Under 12s fair game for bios, "famous" for being bullied Options

[Supine]

Jessi Slaughter may be spared having to endure her article's continued existence; on the other hand, she may not, given how many think we should be putting together an encyclopedia of those children unfortunate enough to experience bullying.

[Alison]

Jessi Slaughter may be spared having to endure her article's continued existence; on the other hand, she may not, given how many think we should be putting together an encyclopedia of those children unfortunate enough to experience bullying.

Epic amounts of stupidity all round. Stupid kid, posting her n00dz, then taunting /b/ with some of the most egregiously offensive dialog I ever heard from a child; "suck my non-existent dick" / "I'll pop a glock in your mouth and make a brain slushie" - WTF? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/confused.gif)

Stupid parents. Didn't know / care what their child did on-line and didn't even followup after the event. more WTF? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/sick.gif)

Stupid, stupid Wikipedians. Let's make a permanent record in an alleged encyclopedia of the child's epic fail, and create a place for people to endlessly post her illegal, underage nude pics, so that it haunts her adolescence long after the main event is over. Gah (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/yak.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/yecch.gif)

[SB_Johnny]

Jessi Slaughter may be spared having to endure her article's continued existence; on the other hand, she may not, given how many think we should be putting together an encyclopedia of those children unfortunate enough to experience bullying.

Epic amounts of stupidity all round. Stupid kid, posting her n00dz, then taunting /b/ with some of the most egregiously offensive dialog I ever heard from a child; "suck my non-existent dick" / "I'll pop a glock in your mouth and make a brain slushie" - WTF? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/confused.gif)

Stupid parents. Didn't know / care what their child did on-line and didn't even followup after the event. more WTF? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/sick.gif)

Stupid, stupid Wikipedians. Let's make a permanent record in an alleged encyclopedia of the child's epic fail, and create a place for people to endlessly post her illegal, underage nude pics, so that it haunts her adolescence long after the main event is over. Gah (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/yak.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/yecch.gif)

If it survives tha AFD, that will be pretty clear evidence that WP's take on "notability" needs to be thrown out the window.

Curious though: if her parents didn't know what she was doing online, shouldn't Google be nuking the videos under COPPA?

[NuclearWarfare]

Youtube has taken the videos down, I believe.

[lilburne]

Wikipage gone too.

[Somey]

Are pages like this automatically moved to the "Annex" Wikia site, revision histories and all? Or is there some sort of special user feature on Wikia that allows WP'ers to do that?

Also, wasn't "Jessi Slaughter" a pseudonym? I might actually have thought there was some value in having an article strictly about the case itself - as long as it didn't get too personal (and obviously the WP article was way too focused on the girl herself), and didn't contain a lot of salacious photos and screen-grabs (it did). After all, it was just last week that we were discussing the range of sources for child porn on the internet and on WP in particular, and I do recall saying that the kids themselves might well be both the photographers and uploaders in many cases. I'm also far more willing to believe the idea that the parents just had no clue as to what was going on than the idea that they simply didn't care, or were actually (yuck!) putting her up to it.

But IMO most of the sites in question (Wikia notwithstanding) took care of things fairly well, and in a reasonably short period of time once the story got into the media. The AfD was/is probably a good exemplar of how WP deals with issues relating to dangerously narcissistic children, in that it was mostly "Keep" votes for the first few hours until some adults (Alison being one ofthe first, I noticed (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif) ) finally showed up and started pointing out the obvious. One might speculate on how many such cases slip by because there's no media coverage, but it's more likely that this is a rare occurrence - or at least it has been so far. Five years from now, the WP "community" might well be dealing with this sort of thing on a regular basis... assuming it survives that long.

[SB_Johnny]

Are pages like this automatically moved to the "Annex" Wikia site, revision histories and all? Or is there some sort of special user feature on Wikia that allows WP'ers to do that?

Obviously the real problem with BLPs is that they're not making money for Jimbo. Problem solved.

[Somey]

Obviously the real problem with BLPs is that they're not making money for Jimbo. Problem solved.

Well, I might not even have pointed that out, except that they've got some sort of "Find Sources" template that queries Google with the name of the article (in quotes) and "-wikipedia" to theoretically remove the WP page itself from the results (this may or may not also remove some scrapers). They used the template on the AfD page, and the annex.wikia.com copy of the article is the first result. If you remove the "-wikipedia" you get a completely different set of results, and if you just type in "Jessi Slaughter" (with quotes), the first result is from knowyourmeme.com, an offshoot of Rocketboom.com, a mostly-crowdsourced "internet culture news" site (this is perhaps an attempt to set up an "Encyclopedia Dramatica for grown-ups" sort of affair).

Remember, the Main Page of the Wikia Annex states (boldface mine) that it "hopes to be a place where Wikipedia fiction and fiction-related articles that are too detailed, minor, or trivial for Wikipedia can be kept until they find a new home. Reasonable non-fiction articles threatened with deletion may be posted as well."

