Slim's Sooper-Sekrit Mailing List Exposed!, (Durova fallout) Options

Ryulong enquired, in another post here, why it was that every thread eventually turned into a SlimVirgin thread. It appears that if this is the case, it is because she has her fingers in every dark and greasy corner of Wikipedia.

As it turns out, she initiated and maintains the (putative) CyberStalking Mailing List on which Durova circulated her spurious "evidence" against User:!!

Slimey has wisely maintained a studious silence on the subject. I was abou to add that she has not used her admin tools significantly since her return from self-imposed exile, but she proved me wrong just a few minutes ago, blocking indefinitely an apparent vandal who had just come off a block, and had made no edits since then. Picking up Durova's fallen torch?

As it turns out, she initiated and maintains the (putative) CyberStalking Mailing List on which Durova circulated her spurious "evidence" against User:!!

KEWWL!

Hey, do you think they'd let me subscribe? I'm goin' over there now to give it a shot! After all, I was the guy who redacted all their names from here, or at least tried... so unlike them, at least I've actually done something about their spurious concerns, right?

And she joins the rest of the Jimbo back slappers (including our previous visitor Mr Aranda aka "This is a Secret" and Mr Squeakbox) in pulling their wagon's around Jossi's comment of basically saying "nothing to see here, move on move on"...

Newsflash : There are TWO mailing lists :

Two mailing lists

BTW, we've got two private mailing lists here - one relating specifically to investigations, and one relating to cyberstalking, both hosted by Wikia (AFAIK). Both are probably largely filled with the same people. To which one did Durova's email go? Investigations, surely? Then again, perhaps not. Enlighten? Moreschi If you've written a quality article... 21:52, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Here, JzG confirms that Jimbo is a member of these groups...

What was that they were saying about the Cabal not existing??

This post has been edited by the fieryangel: Mon 26th November 2007, 11:16am

Newsflash : There are TWO mailing lists :

Two mailing lists

BTW, we've got two private mailing lists here - one relating specifically to investigations, and one relating to cyberstalking, both hosted by Wikia (AFAIK). Both are probably largely filled with the same people. To which one did Durova's email go? Investigations, surely? Then again, perhaps not. Enlighten? Moreschi If you've written a quality article... 21:52, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Here, JzG confirms that Jimbo is a member of these groups...

What was that they were saying about the Cabal not existing??

I think Guy is confirming that Jimbo is/was on the Cyberstalking list. I haven't seen anything authoritative about the membership of the sleuthing list, whether it contains all of the same people or not.

It would appear that they've hired real private investigators and are in the process of putting forward a campaign of information warfare. I'm not kidding, kiddies.

Slimvirgin feels stalked. Durova also feels stalked, which is a hoot, because what's happened is that her activites and abuses have been surveilled, not her life. That's par for the course. Durova's not written an article about anyone, like Slim did, who wants it down, I doubt anyone would treat her as Slim has been treated (payback). Still, Durova needs drama, so she's conflating this examination of her abusive behavior as stalking.

Durova wants stalking drama to be front and center stage. Anyone familiar with Durova's sock puppet investigations knows that once Durova wants, she haraunges management until they treat it like one. They aren't smart enough to see that she's making more trouble than she's solving. Durova isn't stalked, really (just like there is no sockpuppet army), but she will institute a counter-intelligence effort, which means she's going to start stalking people.

She's so weird.

But the gloves are off. They've hired private investigators, and possibly black hat hackers, although the latter are probably for free.

This post has been edited by Disillusioned Lackey: Mon 26th November 2007, 12:49pm

It would appear that they've hired real private investigators and are in the process of putting forward a campaign of information warfare.

I'm not kidding, kiddies.

Slimvirgin feels stalked. Durova feels stalked, which is a hoot, because what's happened is that her activites and abuses have been surveilled, not her life. That's par for the course.

Durova isn't all that interesting as a person, and since she's not written an article about anyone, like Slim did, who wants it down, I doubt anyone would treat her as Slim has been treated.

But the gloves are off. They've hired private investigators, and possibly black hat hackers, although the latter are probably for free.

Can you give us a diff for this? Or do you have "insider info"?

I read the PI stuff on Wikipedia (or was it here). Or maybe on pipermail.

