Abd-William M. Connolley, The Cabal strikes back Options

[Abd]

Isn't the case a little more restricted than you're implying? It's not an RfC on William M. Connolley.

It isn't? Damn! I must be really confused. RfC RfAr, they both begin with Rf. But, yeah, the second has four letters. You're right, Mathsci! It's not an RfC, a toothless proceeding in itself.

It's an RfAr, which is the only process on Wikipedia which has the authority to remove the privileges of an administrator, and if it is found that WMC has acted while involved, and the claim of that is central to the RfAr, one of the options that ArbComm will consider is, indeed, desysopping. He's been warned for it before. And he continued to insist on his right to act, whereas JzG actually disconnected and abstained, mostly, with only a little sock he had for lunch in the middle of his RfC, after all, dragons do need to eat occasionally, and the sock surely asked for it by openly criticizing JzG.

I'm probably not going to be suggesting desysopping, though I might change my mind, I suppose. But do realize, Mathsci, that one of the arbitrators recused, suggesting he might comment. Take a look at which one, and then look at the RfC for GoRight. It might give you some clue, something which you apparently didn't pick up at the university. That's okay, for sure, hardly anyone does.

[Cla68]

If you want WMC's behavior to be corrected, you're going to need to put in the hours and present the evidence. It will probably take you a few days of work, but that's how it goes. Some participants here may help you out a little by posting incidents and diffs that they remember as they watch you work, but you'll need to get the ball rolling if this is important to you.

Also, if you're going to say that there is a cabal at work, you'll need to build your case with evidence.

Isn't the case a little more restricted than you're implying? It's not an RfC on William M. Connolley.

Well, there does appear to be a content dispute going on also. The thing is, WMC is the admin who responded to it, so the effectiveness of his remedial actions I would think would be one of the areas of scrutiny. That's why I'm asking ABD what he wants. He appears to be saying that he just wants someone to intervene in the situation. ArbCom can't resolve content disputes, so unless ABD is looking for some corrective action for the other involved people, then I don't think he should have requested a case.

ABD, the reason I keep repeating myself about evidence, is because, from what I've observed, you often use reason and rhetoric as evidence. That's usually not enough. You need diffs, links, quotes, that kind of thing. I see that you say that you are aware of this. OK, fine, I won't say anymore about it.

[Mathsci]

It might give you some clue, something which you apparently didn't pick up at the university. That's okay, for sure, hardly anyone does.

Grandad, I never left university, you silly oid codger. Did you forget your bran flakes this morning? Mind you, the kids these days do seem much brighter than all those loopy 60s Pasadena freshmen.

Too much dope I suppose. I blame it all on Princess Margaret. And John Profumo. And Yoko Ono.

I'd stick to gardening, dominos and bowls. They all work a treat in easing down that unwanted chip on the shoulder. It looks as if it's playing up again, doesn't it?

Camomile lotion might also help.

[EricBarbour]

Grandad, I never left university, you silly oid codger. Did you forget your bran flakes this morning? Mind you, the kids these days do seem much brighter than all those loopy 60s Pasadena freshmen.
Too much dope I suppose. I blame it all on Princess Margaret. And John Profumo. And Yoko Ono.
I'd stick to gardening, dominos and bowls. They all work a treat in easing down that unwanted chip on the shoulder. It looks as if it's playing up again, doesn't it?
Camomile lotion might also help.

Keep talking, asshole. Keep making snark about your critics.
Your bullshit blatherings are among the best features of WR.

Thanks for the un-encyclopedic drama.

Whilst you're about it, send Connolley and Raul over here so we can laugh at their
always-pompous snivelling.

This post has been edited by EricBarbour: Tue 21st July 2009, 9:09am

[Mathsci]

Keep talking, asshole. Keep making snark about your critics.
Your bullshit blatherings are among the best features of WR.

Your directness is refreshing.

And thanks for the compliment. I shall frame it.

[A Horse With No Name]

I think you're selling him a bit short. What I can't figure out is whether there's one user or two inside the horse costume, though.

There's just one Horsey.

Oh, by the way, Lar...is Rock's Anne single? If so, I'll be happy to trot on over later to make her acquaintance.

[Viridae]

WR members are usually interested in this sort of thing:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=303320021

[Cla68]

WR members are usually interested in this sort of thing:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=303320021

Mathsci, do you think that WMC was correct in removing his adversary's comments from the case Workshop page?

[Mathsci]

Mathsci, do you think that WMC was correct in removing his adversary's comments from the case Workshop page?

