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Posted by: Disillusioned Lackey

For the RECORD

1. Durova muses on David http://brooklynrail.org/2008/06/express/nobodys-safe-in-cyber-space on her http://durova.blogspot.com/2008/06/david-shankbones-piece-in-brooklyn-rail.html
2. Durova (same day as no. 1) writes the http://durova.blogspot.com/2008/06/what-if-target-were-you.htmlspeaking of how she found a violent threat on a Wikimedia site, to Shankbone. http://durova.blogspot.com/2008/06/what-if-target-were-you.html
3. Durova complains about Brandt publishing her publicly published Facebook Friends. She suddenly alleges that someone has been threatening to throw acid in her face. She republishes Brandt's his defamatory Wikipedia Biography on her http://durova.blogspot.com/2008/06/durova-and-friends.html and again claims she's the victim of a violence-threatening stalker. On the podcast, he tells the outrageous lie that harassment was why she quit as Wikipedia administrator (not because she was forced to during an Arbcom "Trial" for abusive false accusations. BLOG - DUROVABLOG (Friday, June 13)

Anyone else smell bullshit a rat? Within one week, she goes from finding Shankbone threats online.......... to acid throwing rapist stalking victim? Humroo?

Normally, I wouldn't question a victim's words, but this is Durova. I know her personally to have made up outrageous lies (two, at least) to cause me trouble via a great libel-establishing situation on Wikipedia. One of those baldfaced lies was that I "harassed" her. I I know the woman to lie like it's to save her life. And over the past year, I've seen her to it to others: Again, and again, and again.

Her story of acid throwing rapist threats doesn't ring true. But then, not much of what she does, or says, or alleges seems to.

Posted by: Somey

Really? I might have to try to listen to that thing one of these days... I wonder if there's some sort of technical means of filtering out Shankers' voice completely, though? I'm worried that I won't be able to get the puke stains off the carpet.

Still, she actually said that?

Posted by: thekohser

I didn't remember her saying such a howler, and I just (cringe) listened again to her sections of the interview, and I did not hear that.

But, as we have learned from Durova's criteria for "giving misleading information to journalists", since she failed to explain why she is no longer an administrator, she has "flat-out lied" (as Jimbo would say) in this interview.

Greg

Posted by: dtobias

OK, what exactly did Shankbone do that pissed you off so much? With all the swirling drama that continually surrounds WP and WR and related things, I've managed to forget any specifics about that guy other than that he did lots of interviews and photos until he quit due to being (allegedly) harassed, but from your comments on many threads you seem to have developed quite the revulsion for him. What was his big crime?

----------------
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via http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/

Posted by: dogbiscuit

Initially he was quick to be offended when he came blundering in here, but the stalking and harassment he managed single-handedly were off the scale compared with most - all excused in his mind because of his "emotional breakdown" over people asking why his contributions to Wikipedia had to be so self-serving. I'm not sure I understood what his beef was with TFA as most of it appears to have happened outside of here or Wikipedia. It has to be bad if ED are prepared to tone it down...

Posted by: Disillusioned Lackey

Shankbone posted "spy screenshots" of a private chatboard on ED. With conversations discussing various WR users, Somey was concerned were moles from WP. Which some apparently were.

(or alternatively, Im correct in stating that all computers are accessible using special tools - probably "Infragard tools" that Wikipedia staffers probably have access to, being probably deputized as FBI infragard "insiders". See - http://csrc.nist.gov/organizations/fissea/2006-conference/FISSEA2006-Monday1400-Dowd.pdf. So that's my perfectly reasonable far-out theory. Otherwise, there is a real mole, which I rather doubt.

Using Infragard surveillance tools, they could spy on Somey's computer.

They've erased the full bio of my FBI SSA, who is a former US Marine, trained in information warfare (which is why Ive been ranting about it, and why Im picking on Durova for her obvious continuance of it). Per the missing bio - Hey guys, I know how you operate. ONE WORD: Screenshot. ( because Shankbone didn't invent them boys.

QUOTE(thekohser @ Wed 18th June 2008, 7:32am)

QUOTE

Still, she actually said that?

