Danny Wool: WP a "mainstream news media"?, So sez Sue Gardner... Options

[the fieryangel]

Pretty confusing.

I thought that it was an encyclopedia. Now it's a "news media"?

[Kato]

Thanks Danny. When I saw that "newsmedia" quote, I was going to write a post about it but couldn't drum up the enthusiasm.

In a nutshell: I thought the idea was to reflect the most scholarly thinking on a topic. Not what the "mainstream media" think. Relying on the New York Times to cover something like Israeli political history (which is what Sue Gardner implies) is a futile task.

[Danny]

Thanks. I really have no idea what Sue is doing. Then again, I am pretty convinced that she doesn't either. She is, however, putting in a rather bloated staff. Six more hires (http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Job_openings) at $90,000 is kind of ridiculous, if you ask me. Charity my ass.

Thanks Danny. When I saw that "newsmedia" quote, I was going to write a post about it but couldn't drum up the enthusiasm.

In a nutshell: I thought the idea was to reflect the most scholarly thinking on a topic. Not what the "mainstream media" think. Relying on the New York Times to cover something like Israeli political history (which is what Sue Gardner implies) is a futile task.

[GlassBeadGame]

Thanks. I really have no idea what Sue is doing. Then again, I am pretty convinced that she doesn't either. She is, however, putting in a rather bloated staff. Six more hires (http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Job_openings) at $90,000 is kind of ridiculous, if you ask me. Charity my ass.

I followed the link and then went to the postings. Only two had any information about salary. The range was 70-95k. This seemed somewhat high given the smallish nature of WMF but perhaps not given the large extent of unpaid actors (volunteers is not always the right word). I'm pretty sure the Intern is not comming in at 90k. If anything WMF seems too small for the desired task, especially if the worst problems caused by "the community" are ever to held in check.

Gardner is cluessless in many respects, as is clearly evidenced by her promotion of Moeller. A return to a shoestring staff of unqualified amateurs is not the way forward.

[Danny]

This will bring the staff to about 30.

Thanks. I really have no idea what Sue is doing. Then again, I am pretty convinced that she doesn't either. She is, however, putting in a rather bloated staff. Six more hires (http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Job_openings) at $90,000 is kind of ridiculous, if you ask me. Charity my ass.

I followed the link and then went to the postings. Only two had any information about salary. The range was 70-95k. This seemed somewhat high given the smallish nature of WMF but perhaps not given the large extent of unpaid actors (volunteers is not always the right word). I'm pretty sure the Intern is not comming in at 90k. If anything WMF seems too small for the desired task, especially if the worst problems caused by "the community" are ever to held in check.

Gardner is cluessless in many respects, as is clearly evidenced by her promotion of Moeller. A return to a shoestring staff of unqualified amateurs is not the way forward.

[dtobias]

I thought that it was an encyclopedia. Now it's a "news media"?

No, a news medium... "media" is plural.

[Milton Roe]

I thought that it was an encyclopedia. Now it's a "news media"?

No, a news medium... "media" is plural.

And medium because it's hardly ever well-done. (Old vaudeville joke--- Jack Parr?)

[thekohser]

Thanks. I really have no idea what Sue is doing. Then again, I am pretty convinced that she doesn't either. She is, however, putting in a rather bloated staff. Six more hires (http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Job_openings) at $90,000 is kind of ridiculous, if you ask me. Charity my ass.

Oooh, I could take a substantial pay cut, move to an even more expensive metro area, but be doing what I basically do for a living. Oh, wait. One year contract? Forget that.

[Cedric]

Thanks. I really have no idea what Sue is doing. Then again, I am pretty convinced that she doesn't either.

That sounds about right. Very much in keeping with the "We're making this shit up as we go along" ethos of Wikipedia.

[EricBarbour]

I followed the link and then went to the postings. Only two had any information about salary. The range was 70-95k. This seemed somewhat high given the smallish nature of WMF but perhaps not given the large extent of unpaid actors (volunteers is not always the right word).

Have you been to San Francisco lately?
A 2-bedroom apartment can easily cost you $3000 per month. A house? Million plus.
Even groceries in that town are more expensive than in surrounding environs....
(Complete with homeless schizophrenics and drug addicts everywhere downtown.)

Thanks. I really have no idea what Sue is doing. Then again, I am pretty convinced that she doesn't either.

Now that we are agreed that she is incompetent (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/evilgrin.gif) ......how does WMF rid itself of her and
her cronies? Tossing Jimbo out won't do the job, methinks.

This post has been edited by EricBarbour:

[Milton Roe]

I followed the link and then went to the postings. Only two had any information about salary. The range was 70-95k. This seemed somewhat high given the smallish nature of WMF but perhaps not given the large extent of unpaid actors (volunteers is not always the right word).

Have you been to San Francisco lately?
A 2-bedroom apartment can easily cost you $3000 per month. A house? Million plus.
Even groceries in that town are more expensive than in surrounding environs....
(Complete with homeless schizophrenics and drug addicts everywhere downtown.)

Thanks. I really have no idea what Sue is doing. Then again, I am pretty convinced that she doesn't either.

Now that we are agreed that she is incompetent (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/evilgrin.gif) ......how does WMF rid itself of her and
her cronies? Tossing Jimbo out won't do the job, methinks.

