Abigor's Meltdown Options

[Ottava]

Everyone knows that Abigor has been majorly wheel warring over images, closing "undeletion" requests in less than 2 hours in order to stifle any discussion, and even blocked me for pointing out that while he claimed he was undeleting only "breast feeding" or "art" images, that he was really undeleting hard core pornography.

However, he has gone even further in intimidation:

1. Edit warring on a user talk page when the user has the right to remove content, especially when they leave:[http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Ottava_Rima&action=history Mine] and Guido's. Note, vvv and Abigor were overturned as acting completely inappropriately and not within policy, but Abigor felt like removing my comments to make it seem one sided. This is classic abuse and bullying.

2. Trying to desysop Tiptoety for using his power appropriately: as you can see here.

3. Then, when it seemed like he would finally be removed in order to stop his consistent bullying and abuse of every single policy we have and his horrible amount of intimidation, he backs down.

4. Then seeks more revenge against Jimbo to taunt him: 1 and 2.

So, he abused his ops very blatantly on IRC, cussed out people calling them a "fucking idiot", and has been rampaging over multiple pages.

Everyone knows he has been abusive on multiple accounts and deceptive, so why is he not yet banned? If Jimbo wants to prove he really has what is best in mind for the project, it is rather simple what the answer here is: ban Abigor, remove any trace of him, and if anyone dared to abuse their power like that again to make sure they are completely removed.

Abigor has shown that anarchists are able to take over and destroy everything in their path. He is doing a more to harm Wikipedia than anything Greg Kohs has ever managed, and I am sure Kohs is sitting there watching with a huge smile on his face.



By the way, what would the media think if they find out that a single admin has defied the WMF authority, blocked, threatened, cussed out, and gone to great lengths to intimidate anyone who dares to remove pornography that is clearly out of scope and has no reason to be on Commons?

For our reputation alone that guy needs to be shown the door and erased from history.

This post has been edited by Ottava:

[Ottava]

By the way, if the WMF or Foundation doesn't restore 100% authority back to Jimbo to block and desysop such people like Abigor, then what effective happened is you replaced one "tyrant" whose reputation is subject to criticism by the press to a system of dozens of petty tyrants who do not fear anything and can terrorize and abuse as many people as they want.

[Guido den Broeder]

His real name is Huib Laurens, he is around 25 years of age IIRC, and reasonably intelligent compared to other wikigoons.

He has previously, in part concurrently, used other handles. Among them, Sterkebak and SterkeBak, with an extensive history of all kinds of problematic behaviour, He also uses a large array of anonymous IP addresses as well which he can easily do as employee of a provider.

Huib has been banned from Wikisage for vandalizing our main page and hacking into our database. He then threatened me with a lawsuit, which of course never happened. Instead, there is a police file on him. Since that time he has been stalking me. He often uses IRC to canvass lesser minds or offend his targets.

At one time he was caught red-handed while he was attacking the nl-wikisage chat channel with bots from a public library, something that he kept up 24/7 for months on end without much success. I identified the IP address and phoned the library, where he was forcibly removed.

The guy went on tilt when he lost his girlfriend several years ago.

To summarize, this is a very sad case of a young man whose emotions tend to get in the way of his abusive behaviour, making him trip over his own feet on a regular basis.

[Ottava]

At one time he was caught red-handed while he was attacking the nl-wikisage chat channel with bots from a public library, something that he kept up 24/7 for months on end without much success. I identified the IP address and phoned the library, where he was forcibly removed.

The guy went on tilt when he lost his girlfriend several years ago.

To summarize, this is a very sad case of a young man whose emotions tend to get in the way of his abusive behaviour, making him trip over his own feet on a regular basis.

I can tell you that he used another IRC name to attack me in PM - it went back to the same server he was on and was by a guy with a clearly spur of the moment name (all caps and the such) that wasn't logged in on chat.

This was while he was calling me a "fucking idiot" and raging through multiple rooms and attacking anyone who disagreed with his abuse.

[Moulton]

Was he wearing a furry animal costume?

