Can Jayjg be stopped?, Middle-aged management guy, or wacky teenager? Options

Paid lobbyist? Who does he work for? What is his real name? What city is he posting from? Any clues?

This post has been edited by Heat:

Mr. Brandt believes he is from Williamsburg, NY, USA, works in management, and is in his 40s.

Mr. Brandt believes he is from Williamsburg, NY, USA, works in management, and is in his 40s.

He sure edits wikipedia a lot for someone with a full-time job.

Mr. Brandt believes he is from Williamsburg, NY, USA, works in management, and is in his 40s.

I assume Brandt got the "works in management, and is in his 40s" info from Jay himself, as that was what he stated during arb.com elections, Jan. 2006:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arb...didates_by_jguk



Brandt states that Jay is from from Williamsburg, NY, USA(?). I don´t know where he got that from, but googeling brings:
http://www.ynetnews.com/Ext/App/TalkBack/C...3161625,00.html


And very few on Wikipedia have been so careful covering their identity as Jay. You will be banned for just asking if he is payed to edit Wikipedia...no kidding. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ph34r.gif)

Paid lobbyist? Who does he work for? What is his real name? What city is he posting from? Any clues?

My data suggest he works from his home, situated outside Toronto, Canada. Likely in the vicinity of Ajax. I'm 99% certain he made this "oops!" anon edit and quick revert back in 2005.

The IP you see (69.196.8.45) seems to be unassigned currently, but as recently as a few months ago, it mapped to Thornhill, Ontario, a northern sector of Toronto. Then last year, Jayjg appears to have relocated east of the city.

Paid lobbyist? Who does he work for? What is his real name? What city is he posting from? Any clues?

My data suggest he works from his home, situated outside Toronto, Canada. Likely in the vicinity of Ajax. I'm 99% certain he made this "oops!" anon edit and quick revert back in 2005.

The IP you see (69.196.8.45) seems to be unassigned currently, but as recently as a few months ago, it mapped to Thornhill, Ontario, a northern sector of Toronto. Then last year, Jayjg appears to have relocated east of the city.

I also had an inkling that he was based near Toronto, Canada. There were some other coincidences that suggested this, but there was no solid evidence.

This post has been edited by anon1234:

There were some other coincidences that suggested this, but there was no solid evidence.

I once saw him wearing a Maple Leafs jersey while drinking a bottle of Molson's, but I just figured he was celebrating St. Patrick's Day a little early.

I somehow would have trusted a few links more than Somey´s sighting of him in a "Maple Leafs jersey while drinking a bottle of Molson's, " (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)


This post has been edited by The Adversary:

I'm 99% certain he made this "oops!" anon edit and quick revert back in 2005.

He'd have deleted the talk page and restored it without that edit.

Last time I checked, he seems not to edit on the Jewish sabbath and festivals, so he's an orthodox Jew. A little sophisticated analysis should confirm which time zone he's in.

quote:
"I also had an inkling that he was based near Toronto, Canada. There were some other coincidences that suggested this, but there was no solid evidence."
Links, please!

IP address: 74.108.30.192.
Reverse DNS: CPE000c4141a0d3-CM000a7369bd22.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com
Geolocation: Toronto, Ontario.

At first, I gave the odds of it being Jayjg's IP at roughly 2:1 in favor. The coincidences appeared meaningful but I came to doubt their validity after learning that Jayjg was "known" to be located in NYC. After learning that Jayjg himself is the only source of evidence of his linkage to NYC and that there are others who believe Jayjg is located in Toronto, Canada, I have renewed semi-confidence in my original suspicions.

Last time I checked, he seems not to edit on the Jewish sabbath and festivals, so he's an orthodox Jew. A little sophisticated analysis should confirm which time zone he's in.

I correlated that evidence some time ago and it fits with his being in the North American Eastern Time Zone (GMT-05:00.) There are many major cities in this time zone including both New York City and Toronto, Canada.

