The Wikipedia Review: A forum for discussion and criticism of Wikipedia
Wikipedia Review Op-Ed Pages

Welcome, Guest! ( Log In | Register )

> Help

This subforum is for critical evaluation of Wikipedia articles. However, to reduce topic-bloat, please make note of exceptionally poor stubs, lists, and other less attention-worthy material in the Miscellaneous Grab Bag thread. Also, please be aware that agents of the Wikimedia Foundation might use your evaluations to improve the articles in question.

Useful Links: Featured Article CandidatesFeatured Article ReviewArticles for DeletionDeletion Review

5 Pages V  1 2 3 > »   
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> The Old Man Murray flap
EricBarbour
post Fri 4th March 2011, 11:07am
Post #1


blah
*********

Group: Regulars
Posts: 5,919
Joined: Mon 25th Feb 2008, 2:31am
Member No.: 5,066

WP user page - talk
check - contribs



Didn't anyone notice this?
SchuminWeb (T-C-L-K-R-D) , who has apparently held a grudge against OMM writer Erik Wolpaw,
somehow managed to get the Wikipedia article about OMM (an old gaming site) deleted.

Schumin tried before in January.
The only vote I can see is from MelanieN (T-C-L-K-R-D) . Girlfriend? Sock?

Among the results:

Boing Boing had considerable coverage of it. Note some of the comments:
QUOTE
Sometimes I wish I could get back money I donated to them. I doubt I'll ever donate to wiki again.
QUOTE
This is standard Wikipedia. It's such a corrupt incestuous sausagefest. 'Free Encyclopedia' my ass.
I've given up even trying to bother getting useful info past the neckbeards who run the place - there are just too many hidden toes that are easily trod upon.

Oops! Neckbeards, ha ha.

And here it is on Slashdot. Result: similar comments.
QUOTE
You know what should make your scratch your head? The problem you have just described at the same time happens to be the very essence and fundamental principle of Wikipedia. That anyone, including stupid morons, trolls with hidden agenda (competitors), and outright psychopaths can edit it any and every second, repeatedly and infinitely.
It follows that Wikipedia is, and has inherently been from the very beginning, a fundamentally flawed experiment. Thanks god Google is starting to realize this and is moving the Wikipedia result to SERPS position #5, while the first 4 links point to the authoritative or official site (if one exists).
QUOTE
I used to contribute a fair amount to Wikipedia to get my brain going in the morning. I quit doing so a couple years ago, because the whole infighting and "notability" crap was ridiculous. Every single character from a book, movie, cartoon, video game, anime (pokemon, etc) gets a many-paged detailed entry while real people quickly get the brush because someone gets a thorn in their ass over something. And those "somethings" are hard to pin down. Some entries surprisingly don't exist, while others (someone with a podcast you've never heard of or who is supposedly some self-described social media expert, etc) gets an entry. That idiot from "Hot For Words" even has a wikipedia entry.
QUOTE
Firstly, I won't be donating to Wikipedia again. This is not because I'm an OMM fanboy taking my bat home in a huff, although I am also that. But actually, it's because this story has made me look into Wikipedia more, and apparently this shit is rife. I guess I should have known that, but I'd always been scared to check because I still had some faith in one human endeavour and was happy to let things stay that way, until I felt some pressing need to know otherwise. Well, game over on that front. Back to total misanthropy for me.
Secondly, it's actually quite an interesting read because the Schumin guy who nominated for deletion, is evidently really, really, pathetic. And not in a kind of sad and disappointing, move along cowboy way, but actually to a degree that's almost gripping. This article highlights an almost iconic exemplar of the form of pathetic, to the degree that it's actually compelling.
To whit, and as best as I can tell from summaries, a man who is mocked - for being pathetic no less - by a popular gaming culture website waits a DECADE for revenge, whilst the world moves on around him, and the revengee behind the site goes on to pen dialogue for a video game that many people rightly consider one of the genuinely enduring classics of the new age.

I've seen a lot of buzz about this on gaming forums.

Mr. Schumin is quite the classic Wikipedia admin-troll. Look at the vote in his 2007 RFA.
Now look at the vote when he first tried in 2006.
There are numerous complaints about him in AN/I and Wikiquette.
And btw, he cooperates with Cirt when Scientology articles come up.....

This post has been edited by EricBarbour: Fri 4th March 2011, 11:29am
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
SB_Johnny
post Fri 4th March 2011, 11:53am
Post #2


It wasn't me who made honky-tonk angels
*******

Group: Regulars
Posts: 2,128
Joined: Mon 15th Sep 2008, 3:10pm
Member No.: 8,272

WP user page - talk
check - contribs



QUOTE(EricBarbour @ Fri 4th March 2011, 6:07am) *

And btw, he cooperates with Cirt when Scientology articles come up.....

