Cirt revisited Options

[pietkuip]

... with your combative nature. You really shouldn't criticize others while your own house is in such disarray.

I do not have much to do combat with. But you have all these hats and buttons. When I made a DR of your uploads, you knocked me down with a block. Abuse of power.

And back to the subject - "combative" fits Cirt.

This post has been edited by pietkuip: Thu 9th December 2010, 7:26am

[EricBarbour]

Hey Lar, if you wanna bitch Kuiper out (and he does deserve a little bit),
you ought to open a new thread.

This is exactly how Cirt deals with criticism--by sleazy backstabbing and manipulation.
If an opponent does not have a warning or block, Cirt will sometimes manufacture one.
It's a tired old story, and obviously Cirt is "special", because he-she gets away with it all
day long. If admins really cared, they would put an end to Cirt's endless assaults on
people like Erhard and various Scientologists. It appears that no one cares--except here.

If anyone should be depressed about this state of affairs, it should be you, Lar.

[Lar]

Hey Lar, if you wanna bitch Kuiper out (and he does deserve a little bit),
you ought to open a new thread.

This is exactly how Cirt deals with criticism--by sleazy backstabbing and manipulation.
If an opponent does not have a warning or block, Cirt will sometimes manufacture one.
It's a tired old story, and obviously Cirt is "special", because he-she gets away with it all
day long. If admins really cared, they would put an end to Cirt's endless assaults on
people like Erhard and various Scientologists. It appears that no one cares--except here.

If anyone should be depressed about this state of affairs, it should be you, Lar.

I just find it funny to hear Kuiper complaining (as I find it funny to hear Wikifan123456789 complaining), because it's so hypocritical.

And ya, I'm depressed. But I'm (commons-wise) more depressed about the policy ( to require things like permissions and proof of age when it seems prudent... http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons_...content#Support ) struggling to get adopted than I am about Kuiper's misstatements.

I keep thinking I should just give up, there's no hope, the whole thing's unfixable. But it does get a bit better here and there from time to time.

[HRIP7]

And back to the subject - "combative" fits Cirt.

Note Cirt's spat with Scott MacDonald a few days ago. Cirt backed down in the end.

And there is currently an ANI spat between Cirt and Delicious Carbuncle.

While Delicious Carbuncle was in the wrong there as regards the BLP source, he is right for much of the rest. The thing is that in a way this comes a year or two too late -- Cirt is not quite the out-of-control POV warrior any more that s/he was then, and has been far more reasonable of late.

[HRIP7]

And ya, I'm depressed. But I'm (commons-wise) more depressed about the policy ( to require things like permissions and proof of age when it seems prudent... http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons_...content#Support ) struggling to get adopted than I am about Kuiper's misstatements.

I keep thinking I should just give up, there's no hope, the whole thing's unfixable. But it does get a bit better here and there from time to time.

That Commons poll is indeed depressing. The lack of hope is the logical and inevitable result of these demographics and the projects' decision-making structure, whose failings Scott put it in a nutshell 2.5 years ago:

Wikipedia isn't governed by the thoughtful or the informed - it is governed by anyone who turns up. There are a small core of people who like playing wiki as an inhouse role-playing game and simply deny real-world consequences that might limit their freedom of action. There are a larger group who are too immature or lazy to think straight. And then there are all those who recognise "something must be done", but perpetually oppose the something that's being proposed in favour of a "better idea". The mechanism is rather like using a chatshow phone-in to manage the intricacies of a federal budget - it does not work for issues that need time, thought, responsibility and attention. I doubt this problem can be fixed - since it needs structural change to decision making - which is impossible for precisely the same reasons.

[carbuncle]

And back to the subject - "combative" fits Cirt.

Note Cirt's spat with Scott MacDonald a few days ago. Cirt backed down in the end.

And there is currently an ANI spat between Cirt and Delicious Carbuncle.

While Delicious Carbuncle was in the wrong there as regards the BLP source, he is right for much of the rest. The thing is that in a way this comes a year or two too late -- Cirt is not quite the out-of-control POV warrior any more that s/he was then, and has been far more reasonable of late.