[carbuncle]

For our reputation alone that guy needs to be shown the door and erased from history.

Perhaps Adam Cuerden can help you edit him out of all the photographs where he appears with Jimbo.

[Ottava]

For our reputation alone that guy needs to be shown the door and erased from history.

Perhaps Adam Cuerden can help you edit him out of all the photographs where he appears with Jimbo.

Adam's behavior was disgraceful and anything short of desysopping and a 6 month ban would be unacceptable.

[SB_Johnny]

For our reputation alone that guy needs to be shown the door and erased from history.

Perhaps Adam Cuerden can help you edit him out of all the photographs where he appears with Jimbo.

Adam's behavior was disgraceful and anything short of desysopping and a 6 month ban would be unacceptable.

This thread had potential, but should probably be annexed at this point (except maybe Guido's comment).

[Ottava]

For our reputation alone that guy needs to be shown the door and erased from history.

Perhaps Adam Cuerden can help you edit him out of all the photographs where he appears with Jimbo.

Adam's behavior was disgraceful and anything short of desysopping and a 6 month ban would be unacceptable.

This thread had potential, but should probably be annexed at this point (except maybe Guido's comment).

Annexing would make it invisible to outsiders. Effectively, you would be removing any criticism and exposure of clear abuse, things that the media, for instance, would be interested to read about.

[Kelly Martin]

Annexing would make it invisible to outsiders. Effectively, you would be removing any criticism and exposure of clear abuse, things that the media, for instance, would be interested to read about.

Yup, annex or delete; the purpose of Wikipedia Review is absolutely not to facilitate Ottava's personal need for vengeance.

[Somey]

Yup, annex or delete; the purpose of Wikipedia Review is absolutely not to facilitate Ottava's personal need for vengeance.

Done! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

Is the Annex not visible to the public? It should be - I'll go check and see what the deal is.

(Two minutes later)

It's visible to the public, but not to Google and other popular search engines. Interesting problem, actually... I suppose we must have decided that deliberately, but I don't remember the specific discussion. (There's a Mods-only thread on it but not much in it about Google, and a few other posts scattered in various places, but nothing conclusive.) Maybe I was distracted with "real life" that week (like I am this week)...?

IMO we should probably discuss it in a bit more detail somewhere. I'd be inclined to make it visible to Google, but I could see why some folks would disagree.

[Ottava]

Yup, annex or delete; the purpose of Wikipedia Review is absolutely not to facilitate Ottava's personal need for vengeance.

Done! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

Is the Annex not visible to the public? It should be - I'll go check and see what the deal is.

(Two minutes later)

It's visible to the public, but not to Google and other popular search engines. Interesting problem, actually... I suppose we must have decided that deliberately, but I don't remember the specific discussion. (There's a Mods-only thread on it but not much in it about Google, and a few other posts scattered in various places, but nothing conclusive.) Maybe I was distracted with "real life" that week (like I am this week)...?

IMO we should probably discuss it in a bit more detail somewhere. I'd be inclined to make it visible to Google, but I could see why some folks would disagree.

People without accounts linked to annex threads can't see them, so, that is why I said it wasn't public.

[John Limey]

the purpose of Wikipedia Review is absolutely not to facilitate Ottava's personal need for vengeance.

You certainly could've fooled me.

[Ottava]

Yup, annex or delete; the purpose of Wikipedia Review is absolutely not to facilitate Ottava's personal need for vengeance.

Personal need? He didn't do it to just me. It was already discussed in four different threads. A centralized location is more useful to be on topic. You are just happy that Wiki is in chaos because you just want it to fail out of your own personal need for vengeance.

[Somey]

People without accounts linked to annex threads can't see them...

Huh?

I just logged out, and there it all was in its full glory and splendor. Maybe you're using the word "linked" when you meant to use a different phrase, such as "with internet ISP's who are told vague rumors about things relating"...? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unsure.gif)

Bearing in mind, of course, that I personally believe Abigor (T-C-L-K-R-D) to be a menace to all things proper and decent, and that he should therefore be severely chastised.

