Printable Version of Topic
Click here to view this topic in its original format
_ Articles _
Posted by: Ottava
Just some things to show how stupid Wikipedians can be when it comes to sourcing.
"Martin left his father's girlfriend's home in the gated community of Twin Lakes to walk to a nearby 7-Eleven convenience store to buy some candy"
All reports I've seen have stated that the girlfriend did not live in the community but near it. So I looked at the source.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/17/opinion/blow-the-curious-case-of-trayvon-martin.html?_r=1.
Then look at the article: "Trayvon had left the house he and his father were visiting to walk to the local 7-Eleven. "
The op-ed, not a reliable source, does not even contain the supposed "facts" that the article states. This is a really key point, because most news stories when covering both sides point out that the girlfriend of his dad did not live there, and that the boy was entering into the community without permission (it was gated and no clear way for him to get to the girlfriend's house).
So someone wanted to skew the truth, put forth a link to an op-ed that was inflammatory but did not lack the detail, and hoped no one noticed.
That is Wikipedia - not about verifiability or truth, but about how you can get your agenda across.
Posted by: Emperor
Just some things to show how stupid Wikipedians can be when it comes to sourcing.
"Martin left his father's girlfriend's home in the gated community of Twin Lakes to walk to a nearby 7-Eleven convenience store to buy some candy"
All reports I've seen have stated that the girlfriend did not live in the community but near it. So I looked at the source.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/17/opinion/blow-the-curious-case-of-trayvon-martin.html?_r=1.
Then look at the article: "Trayvon had left the house he and his father were visiting to walk to the local 7-Eleven. "
The op-ed, not a reliable source, does not even contain the supposed "facts" that the article states. This is a really key point, because most news stories when covering both sides point out that the girlfriend of his dad did not live there, and that the boy was entering into the community without permission (it was gated and no clear way for him to get to the girlfriend's house).
So someone wanted to skew the truth, put forth a link to an op-ed that was inflammatory but did not lack the detail, and hoped no one noticed.
That is Wikipedia - not about verifiability or truth, but about how you can get your agenda across.
Encyclopedia articles about controversial current events. What could go wrong?
Posted by: Zoloft
Wikipedia would do well to suppress the creation of articles that are essentially news.
Oh, sure, once they have time to get their act together, they provide a lot of information that is glossed over or screwed up by CNN or FOX or your local news-ripper newspaper, but the mistakes and POV-pushing and clueless scrambling for position during the first few days/weeks is embarrassing and misleads many people who search for information on Wikipedia.
Perhaps they should just have a team of volunteers build an article on an event as prominent as the Trayon Martin shooting—in non article space, then place it in http://en.wikinews.org with a summary of that article in Wikipedia itself, and a prominent "Read More" link back to the main article at Wikinews.
One stone, multiple birds.
Posted by: milowent
while all manner of fights are erupting about trayvon, i'm not sure the fact of whether the girlfriend lived inside twin lakes or not is one of them, or even an important one. Tampa's paper just yesterday said she lived in the community. ("Trayvon Martin lived with his dad, who resides in the Miami area, and had visited his dad's girlfriend at the Retreat several times before.")
http://www.tampabay.com/news/humaninterest/trayvon-martins-killing-shatters-safety-within-retreat-at-twin-lakes-in/1221799
i wouldn't be shocked if the fact is wrong, though.
another fact that is completely wrong is the story that trayvon left the house during a break in the NBA All-Star game to go to the 7-11. He was dead before the game started, but that fact is repeatedly reported.
people are straining to make this a left v. right story, but its story of a dead kid who shouldn't be dead and a guy who wishes he didn't kill him. what else happened, who knows.
Posted by: Tarc
Wikipedia would do well to suppress the creation of articles that are essentially news.
The existence of such articles is the raison d'être of the Article Rescue Squad. Plane crashes, train derailments, hiccuping girls, women walking into mall pools, judges who slap their daughters, reporters who have aneurisms on-air, and so on.
Posted by: Web Fred
And no-one is reporting about what happened to the bag of candy?