I don't have time to find it, sorry. I know that sounds like Durova, but maybe you could go find it??

I need to get some things done here.

I read the PI stuff on Wikipedia (or was it here). Or maybe on pipermail.

I don't have time to find it, sorry. I know that sounds like Durova, but maybe you could go find it??

I need to get some things done here.

I had thought that I had read pretty much everything about this, but maybe I'm not looking in the right place; Has anybody else seen this? (I'm not implying that you're making this up: I'd just like to see this in the context).

Newsflash : There are TWO mailing lists :

Two mailing lists

BTW, we've got two private mailing lists here - one relating specifically to investigations, and one relating to cyberstalking, both hosted by Wikia (AFAIK). Both are probably largely filled with the same people. To which one did Durova's email go? Investigations, surely? Then again, perhaps not. Enlighten? Moreschi If you've written a quality article... 21:52, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Here, JzG confirms that Jimbo is a member of these groups...

What was that they were saying about the Cabal not existing??

For the day that the Cabal oversights the Wikia-hosted private list and the "semi-official" confirmation that it exists...

http://www.webcitation.org/5TdnT9Lhy

http://www.webcitation.org/5Tdnzo7d3

WebCite is so handy!

Greg

Newsflash : There are TWO mailing lists :

Two mailing lists

BTW, we've got two private mailing lists here - one relating specifically to investigations, and one relating to cyberstalking, both hosted by Wikia (AFAIK). Both are probably largely filled with the same people. To which one did Durova's email go? Investigations, surely? Then again, perhaps not. Enlighten? Moreschi If you've written a quality article... 21:52, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Here, JzG confirms that Jimbo is a member of these groups...

What was that they were saying about the Cabal not existing??

For the day that the Cabal oversights the Wikia-hosted private list and the "semi-official" confirmation that it exists...

http://www.webcitation.org/5TdnT9Lhy

http://www.webcitation.org/5Tdnzo7d3

WebCite is so handy!

Greg

I'm going to copy this over to the Durova thread too. It might be handy to have these in two places....

I'm going to copy this over to the Durova thread too. It might be handy to have these in two places....

Indeed, especially with Durova recently saying, "Questions about Wikipedia's mailing lists are red herrings," as well as acting all confused, "How is Wikia involved in this at all? I have no connection whatsoever to Wikia. And so far as I know, neither does any other named party."

I tell you all, the heaviest fallout from this entire Durova vs. !! episode is going to be the private mailing list being hosted on Wikia, under the authority of Jimmy Wales. Al Capone was brought down on tax evasion charges. Jimmy will face a similar style of music.

Greg

I'm going to copy this over to the Durova thread too. It might be handy to have these in two places....

Indeed, especially with Durova recently saying, "Questions about Wikipedia's mailing lists are red herrings," as well as acting all confused, "How is Wikia involved in this at all? I have no connection whatsoever to Wikia. And so far as I know, neither does any other named party."

I tell you all, the heaviest fallout from this entire Durova vs. !! episode is going to be the private mailing list being hosted on Wikia, under the authority of Jimmy Wales. Al Capone was brought down on tax evasion charges. Jimmy will face a similar style of music.

Greg

Unfortunately for her, they can't get Gianno for copyright violations because she's released her mail under the Gnu license and he obviously credited her for her post....They really haven't thought this through at all. If I were Mike Godwin, I'd sitting at my desk holding my head in my hands right now....

The bigger issue is that the case exposes more than a one-off event.

The case exposes a corrosive systematic practice of sub-rosa machinations that fundamentally corrupts due process.

The bigger issue is that the case exposes more than a one-off event.

The case exposes a corrosive systematic practice of sub-rosa machinations that fundamentally corrupts due process.

I doubt that was the intention, though clearly those intentions have gone awry.

No one deserves to be outed, attacked, libeled and/or harassed on Wikipedia - not Judd Bagley, not Gary Weiss, not Jeff Merkey, not Heidi Wyss, not Tim Pierce, not Greg Kohs, not Lise Broer, not Daniel Brandt, not Slim Virgin, not HighinBC, not Don Murphy, not in bios, not in talk space, not in user space, not in arbitration pages.