No surprise there. fear.gif
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
carbuncle
post Fri 4th March 2011, 12:29pm
Post #3


Fat Cat
******

Group: Regulars
Posts: 1,601
Joined: Sun 30th Mar 2008, 4:48pm
Member No.: 5,544



QUOTE(SB_Johnny @ Fri 4th March 2011, 11:53am) *

QUOTE(EricBarbour @ Fri 4th March 2011, 6:07am) *

And btw, he cooperates with Cirt when Scientology articles come up.....

No surprise there. fear.gif

Image

<insert cruel joke here>

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
SB_Johnny
post Fri 4th March 2011, 12:54pm
Post #4


It wasn't me who made honky-tonk angels
*******

Group: Regulars
Posts: 2,128
Joined: Mon 15th Sep 2008, 3:10pm
Member No.: 8,272

WP user page - talk
check - contribs



QUOTE(carbuncle @ Fri 4th March 2011, 7:29am) *

QUOTE(SB_Johnny @ Fri 4th March 2011, 11:53am) *

QUOTE(EricBarbour @ Fri 4th March 2011, 6:07am) *

And btw, he cooperates with Cirt when Scientology articles come up.....

No surprise there. fear.gif

<insert cruel joke here>


I wasn't commenting on his appearance so much as the reason he gives for "not wearing a mask" on the file description.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Silver seren
post Fri 4th March 2011, 4:21pm
Post #5


Senior Member
****

Group: Contributors
Posts: 470
Joined: Thu 30th Dec 2010, 2:09pm
Member No.: 36,940

WP user page - talk
check - contribs



I was wondering what was taking you guys so long to make a topic on this. tongue.gif

The good thing is, we were able to reverse Schumin's blatant COI pushing.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
taiwopanfob
post Fri 4th March 2011, 6:29pm
Post #6


Über Member
*****

Group: Regulars
Posts: 643
Joined: Fri 26th May 2006, 12:21pm
Member No.: 214



QUOTE(Silver seren @ Fri 4th March 2011, 4:21pm) *
The good thing is, we were able to reverse Schumin's blatant COI pushing.


The bridge collapsed ... good thing is, we kept the plans and were able to rebuild a copy!
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Silver seren
post Fri 4th March 2011, 6:32pm
Post #7


Senior Member
****

Group: Contributors
Posts: 470
Joined: Thu 30th Dec 2010, 2:09pm
Member No.: 36,940

WP user page - talk
check - contribs



QUOTE(taiwopanfob @ Fri 4th March 2011, 6:29pm) *

QUOTE(Silver seren @ Fri 4th March 2011, 4:21pm) *
The good thing is, we were able to reverse Schumin's blatant COI pushing.


The bridge collapsed ... good thing is, we kept the plans and were able to rebuild a copy!


Dude, are you just going to be following me around and insulting me whenever you get the chance?

And to extend on your metaphor, we were able to improve upon the design of the bridge and build a better one because of it.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
taiwopanfob
post Fri 4th March 2011, 6:35pm
Post #8


Über Member
*****

Group: Regulars
Posts: 643
Joined: Fri 26th May 2006, 12:21pm
Member No.: 214



QUOTE(Silver seren @ Fri 4th March 2011, 6:32pm) *

QUOTE(taiwopanfob @ Fri 4th March 2011, 6:29pm) *

QUOTE(Silver seren @ Fri 4th March 2011, 4:21pm) *
The good thing is, we were able to reverse Schumin's blatant COI pushing.


The bridge collapsed ... good thing is, we kept the plans and were able to rebuild a copy!


Dude, are you just going to be following me around and insulting me whenever you get the chance?


Your naive apologetics are vastly more insulting. Can't take the heat, get the fuck out of the kitchen.

QUOTE
And to extend on your metaphor, we were able to improve upon the design of the bridge and build a better one because of it.


Naive twat: you have improved _nothing_.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Zoloft
post Fri 4th March 2011, 6:43pm
Post #9


May we all find solace in our dreams.
******

Group: Regulars
Posts: 1,332
Joined: Fri 15th Jan 2010, 11:08pm
From: Erewhon
Member No.: 16,621



QUOTE(taiwopanfob @ Fri 4th March 2011, 10:35am) *
QUOTE(Silver seren @ Fri 4th March 2011, 6:32pm) *
QUOTE(taiwopanfob @ Fri 4th March 2011, 6:29pm) *
QUOTE(Silver seren @ Fri 4th March 2011, 4:21pm) *
The good thing is, we were able to reverse Schumin's blatant COI pushing.
The bridge collapsed ... good thing is, we kept the plans and were able to rebuild a copy!
Dude, are you just going to be following me around and insulting me whenever you get the chance?
Your naive apologetics are vastly more insulting. Can't take the heat, get the fuck out of the kitchen.
QUOTE
And to extend on your metaphor, we were able to improve upon the design of the bridge and build a better one because of it.
Naive twat: you have improved _nothing_.

