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> Paid editing, opinions on paid editing
ebc123
post Fri 10th December 2010, 3:05am
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Thanks everyone for the information!

I've done some research on VPNs but how it works exactly is eluding me. Sorry to be dumb but how does it work?
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melloden
post Fri 10th December 2010, 3:55am
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QUOTE(ebc123 @ Fri 10th December 2010, 3:05am) *

Thanks everyone for the information!

I've done some research on VPNs but how it works exactly is eluding me. Sorry to be dumb but how does it work?


If you are running Window$, see this help page. But I wouldn't bother with that; you're off to a longer block if they find out you're using more than one account undisclosed, which you're essentially admitting here. Figuring out your username and whatnot won't be overly difficult, I presume.

I, for one, am against paid editing, but I'm just wandering in the forest of writing for fun, a forest that is rapidly burning.
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thekohser
post Fri 10th December 2010, 4:59am
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QUOTE(ebc123 @ Thu 9th December 2010, 2:19pm) *

Thanks SB Johnny for the reply and the welcome!

You know, I was the first to welcome you, and I was the first to point you to some helpful information.

You're welcome.
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wikieyeay
post Fri 10th December 2010, 1:38pm
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QUOTE(melloden @ Fri 10th December 2010, 3:55am) *

QUOTE(ebc123 @ Fri 10th December 2010, 3:05am) *

Thanks everyone for the information!

I've done some research on VPNs but how it works exactly is eluding me. Sorry to be dumb but how does it work?


If you are running Window$, see this help page. But I wouldn't bother with that; you're off to a longer block if they find out you're using more than one account undisclosed, which you're essentially admitting here. Figuring out your username and whatnot won't be overly difficult, I presume.


The WP RPG rulez state you can have multiple undisclosed accounts. If you want one for fighting Scientology and another for writing about nuclear physics that's ok. They only get upset when you're using multiple accounts to fight the same battle.

As for the VPN question, your internet traffic is routed via another computer (server) so that it appears that you are connected from there. So for instance if you normally edit from a Florida-based cable internet company, you can use a VPN IP based in London, England, to throw people off the scent. When you disconnect from one VPN and connect to another your IP changes. Obviously you would need to logout of Wikipedia if you are using the same browser - the cleanest approach is going to be separate virtual machines for this, but even using multiple browsers (say Firefox, Internet Explorer and Chrome) will help with this.

I would point out that unless they suspect something, they are not going to bother to check for multiple accounts. Paid editing is actually normally uncontroversial - things like 'Utah's number one print company' is treated as spam and an annoyance to be deleted, whereas if you get involved with controversial issues (Israel, animal rights, etc.), you're far more likely to get busted. So it's probably an unnecessary step, but that depends on how much money, etc., you have at stake.
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ebc123
post Fri 10th December 2010, 4:31pm
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My apologies “thekoser.” Thanks for the welcome. Your ebook looks interesting. I think it’s pricey for an ebook, especially since it doesn’t say anywhere how substantial it is (pages/words/etc.) But it looks interesting.

Thanks very much for all the info so far. It’s good to hear both sides and any details from experienced users.

If I could bother folks further (as answers often lead to more questions) I’m wondering:

As far as “wikieyeay’s” quote: “I would point out that unless they suspect something, they are not going to bother to check for multiple accounts.”

1. What (if anything) might cause them to suspect something as a Conflict of Interest if it doesn’t contain promo language or controversial subjects?

2. If they decide one account is in voilation, can they discover your other accounts through IP address, sockpuppets (whatever they are), or something else?

As far as “Multiple accounts are probably an unnecessary step, but that depends on how much money, etc., you have at stake.

I’d like to generate a fair amount of income so of course money/reputation would be a factor. Here is where question 2 above comes into play. It’s one thing to have a problem with one article and another thing to have a problem with 5, 10 or more.

I suppose saying “Paid editing is actually normally uncontroversial...” says a lot. As I mentioned in my first post, I fully intend on complying with Wikipedia’s policies and guidelines. For one thing I hate that hack public relations style writing. I won’t do it and my potential clients will know it up front.