I didn't remember her saying such a howler, and I just (cringe) listened again to her sections of the interview, and I did not hear that.
Greg

Yeah, she did. She also claims on her blog that Greg is hanging on to old grudges about "something she said on a noticeboard which is now archived" hence presumably irrelevant. Which is bullshit. What she said firstly was that Greg lied to a journalist. When he asked her to retract that, she had him banned. Thats not irrelevant, and given his business is related to Wikis, he's hardly to be blamed for continuing to be pissed off at her.

She makes him out to be a stalker, whining that Greg should pay more mind to her family, wistfully noting that her father has now passed, and she wishes she had more time with him. I wonder if her father would be proud of her libelling people online, lying her butt off about it, and lying again, and then implying that the people are ill for being angry at her. She sucks.

Posted by: Disillusioned Lackey

Here is Durova, in all herhttp://durova.blogspot.com/2008/06/david-shankbones-piece-in-brooklyn-rail.html

QUOTE

I didn't ban Greg Kohs from Wikipedia. Jimbo Wales had banned Greg already months before I ever encountered the guy. It's a subject I usually don't discuss very much, because for the last 16 months I've been waiting for Greg to rethink his priorities.

How many times did Greg's kid leave a tooth underneath their pillows for the tooth fairy? How many PTA meetings did Greg miss?

Greg Kohs thinks I defamed him once on a noticeboard over a year ago on a discussion that's long since been archived. Nobody would care about if Greg didn't keep bringing it up. I didn't think I defamed him, and to be certain I contacted the Wikimedia Foundation's counsel, who was Brad Patrick then. I showed him my post and offered to retract. Brad Patrick didn't see any problem with what I had written.

What doesn't add up is why a fellow like Greg who's so sensitive about his own reputation would go around afterward in the way he does. Admitting to the Brooklyn Rail that he's put thong bikinis and coffee mugs and t-shirts on a website in order to mock me isn't the kind of thing that impresses people. I see stunts like that and wonder, if I were in a position to do business with the guy, would I really want to sign onto a deal with someone like that? How would he be spending the time that he ought to devote to the project? Would he hold a grudge if the deal didn't work out?

So where David went wrong is the sentence where he writes about my reaction ...feels it is serial harassment. Nope. I'm the expert on my feelings and I do not call Greg's behavior that word. Self-defeating, maybe. Greg's running for the Wikimedia Foundation's Board of Trustees right now and it isn't too hard to guess what impression his siteban and his vendetta have on most voters. I don't hold a particular grudge. If Greg would spend six months respecting his siteban by not evading it, and if he'd stop bashing Wikipedia around the Internet for half a year I'd welcome him back. It'd be a good idea if he'd take down those thong bikinis and the other silliness. He could have been unbanned long ago. Instead--well--for a fellow who's stated purpose is to run a business editing Wikipedia articles, Greg has been notably unsuccessful at it.

Clearly Durova went to the DOJ Wainstein school of semantic parsing™. No, she didn't ban Greg. She accused him of lying to AP reporter Brian Bergstein, while Jimbo had banned him (for the lame reason of wanting to start a business related to Wikipedia editing). Which (shades of Essjay) is goddamned serious stuff. Jimbo unbanned Greg, and Greg asked her to retract that statement. WHAT a mistake. Durova is simply NOT wrong. So JzG banned Greg, when Durova claimed that Greg's normal request for a retraction was "Harassment" or whatever contentious word she used to describe his request to have his name cleared.

As for her being stalked, Durova, without the fame of being, well, a defamer (and hystrionically abusive to boot), simply is not.that.interesting.of.a.person to attract such attention. True, stalkers can choose anyone at will. But she's lying folks. She usually is. I hope for her sake she never is stalked, because she cries wolf so often that no one will take her seriously if that day ever comes.

** Why diss Kenneth Wainstein? He testified before the US Congress on September 20, 2007, that the original intent of the FISA was not to protect US Citizens abroad (paraphrased - I believe his actual words were related to the applications not being outside the domestic United States - but same difference).

Well, Mr. Wainstein, I downloaded all the pre-and-immediately-post FISA House and Senate testimony from the Rutgers website, and yes, you are right, that was the application of the original FISA legislation. What you failed to mention in that testimony was that AG Bell and CIA Director Colby promised that follow-on legislation would indeed apply outside the United States, i.e. protecting US Citizens abroad. Colby noted that he was fine with that a judicial order would be required for surveillance projects, of what he then-called "positive intelligence gathering" using US Citizens Abroad for "targets" (hey, Durova - "What if you were the target?", ahem - think I found that funny?