[Moulton]

I personally believe Abigor (T-C-L-K-R-D) to be a menace to all things proper and decent, and that he should therefore be severely chastised.

Moreover, he should be castigated and ostracized.

[Ottava]

People without accounts linked to annex threads can't see them...

Huh?

I just logged out, and there it all was in its full glory and splendor. Maybe you're using the word "linked" when you meant to use a different phrase, such as "with internet ISP's who are told vague rumors about things relating"...? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unsure.gif)

Bearing in mind, of course, that I personally believe Abigor (T-C-L-K-R-D) to be a menace to all things proper and decent, and that he should therefore be severely chastised.

Well, I had someone check today and it was visible for them. I'm not really sure what the deal was - the last time I tried was the Giano/Bishonen thread and people weren't able to see that on the first day after it was in the Annex. I'm not going to begin to ponder what was going on and I'll just be happy that people can see it now.

[Somey]

I'm not really sure what the deal was - the last time I tried was the Giano/Bishonen thread and people weren't able to see that on the first day after it was in the Annex. I'm not going to begin to ponder what was going on and I'll just be happy that people can see it now.

Oh wait, maybe that was the "Annex Tar Pit"...? That one's not visible to the public, but there weren't many threads in it last time I checked.

Getting back to this Abigor person, do you have some good examples of Awfully Abusive Admin Actions (4A) that don't involve you in any way whatsoever? I figure we can ignore the image-tagging warnings on Jimbo's talk page, but you mentioned Tiptoety (T-C-L-K-R-D) , who apparently was trying to remove ("oversight") some porno images so that even admins couldn't see them, causing Abigor to object in rather officious terms. Is Abigor one of those, you know, porn guys? Or does he just not like Tiptoety for some reason?

[thekohser]

Getting back to this Abigor person, do you have some good examples of Awfully Abusive Admin Actions (4A) that don't involve you in any way whatsoever?

He either blocked me or denied an unblock request of mine, on one of the various Wikimedia projects. It's happened to me so often over the past 4 days, I can't remember exactly. I've got Abigor/Huib in the "Bad Guys" column.

Then again, the way he seems to have Ottava in a bunch, Huib may be edging over into my "Hasten The Day support" category.

[Ottava]

I'm not really sure what the deal was - the last time I tried was the Giano/Bishonen thread and people weren't able to see that on the first day after it was in the Annex. I'm not going to begin to ponder what was going on and I'll just be happy that people can see it now.

Oh wait, maybe that was the "Annex Tar Pit"...? That one's not visible to the public, but there weren't many threads in it last time I checked.

Getting back to this Abigor person, do you have some good examples of Awfully Abusive Admin Actions (4A) that don't involve you in any way whatsoever? I figure we can ignore the image-tagging warnings on Jimbo's talk page, but you mentioned Tiptoety (T-C-L-K-R-D) , who apparently was trying to remove ("oversight") some porno images so that even admins couldn't see them, causing Abigor to object in rather officious terms. Is Abigor one of those, you know, porn guys? Or does he just not like Tiptoety for some reason?

He wheel warred against Jimbo while claiming he was only undeleting breast feeding or art images. The images were clearly women masturbating. Lying about your undeletions and closing undeletion pages after less than two hours and with one vote is highly inappropriate.

There was also the abusive treatment of Guido and edit warring on his talk page. Just check Abigor's contribs, there is quite a lot in 24 hours. He took his anger out on everyone he could find.

[Moulton]

He took his anger out on everyone he could find.

I guess he couldn't find me, eh?

[SB_Johnny]

He wheel warred against Jimbo <...blah, blah, blah,...>

Ya know, if you stopped implying that not doing Jimbo's will is inherently a bad thing, people might actually read your posts. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)

[Ottava]

He wheel warred against Jimbo <...blah, blah, blah,...>

Ya know, if you stopped implying that not doing Jimbo's will is inherently a bad thing, people might actually read your posts. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)

Clearing out a bunch of porn is something that Jimbo did right. He knew that Wikipedia was being mocked and looked down on over it and he took appropriate action. The trolls who put it up in the first place need to be shown the door.