I guess my greatest concern is one of those Dungeons and Dragons type zealots might eventually decide to pull some IRS/Spanish Inquisition investigation out of sheer boredom and the wheels come off. I don’t know how and if this happens. That’s why I’m posting here. I definitely find none of these answers on any other posts. Thanks again for any help!
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thekohser
post Fri 10th December 2010, 8:50pm
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QUOTE(ebc123 @ Fri 10th December 2010, 11:31am) *

My apologies “thekoser.” Thanks for the welcome. Your ebook looks interesting. I think it’s pricey for an ebook, especially since it doesn’t say anywhere how substantial it is (pages/words/etc.) But it looks interesting.

Everything I do is substantial. evilgrin.gif

QUOTE(ebc123 @ Fri 10th December 2010, 11:31am) *

1. What (if anything) might cause them to suspect something as a Conflict of Interest if it doesn’t contain promo language or controversial subjects?

Well-written content about a commercial subject.

QUOTE(ebc123 @ Fri 10th December 2010, 11:31am) *

2. If they decide one account is in voilation, can they discover your other accounts through IP address, sockpuppets (whatever they are), or something else?

They'll use everything at their disposal. They'll checkuser the account in question, finding out every IP that it's used in the past 90 days. Then they'll back-trace all of the IPs found, to see if any other accounts have used them. Any that rise to even the faintest level of suspicion will also then be checkusered to discover more IPs. And so on. Yet, the Wikipediots will tell you that their site is one of the safest you can visit, because they don't "track" you with cookies or any personally-identifying information. confused.gif

QUOTE(ebc123 @ Fri 10th December 2010, 11:31am) *
As far as “Multiple accounts are probably an unnecessary step, but that depends on how much money, etc., you have at stake.

I’d like to generate a fair amount of income so of course money/reputation would be a factor. Here is where question 2 above comes into play. It’s one thing to have a problem with one article and another thing to have a problem with 5, 10 or more.

My rule of thumb is to never conduct paid editing with one user account for any more than two different clients, and to use different IP addresses for each user account. In other words, you should have a notebook that tracks something like this:
  1. User:Applesaucey One - working on Client A - use from coffee shop IP - Firefox
  2. User:Bananamashey Two - working on Client B - use from Aunt Sally's IP - MSIE
  3. User:Cherrypitter Three - working on Client C - use from Burger King IP - Chrome

If you live in a really rural area with few IP addresses to use and borrow, your efforts (if compromised) could all come tumbling down. You have to be really careful with this stuff, otherwise you can lose important User accounts. (Don't ask me about User:Cool3, okay?)


QUOTE(ebc123 @ Fri 10th December 2010, 11:31am) *
As I mentioned in my first post, I fully intend on complying with Wikipedia’s policies and guidelines. For one thing I hate that hack public relations style writing. I won’t do it and my potential clients will know it up front.

If you want to run a business with one hand tied behind your back, that's stupid; but you're entitled to try.

QUOTE(ebc123 @ Fri 10th December 2010, 11:31am) *
I guess my greatest concern is one of those Dungeons and Dragons type zealots might eventually decide to pull some IRS/Spanish Inquisition investigation out of sheer boredom and the wheels come off. I don’t know how and if this happens. That’s why I’m posting here. I definitely find none of these answers on any other posts. Thanks again for any help!

"Wheels coming off" is Wikipedia's middle name, kid.

Now, a question for you... How old are you, and what is the highest level of occupation you have ever ascended to?
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melloden
post Sat 11th December 2010, 2:17am
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QUOTE(thekohser @ Fri 10th December 2010, 8:50pm) *

Now, a question for you... How old are you, and what is the highest level of occupation you have ever ascended to?


Hahahaha. If you're a kid looking for some extra cash, don't bother. If you're an adult interested in using Wikipedia commercially, you might want to make it less obvious first by emailing Greg and continuing your plans privately because you sure seem to know nothing about Wikipedia's internal operations at all and I'm just waiting for the noob mistakes to happen.
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wikieyeay
post Sat 11th December 2010, 1:24pm
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QUOTE(melloden @ Sat 11th December 2010, 2:17am) *

QUOTE(thekohser @ Fri 10th December 2010, 8:50pm) *

Now, a question for you... How old are you, and what is the highest level of occupation you have ever ascended to?


Hahahaha. If you're a kid looking for some extra cash, don't bother. If you're an adult interested in using Wikipedia commercially, you might want to make it less obvious first by emailing Greg and continuing your plans privately because you sure seem to know nothing about Wikipedia's internal operations at all and I'm just waiting for the noob mistakes to happen.


