Could it be any worse? Options

[Kelly Martin]

Ran across this image recently. This fine work was executed to illustrate the article on smocking. The problem with this is that the work presented of absolutely horrific quality; if this were my work I would be tempted to burn it and under no circumstance would I let anyone see it. I'm sure that a five year old could do better than this.

Of course, one look at who created this travesty of textile arts and you'll understand why this is on Wikipedia.

(IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/sick.gif)

[Jon Awbrey]

Ran across this image recently. This fine work was executed to illustrate the article on smocking. The problem with this is that the work presented of absolutely horrific quality; if this were my work I would be tempted to burn it and under no circumstance would I let anyone see it. I'm sure that a five year old could do better than this.

Of course, one look at who created this travesty of textile arts and you'll understand why this is on Wikipedia.

(IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/sick.gif)

Not To Be Confused With → (IMG:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/33/SMocking.gif)

Jon (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

[Enric_Naval]

So make a better smocking sampler, photograph it, and impress us with your workmanship.

[GlassBeadGame]

So make a better smocking sampler, photograph it, and impress us with your workmanship.

Fuck off and die.

[MZMcBride]

So make a better smocking sampler, photograph it, and impress us with your workmanship.

Fuck off and die.

(IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wtf.gif)

[Newyorkbrad]

So make a better smocking sampler, photograph it, and impress us with your workmanship.

Fuck off and die.

Are those the only choices?

[GlassBeadGame]

So make a better smocking sampler, photograph it, and impress us with your workmanship.

Fuck off and die.

Are those the only choices?

Maybe I should make manifest the subtext. You have entered a place where your values will not find universal acceptance.

[Kelly Martin]

So make a better smocking sampler, photograph it, and impress us with your workmanship.

Pay me for it, and I will.

Wikipedia: where we'll publish any old crap you give us, because we're too cheap to care about values.

[Casliber]

I think what happens is no-one thinks to take photos of certain things - this often happens with common plants and birds, and things like pieces of fruit, recipes etc. Once a few folks get involved, better images come along. I recall the article on tooth/teeth going this way, and certainly some bird species articles too.

[TungstenCarbide]

Ran across this image recently. This fine work was executed to illustrate the article on smocking. The problem with this is that the work presented of absolutely horrific quality; if this were my work I would be tempted to burn it and under no circumstance would I let anyone see it. I'm sure that a five year old could do better than this.

Of course, one look at who created this travesty of textile arts and you'll understand why this is on Wikipedia.

(IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/sick.gif)

"Could it be any worse?"

Why yes, it could be and is; http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Penis

[Zoloft]

So make a better smocking sampler, photograph it, and impress us with your workmanship.

Fuck off and die.

Are those the only choices?

Maybe I should make manifest the subtext. You have entered a place where your values will not find universal acceptance.

I thought you were simply requesting help changing (and perhaps protecting) this sad redirect.. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

This post has been edited by Zoloft:

[dtobias]

So make a better smocking sampler, photograph it, and impress us with your workmanship.

Fuck off and die.

Now, if only you can convince the New Hampshire state government to put that on their license plates instead of the tired old "Live free or die" slogan! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

[EricBarbour]

So make a better smocking sampler, photograph it, and impress us with your workmanship.

Fuck off and die.

Are those the only choices?

Personally I was in favor of forcing Brad and Durova to strip naked,
then super-gluing their bellies together, so they are permanently stuck
face to face. Damn, that would make an awesome photo on Commons.

This post has been edited by EricBarbour:

[Doc glasgow]

So make a better smocking sampler, photograph it, and impress us with your workmanship.

Fuck off and die.

Are those the only choices?

Personally I was in favor of forcing Brad and Durova to strip naked,
then super-gluing their bellies together, so they are permanently stuck
face to face. Damn, that would make an awesome photo on Commons.

Not really, I'm sure it would languish in an existing category over-full of such things.

[The Adversary]

Ran across this image recently. This fine work was executed to illustrate the article on smocking. The problem with this is that the work presented of absolutely horrific quality; if this were my work I would be tempted to burn it and under no circumstance would I let anyone see it. I'm sure that a five year old could do better than this.

Of course, one look at who created this travesty of textile arts and you'll understand why this is on Wikipedia.

(IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/sick.gif)

Sigh. I'm in two minds about this: on one hand I greatly appreciate what Durova has done for textile arts/ embroidery project (ok: so shoot me) -On the other hand: I would never have dared to show/produce anything like this even in my compulsary handicraft-classes when I was 10-12 years old (And yeah: I had to suffer through those. And hated it. If anyone tells me: "so produce something better yourself"..I'll throw my computer at them. )

And then to publish this on the internet, to let everyone see? Sorry, Durova: this is truly bad.

Some self-censorship might come in handy, even for "experiences" wiki-editors.

(but of course, the "wiki-way" say that even something horribly bad is better than nothing (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unhappy.gif) )

[Milton Roe]

So make a better smocking sampler, photograph it, and impress us with your workmanship.

Fuck off and die.

Are those the only choices?

Personally I was in favor of forcing Brad and Durova to strip naked,
then super-gluing their bellies together, so they are permanently stuck
face to face. Damn, that would make an awesome photo on Commons.

A couple named Mary and Kelly
Spent their honeymoon belly to belly
Because, in their haste,
They'd used library paste
Instead of petroleum jelly

[Kwork]

So make a better smocking sampler, photograph it, and impress us with your workmanship.

Fuck off and die.

Are those the only choices?

I suppose another option would be to upload this
http://www.flickr.com/photos/37869936@N00/493663266
or something better yet to Commons. Then you could get rid of the embarrassing quality crap in the article.

[Peter Damian]

I suppose another option would be to upload this
http://www.flickr.com/photos/37869936@N00/493663266
or something better yet to Commons. Then you could get rid of the embarrassing quality crap in the article.

That one is also quite horrible, though in a different way.

[Somey]

I hate to play Devil's Advocate here, but if the point is to show how the fabric is gathered, does the quality of the stitching itself really matter? One might even argue that high-quality stitching might distract the reader/viewer from the fabric-gathering effect. Besides, the world has spandex and lycra now - does anybody even need this technique, other than to make period costumes for Renaissance Festivals? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/hmmm.gif)

I'd be remiss if I didn't mention that the Smocking (T-H-L-K-D) article is about equal in length to the Textile industry (T-H-L-K-D) article, and actually has better sourcing - though admittedly the latter has an offshoot, Textile manufacture during the Industrial Revolution (T-H-L-K-D) that's also about the same length.

[Tarc]

So make a better smocking sampler, photograph it, and impress us with your workmanship.

I'd rather see an article with no images than one with poor-quality freebies. This is like the case with Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Rama (T-H-L-K-D), and admin who goes on crusades against fair-use photographs, subbing them for his own MS Paint-quality reproductions.

[Kelly Martin]

I hate to play Devil's Advocate here, but if the point is to show how the fabric is gathered, does the quality of the stitching itself really matter? One might even argue that high-quality stitching might distract the reader/viewer from the fabric-gathering effect.

I have around here somewhere a most excellent book on manipulating fabric that documents a whole host of methods for shaping fabric using many techniques, including smocking. That book features technically excellent photographs of masterfully executed articles each of which was specifically intended to document the particular method being discussed. Trust me, it is much easier to understand the technique when you are provided with technically superior examples photographed in a technically competent way.

Of course, the photographs in that book were taken by a professional and the articles being photographed were produced by a master of the craft. Neither statement can be said, without laughter, regarding Durova.

[Kwork]

I suppose another option would be to upload this
http://www.flickr.com/photos/37869936@N00/493663266
or something better yet to Commons. Then you could get rid of the embarrassing quality crap in the article.

That one is also quite horrible, though in a different way.

I am not an expert on embroidery, so I could be wrong, but if the intent is to show what a good quality example looks like, I think that image would probably do. There is no need to think in terms of how much you personally would want to wear it.

[Somey]

Of course, the photographs in that book were taken by a professional and the articles being photographed were produced by a master of the craft. Neither statement can be said, without laughter, regarding Durova.

Well then, I guess we're back to the same question we've always had about Durova, i.e., does she even realize what she's doing? I'd like to think have a healthy respect for women with big egos, even if they occasionally do things that suggest outright delusional thinking. But maybe I'm some sort of "reverse-sexist" for thinking along those lines.

Anyway, we should be glad it's just the article on Smocking, rather than Snogging (T-H-L-K-D) - the photo that accompanies the Snogging article isn't really all that bad, though I suppose it too would be better if it were done by professionals.

[Tarc]

Of course, the photographs in that book were taken by a professional and the articles being photographed were produced by a master of the craft. Neither statement can be said, without laughter, regarding Durova.