[SB_Johnny]

He wheel warred against Jimbo <...blah, blah, blah,...>

Ya know, if you stopped implying that not doing Jimbo's will is inherently a bad thing, people might actually read your posts. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)

Clearing out a bunch of porn is something that Jimbo did right. He knew that Wikipedia was being mocked and looked down on over it and he took appropriate action. The trolls who put it up in the first place need to be shown the door.

And there's that in and out the ears trick again! Amazing! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/applause.gif)

[Ottava]

He wheel warred against Jimbo <...blah, blah, blah,...>

Ya know, if you stopped implying that not doing Jimbo's will is inherently a bad thing, people might actually read your posts. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)

Clearing out a bunch of porn is something that Jimbo did right. He knew that Wikipedia was being mocked and looked down on over it and he took appropriate action. The trolls who put it up in the first place need to be shown the door.

And there's that in and out the ears trick again! Amazing! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/applause.gif)

I judge the individual action, not the person who may have a history of fucking up. A broken clock is right twice a day, so, if you continue to say it is wrong then you will be wrong every once in a while.

[Kelly Martin]

A broken clock is right twice a day, so, if you continue to say it is wrong then you will be wrong every once in a while.

You really aren't going to convince anyone that nothing in my posts is worth reading when you run about plagiarizing them (albeit badly).

[Rick]

Regarding Tiptoety aka Tyler Van Wormer: Oh please. Tyler needs to have his priveleges taken away. He thinks he's so mighty, what with his power on a high number of Wikimedia projects, as well as being a police cadet.

[SB_Johnny]

He wheel warred against Jimbo <...blah, blah, blah,...>

Ya know, if you stopped implying that not doing Jimbo's will is inherently a bad thing, people might actually read your posts. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)

Clearing out a bunch of porn is something that Jimbo did right. He knew that Wikipedia was being mocked and looked down on over it and he took appropriate action. The trolls who put it up in the first place need to be shown the door.

And there's that in and out the ears trick again! Amazing! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/applause.gif)

I judge the individual action, not the person who may have a history of fucking up. A broken clock is right twice a day, so, if you continue to say it is wrong then you will be wrong every once in a while.

I didn't actually say you were "wrong", I was just giving you a friendly heads up on why people around here add you to their ignore list (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wink.gif).

Despite the obvious similarities (e.g., spending years covering up for pedophiles and/or making life easier for pedophiles in order to "keep a good public face"), Jimbo is not the pope. You really don't have any duty to kiss his ring and preach his message on command, you know, much less any likelihood of a reward in the after-wiki-life. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/rolleyes.gif)

[GlassBeadGame]

He wheel warred against Jimbo <...blah, blah, blah,...>

Ya know, if you stopped implying that not doing Jimbo's will is inherently a bad thing, people might actually read your posts. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)

Clearing out a bunch of porn is something that Jimbo did right. He knew that Wikipedia was being mocked and looked down on over it and he took appropriate action. The trolls who put it up in the first place need to be shown the door.

And there's that in and out the ears trick again! Amazing! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/applause.gif)

I judge the individual action, not the person who may have a history of fucking up. A broken clock is right twice a day, so, if you continue to say it is wrong then you will be wrong every once in a while.

I didn't actually say you were "wrong", I was just giving you a friendly heads up on why people around here add you to their ignore list (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wink.gif).

Despite the obvious similarities (e.g., spending years covering up for pedophiles and/or making life easier for pedophiles in order to "keep a good public face"), Jimbo is not the pope. You really don't have any duty to kiss his ring and preach his message on command, you know, much less any likelihood of a reward in the after-wiki-life. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/rolleyes.gif)

While there are a lot of legitimate reasons to blame for Ottava being such an idiot his religion is not one of them.

[SB_Johnny]

While there are a lot of legitimate reasons to blame for Ottava being such an idiot his religion is not one of them.