It's unlikely you'd notice. Even the most obsessive of wikifreaks can't keep track of all the new articles added to the Wikipediafiles each day. Add article, maybe somebody tags it for speedy deletion, dispute, then maybe you get an AfD, fight that, then setup a new account and follow the same procedure for another article. New accounts creaing new articles are nothing usual in wikiland.

And personally, if he is a kid looking for extra cash, well that seems better to me than if he's an adult. Wikipaedia just loves kids, and acting like one is just part of the game. If it goes wrong, that's no sweat, he was only doing it for pocket money.

Much better to do it that way than to assume Wikipedia is a venue for professionalism.

This post has been edited by wikieyeay: Sat 11th December 2010, 1:27pm
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melloden
post Sat 11th December 2010, 10:26pm
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QUOTE(wikieyeay @ Sat 11th December 2010, 1:24pm) *

And personally, if he is a kid looking for extra cash, well that seems better to me than if he's an adult. Wikipaedia just loves kids, and acting like one is just part of the game. If it goes wrong, that's no sweat, he was only doing it for pocket money.

Much better to do it that way than to assume Wikipedia is a venue for professionalism.


From my brief experience with children on the site, most users hate kids. Except the really smart kind that don't act like kids. People are more likely to fall for the act and offer to help with a paid editing venture they don't know about if the writer acts like a polite adult and not a myspacer.
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SB_Johnny
post Sat 11th December 2010, 11:06pm
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QUOTE(melloden @ Sat 11th December 2010, 5:26pm) *

From my brief experience with children on the site, most users hate kids. Except the really smart kind that don't act like kids.

Well, the "opinion leaders" tend to be people who behave like children, so it's perhaps understandable (if you can wear the right shade glasses and screw your eyes real hard) that they would resent actual children playing a part in the game. I suppose they're just "grooming" the next generation of assholes. blink.gif
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GlassBeadGame
post Sat 11th December 2010, 11:12pm
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QUOTE(melloden @ Sat 11th December 2010, 5:26pm) *

QUOTE(wikieyeay @ Sat 11th December 2010, 1:24pm) *

And personally, if he is a kid looking for extra cash, well that seems better to me than if he's an adult. Wikipaedia just loves kids, and acting like one is just part of the game. If it goes wrong, that's no sweat, he was only doing it for pocket money.

Much better to do it that way than to assume Wikipedia is a venue for professionalism.


From my brief experience with children on the site, most users hate kids. Except the really smart kind that don't act like kids. People are more likely to fall for the act and offer to help with a paid editing venture they don't know about if the writer acts like a polite adult and not a myspacer.



Being intelligent, especially as it manifests itself on Wikipedia, is unlikely to fool anyone if you are a child posing as an adult. In fact many aspects of personality are harder to mask then you might think.
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thekohser
post Tue 14th December 2010, 4:36pm
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I wonder if the Wikipediot community has noticed this webinar yet?
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thekohser
post Fri 17th December 2010, 6:42pm
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QUOTE(thekohser @ Tue 14th December 2010, 11:36am) *

I wonder if the Wikipediot community has noticed this webinar yet?


One of the more worthless webinars that I've ever received.
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thekohser
post Fri 17th December 2010, 6:53pm
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Wait! They reveal some previous client "success stories".

Face2face

Michael H. Evans

Pablo Gimenez-Riili

Let's see what happens. C'mon, David Gerard, where are you?

This post has been edited by thekohser: Fri 17th December 2010, 6:56pm
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thekohser
post Fri 17th December 2010, 9:21pm
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QUOTE(thekohser @ Fri 17th December 2010, 1:53pm) *

Wait! They reveal some previous client "success stories".

Face2face

Michael H. Evans

Pablo Gimenez-Riili

Let's see what happens. C'mon, David Gerard, where are you?


Let me reiterate. These are known, admitted, and flaunted PAID EDITING articles.

Is everybody okay with that?

Where is Enric Naval? Where is David Gerard? Where is Calton? Where is Guy Chapman?

Is paid editing so tolerated now that I can do a webinar on how to do it and give away my clients?
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Milton Roe
post Fri 17th December 2010, 9:49pm
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QUOTE(thekohser @ Fri 17th December 2010, 2:21pm) *

QUOTE(thekohser @ Fri 17th December 2010, 1:53pm) *

Wait! They reveal some previous client "success stories".