You misread what happened in the dispute between Scott and Cirt. Cirt had managed to stymie any effort to substantially remove obvious puffery from Sorrentini's bio. When Cirt raised the issue about sourcing at the reliable sources noticeboard, the very next thing they did was remove the disputed items so that the article was not tagged with a "POV dispute" template when people went to look at it. Otherwise, I'm sure it would have been removed when Scott gave up arguing about the details of an article that really shouldn't exist anyway. Meaning no offence, this is a minor TV actor with no significant credits, like literally thousands working in television at any one time.

I really do not wish to enable Scientologists to return to WP to push their point of view, but Cirt is being allowed to get away with all kinds of nonsense as WP's anti-Scientology attack dog. There are a number of articles that exist simply to label some otherwise unremarkable business or person as connected to the CoS. This is a systematic use of WP as the classic "organ of revenge", even if it is "far more reasonable of late".

[HRIP7]

I really do not wish to enable Scientologists to return to WP to push their point of view, but Cirt is being allowed to get away with all kinds of nonsense as WP's anti-Scientology attack dog. There are a number of articles that exist simply to label some otherwise unremarkable business or person as connected to the CoS. This is a systematic use of WP as the classic "organ of revenge", even if it is "far more reasonable of late".

I note Cirt has taken you to WP:AE.

Sad, but not surprising.

[spp]

Looks like he is canvassing too with a non-neutral message.

I would post this on the AE request but I would probably be called a sock puppet or something. It is glaringly obvious what Cirt, Smee, Smeeglova, Curt von whatsisname has been doing for the last 5 years but it seems to align with the house POV which means nothing gets done about it. So much for a neutral encyclopedia. Why did I waste so much time editing? (And why do I continue to get attracted to all the dramahz...).

[spp]

And DC gets smacked by someone canvassed. Cirt: Free to do what they have been doing.

Color me surprised.

[Milton Roe]

I really do not wish to enable Scientologists to return to WP to push their point of view, but Cirt is being allowed to get away with all kinds of nonsense as WP's anti-Scientology attack dog. There are a number of articles that exist simply to label some otherwise unremarkable business or person as connected to the CoS. This is a systematic use of WP as the classic "organ of revenge", even if it is "far more reasonable of late".

I note Cirt has taken you to WP:AE.
Sad, but not surprising.

I'm tempted to dig up some old WP propaganda about how WP's "neutral" approach was capable of solving every political problem of mankind, and was possibly a new discovery in How To Do Things. A main bit of propaganda in 2006 being the idea that SCIENTOLOGY had an article on WP that EVEN SCIENTOLOGISTS were happy with. So everybody was happy with WP's neutral ways. Yes, they were.

Well, I guess that was a rather overinflated or overoptimistic claim, now, wasn't it?

Where's my apology from WP, for their smugness? They used Scientology in their own wiki-propaganda, for a very, very long time.

[EricBarbour]

(And why do I continue to get attracted to all the dramahz...)

Uh, because it beats the crap out of watching American Idol?......

Whoever Cirt really is (and there's been some talk that the Cirt account is being shared by two or more people), he/she/they will get one hell of a bullshit-filled memoir out of all this. Too bad there's no action, singing or dancing, or crime---without one of the "traditional" grabbers, it all translates into poor book sales. CIRT: The Most Boring Nerd Memoir Ever Written!

[Peter Damian]

The lack of hope is the logical and inevitable result of these demographics

That's an amazing demographic. The box for the older age group is 31-85, that's a total of 54 years lumped into a single category. 25% of editors under 18. 50% under 22. Did someone question the other day whether there were really 'hordes of teenage admins'? And 75% 30 or under. 75% of all Wikipedians have no partner. 90% are male. kind of plays up to the stereotype.

This post has been edited by Peter Damian: Tue 14th December 2010, 8:14am

[thekohser]

The lack of hope is the logical and inevitable result of these demographics

That's an amazing demographic. The box for the older age group is 31-85, that's a total of 54 years lumped into a single category. 25% of editors under 18. 50% under 22. Did someone question the other day whether there were really 'hordes of teenage admins'? And 75% 30 or under. 75% of all Wikipedians have no partner. 90% are male. kind of plays up to the stereotype.