Well I didn't, and scratch a sleeping Dragon (or Dragon 695, aka Prospero - just like me! Gads, WHAT a koinkidink! Dont you losers at the DOJ and FBI have better things to do that play such bullshit games? Like crying to a shrink or a priest about what you've done that you might have to answer to Congress for? WELL? I'm talking to YOU, boys!!! Why not just give up the crazy lady - no, not me, her, or both of them - and admit fault, just ONCE, hm?) - back to Kenneth Wainstein Assistant Attorney General, for National Security - he used what I will call "Durova parsing" to justify passing a law that stripped me of my Constitutional rights for one year - in fact ALL AMERICANS ABROAD, ALL 3.2 million plus of us - all VOTING PERSONS, Mr. Wainstein, and I know the ACA team So "that" is why I diss Ken Wainstein. Durova works in his organization, I strongly suspect - and her "Logic or lack thereof" is perfectly normal SOP. No, not SOB, SOP.

For all of you "out of the loop", Ive had my phone surveilled and my apartment entered, and this is reported to the local police, so this is serious stuff, and it apparently started on Wikipedia. Thats why Ive been making such outrageous claims. Its not a freakin hobby. Its my scary daily experience. And Durova knows damned well she and Slim are having their lameass spook asses held to the burner soon. And that is why all the hubub. They are trying (lamely) to create a reason for that they behave like lunatics online (and off, as it would appear). Claiming that they are harassed.... by (drumroll) "cyberterrorists!!!" COWABUNGA!!

Posted by: Disillusioned Lackey

Thus, in this strange and sad habiliment,
I will encounter with Andronicus,
And say I am Revenge, sent from below
To join with him and right his heinous wrongs.
Knock at his study, where, they say, he keeps,
To ruminate strange plots of dire revenge;
Tell him Revenge is come to join with him,
And work confusion on his enemies.

Posted by: thekohser

DL, would you provide a text transcript of her statement and an approximate time clock in the interview where it occurs? I didn't hear it. In fact, I didn't hear any explanation from her as to why she's no longer an administrator.

I'm not saying your other assessments of her are wrong, but we should be factual when attributing things to other people's spoken word, especially when it's recorded and published.

Greg

Posted by: wikiwhistle

There was a mole, who was removed. Why not use a thing called Occam's razor rather than resort to explaining things with superseekrit government technology? Will they be controlling our minds with rays next at the behest of Durova?

Posted by: Piperdown

is there anyone on WP with a high profile that isn't a psycho?

Posted by: Milton Roe

And here you see again the illustration that the only true sin in any society is defiance of authority. They all come down to that. For those with a special sense of entitlement, it's completely impossible to bear.

Posted by: Jon Awbrey

Take care of that carpet.

I think it really ties the room together.

Jon

Posted by: Milton Roe

This deserves its own thread, but personality disorders of one type or another are very common in society. At least 1% of people are remorseless sociopaths, if not outright psychopaths (depending on your definition) and it's even more if you believe these things are the mere tail ends of a narcissistic-spectrum disorder which extends from the simple delusion of person X who thinks he's proven all Einstein's theories wrong (not withstanding his lack of decent math skills or any advanced degree) to the full-blown type who believes that they never make moral mistakes, and hardly ever make mistakes in fact. These people have no real self-insight. They are children of age 3 emotionally, and never improve.

And god help you if you cross them and they happen to be in a position of power. They can make terrible and relentless enemies, and if they have an admixture of paranoia (not uncommon) they're all the worse. Paranoia and narcissism go hand in hand because the one can be used to explain the failings of the other. The narcissist asks subconsciously: if I'm practically-perfect and amazingly bold and smart, how come I'm not ruler of my own kingdom? Well, obviously the world is out to get me in some fashion, due to their recognition that I have the insight to bring the whole rotten place down!

These genes for this disorder survive because they are sometimes useful. One may even find narcissists running major corporations and in high positions in government (though usually not elected ones). They can also make excellent lackies and often spies, but do not make the mistake of firing one, because they've usually been collected and duplicating all the dirt on your organization for years, and they're just the kind of people who can threaten a really nasty employee lawsuit, using records to name names, dates, places, small accounting errors, and so on. Since no organization is perfect, one finds them going from job to job to job with undisclosed legal-settlements each time. And there is also a string of similar divorces.