Well then, I guess we're back to the same question we've always had about Durova, i.e., does she even realize what she's doing? I'd like to think have a healthy respect for women with big egos, even if they occasionally do things that suggest outright delusional thinking. But maybe I'm some sort of "reverse-sexist" for thinking along those lines.

Anyway, we should be glad it's just the article on Smocking, rather than Snogging (T-H-L-K-D) - the photo that accompanies the Snogging article isn't really all that bad, though I suppose it too would be better if it were done by professionals.

NEEDS MOAR TONGUE

[Kwork]

Of course, the photographs in that book were taken by a professional and the articles being photographed were produced by a master of the craft. Neither statement can be said, without laughter, regarding Durova.

Well then, I guess we're back to the same question we've always had about Durova, i.e., does she even realize what she's doing? I'd like to think have a healthy respect for women with big egos, even if they occasionally do things that suggest outright delusional thinking. But maybe I'm some sort of "reverse-sexist" for thinking along those lines.

Anyway, we should be glad it's just the article on Smocking, rather than Snogging (T-H-L-K-D) - the photo that accompanies the Snogging article isn't really all that bad, though I suppose it too would be better if it were done by professionals.

People generally think they are doing the right thing, even if they are mistaken. The problem gets bigger when administrators, who are cops, start to enjoy using their authority while knowing they can usually get away with misuse. (I understand Durova is a retired wiki-cop, but she has kept plenty of clout.) There is no one to protect WP users from their protectors. It could be worse, but in kind it is the same as the violant misuses of (for example) NYPD:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUkiyBVytRQ...player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5I_lwQyxNI

[Somey]

Well, let's be somewhat fair about this - I don't think this is abuse that regular users need protection from. At worst, it's just some combination of egotism and self-promotion masquerading as a desire to provide helpful illustrations, which just happen to be not that good.

I say "self-promotion" despite the fact (or perhaps because of the fact) that I don't really know what Durova does for a living. Some of you may recall this topic, in which I myself pointed out how Wikipedia sound recordings could be used as a professional calling-card, in that case by Makemi (T-C-L-K-R-D) and Mindspillage (T-C-L-K-R-D) :

Think about it - if you're, let's say, a harpist who plays at wedding receptions and corporate functions, how much more impressive is it to tell prospective clients that if they want to hear one of your recordings, they just have to go check out the article on "Harp" in Wikipedia? Rather than going to your own personal website? That would be a pretty big selling point, seems to me... I realize it's all done within the rules, but you could probably use that to increase your performance fees pretty substantially!

Obviously it would be extremely hypocritical for Durova to do something like that, not to mention risky given the quality of the stitching in question. But I guess that sort of goes without saying at this point.

[Eva Destruction]

I say "self-promotion" despite the fact (or perhaps because of the fact) that I don't really know what Durova does for a living.

"Independent Writing and Editing Professional", apparently. I don't know if that's a fancy way of saying "freelance subeditor".

[The Adversary]

An illustration in this article can serve two purposes; to show how great the finished work can be (like the Holbein-painting) ..or a "how to" picture. And seriously: would you try to do any of the smocking techniques from Durovas picture? I certainly would not. (As for showing great finished work, there are many pictures on commons; what is needed is a "how to".)

And l agree with Kelly: I have collected several books on a special ethnic type of embroidery these last few years, and, even with my limited interest: I could do that embroidery (if I wanted to!) based on the pictures in those books.

Again; I feel, in one way very badly criticizing Durova on this, as she is one of the few who has done long-term work in the textile/embroidery area. Beggars cannot be choosers, and all that. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/mellow.gif)

The problem is: when someone put up "any" bad work; won't that put off improvement in the future? I think it will. And I think Durova needs some hints, hints, nudge, nudge, that she should concentrate her activities on something else than doing smocking samplers in the future.

I've seen this before: when people work in "low-intensity" areas in wp, it can be easy to get a rather false picture of the value of your own work. People simply don't get enough feedback.

Anyway, we should be glad it's just the article on Smocking, rather than Snogging (T-H-L-K-D) - the photo that accompanies the Snogging article isn't really all that bad, though I suppose it too would be better if it were done by professionals.

(IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/huh.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ermm.gif) To certain editors on wp: Dont.Even.Think.About.It. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/dry.gif)

[Trick cyclist]

Besides, the world has spandex and lycra now

Er - no. It has elastane. This is also known as spandex especially in the USA but according to the BBC spandex is actually a brand name. Lycra is the brand name for spandex used by Du Pont.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A676262

http://www.madehow.com/Volume-4/Spandex.html

[thekohser]

Can't some of this smocking be done so that "M Y W I K I B I Z" appears in the stitching?