The catholicism, no. The Jimboism, yes (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif).

[Milton Roe]

While there are a lot of legitimate reasons to blame for Ottava being such an idiot his religion is not one of them.

(IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/dry.gif) No? Well, it doesn't seem to be helping any. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/hrmph.gif)

But I suppose you can argue it's a very broad tent, and has a section for every sort. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wink.gif)

[Ottava]

I didn't actually say you were "wrong", I was just giving you a friendly heads up on why people around here add you to their ignore list (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wink.gif).

Despite the obvious similarities (e.g., spending years covering up for pedophiles and/or making life easier for pedophiles in order to "keep a good public face"), Jimbo is not the pope. You really don't have any duty to kiss his ring and preach his message on command, you know, much less any likelihood of a reward in the after-wiki-life. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/rolleyes.gif)

Well, I wish more of them would because some of their responses are boring. ;/

By the way, that is a cheap shot. You are putting the wrongs of a few individuals upon others. Your actions on Wikiversity and the problems they caused are not the fault of Wikiversity or any other member.

[GlassBeadGame]

While there are a lot of legitimate reasons to blame for Ottava being such an idiot his religion is not one of them.

The catholicism, no. The Jimboism, yes (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif).

Well Ok.

It seems to me that WMF has much to learn form the American and Irish Catholic Churches. The lay leadership in these Churches have overcome historic inertia and loudly insisted upon responsibility. Institutions like the Catholic Church and Boy Scouts, who have learned hard, painful and expensive lessons about child protection should be looked to as resources by WMF. At this point they have implemented rigorous safeguards and practices. But it is just the opposite on WP were the "laity", or the community, are the bulwark of irresponsibility and no child protective measures have been implemented at all. The saddest thing is that we know from these entities and their child victims is that it will take decades for the harm to come to light.

[CharlotteWebb]

I don't really think a group of over 1 billion people are a "minority" or that people who have the ability to wage war all over the Middle East and fly three planes into US buildings are powerless.

By the way, that is a cheap shot. You are putting the wrongs of a few individuals upon others.

[Ottava]

I don't really think a group of over 1 billion people are a "minority" or that people who have the ability to wage war all over the Middle East and fly three planes into US buildings are powerless.

By the way, that is a cheap shot. You are putting the wrongs of a few individuals upon others.

I never said that the three minorities reflected the billion people. I stated that they were not weak and powerless on either account. Now, if you want to say that my stating Muslims are not an oppressed minority is comparable to someone saying a few pedophilic priests mean that all 1.6 billion Catholics are evil, then that is absurd.

[Cock-up-over-conspiracy]

And there's that in and out the ears trick again! Amazing! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/applause.gif)

Ottava, I do not know you, we have never crossed swords and I have never said a bad word about you, we operate in different spheres ...

But I do wish you would

a) stay 'on topic', and
b) stop making quoting multiple quotes 4 or 5 deep every time you reply ... why should anyone have to scroll 8" to read something off topic or get to the next post.

Please look at the title at the top of the page and learn how to edit off your replies. Thank you.

Abigor is 'everywikipedian'. The solution is locking them and their effluence all up in a private world where they do not poison ours.

[Ottava]

a) stay 'on topic', and
b) stop making quoting multiple quotes 4 or 5 deep every time you reply ... why should anyone have to scroll 8" to read something off topic or get to the next post.

o.O

The most amount of quotes in quotes I have done is this and that was four. That was one time. Most are a quote and I cut out most (and I have gotten flack for trimming).

[CharlotteWebb]

I never said that the three minorities reflected the billion people. I stated that they were not weak and powerless on either account.

So generalizing from a small sample is cool as long as you put a minty-fresh positive spin on it?

I'll have to try that. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/dry.gif)

[Ottava]

I never said that the three minorities reflected the billion people. I stated that they were not weak and powerless on either account.

So generalizing from a small sample is cool as long as you put a minty-fresh positive spin on it?