UPDATE: If Jayjg has a dynamic IP then it is likely the suspected IP I listed above is of historical interest only as it isn't especially fresh.

Here is Jayjg's first few months on Wikipedia, its buried in the history of User_talk:Jayjg/Archive_8 for some reason. I don't see any clues to his identity though.

On a side note, Danny's AOL ID is "[redacted]".

Here is Jayjg's first few months on Wikipedia, its buried in the history of User_talk:Jayjg/Archive_8 for some reason. I don't see any clues to his identity though.

On a side note, Danny's AOL ID is "LITTLE BOOTS".

Just a friendly reminder, the point of the WR isn't to harass people.... it's for constructive discussion not a "I hate you so I'm going to harass you" forum. Harassing / the intent to harass Danny without disclosing your full identity is in violation of US Law (thanks Daniel for pointing that out). Danny isn't evil, he's a human being just like the rest of us..... please try and be nice.

On the other hand, what is with the attempts to "track" people down. In the real world we call it stalking..... it's generally seen as a crime. Does it really matter if you know where a person lives or not? One can very easily use proxies to mask their location, it basically ruins geoIP as a detection method.

I'm 99% certain he made this "oops!" anon edit and quick revert back in 2005.

He'd have deleted the talk page and restored it without that edit.

Today, yes. But did he have that authority/audacity back in September of 2005?

Just a friendly reminder, the point of the WR isn't to harass people.... it's for constructive discussion not a "I hate you so I'm going to harass you" forum. Harassing / the intent to harass Danny without disclosing your full identity is in violation of US Law (thanks Daniel for pointing that out). Danny isn't evil, he's a human being just like the rest of us..... please try and be nice.

I wasn't recommending that people actually contact Danny, let alone harass him. It was just something strange that popped out on the page. I have redacted it from my original comment, I suggest you do the same in your quotation of my original comment.

On the other hand, what is with the attempts to "track" people down. In the real world we call it stalking..... it's generally seen as a crime. Does it really matter if you know where a person lives or not? One can very easily use proxies to mask their location, it basically ruins geoIP as a detection method.

There is a significant legal difference between uncovering someone identity and stalking.

Jayjg is one of the few users whom we haven't yet identified. Jayjg himself engages in similar online investigations of mysterious identities that catch his attention: User:Jayjg/Mystery

I can now add that someone pointed me to a third line of independent evidence that solidly links Jayjg to Toronto, Canada. This time the information is from early 2006. The IP is near identical to the one I gave above in that it geo-resolves to Toronto, Canada and it gives up in a R-DNS query an address that terminates in "*.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com."

I'm 99% certain he made this "oops!" anon edit and quick revert back in 2005.

He'd have deleted the talk page and restored it without that edit.

Today, yes. But did he have that authority/audacity back in September of 2005?

Jayjg granted "checkuser" rights:
10:10, 12 November 2005 Datrio (Talk | contribs) changed group membership for User:Jayjg@enwiki from sysop to sysop, checkuser

Jayjg granted "oversight" rights:
13:34, 29 May 2006 Oscar (Talk | contribs) changed group membership for User:Jayjg@enwiki from checkuser, sysop to checkuser, sysop, oversight

This post has been edited by anon1234:

On the other hand, what is with the attempts to "track" people down. In the real world we call it stalking..... it's generally seen as a crime. Does it really matter if you know where a person lives or not? One can very easily use proxies to mask their location, it basically ruins geoIP as a detection method.

Because admins need to have accountability for their actions.

On the other hand, what is with the attempts to "track" people down. In the real world we call it stalking..... it's generally seen as a crime. Does it really matter if you know where a person lives or not? One can very easily use proxies to mask their location, it basically ruins geoIP as a detection method.

Because admins need to have accountability for their actions.

Bingo. I'm convinced that 99% of the abuses seen on Wikipedia, both on the part of admins and vandals, would evaporate the same day folks began attaching their names to their actions. It's no coincidence that the worst abuses take place at the hands of those who work the hardest to remain anonymous. Accountability is key.

