Cirt revisited Options

[Herschelkrustofsky]

It's just the usual WP Jews-helping-Jews. What are you, antisemitic? I'll bet you're antisemitic.

No, I don't think so. I think it's more interesting than that. In fact, I think it has been an unusually interesting week. What we have seen is a general brawl erupting among admins over the cherished principle that the BLP policy only protects good people, not bad people, and that admins in good standing have a double-0 license to defame the bad people. This is being fought out in the Cirt case and at the AE board, with Will Beback and Jehochman (among others) squaring off against Scott Mac and Lar. I think the outcome of this battle will have lasting and profound consequences for WP.

[Doc glasgow]

It's just the usual WP Jews-helping-Jews. What are you, antisemitic? I'll bet you're antisemitic.

No, I don't think so. I think it's more interesting than that. In fact, I think it has been an unusually interesting week. What we have seen is a general brawl erupting among admins over the cherished principle that the BLP policy only protects good people, not bad people, and that admins in good standing have a double-0 license to defame the bad people. This is being fought out in the Cirt case and at the AE board, with Will Beback and Jehochman (among others) squaring off against Scott Mac and Lar. I think the outcome of this battle will have lasting and profound consequences for WP.

Since I'm lazy at research, I'm happy to have people point me to any problematic BLPs I should review.

[HRIP7]

Just for reference, these are the articles on Scientology, Scientologists (in particular Tom Cruise), Scientology opponents, and Scientology spoofs in Cirt's top 100.

If they're about Scientology opponents or Scientology spoofs, they'll generally be puffy; if they're related to Scientologists, they'll generally say their films are crappy.

858 - Project Chanology
518 - List of Scientologists
437 - Battlefield Earth (film)
402 - A Very Merry Unauthorized Children's Scientology P...
300 - The Thriving Cult of Greed and Power
299 - Trapped in the Closet (South Park)
288 - Xenu
272 - The Joy of Sect
250 - Tom Cruise: An Unauthorized Biography
248 - Operation Clambake
245 - Knight and Day
241 - Jason Beghe
180 - David Miscavige
170 - Cult Awareness Network
158 - Church of Scientology editing on Wikipedia
148 - Hell Is Other Robots
134 - Lions for Lambs
133 - Bowfinger
127 - Kaja Bordevich Ballo
127 - Paul Haggis
127 - The Profit
126 - Miles Fisher
120 - Scientology in popular culture
109 - Mark Bunker
105 - Hawthorne (TV series)
103 - Ali's Smile: Naked Scientology
102 - Tommy Davis (Scientology)
101 - The Way to Happiness
100 - Typewriter in the Sky
100 - Leo Ryan
97 - Old Dogs (film)
96 - Jessica Feshbach
95 - Religulous
89 - Jesus in Scientology
87 - Aaron Saxton
87 - New Village Leadership Academy
85 - The Bridge (2006 drama)
84 - Daryl Wine Bar and Restaurant (for Scientology connection see its AfD)
82 - Jose Peralta (for Scientology connection see this)
79 - ScienTOMogy
79 - Tom Cruise Purple
78 - Scientology
75 - John Carmichael (Scientology)
73 - Another Gospel
72 - Fight Against Coercive Tactics Network
71 - Sharron Angle
71 - Brother from the Same Planet
65 - Mace-Kingsley Ranch School
65 - Stephen A. Kent

231 - Outrageous Betrayal
209 - Est and The Forum in popular culture
204 - Semi-Tough
176 - Getting It: The Psychology of est
87 - Werner Erhard (book)
73 - Werner Erhard

Generally, anyone will be hard pressed to find an article on anything to do with Scientology in Wikipedia that Cirt has not edited and on their watchlist.

A good starting point for BLP review is Category:American Scientologists.

[Jagärdu]

It's just the usual WP Jews-helping-Jews. What are you, antisemitic? I'll bet you're antisemitic.