[EricBarbour]

Again; I feel, in one way very badly criticizing Durova on this, as she is one of the few who has done long-term work in the textile/embroidery area. Beggars cannot be choosers, and all that. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/mellow.gif)

I don't feel badly about criticizing Durova. She (usually) deserves it.

Wikipedia: The Beggar's Encyclopedia!

[The Adversary]

Can't some of this smocking be done so that "M Y W I K I B I Z" appears in the stitching?

Heh; do like me: I order all my embroidery on ebay these days.

So much easier than relying on Durovas pictures! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/happy.gif)

[tarantino]

Besides, the world has spandex and lycra now

Er - no. It has elastane. This is also known as spandex especially in the USA but according to the BBC spandex is actually a brand name. Lycra is the brand name for spandex used by Du Pont.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A676262

http://www.madehow.com/Volume-4/Spandex.html

See also Spandex fetishism.


(IMG:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ef/Four_women_dancing_in_zentai.jpg/400px-Four_women_dancing_in_zentai.jpg)

[Jon Awbrey]

(IMG:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ef/Four_women_dancing_in_zentai.jpg/400px-Four_women_dancing_in_zentai.jpg)
Spandex Ballet

[RDH(Ghost In The Machine)]

Spandex Ballet

[Jon Awbrey]

Spandex Ballet

Gawd Wins Again …

Jon (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

[RDH(Ghost In The Machine)]

Gawd Wins Again …

Jon (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

Teehee
(IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)



This post has been edited by RDH(Ghost In The Machine):

[Enric_Naval]

Can't some of this smocking be done so that "M Y W I K I B I Z" appears in the stitching?

You could pay someone to make it and upload it to wikipedia. Oh wait....

[Trick cyclist]

See also Spandex fetishism.

What a stupid article. It doesnt mention elastane.

[Eva Destruction]

See also Spandex fetishism.

What a stupid article. It doesnt mention elastane.

Yes, that's the main problem with it.

[Jon Awbrey]

See also Spandex fetishism.

What a stupid article. It doesnt mention elastane.

See Elastane To Clarksville

Jon (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

[Milton Roe]

(IMG:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ef/Four_women_dancing_in_zentai.jpg/400px-Four_women_dancing_in_zentai.jpg)
Spandex Ballet

Very nice. Spandau Ballet can be applied to somebody assisting Rudolf Hess to a temps levé sauté that lasted many minutes. That's major hang time.

[Alison]

See also Spandex fetishism.

What a stupid article. It doesnt mention elastane.

Why don't you just bop on over there and fix it? You do have an account still ... right?

[Milton Roe]

See also Spandex fetishism.

What a stupid article. It doesnt mention elastane.

Why don't you just bop on over there and fix it? You do have an account still ... right?

Alas, no. If only it was on Wikiquote.... (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wink.gif)

[tarantino]

See also Spandex fetishism.

What a stupid article. It doesnt mention elastane.

Why don't you just bop on over there and fix it? You do have an account still ... right?

The revision history of Spandex fetishism on wipipedia featuring Ropeuser and Vicky.

Eric starts the Whale tail WR thread on Feb 12.

Ropeuser starts the wipipedia Whale tail article on Feb 13.

[Alison]

The revision history of Spandex fetishism on wipipedia featuring Ropeuser and Vicky.

That name 'Vicky' sounds awfully familiar. Where could I have heard of it before ..... (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/rolleyes.gif)

[tarantino]

That name 'Vicky' sounds awfully familiar. Where could I have heard of it before ..... (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/rolleyes.gif)

http://www.londonfetishscene.com/wipi/inde...&year=&month=-1
10:42, 18 September 2008 Balzac (Talk | contribs) has renamed User:Taxwoman to "Vicky" ‎ (1,661 edits. Reason: request of user)

[Wiki Witch of the West]

Wow, it's amazing that this thread went on for several days and started over a brief mention at my user page.

The reason for avoiding Flickr for this topic is quite simple: original creative designs in the craft arts are copyrightable. Many people don't know that; also many people don't understand what a derivative work is.

The safest way to avoid copyright infringements in crafted items is to upload one's own original designs.

[Somey]

The safest way to avoid copyright infringements in crafted items is to upload one's own original designs.