Just a friendly reminder, the point of the WR isn't to harass people....

Just what is the point of WR, anyway? I was under the impression it existed just to feed me easy straight lines, but now I'm not so sure anymore...

it's for constructive discussion not a "I hate you so I'm going to harass you" forum. Harassing / the intent to harass Danny without disclosing your full identity is in violation of US Law... On the other hand, what is with the attempts to "track" people down. In the real world we call it stalking..... it's generally seen as a crime...

I'm afraid the insistence on calling it "stalking" and "harassment" probably just makes it worse, though. Once you've accused your opponent of the worst thing he's ever likely to do, what does he have to lose by actually doing it?

Remember, we don't allow posting of street addresses, phone numbers, private e-mail addresses, things of that nature. (Don't all try it at once...) And please refer to this post and maybe this one, as I don't care to go over it again at the moment.

Does it really matter if you know where a person lives or not? One can very easily use proxies to mask their location, it basically ruins geoIP as a detection method.

In Jayjg's case, it probably doesn't matter. Frankly, I doubt we'll ever figure out who he is unless he tells us. He's too careful... He's like a ghost, slipping in and out of the shadows with no more footprint than a wisp of smoke... And you're right, ever since the whole Hivemind thing started, there's probably at least a dozen private co-located proxy machines out there for folks like Slimmy and Jayjg to remote into, not associated with any domain or DNS entity whatsoever, just sitting there in enormous virtual server farms all over the globe - all expertly configured for maximum anonymity protection. (Pretty cool, actually!)

Jayjg is one of the few users whom we haven't yet identified. Jayjg himself engages in similar online investigations of mysterious identities that catch his attention: User:Jayjg/Mystery

Who was he trying to finger there, User:Grace_Note? I had no idea. He used to have an account here, didn't he? Before my time...

The fact is, of all the "checkuser" admins, Jayjg is by far the single most often-accused of misusing his feature access for non-kosher purposes, and almost certainly for good reason. I still don't think we're ever going to identify him without some sort of deus ex machina, but it's just inevitable that people would want to know who he is.

Of course, if he turns out to be Brian Peppers, people here are gonna be pissed! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/mad.gif)

Jayjg was promoted to admin in Sept. 2004. Few, if any, of those promoted to admins at that time got that many "Oppose" votes: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title...2828.2F8.2F4.29

In spite of this, Jimbo appoints him to the arb.com in July 2005. There had been arb.com elections half a year earlier, but nobody from the "waiting-list" in that election was promoted, instead Jimbo choose to promote a rather controversial admin; Jayjg. There was a lot of talk about it at the time, people did not see that what Jay had done on Wikipedia merited such a promotion. Most seem to think that there were some off-Wikipedia reason as to why Jimbo promoted him. (Same as when Kelly Martin was promoted to arb.com)

Paid lobbyist? Who does he work for? What is his real name? What city is he posting from? Any clues?

Did a bunch of research looking for topic areas where Jayjg is abnormally knowledgeable. This means that I had to filter out the ethnic conflict and discrimination topics that are the favorite time wasters over at Wikipedia. What was left was a lot of Jewish topics, which isn't a surprise. I filtered out the general Judaism topics to see what stood out.

After a while the pattern become obvious. Jayjg has very specific knowledge and interest in Chabad-Lubavitch, a large branch of Hasidic Judaism. I say this because of Jayjg's attention to the following articles (and his avoidance of topics not of relevance to Hasidic Judaism):