HELL MAN, WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED TO THE CANDY, SUGARHOLICS WISH TO KNOW!!!!!!?
Posted by: Ottava
while all manner of fights are erupting about trayvon, i'm not sure the fact of whether the girlfriend lived inside twin lakes or not is one of them, or even an important one. Tampa's paper just yesterday said she lived in the community. ("Trayvon Martin lived with his dad, who resides in the Miami area, and had visited his dad's girlfriend at the Retreat several times before.")
I saw that. There was another just yesterday doing the same thing. It is funny how no one reported that until well after Wikipedia originated that. It would not be the first time Wikipedia originated such "facts" because of poor research. Thus, the truth gets removed by people pushing a view.
It would be sad if the claim that the girlfriend lives there. Google Maps for 1111 Retreat View Circle to 1231 Twin Trees Ln, Sanford, FL (location according to Police Report). Typing in 7-11 Sanford, FL makes it unlikely that the boy lived in "Twin Lakes" as claimed, as the 7-11s are rather too far away to walk and across many highways or busy roads. The nearest being on 46, which is a mile away from the shooting site and across a major highway. More likely, he wandered away from home and started wandering alone to see what he could get up to (and, according to witnesses, was seeing attacking Zimmerman).
Many facts of the case are downplayed - such as his height and weight being greater than previous claimed (he is about my size, and capable of fighting), claims that he is too young to be violent (if you know high schools, age doesn't mean wont be violent), claims by his teacher that his suspension was about being late when it was really about drug use, etc. Even the fact that Zimmerman is Hispanic with many black family members is completely ignored by most of the media. It doesn't play into what they want to see, and Wikipedia does the same thing.
But anyway - the news can be horribly wrong - they were pulling in "facts" from a Trayvon that lived in California, such as the height (he is really over 6 foot tall according to the police report but the news claimed he was only 5'6" because they mistook the identity). Wikipedia just compounds it by spreading half truths or complete falsehoods. Wikipedia has become merely a propaganda tool.
Posted by: Emperor
Wikipedia just compounds it by spreading half truths or complete falsehoods. Wikipedia has become merely a propaganda tool.
The scary thing is, people are so fired up right now, talking about riots and other dumb stuff, that we could very well see multiple injuries and/or deaths resulting from Wikipedia spreading misinformation.
The other thing is I've read maybe a dozen stories and none of them have mentioned that things might have gone better if either of these people had gotten off their cell phones and engaged their brains. Also, in Florida, all pedestrians are looked at as freaks. It's a car-dominated culture.
Posted by: Zoloft
Wikipedia just compounds it by spreading half truths or complete falsehoods. Wikipedia has become merely a propaganda tool.
The scary thing is, people are so fired up right now, talking about riots and other dumb stuff, that we could very well see multiple injuries and/or deaths resulting from Wikipedia spreading misinformation.
...or from a black kid being shot and the police didn't arrest his shooter or even take his gun?
Posted by: Emperor
Wikipedia just compounds it by spreading half truths or complete falsehoods. Wikipedia has become merely a propaganda tool.
The scary thing is, people are so fired up right now, talking about riots and other dumb stuff, that we could very well see multiple injuries and/or deaths resulting from Wikipedia spreading misinformation.
...or from a black kid being shot and the police didn't arrest his shooter or even take his gun?
Way to be part of the problem.
Posted by: Text
A pedophile took it and used the candy to lure little girls.
Posted by: Web Fred
A pedophile took it and used the candy to lure little girls.
The bastard!
I could have given that poor candy a good home.
Posted by: Web Fred
Wikipedia just compounds it by spreading half truths or complete falsehoods. Wikipedia has become merely a propaganda tool.
The scary thing is, people are so fired up right now, talking about riots and other dumb stuff, that we could very well see multiple injuries and/or deaths resulting from Wikipedia spreading misinformation.
...or from a black kid being shot and the police didn't arrest his shooter or even take his gun?
Way to be part of the problem.
Somehow I doubt it.
In any case Wikipedia is merely a corkboard where fuckwits post their points of view, until they get reverted to some bugger else's point of view.