But how many people walk straight on that line? By now it seems only an argument between who should and shouldn't be outed, who should or shouldn't be attacked.

The people who outed PrivateMusings' RWI are stalkers themselves, by their own definitions. It's not the first time that Jzg has violated an editor's privacy against policy, against the very same common decency that they appeal to in others, and it's not the first time that the powers that be have supported it.

The thing about those privacy violations is, you can't really take them back. Still, people who violate contributors' privacy and/or attack living people from Wikipedia should be desysoped and banned, not allowed to remain in the inner circle, much less as part of a group which claims to fight outing and harassment.

if the most powerful administrators and arbitrators won't even follow their own policies (clue to Matt Brown: changing them post facto doesn't count as "following them"), how on earth can they expect people who've no pledge to uphold them to do so?

Al Capone was brought down on tax evasion charges. Jimmy will face a similar style of music.

Greg

I thought it was mail fraud, was it not? (edit - whoops, my bad. I confused it with the movie "The Firm")

Maybe Jimbo has some unpaid parking tickets we don't know about.

This post has been edited by Disillusioned Lackey: Tue 27th November 2007, 8:36am

Slimey speaks (curiously, through an email forwarded thru Dave Gerard):

From: SlimVirgin <slimvirgin at gmail.com>
Date: 27 Nov 2007 20:06
Subject: (offlist) Re: [WikiEN-l] Missed Opportunities to have avoided
the Durova Case
To: David Gerard <dgerard at gmail.com>


David, would you or one of the other moderators please forward this reply to the mailing list?

Sarah

> From: Christiano Moreschi <moreschiwikiman at otmail.co.uk>
> Date: Nov 27, 2007 1:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Missed Opportunities to have avoided the Durova Case
> To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
>
> <snip> In fact, Alison memorably
> described it as chock-full of "bitterness, anger and wikipolitics". Oh dear.

How do you know Alison said this? Are you aware that she has stated clearly she was not a member of the list?

Moreschi, whoever your informant is, they're not giving you an
accurate picture. First, I had almost nothing to do with the
investigations list and have virtually no knowledge of it. My
recollection is that I posted to it once, and that was recently to say I
had no interest in it. If it was more than once, it wasn't very much
more. And your description of the cyberstalking discussion group is
just plain wrong.

I'd appreciate it if you'd quit with the
SlimVirgin's-to-blame-for-everything meme that certain individuals
love to promote. Its only effect is to muddy the issues you're trying
to clarify, so it's in no-one's interests, except for the people who
grab any opportunity to attack me. I hope you're not playing to that
gallery.

I'm not a subscriber to this list, so if anyone wants me to read
replies, please cc me.

Sarah

Poor Slimey - - she's falsely "blamed for everything", despite having "virtually no knowledge" (is that like having actually no knowledge of the dirty deeds. Poor, poor, pitiful cabalista. Oh, and we here at WR are now a "gallery" -- would you like to see my etchings?

Slimey speaks (curiously, through an email forwarded thru Dave Gerard):

From: SlimVirgin <slimvirgin at gmail.com>
Date: 27 Nov 2007 20:06
Subject: (offlist) Re: [WikiEN-l] Missed Opportunities to have avoided the Durova Case
To: David Gerard <dgerard at gmail.com>

> <snip> In fact, Alison memorably
> described it as chock-full of "bitterness, anger and wikipolitics". Oh dear.

How do you know Alison said this? Are you aware that she has stated clearly she was not a member of the list?

Hey, Alison is here. Why not <drum roll> ask her? And Moreschi could also register an account. Why not let him respond to this?

I mean, WR is about letting people respond to this kind of thing, without penalty, isn't it?

Hey, Alison is here. Why not <drum roll> ask her? And Moreschi could also register an account. Why not let him respond to this?

I mean, WR is about letting people respond to this kind of thing, without penalty, isn't it?

Just because we don't spank them doesn't mean they won't get spanked back at home.

This is the internet.

First, I had almost nothing to do with the
investigations list and have virtually no knowledge of it. My
recollection is that I posted to it once, and that was recently to say I
had no interest in it. If it was more than once, it wasn't very much
more.
Sarah

I'd guess that SlimVirgin is telling the truth.