Hope springs eternal, I guess!

(Edit: I see now there is indeed an export/import feature available).

[NuclearWarfare]

Are pages like this automatically moved to the "Annex" Wikia site, revision histories and all? Or is there some sort of special user feature on Wikia that allows WP'ers to do that?

There is an import/export feature on MediaWiki, which was used in this case by someone named Quinsareth to import the page. They seem to have a Wikipedia account as well (Quinsareth (T-C-L-K-R-D) ), but they haven't edited for 2.5 years.

[Somey]

There is an import/export feature on MediaWiki, which was used in this case by someone named Quinsareth to import the page. They seem to have a Wikipedia account as well (Quinsareth (T-C-L-K-R-D) ), but they haven't edited for 2.5 years.

Ah. I notice on his talk page, there's Angela Beesley touting a new feature called "WikiRecycle" to make it easier for Wikia users to bring over Wikipedia pages, apparently including those specifically meant to ruin the subsequent social lives of 12-year-old girls...

Anyway, putting this Wikia-scrape business aside for the moment, what would a "typical" parent do in a situation like this, if this were their daughter? Some degree of childhood narcissism is natural, maybe even healthy, but I'd have to say this is a good deal beyond that. Even so, if enormous numbers of 12-year-old girls have webcams, and the people on 4chan's /b/ forum are determined to make them "famous" (well, at least the "lulzy" ones), what do you do? I should think that if you've already completely messed up on the whole responsible-parenting thing, nothing short of imprisoning the poor kid in a room without a computer in it (or at least no internet) until she grows up is going to keep her from doing this stuff.

What's more, if Wikipedia remains true to form and refuses to acknowledge the principle of case-precedent as a means of dealing with such issues, we're going to see more of this sort of thing, not less. IOW, I doubt we're going to see "articles about internet memes involving 12-year-old girls who manage to become Youtube celebrities for a week or two" listed in the deletion criteria anytime soon - after all, they might fail to cover something really important! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)

[SB_Johnny]

There is an import/export feature on MediaWiki, which was used in this case by someone named Quinsareth to import the page. They seem to have a Wikipedia account as well (Quinsareth (T-C-L-K-R-D) ), but they haven't edited for 2.5 years.

Ah. I notice on his talk page, there's Angela Beesley touting a new feature called "WikiRecycle" to make it easier for Wikia users to bring over Wikipedia pages, apparently including those specifically meant to ruin the subsequent social lives of 12-year-old girls...

Anyway, putting this Wikia-scrape business aside for the moment, what would a "typical" parent do in a situation like this, if this were their daughter? Some degree of childhood narcissism is natural, maybe even healthy, but I'd have to say this is a good deal beyond that. Even so, if enormous numbers of 12-year-old girls have webcams, and the people on 4chan's /b/ forum are determined to make them "famous" (well, at least the "lulzy" ones), what do you do? I should think that if you've already completely messed up on the whole responsible-parenting thing, nothing short of imprisoning the poor kid in a room without a computer in it (or at least no internet) until she grows up is going to keep her from doing this stuff.

What's more, if Wikipedia remains true to form and refuses to acknowledge the principle of case-precedent as a means of dealing with such issues, we're going to see more of this sort of thing, not less. IOW, I doubt we're going to see "articles about internet memes involving 12-year-old girls who manage to become Youtube celebrities for a week or two" listed in the deletion criteria anytime soon - after all, they might fail to cover something really important! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)

Right, but she's 11. 12-year-old girls are much wiser, and deserve what they get. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/rolleyes.gif)

[Somey]

Right, but she's 11. 12-year-old girls are much wiser, and deserve what they get. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/rolleyes.gif)

Okay, but at that age their brain-pans are still growing. It'll be at least two more years before they can successfully implant one of those new "internet behavioral governing chip" thingies into her frontal lobe, which should hopefully solve the problem once and for all. In the meantime, though...?

Stories like this make me really glad I never had kids!

[Alison]

Anyway, putting this Wikia-scrape business aside for the moment, what would a "typical" parent do in a situation like this, if this were their daughter? Some degree of childhood narcissism is natural, maybe even healthy, but I'd have to say this is a good deal beyond that. Even so, if enormous numbers of 12-year-old girls have webcams, and the people on 4chan's /b/ forum are determined to make them "famous" (well, at least the "lulzy" ones), what do you do? I should think that if you've already completely messed up on the whole responsible-parenting thing, nothing short of imprisoning the poor kid in a room without a computer in it (or at least no internet) until she grows up is going to keep her from doing this stuff.