Face2face

Michael H. Evans

Pablo Gimenez-Riili

Let's see what happens. C'mon, David Gerard, where are you?


Let me reiterate. These are known, admitted, and flaunted PAID EDITING articles.

Is everybody okay with that?

Where is Enric Naval? Where is David Gerard? Where is Calton? Where is Guy Chapman?

Is paid editing so tolerated now that I can do a webinar on how to do it and give away my clients?


All created by Niewenhuis (T-C-L-K-R-D) = Sharon Niewenhuis (as she reveals on her TALK page, no secret). These articles along with such notable Wikis as Vines of Mendoza, created by the bio'd people above.

Her TALK page makes interesting reading. Many of these articles were first rejected, and some still are tagged as "reading like advertisments" smile.gif The very idea! How rude.

If the Webinar counts as a "reliable source" you should use it to add info to the BLP of Mr. Evans, that he paid a person to write up and upload Wikis on himself and his business. Why not? It's true and is public knowledge, is it not? And as notable as most of the rest of this stuff.
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tarantino
post Tue 28th December 2010, 2:36am
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SqueakBox is mentioned yet again at AN/I for paid editing, and despite credible allegations of him lying about it, his account remains free to edit.
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thekohser
post Tue 28th December 2010, 3:42am
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SqueakBox is noted as one of the top "wipers" of Jimbo's talk page.

Thus, I am sure the True Believers are having a tough time with handing out justice on this one. One of their very own Jimbo Juice Drinkers is getting paid for content development on Wikipedia, then lying about it.

I don't know what they're so upset about -- Jimbo does the same damn thing.
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Kelly Martin
post Tue 28th December 2010, 2:59pm
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The secret to doing paid editing on Wikipedia is to first ingratiate yourself with the Cabal. Only once you have done that should you initiate your paid editing activities. Because you are a "trusted Wikipedian" at that point, everyone will gladly accept your assertions that, of course, there is no conflict of interest. Your social connections within the Cabal will protect you from the generalized assumption of bad faith that all other editors are normally subjected to. Many editors, in fact, will treat your income stream as the just rewards for being a loyal Wikipedian and will actively defend you against those who suggest that it's inappropriate for you to be editing for pay.

Of course, the wheels will come off if and when you edit an article of interest to a significant power bloc. Cabal protection only covers you if you only edit articles that are of no interest to the Cabal. Tread carefully, as the articles and topics that are subject to Special Cabal Protection change frequently and without much notice. You'll have to spend a lot of time in minute political maneuvers to keep up with this and to maintain your CabalCred; it's likely that this'll make it hard for your business to be particularly profitable as a result.
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Infomercial
post Tue 28th December 2010, 8:55pm
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QUOTE(Kelly Martin @ Tue 28th December 2010, 9:59am) *

The secret to doing paid editing on Wikipedia is to first ingratiate yourself with the Cabal. Only once you have done that should you initiate your paid editing activities. Because you are a "trusted Wikipedian" at that point, everyone will gladly accept your assertions that, of course, there is no conflict of interest. Your social connections within the Cabal will protect you from the generalized assumption of bad faith that all other editors are normally subjected to. Many editors, in fact, will treat your income stream as the just rewards for being a loyal Wikipedian and will actively defend you against those who suggest that it's inappropriate for you to be editing for pay.

Of course, the wheels will come off if and when you edit an article of interest to a significant power bloc. Cabal protection only covers you if you only edit articles that are of no interest to the Cabal. Tread carefully, as the articles and topics that are subject to Special Cabal Protection change frequently and without much notice. You'll have to spend a lot of time in minute political maneuvers to keep up with this and to maintain your CabalCred; it's likely that this'll make it hard for your business to be particularly profitable as a result.

QUOTE(The Cabal)
We can neither confirm nor deny the existence of a cabal.


I really don't like the idea of paid editing. Users like me contribute heavily to WP with no compensation while these con men get paid to do the exact same thing. There are a variety of procedures if you want an article about yourself or your businesses, and if you're just patient, it'll be good in due time (as long as the notability requirement is met, of course (otherwise, you can suck it (or go to Wikipedia Review (we won't complain either way)))). Keep your dirty green presidents away from our site!

That's all I wanted to say. oldtimer.gif
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