No, I don't think so. I think it's more interesting than that. In fact, I think it has been an unusually interesting week. What we have seen is a general brawl erupting among admins over the cherished principle that the BLP policy only protects good people, not bad people, and that admins in good standing have a double-0 license to defame the bad people. This is being fought out in the Cirt case and at the AE board, with Will Beback and Jehochman (among others) squaring off against Scott Mac and Lar. I think the outcome of this battle will have lasting and profound consequences for WP.

Yeah I don't think this has anything to do with Judaism ... indeed I'm a bit perplexed by the suggestion. As far as I can remember Wikipedia has always functioned in the fashion Herschelkrustofsky describes. Most admins and editors have either been turning a blind eye to or have been actively supporting the policy violations at entries of "bad people". Minor eruptions break out when people finally start objecting but usually these dissipate without much meaningful difference. I'm hoping this time, in this context, something more lasting will come out of all this, but it is very difficult to figure out if there is enough momentum here.

[Peter Damian]

I think the outcome of this battle will have lasting and profound consequences for WP.

I hope it's like that Tarantino film where each side lavishes extensive firepower on the other, and everyone gets killed.

[HRIP7]

A good starting point for BLP review is Category:American Scientologists.

The first one in that category is Bob Adams (American football) (T-H-L-K-D). Readable prose size: 1682 words; mentions of Scientology on the page: 94.

[HRIP7]

Bali ultimate has nominated List of Scientologists (T-H-L-K-D) for deletion.

BLPCAT violations galore.

[thekohser]

I hope it's like that Tarantino film where each side lavishes extensive firepower on the other, and everyone gets killed.

Is that a death threat, Peter? I think you just threatened to kill Jimbo, or at the very least, that you look forward to his being shot!

You are a horrible, horrible person! ! ! ! ! !

[Doc glasgow]

I think the outcome of this battle will have lasting and profound consequences for WP.

I hope it's like that Tarantino film where each side lavishes extensive firepower on the other, and everyone gets killed.

Don't tell me Tarantino is a Scientologist too!

And why do you want me dead?

[HRIP7]

Here is another interesting little article: Prolexic Technologies (T-H-L-K-D).

According to this BBC report, their clients include Visa and Mastercard.

This is what the Wikipedia article looks like right now.

[HRIP7]

Here is another interesting little article: Prolexic Technologies (T-H-L-K-D).

They are quoted in this BBC report, commenting on the recent troubles of Visa and Mastercard in connection with Wikileaks.

This is what their Wikipedia article looks like right now.

(That was supposed to be an edit to the previous post; I am not sure whether they actually work for Visa and Mastercard, or whether they were just being quoted as experts.)

This post has been edited by HRIP7: Sat 18th December 2010, 5:47pm

[lilburne]

Bali ultimate has nominated List of Scientologists (T-H-L-K-D) for deletion.

BLPCAT violations galore.

For fuck's sake they've got the 21yo Princess FruFru on that list. What the hell has she ever done to warrant a wiki page?

[Milton Roe]

It's just the usual WP Jews-helping-Jews. What are you, antisemitic? I'll bet you're antisemitic.

No, I don't think so. I think it's more interesting than that. In fact, I think it has been an unusually interesting week. What we have seen is a general brawl erupting among admins over the cherished principle that the BLP policy only protects good people, not bad people, and that admins in good standing have a double-0 license to defame the bad people. This is being fought out in the Cirt case and at the AE board, with Will Beback and Jehochman (among others) squaring off against Scott Mac and Lar. I think the outcome of this battle will have lasting and profound consequences for WP.

Yes, you can read it that way. But at the root, it turns out that a lot of the BAD people are BAD due to being supposed antisemites (Mel Gibson) or people working against Israeli causes, and so on.

In opposition, we have a cabal of editors who got to where they are, by either editing on Jewish bios, or on the pro-Israel side of that conflict, ala Jpgordon, Jayjg, Jehochman, Orangemarlin, MONGO, Slrubenstein, Ryulong, El C--- a long list of pricks or POV warriors on politics--- and their fellow-travelers who may or may not be Jewish-- SlimVirgin, Cirt, and Berlet-in-the-old-days before he blew a gasket (Berlet is certainly not Jewish, but spends his life calling Republicans Nazis and generally pretending to be one).