My views:

- your of the use "adversary" begs too many questions - think about it a little

- I gave WMC advice on his talk page - possibly there was too much whiskey in his porridge this morning

- Abd has restored his meandering comments in one of his famous collapse boxes -far better than any sleeping pills

- Viridae's edits were dramamongering, just like Abd's attempts to manufacture incidents during the setting up of the ArbCom case

- Hersfold polices the case pages, not WMC or Viridae

- the clerk can handle the rest - the whole ArbCom case is unusually volatile which I very much regret

- if you think there's a case to be made against WMC, make it yourself

But why discuss this here Cla68? Why don't you do it on wikipedia itself?

This post has been edited by Mathsci: Tue 21st July 2009, 4:20pm

[Grep]

On-WP, you are dense with incivility, here, you are all pleasantries and smileys. Far out.

I had been planning to answer that Mathsci had obviously decided that humour and the light touch would be more effective in this forum than aggression and insults -- giving the impression that any allegations against him are just part of one big joke, couldn't possibly be serious. OTOH he seems to have thought better of it during the course of the day.

However, a much more hilarious explanation is that this Mathsci is not the WP Mathsci at all. In fact, it makes much more sense to suggest that WR:Mathsci must be A.K.Noll, amusing herself by discrediting WP:Mathsci, while I must really be WP:Mathsci, drawing attention to WP:Mathsci's antics to show off how much I'm getting away with.

But as usual, real life is not as much fun as that. I expect it just depends on which member of the team is operating the account at any given moment.

[Abd]

Grandad, I never left university, you silly oid codger.

Ah, that explains it! I did. Boy, did I leave. In good standing, I could have gone back, but .... there is a lot in the world that isn't very accessible in academia. Understatement.

Did you forget your bran flakes this morning?

No, very low-carb diet. Coffee and cream, mostly, heavy cream. Amazing fuel, very efficient.

Mind you, the kids these days do seem much brighter than all those loopy 60s Pasadena freshmen.

Yeah, we were really ruined by hanging out with Pauling, Feynmann, Mossbauer, et al. Those guys were iconoclasts, unlike too many academics these days.

Too much dope I suppose. I blame it all on Princess Margaret. And John Profumo. And Yoko Ono.

Too much dope? Oxymoron! Or is it oxy, moron? I'm a Muslim, you might never guess, but -- no dope, no alcohol. Coffee and prescription drugs, under supervision, allowed. Aren't I lucky? Paid for by Medicare. Great stuff, actually. Both.

I'd stick to gardening, dominos and bowls. They all work a treat in easing down that unwanted chip on the shoulder. It looks as if it's playing up again, doesn't it?

Nah. Look, young pipsqueaks like you imagine that they can understand someone with some depth, project all their own crap on others. You're making a idiot of yourself on Wikipedia, and, believe me, that's the part where I give you good advice. You deserve what you have wished for others, that's how the world works, and how it should work. It's perfect.

Camomile lotion might also help.

Nah. Don't need it. I'm not feeling what you think I'm feeling, you are living in your own fantasy world, a world I left many decades ago. Damn! I'm lucky. Lots of people never escape. In any case, if any of you are familiar with the Qur'an, not necessarily common here, I'm fulfilling my religious obligation, which is only to convey what I see, not to demand that anyone follow it. I'm sure that I'm often quite unskillful, but those who actually have some AGF in their hearts will get past that with some patience. As to the rest, I'm not responsible.

Thanks for sharing.

The thing is, WMC is the admin who responded to it, so the effectiveness of his remedial actions I would think would be one of the areas of scrutiny. That's why I'm asking ABD what he wants. He appears to be saying that he just wants someone to intervene in the situation.

No, I don't "want someone to intervene." Many editors have complained about WMC -- or the cabal. Okay, here is a chance to do something about it. Take it or leave it.

I can say this: a bunch of incoherent rants about WMC will not help. I'm not seeking to have WMC desysopped, but if others want to suggest that as a remedy, they may, but, then, it should be based on evidence of a continued pattern, not just the present case, probably, and I may not present that evidence, depends on whether I have time or not.

As to the cabal, relevance is tricky. They are going to try to crucify me over the cabal claim, which is only narrowly important so far, so it might be helpful to have testimony on that.

It's really up to anyone who reads this. Intervene or don't. Do what's right for the project. WP:IAR , however, is not just for WMC. It's policy, one of our best, properly understood.

[Mathsci]

On-WP, you are dense with incivility, here, you are all pleasantries and smileys. Far out.

I had been planning to answer that Mathsci had obviously decided that humour and the light touch would be more effective in this forum than aggression and insults -- giving the impression that any allegations against him are just part of one big joke, couldn't possibly be serious. OTOH he seems to have thought better of it during the course of the day.