I'll have to try that. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/dry.gif)

Well, which is racist: Asians are smart or black people are lazy? Obviously, both are generalizations and stereotypes. However, one is positive and the other is not. It is just human nature to side with it being okay to generalize to the positive but not to the negative.

[CharlotteWebb]

Well, which is racist: Asians are smart or black people are lazy? Obviously, both are generalizations and stereotypes. However, one is positive and the other is not. It is just human nature to side with it being okay to generalize to the positive but not to the negative.

To achieve a comparable level of culture-baiting you might explain how Seung-Hui Cho, for example, was a true fucking genius.

[Ottava]

Well, which is racist: Asians are smart or black people are lazy? Obviously, both are generalizations and stereotypes. However, one is positive and the other is not. It is just human nature to side with it being okay to generalize to the positive but not to the negative.

To achieve a comparable level of culture-baiting you might explain how Seung-Hui Cho, for example, was a true fucking genius.

Sigh, it isn't culture baiting. People support positive stereotypes. They do not support negative ones. Its called a reputation, and people seek out to have a strong one. You should know that and I don't know why you are being so blah.

[Somey]

Sigh, it isn't culture baiting. People support positive stereotypes. They do not support negative ones. Its called a reputation, and people seek out to have a strong one.

Well... if you ask me, we should all seek to rid ourselves of racial and religious stereotypes whenever possible, even if they tend to be positive (bearing in mind that one man's "positive" is another man's excuse for a campaign of murder or even genocide). But if you're talking about positive national or regional stereotypes not related to race (or related as indirectly as possible), or perhaps stereotypes regarding what school(s) a person went to or what kind of music they listen to and so forth, I suppose that's probably not so bad, really. Though it still makes me a little queasy.

Anyway, getting back to User:Abigor, I've now looked through his contribs and while he does seem rather officious, this latest behavior seems to be a new thing for him. Maybe he's just been drinking too much beer in the last several days? Is there some sort of national holiday thingy going on in The Netherlands?

[Milton Roe]

Well... if you ask me, we should all seek to rid ourselves of racial and religious stereotypes whenever possible, even if they tend to be positive (bearing in mind that one man's "positive" is another man's excuse for a campaign of murder or even genocide).

Here's where I disagree. Stereotyping is just logical induction applied to sociology. Not only is neither intrinsically bad or good (a lot depends on accuracy)-- but since it's also unavoidable if you think and observe people very much, one should learn to make friends with it.

Illustration: Almost any good standup comic does sterotyping from start to finish. And only gets laughs if what he or she says is TRUE.

[Subtle Bee]

Well... if you ask me, we should all seek to rid ourselves of racial and religious stereotypes whenever possible, even if they tend to be positive (bearing in mind that one man's "positive" is another man's excuse for a campaign of murder or even genocide).

Here's where I disagree. Stereotyping is just logical induction applied to sociology. Not only is neither intrinsically bad or good (a lot depends on accuracy)-- but since it's also unavoidable if you think and observe people very much, one should learn to make friends with it.

Illustration: Almost any good standup comic does sterotyping from start to finish. And only gets laughs if what he or she says is TRUE.

Here's where I disagree - comic audiences are hardly arbiters of truth. They laugh if they share the stereotype.

If being funny was the same as being right, I'd... actually, for me it wouldn't change a thing. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wtf.gif)

[Moulton]

Your actions on Wikiversity and the problems they caused are not the fault of Wikiversity or any other member.

In the never-ending conflict between ethics and corruption, it occurs to me the problems are mainly caused by the presence of corruption. Having said that, I must admit that the introduction of ethical principals and practices evidently tends to aggravate the problem, driving the corrupt factions to escalate the intensity of their corrupt practices until they have driven out those meddlesome ethicists.

[radek]

Well... if you ask me, we should all seek to rid ourselves of racial and religious stereotypes whenever possible, even if they tend to be positive (bearing in mind that one man's "positive" is another man's excuse for a campaign of murder or even genocide).

