.

[Somey]

Y'know, it's too bad Spy Magazine isn't still around - they used to print Letters to the Editor of the New Yorker, because the New Yorker itself wouldn't print them. Of course, the letters were actually sent to Spy, and they would also respond to the letters, which was the whole point of the gag, really.

I'd suggest we do something like that here on WR, but I doubt there's all that much readership crossover between us and the New Yorker.

[Jonny Cache]

Y'know, it's too bad Spy Magazine isn't still around -- they used to print Letters to the Editor of the New Yorker, because the New Yorker itself wouldn't print them. Of course, the letters were actually sent to Spy, and they would also respond to the letters, which was the whole point of the gag, really.

I'd suggest we do something like that here on WR, but I doubt there's all that much readership crossover between us and the New Yorker.

We should try to get better cartoons.

I can do a reasonable facsimile of Itchy & Scratchy.

Also, Immanuel Kant.

Jonny

This post has been edited by Jonny Cache: Wed 28th February 2007, 9:50pm

[Daniel Brandt]

We should try to get better cartoons.

Essjay at the computer in his Archbishop hat, glancing down and saying to his cat:
"On Wikipedia, no one knows you're a 24-year-old with no credentials."

[anon1234]

We should try to get better cartoons.

Essjay at the computer in his Archbishop hat, glancing down and saying to his cat:
"On Wikipedia, no one knows you're a 24-year-old with no credentials."

Great coverage of the issue on major blogs:

CORRECTIONS: Wikipedia expert fabricates his own bio (Valleywag)
Ode to Wikipedia Riddled with Errors (Radar Online)
Wikipedia Oops (Freakonomics)

Less popular blog mentions:
http://www.rexblog.com/2007/02/28/16618/
http://krusekronicle.typepad.com/kruse_kronicle/
http://www.regrettheerror.com/2007/03/
http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2007/02/...-yorker-a-fraud

The correction is also now available at the end of the original online article.

I am starting to get a feeling this will get more traction in the mainstream that I initially anticipated... this minor "correction" has legs.

This post has been edited by anon1234: Thu 1st March 2007, 5:37am

[Nathan]

I was going to write something (still have it in draft) but other blogs did a better job.

[Daniel Brandt]

I am starting to get a feeling this will get more traction in the mainstream that I initially anticipated... this minor "correction" has legs.

Quite possibly. It would have remained just a correction, but for Jimbo's glib comment that he has no problem with it. This was very "unencyclopedic" of him. And the fact that this involves a false and flagrant claim of academic credentials, at the precise time that Wikipedia in academia is a hot issue, certainly helps. Anyone who remembers the hell they endured in grad school, and looks at Essay acquiring two PhDs with a few keystrokes, and Jimbo signing off on it, has to start wondering...

[coriaceous]

There is a bit I came across, where Essjay indicated that a certain IP address was owned by, as I remember, Glendale Community College. Maybe someone else will find it. I've notice that deleted articles tend to delete personal edits (what they did to the 1911 project was obscene; I did nearly a thousand annotations to that very bad macine-read text).

What I noticed was the architectural nature of his personal page. Is this Hitler's Reichs Chancellory?

[anon1234]

Wouldn't it be hilarious if this story was picked up by The Colbert Report?