You're basically just laughing at the rest of us at this point, aren't you? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/hmmm.gif)

Personally, I think it's a lovely design. In fact, I'm thinking of having my entire house redone around that basic motif, and possibly the landscaping too...! It would be a lot more practical than my current place, I'll tell ya that.

[GlassBeadGame]

It won't have evolved completely in the Free Kulture cycle until the stitches are arranged into a penis pattern.

[Wiki Witch of the West]

The safest way to avoid copyright infringements in crafted items is to upload one's own original designs.

You're basically just laughing at the rest of us at this point, aren't you? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/hmmm.gif)

Personally, I think it's a lovely design. In fact, I'm thinking of having my entire house redone around that basic motif, and possibly the landscaping too...! It would be a lot more practical than my current place, I'll tell ya that.

Actually that's a straightforward explanation, Somey. If you rummage around the old archives of my blog you'll see that the reason behind it has something to do with the mom-and-pop nature of the craft art business. Imports have risen to the North American market, a substantial portion of which are knockoffs of craft designs. A couple of years ago I wrote a GA about Navajo rugs, part of which mentioned that factor. It simply isn't possible to live in North America on the kind of wages that prevail in Thailand or China.

So when Wikimedians upload their own original designs, it's less about the quality of the material than about respecting intellectual property rights.

With regard to the smocking example that started this thread, it was useful in the article to show examples of the major stitches.

[Kwork]

Wow, it's amazing that this thread went on for several days and started over a brief mention at my user page.

The reason for avoiding Flickr for this topic is quite simple: original creative designs in the craft arts are copyrightable. Many people don't know that; also many people don't understand what a derivative work is.

The safest way to avoid copyright infringements in crafted items is to upload one's own original designs.

My understanding is that the copyright applies to reproductions of art work, or the craft items. For instance, if a person buys a sculpture they own the sculpture but not have a right to sell copies of the sculpture. That remains the right of the artist.

The main complication is always Wikimedia Commons requirement that images not only have a commons license, but that the license allow commercial reproduction. I wish that was not a Commons requirement for images, and do not understand why it is.

[Trick cyclist]

It would be a lot more practical than my current place, I'll tell ya that.

"—And He Built a Crooked House—" (T-H-L-K-D)

(IMG:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/15/Tesseract_net_Crooked_House.svg/200px-Tesseract_net_Crooked_House.svg.png)

[Wiki Witch of the West]

Wow, it's amazing that this thread went on for several days and started over a brief mention at my user page.

The reason for avoiding Flickr for this topic is quite simple: original creative designs in the craft arts are copyrightable. Many people don't know that; also many people don't understand what a derivative work is.

The safest way to avoid copyright infringements in crafted items is to upload one's own original designs.

My understanding is that the copyright applies to reproductions of art work, or the craft items. For instance, if a person buys a sculpture they own the sculpture but not have a right to sell copies of the sculpture. That remains the right of the artist.

The main complication is always Wikimedia Commons requirement that images not only have a commons license, but that the license allow commercial reproduction. I wish that was not a Commons requirement for images, and do not understand why it is.

It has to do with the type of license structure WMF sites operate under. Wikipedia allows commercial reproductions of its articles so media has to be basically compatible with that.

In the unlikely event that Somey wants to rececorate along the themes of my craft designs he's welcome to. He could even open a redecoration business themed after my little goodies. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wink.gif)

[thekohser]

In the unlikely event that Somey wants to rececorate along the themes of my craft designs he's welcome to. He could even open a redecoration business themed after my little goodies. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wink.gif)

I will shop there if Somey names the place "Smockpuppets".

[EricBarbour]

That name 'Vicky' sounds awfully familiar. Where could I have heard of it before ..... (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/rolleyes.gif)

http://www.londonfetishscene.com/wipi/inde...&year=&month=-1
10:42, 18 September 2008 Balzac (Talk | contribs) has renamed User:Taxwoman to "Vicky" ‎ (1,661 edits. Reason: request of user)

(IMG:http://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq142/firepixie26/busted.jpg)
Give it up, MB. You're done. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)

[Lar]

The main complication is always Wikimedia Commons requirement that images not only have a commons license, but that the license allow commercial reproduction. I wish that was not a Commons requirement for images, and do not understand why it is.

Downstream usage. Some WP mirrors are commercial. Whether that's a good reason or not, that's why.

[Wiki Witch of the West]

The main complication is always Wikimedia Commons requirement that images not only have a commons license, but that the license allow commercial reproduction. I wish that was not a Commons requirement for images, and do not understand why it is.