Off the top of my head, and in no particular order;

• Don't allow them to have computers/laptops in their bedrooms. Have them in the family room where they're visible.
• Restrict their hours on-line to sane levels (and do the same for the TV!) There are software packages available for this and I happen to know - *coff* - that MacOS X has a built-in option to enable this.
• Give them their own account and let them know from the outset that you will be monitoring it at whim.
• Operate a URL whitelist. Yes, I know it's draconian but tough shit (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/happy.gif) Dem's the rules.
• Disable that webcam!
• Enable the ratings system for media (MacOS X again has it. Windoze likely does, too)
• Enable the profanity filter on the dictionary and thesaurus, if ya care. I didn't.
• Most importantly, show an interest in their on-line activities and show them you care. Make sure you have an environment in which they feel they can talk freely with you.
• Show them respect. Don't block *everything* but be sensible and be actively involved.
• Email whitelists for sending. Use them.
• Teach them how to be smart on-line and to look after their dox. Never reveal personal information to strangers and don't post it to websites. Keep their RL name off everything.
• IRC. Kill it.

[EricBarbour]

That AFD is a textbook example of what Wiki-idiocy means.
At first, it gets a number of wobbly "Keep" votes, for the usual soft-headed "oh, it's notable now" mumble by assorted nerds. (Damn that Ingersollian (T-C-L-K-R-D) . His love for Robert Ingersoll is commendable, but he's taking "freethinking" a little too far. Oh looky, he's offering people money to improve articles for FA! Funny that! I thought that was a terrible crime......or something......)

Then a bunch of noted admins weighs in for deletion, and hey presto, it's done for.
Some Wikipedians are more equal than others.

Gee guys, didjall see this thread on WR, and then go over and vote to delete?
'Cuz most of the admins who voted delete also happen to hang out here regularly.....

Youtube has taken the videos down, I believe.

And people keep reposting them.

You don't need to beat your classmates up in the schoolyard anymore. Web 2.0 will do it for you.

This post has been edited by EricBarbour:

[Alison]

Gee guys, didjall see this thread on WR, and then go over and vote to delete? 'Cuz most of the admins who voted delete also happen to hang out here regularly.....

/me puts hand up (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif) I don't do Wikipedia any more so have to check in here.

And people keep reposting them.

And the n00dz, which are considered illegal content (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ohmy.gif)

[CharlotteWebb]

• Enable the profanity filter on the dictionary and thesaurus, if ya care. I didn't.

If ya think the only thing cuter than "little kids swearing" is "little kids swearing improperly", that is.

[lilburne]

Teach them how to be smart on-line and to look after their dox. Never reveal personal information to strangers and don't post it to websites. Keep their RL name off everything.

Give them a demo of pipl.com

[GlassBeadGame]

Go after web 2.0 content hosts who seek to exploit the immaturity and vulnerability of young people for their own traffic and/or financial gain.

[Zoloft]

Anyway, putting this Wikia-scrape business aside for the moment, what would a "typical" parent do in a situation like this, if this were their daughter? Some degree of childhood narcissism is natural, maybe even healthy, but I'd have to say this is a good deal beyond that. Even so, if enormous numbers of 12-year-old girls have webcams, and the people on 4chan's /b/ forum are determined to make them "famous" (well, at least the "lulzy" ones), what do you do? I should think that if you've already completely messed up on the whole responsible-parenting thing, nothing short of imprisoning the poor kid in a room without a computer in it (or at least no internet) until she grows up is going to keep her from doing this stuff.

Off the top of my head, and in no particular order;

• Don't allow them to have computers/laptops in their bedrooms. Have them in the family room where they're visible.
• Restrict their hours on-line to sane levels (and do the same for the TV!) There are software packages available for this and I happen to know - *coff* - that MacOS X has a built-in option to enable this.
• Give them their own account and let them know from the outset that you will be monitoring it at whim.
• Operate a URL whitelist. Yes, I know it's draconian but tough shit (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/happy.gif) Dem's the rules.
• Disable that webcam!
• Enable the ratings system for media (MacOS X again has it. Windoze likely does, too)
• Enable the profanity filter on the dictionary and thesaurus, if ya care. I didn't.
• Most importantly, show an interest in their on-line activities and show them you care. Make sure you have an environment in which they feel they can talk freely with you.
• Show them respect. Don't block *everything* but be sensible and be actively involved.
• Email whitelists for sending. Use them.
• Teach them how to be smart on-line and to look after their dox. Never reveal personal information to strangers and don't post it to websites. Keep their RL name off everything.
• IRC. Kill it.

My son is an adult now, and I agree with most of this list. He didn't get a PC in his room until he showed me he was responsible and mature in general - until them it was the PC in the living room, where he was open to view by Mom and Dad. I also monitored his communications periodically (and he knew I had the tech smarts to do so).

As he got much older, he was allowed to buy a system (50% his money, 50% mine) and use it in his room, but the packet log stayed in place (my network, my responsibility).

No whitelist or profanity filter. No ratings system. He knew that surfing certain types of content would lead to sanctions, and that they weren't 'optional' sanctions. Webcam not allowed until 18.

Aside from a few embarrassing missteps on FaceBook in high school, he did well.

[EricBarbour]

Go after web 2.0 content hosts who seek to exploit the immaturity and vulnerability of young people for their own traffic and/or financial gain.

Um, that would probably shut down 90% of them......