Y'know, taiwanwatchfob, there's being critical of a person's efforts, and then there's just name-calling. You're being tiresomely disagreeable. tongue.gif

This post has been edited by Zoloft: Fri 4th March 2011, 6:45pm
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Silver seren
post Fri 4th March 2011, 6:47pm
Post #10


Senior Member
****

Group: Contributors
Posts: 470
Joined: Thu 30th Dec 2010, 2:09pm
Member No.: 36,940

WP user page - talk
check - contribs



It just feels silly to even have to argue that there are clear improvements from this version when it was userfied after the AfD to the current version.

And it is certainly similar to, but way better than the old version.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Tarc
post Fri 4th March 2011, 6:48pm
Post #11


Fat Cat
******

Group: Regulars
Posts: 1,124
Joined: Fri 7th Mar 2008, 3:38am
Member No.: 5,309

WP user page - talk
check - contribs



I don't really get the big deal of the "COI" complaint angle. If he'd just up and blown it away via fiat, sure, that'd be a prob. But just initiating a deletion discussion? No, you still need to convince others of the merits of the deletion. The whys, hows, and whos of who started an AfD rarely come in to play.

I don't wanna cross-pollute topics too much here, but the Wikipe-tan nominator was just blocked as some sock today, but the debate still goes on, validly.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
taiwopanfob
post Fri 4th March 2011, 6:48pm
Post #12


Über Member
*****

Group: Regulars
Posts: 643
Joined: Fri 26th May 2006, 12:21pm
Member No.: 214



QUOTE(Zoloft @ Fri 4th March 2011, 6:43pm) *
Y'know, taiwanwatchfob, there's being critical of a person's efforts, and then there's just name-calling. You're tiresomely disagreeable. tongue.gif


Silver seren is not a naive apologist, another piece of wiki-trash washed up on the shores of Wikipedia Review? Good grief.

In any case, in consideration of the source of these remarks, I'll back off.

Oops. One moment. Another bit of nonsense to be corrected from the man...


This post has been edited by taiwopanfob: Fri 4th March 2011, 6:50pm
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Silver seren
post Fri 4th March 2011, 6:50pm
Post #13


Senior Member
****

Group: Contributors
Posts: 470
Joined: Thu 30th Dec 2010, 2:09pm
Member No.: 36,940

WP user page - talk
check - contribs



(Not even going to bother.)

@Tarc: Well, I think the main issue is that the COI (or sock-blocking) kinda taints the AfD discussion and is likely to bog it down into discussions of such.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
taiwopanfob
post Fri 4th March 2011, 7:02pm
Post #14


Über Member
*****

Group: Regulars
Posts: 643
Joined: Fri 26th May 2006, 12:21pm
Member No.: 214



QUOTE(Silver seren @ Fri 4th March 2011, 6:47pm) *

It just feels silly to even have to argue that there are clear improvements from this version when it was userfied after the AfD to the current version.

And it is certainly similar to, but way better than the old version.


When the Tacoma Narrows bridge collapsed in 1940, there was a careful examination towards cause. The film taken of the event -- youtube it -- still sends shivers down the spine of any engineer worthy of the title. Ever since, new designs are very carefully checked to make sure they were not subject to the same design flaw.

Seems to have worked so far: probably hundreds of new bridges since, and none have collapsed in the same way.

Funny how engineering works, eh?

Now, if you really think your pasting more lipstick onto the pig are in any way "design improvements" in the same vein, you are beyond hope.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
LessHorrid vanU
post Fri 4th March 2011, 9:02pm
Post #15


Devils Advocaat
*****

Group: Regulars
Posts: 836
Joined: Thu 11th Oct 2007, 9:56pm
Member No.: 3,466

WP user page - talk
check - contribs



If these two piddlers are going to continue, can it go into the WP Annexe?
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
EricBarbour
post Fri 4th March 2011, 9:18pm
Post #16


blah
*********

Group: Regulars
Posts: 5,919
Joined: Mon 25th Feb 2008, 2:31am
Member No.: 5,066

WP user page - talk
check - contribs



TW was so busy bitching out Seren, that neither one of them noted something important:

The news coverage of this (the Boing Boing and Slashdot articles) were followed with a considerable
number of comments. Comments that, for the first time I can recall, attacked Wikipedia's internal
culture for corruption and insanity.