Downstream usage. Some WP mirrors are commercial. Whether that's a good reason or not, that's why.

Lar states it well.

And lol Greg. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

Actually Commons has a few categories entirely populated with my crafts.

[Alison]

That name 'Vicky' sounds awfully familiar. Where could I have heard of it before ..... (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/rolleyes.gif)

http://www.londonfetishscene.com/wipi/inde...&year=&month=-1
10:42, 18 September 2008 Balzac (Talk | contribs) has renamed User:Taxwoman to "Vicky" ‎ (1,661 edits. Reason: request of user)

(IMG:http://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq142/firepixie26/busted.jpg)
Give it up, MB. You're done. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)

(IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)

Obvious sock is obvious

[The Adversary]

With regard to the smocking example that started this thread, it was useful in the article to show examples of the major stitches.

hmmm, not really.

That name 'Vicky' sounds awfully familiar. Where could I have heard of it before ..... (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/rolleyes.gif)

http://www.londonfetishscene.com/wipi/inde...&year=&month=-1
10:42, 18 September 2008 Balzac (Talk | contribs) has renamed User:Taxwoman to "Vicky" ‎ (1,661 edits. Reason: request of user)

(IMG:http://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq142/firepixie26/busted.jpg)
Give it up, Baxter. You're done. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)

(IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)

Obvious sock is obvious

His fakeness was established back in Desember, with this post. (Hint: the Danish is completely wrong. No Dane would write: "Jeg er godt".... But use an automatic translator on "I am fine"..and you wil get it)

(Eric: nice lolcat (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif) )

[Trick cyclist]

(Hint: the Danish is completely wrong. No Dane would write: "Jeg er godt".... But use an automatic translator on "I am fine"..and you wil get it)

This is from someone who can't spell "will" but claims to speak English.

[The Adversary]

(Hint: the Danish is completely wrong. No Dane would write: "Jeg er godt".... But use an automatic translator on "I am fine"..and you wil get it)

This is from someone who can't spell "will" but claims to speak English.

Silly man. I only claim to speak broken English perfectly.... but you claimed to be Danish...

[Trick cyclist]

Silly man. I only claim to speak broken English perfectly.... but you claimed to be Danish...

Yes I am proud to speak Danish correctly. Evidently you have found a translator that follows the correct rules of Danish grammar not the sort of vulgar patois that Danes of your acquaintance evidently speak.

I am now putting you on ignore. Good night.

[Alison]

Silly man. I only claim to speak broken English perfectly.... but you claimed to be Danish...

Yes I am proud to speak Danish correctly. Evidently you have found a translator that follows the correct rules of Danish grammar not the sort of vulgar patois that Danes of your acquaintance evidently speak.

I am now putting you on ignore. Good night.

... and it's time to find a new sock on WP, 'Giselle' (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/angry.gif)

[Trick cyclist]

I am now putting you on ignore. Good night.

... and it's time to find a new sock on WP, 'Giselle' (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/angry.gif)

You too. And you're someone who really ought to know better. I won't deign to ask who 'Giselle' is.

This post has been edited by Trick cyclist:

[The Adversary]

ooopsh Ole.Holm (T-C-L-K-R-D) seem to have been nuked (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

He better ask to be unblocked in nice, unvulgar Danish! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)

[Herschelkrustofsky]

I am now putting you on ignore. Good night.

... and it's time to find a new sock on WP, 'Giselle' (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/angry.gif)

You too. And you're someone who really ought to know better. I won't deign to ask who 'Giselle' is.

Here, Mike, let me refresh your memory. As you wrote to me a few years back using your "Vicky" AKA Taxwoman persona:

Three years ago, I only knew Giselle as some little twerp who ran
round after Rachel Brown because their fathers were old friends. My
opinion of her changed dramatically when Rachel got into her
now-notorious spat with SlimVirgin. Rachel got incredibly stressed
out. Giselle rushed to help her; I and others followed. SlimVirgin
got us all (except Rachel) banned. Rachel, though not banned, stopped
editing even before the ban because the stress was too much. I'm
pleased to say that Rachel made a rapid recovery, but we never mention
Wikipedia to her! Giselle was an incredible tower of strength, and
I'd never have pulled Rachel through so quickly without her. For that
alone, she gets my everlasting gratitude.

[Milton Roe]

I am now putting you on ignore. Good night.

... and it's time to find a new sock on WP, 'Giselle' (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/angry.gif)

You too. And you're someone who really ought to know better. I won't deign to ask who 'Giselle' is.