Here's where I disagree. Stereotyping is just logical induction applied to sociology. Not only is neither intrinsically bad or good (a lot depends on accuracy)-- but since it's also unavoidable if you think and observe people very much, one should learn to make friends with it.

Illustration: Almost any good standup comic does sterotyping from start to finish. And only gets laughs if what he or she says is TRUE.

Here's where I disagree - comic audiences are hardly arbiters of truth. They laugh if they share the stereotype.

If being funny was the same as being right, I'd... actually, for me it wouldn't change a thing. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wtf.gif)

Stereotypes are a kind of a weighted mix of crude mental statistical inference based on very few data points of personal experience and hearsay and basic superstition based on the classic confusion between correlation and causation. In themselves they are a form of "weak prejudice", particularly if they are of the "good stereotype" kind. Add the common, though not universal, innate need for people to feel superior to others and willing to take almost any reason to do so and you got "strong prejudice".

I think that's agreeing with Moulton rather than Somey.

[Ottava]

Anyway, getting back to User:Abigor, I've now looked through his contribs and while he does seem rather officious, this latest behavior seems to be a new thing for him. Maybe he's just been drinking too much beer in the last several days? Is there some sort of national holiday thingy going on in The Netherlands?

I've sat in the IRC rooms he frequent for a while. There is very little here that he does. Most of the real work on Meta is handled by Stewards or by people like myself doing all the really tedious pushing things around (archiving nonsense). On Commons, it was all done by those like Tiptoety, NuclearWarfare, Juliancolton, you know, the people that get poked at quite a bit. Abigor is active over with the Dutch and German side of things, so, that would probably be something to dig into.

[NuclearWarfare]

Anyway, getting back to User:Abigor, I've now looked through his contribs and while he does seem rather officious, this latest behavior seems to be a new thing for him. Maybe he's just been drinking too much beer in the last several days? Is there some sort of national holiday thingy going on in The Netherlands?

I've sat in the IRC rooms he frequent for a while. There is very little here that he does. Most of the real work on Meta is handled by Stewards or by people like myself doing all the really tedious pushing things around (archiving nonsense). On Commons, it was all done by those like Tiptoety, NuclearWarfare, Juliancolton, you know, the people that get poked at quite a bit. Abigor is active over with the Dutch and German side of things, so, that would probably be something to dig into.

Wait, are you stating that I actually do something?

[Ottava]

Wait, are you stating that I actually do something?

Well, enough to be mocked here. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

[Ottava]

When Abigor goes after petty revenge and fails , he protects the page himself.

This guy really loves to make it clear he has no respect for how ops are to be used.

[Milton Roe]

Stereotypes are a kind of a weighted mix of crude mental statistical inference based on very few data points of personal experience and hearsay and basic superstition based on the classic confusion between correlation and causation. In themselves they are a form of "weak prejudice", particularly if they are of the "good stereotype" kind. Add the common, though not universal, innate need for people to feel superior to others and willing to take almost any reason to do so and you got "strong prejudice".

Both "stereotype" and "prejudice" are innately biased and emotionally tainted (perhaps I should write "prejudicial") words. Apply them to car models or dog breeds or sports teams, and you see that they have limited utility. If you didn't believe that something statistical and predictive could be said about dog breeds or car models or sports teams, you'd be in poor shape in the betting pool, or as an informed consumer. But there's no argument you can make about social prejudices that I can't make as well about any inductive inference about any group whatsoever. It's not the process that is the problem, it's the errors that result when it's done incorrectly.

What makes you assume that a "stereotype" is always based on "very few data points of personal experience and hearsay and basic superstition based on the classic confusion between correlation and causation?" or are you simply defining "stereotype" that way, in which case you're simply making an information-free syllogism, ala no true Scotsman?

[Ottava]

Both "stereotype" and "prejudice" are innately biased and emotionally tainted (perhaps I should write "prejudicial") words.

I tend to agree with Hume that since our knowledge is based on perception, it is inherently biased and emotionally tainted.

(Not Hume:) the only way to fix that is to recognize the biases and adjust, but they will always be there in some way. Some are passive enough or just not harmful enough to be worth putting in large scale efforts to remove.