However, a much more hilarious explanation is that this Mathsci is not the WP Mathsci at all. In fact, it makes much more sense to suggest that WR:Mathsci must be A.K.Noll, amusing herself by discrediting WP:Mathsci, while I must really be WP:Mathsci, drawing attention to WP:Mathsci's antics to show off how much I'm getting away with.

But as usual, real life is not as much fun as that. I expect it just depends on which member of the team is operating the account at any given moment.

Two things.

One frivolous - Cla68 has always had ambitions in the circus - that is why he's been doing clown impressions on WR.

The other is far more serious and worrying - it probably demands immediate attention.

When you bend down, do you notice a grey amorphous liquid streaming out of your ears?

This post has been edited by Mathsci: Tue 21st July 2009, 10:52pm

[Milton Roe]

The other is far more serious and worrying - it probably demands immediate attention.

When you bend down, do you notice a grey amorphous liquid streaming out of your ears?

No, its a grey morphous liquid. Amorphous liquids disturb me, as you never know where they might have been.

[Mathsci]

In any case, if any of you are familiar with the Qur'an, not necessarily common here, I'm fulfilling my religious obligation, which is only to convey what I see, not to demand that anyone follow it.

OMG, Grandad, not another lecture on your crackpot views of the number nineteen.

Please spare us, oh verbose one, and lead us not into your walls of life-draining prose.

Remember that today is the holy day of Mary Magdalen,
She that in a boat, with neither rudder nor sail,
Came to these shores from the Holy Land
To end her days in a mountain cave,
After which she was conveyed thence
By flights of angels in the skies to
31 rue Gaston Saporta, Aix-en-Provence, 13100, Bouches-du-Rhone, CEDEX 9.

Lest we forget.

[Cla68]

Mathsci, do you think that WMC was correct in removing his adversary's comments from the case Workshop page?

My views:

- your of the use "adversary" begs too many questions - think about it a little

- I gave WMC advice on his talk page - possibly there was too much whiskey in his porridge this morning

- Abd has restored his meandering comments in one of his famous collapse boxes -far better than any sleeping pills

- Viridae's edits were dramamongering, just like Abd's attempts to manufacture incidents during the setting up of the ArbCom case

- Hersfold polices the case pages, not WMC or Viridae

- the clerk can handle the rest - the whole ArbCom case is unusually volatile which I very much regret

- if you think there's a case to be made against WMC, make it yourself

But why discuss this here Cla68? Why don't you do it on wikipedia itself?

The clerks do need to sleep sometimes. Some of them might even have jobs which require their attention from time to time, so it's up to others to help police the case pages when necessary. Police action shouldn't be necessary, but WMC doesn't appear to feel that the rules apply to him.

Right here is a fine place to discuss the case. In fact, this is a better place to discuss it than in Wikipedia, because we can talk more freely. For one thing, if one of us criticizes WMC here, we don't have to worry about him deleting our comments.

[Mathsci]

Mathsci, do you think that WMC was correct in removing his adversary's comments from the case Workshop page?

My views:

- your of the use "adversary" begs too many questions - think about it a little

- I gave WMC advice on his talk page - possibly there was too much whiskey in his porridge this morning

- Abd has restored his meandering comments in one of his famous collapse boxes -far better than any sleeping pills

- Viridae's edits were dramamongering, just like Abd's attempts to manufacture incidents during the setting up of the ArbCom case

- Hersfold polices the case pages, not WMC or Viridae

- the clerk can handle the rest - the whole ArbCom case is unusually volatile which I very much regret

- if you think there's a case to be made against WMC, make it yourself

But why discuss this here Cla68? Why don't you do it on wikipedia itself?

The clerks do need to sleep sometimes. Some of them might even have jobs which require their attention from time to time, so it's up to others to help police the case pages when necessary. Police action shouldn't be necessary, but WMC doesn't appear to feel that the rules apply to him.

Right here is a fine place to discuss the case. In fact, this is a better place to discuss it than in Wikipedia, because we can talk more freely. For one thing, if one of us criticizes WMC here, we don't have to worry about him deleting our comments.

Too few clerks there are.

Are you not, Sir, the most pretentious, snivelling, fawning, digging, flattering creature, that
ever upon this earth did walk, that ask such trifling questions with curled lip, furrowed
brow and false heart ...

What, Sir, is this Monstrous Lie you tell?

[Cla68]

Are you not, Sir, the most pretentious, snivelling, fawning, digging, flattering creature, that
ever upon this earth did walk, that ask such trifling questions with curled lip, furrowed
brow and false heart ...