Here, Mike, let me refresh your memory. As you wrote to me a few years back using your "Vicky" AKA Taxwoman persona:

Three years ago, I only knew Giselle as some little twerp who ran
round after Rachel Brown because their fathers were old friends. My
opinion of her changed dramatically when Rachel got into her
now-notorious spat with SlimVirgin. Rachel got incredibly stressed
out. Giselle rushed to help her; I and others followed. SlimVirgin
got us all (except Rachel) banned. Rachel, though not banned, stopped
editing even before the ban because the stress was too much. I'm
pleased to say that Rachel made a rapid recovery, but we never mention
Wikipedia to her! Giselle was an incredible tower of strength, and
I'd never have pulled Rachel through so quickly without her. For that
alone, she gets my everlasting gratitude.

The memory of computer data-retieval systems is so much better than our own, as to be shocking. We all walk around in a fog of half forgotten acts and facts, and now, suddenly, we find that the internet knows our past better than we know it ourselves.

It's unnnatural. Humans didn't evolve to live in such circumstances. No wonder its forever disorienting.

It's especially hard on that subspecies of human known as the bullshit artist, grifter, or ever-moving conman. Those guys even have themselves convinced, or they wouldn't be such great liars. But the computer follows them. Perhaps for the first time in human history we see the natural history of such types.

And it's not pretty! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/fear.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/hrmph.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unhappy.gif)

[thekohser]

I am now putting you on ignore. Good night.

... and it's time to find a new sock on WP, 'Giselle' (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/angry.gif)

You too. And you're someone who really ought to know better. I won't deign to ask who 'Giselle' is.

I love it when you can watch the sock unravel before your eyes.

[Somey]

I love it when you can watch the sock unravel before your eyes.

Well, I feel really bad now, since it was apparently my own mention of "spandex and lycra" that initiated this whole series of posts, and now he's going to have to start a whole new account! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unhappy.gif)

Still, I thought he nearly had it this time - true, I'd figured it out after about 8 posts and I even told a bunch of folks, but a lot of them didn't believe me at first - because he'd been so well-behaved and clever about avoiding the usual pitfalls. Even when I insisted, everybody seemed willing to go along with letting him continue with it, as a kind of observational experiment... Only to have the whole thing ruined by me, of all people. (I'd better just steer clear of all-natural fibers of all kinds, from now on.)

Maybe I can blame Durova, though? Heck, she'd probably appreciate the additional notch-in-the-fuselage.

[EricBarbour]

I love it when you can watch the sock unravel before your eyes.

Well, I feel really bad now, since it was apparently my own mention of "spandex and lycra" that initiated this whole series of posts, and now he's going to have to start a whole new account! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unhappy.gif)

Boo hoo. Why do you keep him around anyway? He isn't very funny.....

Maybe I can blame Durova, though? Heck, she'd probably appreciate the additional notch-in-the-fuselage.

Always, always blame her. She's good for it. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

This post has been edited by EricBarbour:

[Herschelkrustofsky]

I love it when you can watch the sock unravel before your eyes.

Well, I feel really bad now, since it was apparently my own mention of "spandex and lycra" that initiated this whole series of posts, and now he's going to have to start a whole new account! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unhappy.gif)

I'm sure he has a few sleepers in reserve. And Milton had already pretty much let the cat out of the bag over at the "Handel" thread.

[CharlotteWebb]

Still, I thought he nearly had it this time - true, I'd figured it out after about 8 posts and I even told a bunch of folks, but a lot of them didn't believe me at first - because he'd been so well-behaved and clever about avoiding the usual pitfalls.

Cough, cough, Mandy.

[Mike H]

Now I don't have a faux-Danish speaker to speak Danish with. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unhappy.gif) Meget trist.

[Milton Roe]

I love it when you can watch the sock unravel before your eyes.

Well, I feel really bad now, since it was apparently my own mention of "spandex and lycra" that initiated this whole series of posts, and now he's going to have to start a whole new account! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unhappy.gif)

I'm sure he has a few sleepers in reserve. And Milton had already pretty much let the cat out of the bag over at the "Handel" thread.

Well the new thing was getting an actual live astronomer friend. Can't fake being an astronomer in real-time. But you can if NOT in real-time. Too bad he didn't have an actual live Danish friend. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

Note to self, MB.