[ulsterman]

When Abigor goes after petty revenge and fails , he protects the page himself.

This guy really loves to make it clear he has no respect for how ops are to be used.

And then Raymond abused his admin powers by editing a protected page. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ohmy.gif) Is there no policy on Commons prohibiting that sort of thing?

[Ottava]

When Abigor goes after petty revenge and fails , he protects the page himself.

This guy really loves to make it clear he has no respect for how ops are to be used.

And then Raymond abused his admin powers by editing a protected page. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ohmy.gif) Is there no policy on Commons prohibiting that sort of thing?

Obviously, whatever policies that did exist on commons are now moot.

[Killiondude]

Obviously, whatever policies that did exist on commons are now moot.

Votes for adminship and other special rights are normally protected after the voting is over. Admins editing it after the vote/protection isn't something new, but it's not done too much. Commons (used to be?) kind of lax about procedures like that.

I kind of agree with Kelly in that any topic Ottava seems to be in on WR turns quickly to himself. :-/ I was hoping to find more content about Abigor in this thread.

This post has been edited by Killiondude:

[pietkuip]

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:...de-adminship%29

Self-destructed.

[Abd]

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:...de-adminship%29

Self-destructed.

Wow. Extreme. Fast closed because Abigor had resigned. What came down there was so extreme that I'd suspect this wasn't Abigor at all. But it probably was.

I'd seen Stuff from him at meta. It's just surprising that he'd be so completely blatant, i.e., editing by IP, then defending those edits without acknowledging that they were him. That was grounds for blocking, in fact, not mere desysop. Abigor voluntarily requested removal at 21:00, 29 June 2011.

http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?t...e=User%3AAbigor

Indef blocked. He'd unblocked himself when short-blocked for edit warring. This was truly a flame-out.

This post has been edited by Abd:

[pietkuip]

This is extreme: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Abigor#unblock

[Guido den Broeder]

Especially since the same courtesy is never given to users with far lesser offenses, and Abigor himself even frequently removed a blocked user's access to their own talk page.

[Abd]

Especially since the same courtesy is never given to users with far lesser offenses, and Abigor himself even frequently removed a blocked user's access to their own talk page.

I originally had some sympathy for Guido, because of his advocacy for Greg, but I came to see that he was someone pursuing vendettas, and he was that way with Abigor, kicking him when he was down. Sure, Abigor was getting a kind of payback, I'd seen him as an administrative bully. He'd certainly abused his tools with Guido!

However, Abigor is now caught in a Catch-22, a true Kafkaesque moment.

On the one hand, it's claimed that checkuser identification of him as a the vandal, who created an account with a highly offensive username, attacking someone considered adverse to Abigor, was definitive, unmistakable, certain, with evidence in unusual detail being asserted (and which does, if true, represent the strongest level of identification), but, on the other, when Abigor requested the IP information, he was told that privacy policy prohibited that.

Which it doesn't. Permission of the user is a condition allowing release of the information, privacy and checkuser policy is explicit on that.

When I pointed this out, it was then claimed, by Ajraddatz, who had stated that the chance of false identification was "astronomically small" -- I refrained from pointing out the weird language -- that if he wasn't the vandal, revealing the vandal's IP and username to him would be violating the privacy of the vandal.

Catch-22. The user is not allowed to see the evidence against him, because he might not be guilty.

If it weren't for the seriously weird shit coming down about Poetlister, where it's clear that Wikiversity is under attack, distracting me, I think I'd have checked myself into a hospital. This stuff drives me crazy.

Abigor is probably the vandal, but ... even if he is, that he is treated with fairness and respect by *somebody* may help him get through this. And, of course, if he was framed, as he is effectively claiming, the only one who could uncover this crime would be him, if given the evidence, then investigating. Nobody else is going to do it!

It's not likely to help him, directly, but it might help someone, someday. The next victim, perhaps. "Ah! This also happened with Abigor two years ago, after conflict with the same user!"