What is the significance of the bar sections in blue versus those in yellow?

Yet another example of the fine research output from Wikimedia insider and supporter "Bridgespan Partners".

Yes, you'll want to check out those links.

[Doc glasgow]

The lack of hope is the logical and inevitable result of these demographics

That's an amazing demographic. The box for the older age group is 31-85, that's a total of 54 years lumped into a single category. 25% of editors under 18. 50% under 22. Did someone question the other day whether there were really 'hordes of teenage admins'? And 75% 30 or under. 75% of all Wikipedians have no partner. 90% are male. kind of plays up to the stereotype.

I am married.
I am well over 31.
I am not Jewish.
I am not gay.
I have never worn women's clothing, nor been sexually attracted to animals or small children.
I do not have aspergers, strong feelings on global warming, or an obsession with Intelligent Design.
I am not terribly interested in the second amendment to the US constitution, and for the most part I find pornography aesthetically dull.


So, you can see why I wonder if I really belong in a Wikimedia community.

[carbuncle]

What is the significance of the bar sections in blue versus those in yellow?

Everyone knows that graphs should have a bump in the middle. It's called standard divination. I thought you were supposed to know stuff like this?

[Herschelkrustofsky]

Looks like he is canvassing too with a non-neutral message.

I would post this on the AE request but I would probably be called a sock puppet or something. It is glaringly obvious what Cirt, Smee, Smeeglova, Curt von whatsisname has been doing for the last 5 years but it seems to align with the house POV which means nothing gets done about it. So much for a neutral encyclopedia. Why did I waste so much time editing? (And why do I continue to get attracted to all the dramahz...).

It's on AN/I, and Will Beback comes riding to Cirt's defense. Jayen466 made Cirt canvass.

[HRIP7]

The lack of hope is the logical and inevitable result of these demographics

That's an amazing demographic. The box for the older age group is 31-85, that's a total of 54 years lumped into a single category. 25% of editors under 18. 50% under 22. Did someone question the other day whether there were really 'hordes of teenage admins'? And 75% 30 or under. 75% of all Wikipedians have no partner. 90% are male. kind of plays up to the stereotype.

I am married.
I am well over 31.
I am not Jewish.
I am not gay.
I have never worn women's clothing, nor been sexually attracted to animals or small children.
I do not have aspergers, strong feelings on global warming, or an obsession with Intelligent Design.
I am not terribly interested in the second amendment to the US constitution, and for the most part I find pornography aesthetically dull.


So, you can see why I wonder if I really belong in a Wikimedia community.

Same here. I am even a dad.

I must say that those demographics have made me reassess what I can reasonably hope to achieve in Wiki[m/p]edia projects. Not much, basically.

[spp]

And the latest appeal shows that DC's tactic of shedding light on a dark situatiion worked. Some of the admins are getting a clue

[Herschelkrustofsky]

And the latest appeal shows that DC's tactic of shedding light on a dark situatiion worked. Some of the admins are getting a clue

Interesting. I'm a latecomer to this thread, and sometimes I can't tell the players without a program, so may I ask a few n00besque questions?

1. I see that DC's well-written argument refers to Cirt with plural pronouns. What's up with that?

2. Is DC the same person as Jayen? As i recall, Jayen has an account here, but I've forgotten the name. Could someone sort all this out for me?

[HRIP7]

And the latest appeal shows that DC's tactic of shedding light on a dark situatiion worked. Some of the admins are getting a clue

Interesting. I'm a latecomer to this thread, and sometimes I can't tell the players without a program, so may I ask a few n00besque questions?

1. I see that DC's well-written argument refers to Cirt with plural pronouns. What's up with that?

2. Is DC the same person as Jayen? As i recall, Jayen has an account here, but I've forgotten the name. Could someone sort all this out for me?

Smeelgova/Smee, Cirt's old account, was uniformly referred to as "she" in Wikipedia, and to my knowledge never corrected anyone referring to her as such. Cirt, the new account, usually goes by "he". Nobody knows which it is, and it doesn't really matter, though I personally tend to assume it's a "she". "They" is probably safest.

Delicious Carbuncle is Carbuncle here. Andreas/Jayen466 is HRIP7 (me).