Posted by: Emperor
In any case Wikipedia is merely a corkboard where fuckwits post their points of view, until they get reverted to some bugger else's point of view.
Most people are not aware of that.
Posted by: Ottava
Wikipedia just compounds it by spreading half truths or complete falsehoods. Wikipedia has become merely a propaganda tool.
The scary thing is, people are so fired up right now, talking about riots and other dumb stuff, that we could very well see multiple injuries and/or deaths resulting from Wikipedia spreading misinformation.
...or from a black kid being shot and the police didn't arrest his shooter or even take his gun?
Where did you hear that? The police put him in handcuffs and then took the gun and logged it in as evidence. They did not give the gun back. He was later released when there were 3 witnesses testifying he was on the ground being attacked and there was a broken nose and damage to the back of his head from being smashed into a sidewalk. That was strong evidence of needing self-defense.
Posted by: Text
Eventually they will become aware.
Eventually.
Posted by: A Horse With No Name
And no-one is reporting about what happened to the bag of candy?
HELL MAN, WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED TO THE CANDY, SUGARHOLICS WISH TO KNOW!!!!!!?
Well, if the picture of the tubby shooter is any indication, I suspect that he ate the evidence.
But not hospitalization, which is usually what occurs after one's nose is broken and skull is smashed on a sidewalk.
The U.S. would be better off if someone ran a giant chainsaw along the Florida border and allowed it to float off into the Atlantic.
Posted by: Web Fred
The U.S. would be better off if someone ran a giant chainsaw along the Florida border and allowed it to float off into the Atlantic.
Then where would New Yorkers go to kill people?
Posted by: Detective
The U.S. would be better off if someone ran a giant chainsaw along the Florida border and allowed it to float off into the Atlantic.
What would that do to U.S. presidential elections? It would take half the fun out of them.
Posted by: Malleus
The U.S. would be better off if someone ran a giant chainsaw along the Florida border and allowed it to float off into the Atlantic.
What would that do to U.S. presidential elections? It would take half the fun out of them.
... and about an eighth of the corruption.
Posted by: milowent
It would be sad if the claim that the girlfriend lives there. Google Maps for 1111 Retreat View Circle to 1231 Twin Trees Ln, Sanford, FL (location according to Police Report). Typing in 7-11 Sanford, FL makes it unlikely that the boy lived in "Twin Lakes" as claimed as the 7-11s are rather too far away to walk and across many highways or busy roads. The nearest being on 46, which is a mile away from the shooting site and across a major highway.
there's one on rinehart next to boston's fish house about .7 miles away, i believe that's the one they say he went to. no impassible roads to cross.
where did the girlfriend live (don't reveal nonpublic info, only if its public)? is it far from Twin Lakes?
Posted by: milowent
not to belabor the point, but here's another article from today saying she lived in the gated community? ("What's clear is that Martin was staying at his father's girlfriend's house in a gated community in Sanford ...")
interestingly the article reports that the sanford poilce requested an arrest warrant for zimmerman after their investigation ended. i guess this "Zimmerman was totally innocent" narrative, which always seemed premature, is not what the cops on the ground thought.
http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/sanford-police-had-requested-arrest-warrant-for-george-zimmerman-in/1222259
Posted by: Ottava
not to belabor the point, but here's another article from today saying she lived in the gated community? ("What's clear is that Martin was staying at his father's girlfriend's house in a gated community in Sanford ...")
interestingly the article reports that the sanford poilce requested an arrest warrant for zimmerman after their investigation ended. i guess this "Zimmerman was totally innocent" narrative, which always seemed premature, is not what the cops on the ground thought.
http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/sanford-police-had-requested-arrest-warrant-for-george-zimmerman-in/1222259
Actually, the request is for the best - that removes the claims that the police were trying to cover up anything for racial reasons.
Originally, the case was depicted as a little black boy being gunned down for no reason by a white Republican and the police covered it up. Now it is revealed that a big almost-18 year old was shot after beating up a Hispanic Democrat and the police did put out a warrant.