What, Sir, is this Monstrous Lie you tell?

I think you just yelled "Balls!" at me, but with a little more style.

[Abd]

OMG, Grandad, not another lecture on your crackpot views of the number nineteen.

wow! Mathsci must be a follower of Rashad Khalifa, because who else would call an essay debunking Khalifa's theory of 0 modulo 19 patterns in the Qur'an "crackpot views"? Martin Gardner ended up using some of my work.

Thanks for the link, Mathsci, I haven't seen that essay for one very long time. Notice the post office box address. San Quentin is a tiny community of a few houses and a post office and a very large state prison. I spent a lot of time with lifers and various inmates. For a while we had a Saudi prince there, little mixup with an unpaid hotel bill. A very large unpaid hotel bill.

Nice people, compared to certain Wikipedia editors and administrators. Much nicer. Then again, there, I had a captive audience. But I listened a lot more than I spoke.

Please spare us, oh verbose one, and lead us not into your walls of life-draining prose.

Granted. Reading what I write has been, by decree of the Universal Benefit Council, prohibited for you. If you are tempted to violate this commandment, designed only for your blessing and welfare, contemplate the dog-vomit slime mold image at the top of my Talk page. Did you imagine that this was a joke?

From your behavior at RfAr, I suspect that you have read much more than the safe limit. Immediately, draw a bath and immerse your head in it for as long as you can.

If you can't draw a bath, then use a photo.

Here is what I've been seeing: we have editors who can't describe accurately what has just happened in full view, with a complete record available in history, but they imagine that they can write neutral encyclopedia articles. I've been reading a series of ArbComm decisions to identify cabal editors, it's been much clearer than I expected.

Very, very predictable opinions, but not just on, say, science, where similarities of views might be expected. On behavior, on Wikipedia principles and policies, and on opinions about the good faith or bad faith of other editors, it's like they are all being programmed from the same source. Zombies can march together without any leader, or, more accurately, anyone of them can function as a leader. One of them says something and the others go "Yeah!" "Me too!" "That's right!"

But what they agree on has been thoroughly rejected by ArbComm and the community, and they only get away with their crap because they mass together here and there. It's a losing battle, because someone like Raul654 creates sock masters right and left, which justifies his job. All it took was WMC, Raul654, and another admin who seems to be gone, in 2006, and presto! over 300 Scibaby socks, keeping Raul654 busy playing whack-a-mole. It's finally being confronted, arbitrators and others are realizing that the range blocks are playing havoc with the "encyclopedia anyone can edit," and it's actually being said, louder than a whisper, that Scibaby socks aren't that disruptive.

Mathsci, if you have read this far, you are not following instructions.

You are on the side of the losers, the cabal is defined by its anti-Arbcomm position, its firm belief in its own rightness, and its ruthlessness in dealing with dissent, and, in spite of all your work, you will find that you are unable to maintain it, you will be blocked and banned, sputtering all the while about those excellent articles. Much better editors than you, experts, have been banned. They may have known their topic, but they did not know people.

I'd like to fix that, retaining experts is a project, but you probably would not let me help you, and it may take some years before what I'm doing to become visible and effective. For you, I see no open doors, no windows, nothing penetrating the terrifying vacuum at the center of your psyche. Now, *I* need to stop reading or the dog vomit slime mold will eat *me*! It's a great pet to have in the corner, but it's a little dangerous.

This post has been edited by Abd: Wed 22nd July 2009, 4:24am

[Mathsci]

Thanks for the link, Mathsci, I haven't seen that essay for one very long time. Notice the post office box address. San Quentin is a tiny community of a few houses and a post office and a very large state prison. I spent a lot of time with lifers and various inmates. For a while we had a Saudi prince there, little mixup with an unpaid hotel bill. A very large unpaid hotel bill.

I will use this material for a BLP of Dennis Lomax on wikipedia.

Didn't they try to convert San Quentin into a luxury hotel?

Are you not, Sir, the most pretentious, snivelling, fawning, digging, flattering creature, that
ever upon this earth did walk, that ask such trifling questions with curled lip, furrowed
brow and false heart ...

What, Sir, is this Monstrous Lie you tell?

I think you just yelled "Balls!" at me, but with a little more style.

Monsieur, it would be "couilles" and I do thank you not to be putting these things into my mouth ! Putain.

This post has been edited by Mathsci: Wed 22nd July 2009, 7:28am

[EricBarbour]

a) this thread belongs in the tarpit;
b) it's getting dull and repetitive anyway, so nevermind.