If you'd like a little taste, consider Salinger's firing of SlimVirgin, in her incarnation as journalist-wanna-be. In her mind, that could not have been for incompetence. Thus, either a conspiracy of terrorists, or (aha!) Salinger had suffered from dementia for his last 10 years, and perhaps (we may infer) some pre-effects even before that. If your boss has great credentials, you have few recourses if he fires you and you can't blame yourself. Only a demented person would fire a practically perfect employee, unless coerced by the Dark Forces. And it took Slim years to get that into Salinger's unauthorized bio on WP. But she did it. Even death does not save you from the wrath of the narcissist.

Did I mention danger and time? People who kill their spouses almost always fit neatly into this category. Short of murder, the costly divorces of rich narcissists (think of the film The War of the Roses) are what give narcissistic divorce lawyers nices houses in the Hamptons. Roy Cohn didn't make all that money working for Nixon!

So quite frequently, it's not worth the time to fight one of these people, once you identify them. Don't hire them. Don't work for them. For godssake, stay away from venues where they have power, if you can. If you were suckered into it, find ways of disconnecting in ways that hurt the least.

Sometimes justice and outrage demands you do something about eggregious ones, but if, in your mind, you have the idea that you're going to "win," and have them admit error and/or gain self insight, forget it. Many imprisoned persons are raging narcissists. But you cannot punish a narcissist-- all you can do is HURT them. They learn nothing from it. So if you're on your crucade to de-fang on behalf of the next person in to be mauled, good luck. If you're in it to acheive a football or poker victory, you don't understand the game. This is not a person who will let you have the pot with a smile. They'll accuse you of cheating. They might shoot you. In the end, any poker chips you get won't be worth the emotional cost.

M

Posted by: guy

Lar?

Posted by: Milton Roe

Ah, but that's the thing. Lar is not terribly high profile, and does not OWN articles nor throw his weight around. Nobody hates him, and the reason for that is that he has yet to badly screw anybody over for petty, psycho, or personal sounding reasons. At least not that I can find.

And yes, he's extremely well-balanced. Despite my ribbing, he's my present template for what a decent WP admin and steward should be like. Golly, that sounds like asskissing and barnstar giving, but I'm no longer a part of that scene, so it's not.

Yes, I did suggest he was the real gov't spy on WP, but that's probably my own naive view of how good our clandestine ops are these days (or how important WP is). Probably, they really suck so much that they hire people like Slimmy and Durova, who run rampant in some public venue until it's obvious how unbalanced they are. And nobody at any level of government notices. Or cares.

You know, in the great scheme of things, Google is way more important in intel than WP, which is more of a propaganda tool like Radio-Free Europe (remember that?). So we probably all have exagerated ideas of how important WP is to The War on Terror©, and so does Wales, but what's new? The feds use Intellipedia (no connection to Wikipedia) when they need Wikis to do intra-agency synthetic work. A Wiki available to all sure beats a memo. The only problem with a Wiki is that it has no stamp to show you read it (like initially a memo), and are therefore responsible for knowing its content, as of so-and-so time, unless you made an edit. Bet the feds hate that. But even that is fixable.

I'm curious as to how much MediaWiki is being used out there. If all Apple employees had to download FireFox 3 yesterday so they could be beta testers, for example, do they all some some company Wikis where they can discuss and grouse about its problems? Inquiring minds want to know.

Clearly MicroSoft has nothing of the sort, regarding problems in their programs (The Wikipedia Wiki on the problems of Vista is better than any Wiki MS must have had on Longhorn for years and years). And another example from the Windows era: I just a problem with a corrupted OUTLOOK .dbx file, and I see that many of the tools available for dealing with it were written by Stephen Cochran, who was/is an MS-MVP for delevelopment of the product, and who will sell you DBXtract for $7. So why isn't/wasn't a tool like this, packaged with the product itself? Well, children, it's all part of the evil that is Microsoft. I dunno what they paid Cochran but I guess it wasn't enough. No FUIFV Tee-shirt for him.

Milt

Posted by: wikiwhistle

Lar, Neil, LessHorrid, Alison, probably lots of others. Lots of people like Sandy G. I believe.