These people get a Free Pass to do whatever they want to do on other WP articles. If Cirt has a thing againt Scientologists, she's given the Free Pass on THAT, because of her previously politically correct work on Jewish issues. And possibly because there's a modest amount of evidence that Scientolgists and Jews don't get along that well. If you read the WP scientology article, you'll find that the Jews criticize Scientologists for playing the Nazi card. How dare they draw parallels? The Jews themselves never compare later minor stuff to the holocaust.

In 1997, an open letter to then-German Chancellor Helmut Kohl, published as a newspaper advertisement in the International Herald Tribune, drew parallels between the "organized oppression" of Scientologists in Germany, and the treatment of Jews in 1930s' Nazi Germany.[70][71] The letter was signed by Dustin Hoffman, Goldie Hawn and a number of other Hollywood celebrities and executives.[71][72] Commenting on the matter, a spokesman for the U.S. Department of State said that Scientologists were discriminated against in Germany, but condemned the comparisons to the Nazis' treatment of Jews as extremely inappropriate, as did a United Nations Special Rapporteur.[72][73]

Say, I wonder who added the above paragraph? Sure seems a Jewish-centered world (encyclopedia) if it devotes a whole paragraph in an article about another religion, to a matter like THAT.

It is very much the same situation as Mantanmoreland being given the free pass to do dastardly economic work (or at least unchecked POV work), due to his work on the Martin Luther King work with Slim, regarding the antisemitism of Martin Luther. That allowed him to get away with a lot, for a very long time. Yes, Mantan happened to be Jewish, but it would have been the same if hadn't been, like Berlet. The key is not that you're genetically-Jewish on WP, but that you edit as one. If you can meatpuppet on the politically correct Jewish view, then you're in like Sammy Davis, Jr., Woopi Goldberg, and Madonna are "in" in Hollywood.

Consider Lyndon LaRouche. Consider SlimVirgin's work on the Death of Jeremiah Duggan. After all this time, HK, don't you really know why LaRouche has been dragged over the coals at WP, and you yourself banned for defending him? Don't you really get it? It's got nothing to do with the fact that LaRouche is a wacko. It's got everything to do with the fact that the Wikipedia power clique doesn't like him. And THAT is only marginally related to his ideas on the economy.

[HRIP7]

Jose Peralta (T-H-L-K-D) is in some ways like the Kenneth Dickson puff-piece.

This is the Scientology connection.

The article, completely revised and expanded by Cirt in time for the election, is a glowing tribute, complete with pull quote. For all I know Peralta may be a wonderful man, but here are some of the sources the article does not use:

Smith: Is Jose Peralta really all that much better than Hiram Monserrate?

Assemblyman Jose Peralta scored $500,000 in taxpayer funds for inactive nonprofit

[HRIP7]

Say, I wonder who added the above paragraph? Sure seems a Jewish-centered world (encyclopedia) if it devotes a whole paragraph in an article about another religion, to a matter like THAT.

I don't wish to detract from your argument, but that was me.

[It's the blimp, Frank]

Just for reference, these are the articles on Scientology, Scientologists (in particular Tom Cruise), Scientology opponents, and Scientology spoofs in Cirt's top 100.

I have a feeling that Will Beback is not considering most of those articles to be Scientology-related when he posts his calculations here.

[Jagärdu]

Just for reference, these are the articles on Scientology, Scientologists (in particular Tom Cruise), Scientology opponents, and Scientology spoofs in Cirt's top 100.

I have a feeling that Will Beback is not considering most of those articles to be Scientology-related when he posts his calculations here.

Maybe, or maybe by counting the sheer volume of robotic edits Cirt makes to articles in between his POV pushing makes it seem like he's not editing Scientology related articles all that much. But let's be clear, any real editing he does to an entry is in the Scientology arena and nothing else. When someone thinks he's departed from it, in the end, it is discovered that there is in fact a Scientology connection after all. He's an SPA through and through, just one that also does monkey work on the side to make it look like he isn't.