And there was (some) coverage of this on gaming blogs/forums. For example:
RockPaperShotgun
Caltrops (complete with the comment aimed at Schumin: "You fucked with the wrong website, you disgustingly obese nobody. ")
Penny Arcade

The gamer natives are restless, Seren. This little episode, despite a "favorable" result to inclusionists,
has garnered a lot of the wrong kind of attention among gamers.

And if you ever need proof that Wikipedia's admin forces contain some amazingly pathetic specimens......
look at Schumin's website. It's been up since 1996, and it looks as if he hasn't improved it since 1996.

Interesting: this. And this, and this and this.
He spends a LOT of time on his journal ranting about his activities, protesting the CoS.

Personally I'm fine with that, I dislike the CoS as much as anyone. But seriously, if I were a member of
Anonymous, I'd be embarrassed to have a clod like Ben Schumin in the group.

Plus, he's one of the few signatories to Neutrality in Scientology.
He's been sneakily messing with articles like Jenna Miscavige Hill and other CoS-related items.

Read his edit history. People made him an admin based on his fooling people that he was an "inclusionist".
Yet his edits show the term "(rm unsourced trivia)" over and over and over again.

This post has been edited by EricBarbour: Fri 4th March 2011, 9:27pm
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Silver seren
post Fri 4th March 2011, 9:31pm
Post #17


Senior Member
****

Group: Contributors
Posts: 470
Joined: Thu 30th Dec 2010, 2:09pm
Member No.: 36,940

WP user page - talk
check - contribs



I won't go into details, but *coughs* Anonymous is embarrassed that he's a member. unsure.gif

I think the main point that people need to understand though is that anyone can put something up for deletion. And a number of people have all agreed, evidenced by the deletion review discussion, that the closing admin was dead wrong in his decision. The actions of those two, Schumin especially, are not representative of Wikipedia. It would be different if OMM stayed deleted, but it didn't, the decision was reversed.

And, as at least some of the people in those discussion are pointing out, the Rock, Paper, Shotgun one especially, it would be helpful if news website actually covered these things if they are notable and important. The fact that there is not that much about Old Man Murray (though more stuff now thanks to this incident) is not the fault of Wikipedia, but the gaming news industry itself.


Edit: What am I supposed to be seeing here? He didn't really add any content, he just rearranged some sentences and moved the references that were in a list at the bottom of the page in as inline references.

This post has been edited by Silver seren: Fri 4th March 2011, 9:34pm
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Wikicrusher2
post Fri 4th March 2011, 9:42pm
Post #18


Member
***

Group: Contributors
Posts: 102
Joined: Sat 17th Oct 2009, 9:34pm
From: "The name of our country is América." -Bolivar
Member No.: 14,796



QUOTE(EricBarbour @ Fri 4th March 2011, 1:18pm) *

Read his edit history. People made him an admin based on his fooling people that he was an "inclusionist".
Yet his edits show the term "(rm unsourced trivia)" over and over and over again.

It's probably better than keeping around unsourced trivia. Wikipedia has enough "inclusionism" for fanboy material already, especially comics and anime.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
EricBarbour
post Fri 4th March 2011, 10:03pm
Post #19


blah
*********

Group: Regulars
Posts: 5,919
Joined: Mon 25th Feb 2008, 2:31am
Member No.: 5,066

WP user page - talk
check - contribs



Perhaps I should comment on something else.

Schumin spends quite a bit of time sneakily watching/manicuring articles about people and things related to Erik Wolpaw and oldmanmurray.com.

For example, the game Wolpaw is famous for helping write: Portal.
Plus Wolpaw associates, such as Marc Laidlaw and K. Thor Jensen.
Plus Portal Of Evil, which he had already killed (after which it was redirected to a user's version).
Might have something to do with PoE's users mocking him?

Isn't it interesting that Wolpaw's partner in OMM and at Valve, Chet Faliszek, doesn't have a Wikipedia BLP?
As one of the primary authors of both Portal and the Left 4 Dead franchise, I'd think Chet was "notable". Google him if you don't believe me.

I wonder if Schumin's thinking about deleting the Laidlaw, Portal and Left 4 Dead articles, also.

Ben Schumin is a very smug "little" man, and keeping him in the Wikipedia admin ranks is a really, really bad idea, okay?

This post has been edited by EricBarbour: Fri 4th March 2011, 10:06pm
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Silver seren
post Fri 4th March 2011, 10:23pm
Post #20


Senior Member
****

Group: Contributors
Posts: 470
Joined: Thu 30th Dec 2010, 2:09pm
Member No.: 36,940

WP user page - talk
check - contribs



Sadly, I don't think there's anything I can do about him personally.

And, geez, stop giving me work to do, you guys! Now I have to add Chet to my list of articles to make.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

5 Pages V  1 2 3 > » 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 

-   Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 30th 3 17, 6:35pm