Well, since they're only an office for doing paperwork administration, they're free. Why can't they move to someplace where the cost of living and doing business is cheaper? Not San Francisco, for godsake where you have to pay your employees that much, just so they can afford a parking garage and the California personal income tax. San Francisco is one of the most expensive cities in the country to live in-- you have to go the NYC area to get much worse.

No, I'm thinking someplace with cheaper land like .... Florida. Oh, wait. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ermm.gif) But Florida is #35 in cost of living in the 50 states (only 15 are worse), and they moved from there to California, which is #49 (only Hawaii is worse = more expensive). Morons: out of the frying pan and into the fire.

Texas is nice at #2 (only Oklahoma is cheaper). There are some nice places in Texas-- some of it is mountainous, it's not all that West Texas desert.

[dtobias]

Mensa moved its national office from New York to Texas years ago, showing some intelligence. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)

The faction in its internal politics that supported this move had to fight tooth-and-nail against a clique of power freaks dead-set against it, and later the power freaks got back in control and turned the Texas office into an expensive bureaucracy which is taking increasing control of things over the local volunteers, despite it being in a lower-cost location.

This post has been edited by dtobias:

[Jon Awbrey]

Texas is nice at #2 (only Oklahoma is cheaper). There are some nice places in Texas — some of it is mountainous, it's not all that West Texas desert.

Galveston is nice if you're looking for beaches — and they would probably appreciate an infusion of cash right about now.

¡¡¡ Viva Cinco de Mayo !!!

Jon (IMG:http://wikipediareview.com/stimg9x0b4fsr2/1/folder_post_icons/icon9.gif)

[MZMcBride]

Jesus Christ. Bitterness at past wrongs takes new form with you, Danny. Move on much?

Legitimate criticism is fine and should be encouraged; the nonsense you've taken to spouting just makes you look like a bitter former employee.

[Cedric]

Jesus Christ. Bitterness at past wrongs takes new form with you, Danny. Move on much?

Legitimate criticism is fine and should be encouraged; the nonsense you've taken to spouting just makes you look like a bitter former employee.

Ah yes, the old "disgruntled former employee" meme. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/rolleyes.gif)

[Milton Roe]

Mensa moved its national office from New York to Texas years ago, showing some intelligence. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)

The faction in its internal politics that supported this move had to fight tooth-and-nail against a clique of power freaks dead-set against it, and later the power freaks got back in control and turned the Texas office into an expensive bureaucracy which is taking increasing control of things over the local volunteers, despite it being in a lower-cost location.

As in the case of NASA I'm completely amazed at how much intelligent thought and goal-oriented behavior toward some worthwhile project* ends up COMPLETELY subordinated to petty office politics, the struggle for minor amounts of power in minimal-stake games, and so on.

And then I realize (again) that all of our intelligence was probably developed IN THE SERVICE of playing petty "office politics" (in the days before we had offices, but it was the same tribal band stuff). So it's to be expected. It probably has something to do with sex and the politics of better mate or resource access in small groups, in return for even minimal social climbing.

Anyway, it corrodes all organizations. Mired in little fiefdoms, they can't remember their mission. Wikipedia is typical. In the military, infighting is so bad that interservice rivalry and interoffice politics takes precident over winning battles. At NASA, we Need Another Seven Astronauts regularly, or else suffer crippling delays, because a power stuggle killed the Saturn, our best man-rated booster. Just as it's now in the process of ruining the Shuttle's successor, the FUBAR Orion.

My fix for all this? Simple. Mandatory castration of all managment, for teams larger than 5.

Milton

(If you have fundamental problems about anything, don't be shy about asking. I can help).



* like ending hunger or disease, or finding out some new scientific fact

[Jon Awbrey]

I thought that it was an encyclopedia. Now it's a "news media"?

No, a news medium … "media" is plural.

Then why does my ZipDrive Manager keep telling me to —

"Put another media in —"

( — in the mediodeon … ???)

Ja Ja (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/boing.gif)

[Jon Awbrey]

Thanks. I really have no idea what Sue is doing. Then again, I am pretty convinced that she doesn't either.

That sounds about right. Very much in keeping with the "We're making this shit up as we go along" ethos of Wikipedia.

They will say pretty much anything that plays to the audience of the moment.

Promise them anything — but give them Arbcom.

Ja Ja (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/boing.gif)

[Danny]

Actually, as someone who was involved from long before you could spell Wikipedia and who invested more of himself in it than just about anyone, I think that a change of purpose from encyclopedia to news media is worthy of comment. Unlike David Gerard or many of the others, yourself included, I was there when the mission statement was written. I even participated in some small way. I would think it behooves me to comment when some comes from the outside and changes it.

Then again, I learned long ago that there is no arguing with a cult. Sadly, that is what Wikipedia has become.

Jesus Christ. Bitterness at past wrongs takes new form with you, Danny. Move on much?

Legitimate criticism is fine and should be encouraged; the nonsense you've taken to spouting just makes you look like a bitter former employee.

[dtobias]

Actually, as someone who was involved from long before you could spell Wikipedia

...and one of the few people who top-posts replies even on a web forum like this. Your sense of netiquette is a little odd.