[Herschelkrustofsky]

But at the root, it turns out that a lot of the BAD people are BAD due to being supposed antisemites (Mel Gibson) or people working against Israeli causes, and so on.

In opposition, we have a cabal of editors who got to where they are, by either editing on Jewish bios, or on the pro-Israel side of that conflict, ala Jpgordon, Jayjg, Jehochman, Orangemarlin, MONGO, Slrubenstein, Rylulong, El C--- a long list of pricks or POV warriors on politics--- and their fellow-travelers who may or may not be Jewish-- SlimVirgin, Cirt, and Berlet-in-the-old-days before he blew a gasket (Berlet is certainly not Jewish, but spends his life calling Republicans Nazis and generally pretending to be one).

These people get a Free Pass to do whatever they want to do on other WP articles. If Cirt has a thing againt Scientologists, she's given the Free Pass on THAT, because of her previously politically correct work on Jewish issues. And possibly because there's a modest amount of evidence that Scientolgists and Jews don't get along that well.

I must respectfully disagree. Every Jewish conspiracy theory, including yours, turns out in the end to be a smokescreen to divert the investigator from the real conspiracy. They are all made plausible by demonstrating that there are a few bad apples who are actually Jewish (except on Wikipedia, who knows? Maybe Jayjg is a plump, middle-aged, fantasy-ridden Presbyterian woman who is hoping to cozy up to some rough and exotic young Jewish POV-pushers.) But look at the history of conspiracizing. Go back to the middle ages, where the oligarchy mastered the art of protecting its privilege through all kinds of cloak-and-dagger stuff involving masons, religious orders, you name it. It was a common tactic to hire some Jewish front men, let them do the dirty work and then let them take the rap (see Hofjuden.)

For a super-insightful look at real-world conspiracies, read The Bravo by James Fenimore Cooper.

[Herschelkrustofsky]

Consider Lyndon LaRouche. Consider SlimVirgin's work on the Death of Jeremiah Duggan. After all this time, HK, don't you really know why LaRouche has been dragged over the coals at WP, and you yourself banned for defending him? Don't you really get it? It's got nothing to do with the fact that LaRouche is a wacko. It's got everything to do with the fact that the Wikipedia power clique doesn't like him. And THAT is only marginally related to his ideas on the economy.

Allow me to let you in on a bit of LaRouche lore. Back in the 1970s, some LaRouche investigators went undercover and paid a visit to Canon West of Cathedral of Saint John the Divine, New York (T-H-L-K-D). Thanks to WP's incestuous relationship to Google, I just learned that there is a fictional character in novels based on Canon West, who turns out to be an Episcopal Canon slash spook. The real Canon West was also a big wheel in the Sovereign Military Order of Malta (T-H-L-K-D) (yes, the same one mentioned in The Maltese Falcon (1941 film) (T-H-L-K-D).

It should be noted that the real power elite of the US are Episcopalians, not Jews, and the creme de la creme attend the Cathedral of Saint John the Divine. At any rate, the intrepid investigators met with Canon West, posing as anti-LaRouche journalists. Canon West's tongue began to wag, and he carried on at some length about the threat posed by LaRouche. However, when asked how he intended to counter the threat, he said his various organizations had no intention of doing so. Instead, they planned to "send the Jews after them." By this, he apparently meant the ADL, which is a topic that deserves a thread of its own -- suffice it so say that for the ADL, fighting bigotry is merely a combination cover story and fundraising gimmick. Some accuse them of a long-running extortion campaign against Jews, by scaring the pants off them with tales of anti-Semites under the bed, and then collecting protection money.

[HRIP7]

Just for reference, these are the articles on Scientology, Scientologists (in particular Tom Cruise), Scientology opponents, and Scientology spoofs in Cirt's top 100.

I have a feeling that Will Beback is not considering most of those articles to be Scientology-related when he posts his calculations here.

Will only looked at the top 10, not the top 100; and among the top 10, he missed either Trapped in the Closet (South Park) (T-H-L-K-D) or The Thriving Cult of Greed and Power (T-H-L-K-D)

This post has been edited by HRIP7: Sat 18th December 2010, 10:27pm