There's a wonderful Vinge story called True Names. It's pretty much about the VR cyberworld we're familiar with online now, except it was written in 1981 (almost 30 years ago!), long before anything but Compu$erve. And before cyberpunk and Neuromancer and all the rest. The main character is "Mr. Slippery" who is hiding his RL identity for reason that will be familiar to all of us. The new guy who shows up is "The Mailbox" who never interacts in real-time. He turns out to be an AI, except he doesn't think FAST enough to simulate humans in real-time-- only after a lot of processing time. So you just get short cryptic messages from him. Except he obviously has access to vast data-reserves.

That happens also with people simulating other personalities on the web, particularly with skills they don't have, like another language or another area of expertise. MB has always been attracted, nay, fascinated and addicted to, role playing submerging in other identities. He's not just into other personnalities, but their visual avatars which are not obviously avatars. This is a guy who regularly paid a transvestite makeup artist to "do" him, and he's not gay or transexual, nor perhaps even much of a transvestite! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/mellow.gif) What he WAS interested in, were other people living double-lives.

So he's going to be endlessly doing this, and as he gets good at it, the only thing the rest of us who don't have access to his UK IP feed will have, is certain personality quirks he can't hide, plus a rather unusual delay and rather unusually short answers. Like "The Mailbox."

(IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/fear.gif)

[Zoloft]

These references are a bit shorthand... can anyone point me to a definitive thread or post on this guy?

I am new enough not to know who you're talkin about.

[Milton Roe]

These references are a bit shorthand... can anyone point me to a definitive thread or post on this guy?

I am new enough not to know who you're talkin about.

Most of the good stuff is marinating in a classic thread in the tarpit of La Brea. Mastidons and smilodons and dire wolves down there, mostly.

http://wikipediareview.com/index.php?showtopic=20205

[The Adversary]

Now I don't have a faux-Danish speaker to speak Danish with. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unhappy.gif) Meget trist.

Du kan alltid snakke med meg! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/happy.gif)

So he's going to be endlessly doing this, and as he gets good at it, the only thing the rest of us who don't have access to his UK IP feed will have, is certain personality quirks he can't hide, plus a rather unusual delay and rather unusually short answers. Like "The Mailbox."

(IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/fear.gif)

For most of us here who are not native English speakers; I can say that getting to know/ imitating another nationality/language is far more difficult than you think. It is not only about correct language/grammar, but more about attitudes, expressions.

Example: Tricky Cyclists sentence above here: "Yes I am proud to speak Danish correctly."...is a dead give-away. No native Dane would write/say a thing like that! (Hint: the wrong word is "proud")

[Milton Roe]

Now I don't have a faux-Danish speaker to speak Danish with. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unhappy.gif) Meget trist.

Du kan alltid snakke med meg! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/happy.gif)

So he's going to be endlessly doing this, and as he gets good at it, the only thing the rest of us who don't have access to his UK IP feed will have, is certain personality quirks he can't hide, plus a rather unusual delay and rather unusually short answers. Like "The Mailbox."

(IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/fear.gif)

For most of us here who are not native English speakers; I can say that getting to know/ imitating another nationality/language is far more difficult than you think. It is not only about correct language/grammar, but more about attitudes, expressions.

Example: Tricky Cyclists sentence above here: "Yes I am proud to speak Danish correctly."...is a dead give-away. No native Dane would write/say a thing like that! (Hint: the wrong word is "proud")

Oh, I've no doubt of the truth of what you say. You can (sometimes) use a computer to fake expertise in some field, but you can't use a computer to fake natural language skills with somebody whose native language it is, because natural language translation requires actual sapience, cultural immersion, and a huge non-indexable background that takes years to acquire. Computers can't do it.

That's DOESN'T mean that somebody intent on faking this, and given time, can't do it by simply sponging off a buddy who IS a native speaker. If only a few bits are required, he might even post on a language-learning BBS somewhere, with a translation question, then return with the answer. The same is true of technical questions in a given field which require inference, and can't simply be looked up. But if you KNOW a real astronomer, and aren't under time pressure, you can fake being an astronomer yourself as well as you need to, by simply putting the questions to the real expert. Since, of course, it's not really a "fake" at some level-- when you turn those questions over to somebody else who really IS what you're pretending to be, then you get an answer which does what it's supposed to do.

[Mike H]

Now I don't have a faux-Danish speaker to speak Danish with. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unhappy.gif) Meget trist.

Du kan alltid snakke med meg! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/happy.gif)

Du er en nordmand? Hvor bor du?