• Kabbalah
• Moshe Chaim Luzzatto (an important figure in Kabbalah)
• Chabad-Lubavitch (customs derived in part from Kabbalah, branch of Hasidic Judaism, based near Williamsburg, Brooklyn)
• Menachem Mendel Schneersohn (Chabad-Lubavitch Rebbe, close to Yechiel Michel Epstein)
• Menachem Mendel Schneerson (Chabad-Lubavitch Rebbe, controversial links to Jewish Messiah)
• Jewish Messiah (controversially linked to Menachem Mendel Schneerson)
• Jesus (relevant to Jewish Messiah)
• Halakha
• Shulchan_Arukh (an important Halakha text)
• Yosef Karo (composed the Shulchan_Arukh)
• Shulchan Aruch HaRav (commentaries on the Shulchan_Arukh, important in Hasidic Judaism)
• Aruch HaShulchan (an illusion to the Shulchan_Arukh)
• Yechiel Michel Epstein (composed the Aruch HaShulchan, close to Menachem Mendel Schneersohn)
• Mishnah Berurah (a study of the Shulchan_Arukh)
• Yisrael Meir Kagan (composed the Mishnah Berurah)

What also stood out is that Jayjg rarely contributes new articles or sources. He prefers to edit war on the controversial articles, fight off vandals, and do minor clean ups on the topics he's genuinely interested in (such as those above.) Strange.

If Jayjg is a paid staffer of a lobby group and uses his permissions to persecute critics of Israel it would make the essjay scandal pale in comparison.

I highly doubt that Jayjg is paid. He's just an edit warrior on the controversial who has the admin bit. The biggest issue with Jayjg is his tendency to not contribute sources or new material in general, instead he falls back on simplistic and aggravating revert-based edit warring often progressing to a complete breakdown of WP:AGF. (The Chabad-Lubavitch branch of Judaism is now a strong supporter of Israel and takes a distinctly hard-line approach as described here: Haredim_and_Zionism#Chabad-Lubavitch.) - per Guy's comments.

This post has been edited by Somey:

If Jayjg is a paid staffer of a lobby group and uses his permissions to persecute critics of Israel it would make the essjay scandal pale in comparison.

Let's just be clear: if Jayjg is a paid lobbyist for anyone while operating in a position of extreme, unbridled power at Wikipedia, then that is a big deal.

Chabad-Lubavitch, eh? I wonder if the appearance and/or favorable treatment of User:David_Spart, a follower of Chabad Messianism, might not be a coincidence, then...?

In these diffs, "Spart" repeatedly blanks various warnings left by his perceived "nemesis," User:PinchasC (an admin):

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=110920885
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=110922240
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=110925252
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=110926191
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=110927621

One would think ol' Sparty's on the Road to Block-land, but then Jayjg shows up and says he'll "try to help out":
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=110928539

PinchasC quickly decides that discretion is the better part of valor, and blanks his own warnings!
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=110982196

And next thing y'know, Sparty joins the Keep Brandt Brigade, and he's off on a nut-job rampage.

Thanks a LOT, Jayjg... As if you hadn't done enough to deserve the extra scrutiny! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/mad.gif)

Chabad-Lubavitch, eh? I wonder if the appearance and/or favorable treatment of User:David_Spart, a follower of Chabad Messianism, might not be a coincidence, then...?

In case you are curious, the other significant contributors to the general Chabad-Lubavitch topic area are: User:IZAK (most prolific contributor by far), User:Jfdwolff (who nominated Jayjg for adminship), and User:Fintor.

The Chabad-Lubavitch branch of Judaism is now a strong supporter of Israel and takes a distinctly hard-line approach as described here: Haredim_and_Zionism#Chabad-Lubavitch.

That's a gross distortion. Chassidim in general deny the validity of the State of Israel on theological grounds (Jews should wait until the Messiah comes). Lubavitch aren't exempt from that view, though they don't emphasise it in the way that the Satmar or Belzer Chassidim do. On the other hand, they of course support the rights of individual Jews to practise their religion and to live in Biblically significant places like Jerusalem, which can be misconstrued as support for the State of Israel.

The Chabad-Lubavitch branch of Judaism is now a strong supporter of Israel and takes a distinctly hard-line approach as described here: Haredim_and_Zionism#Chabad-Lubavitch.

That's a gross distortion. Chassidim in general deny the validity of the State of Israel on theological grounds (Jews should wait until the Messiah comes). Lubavitch aren't exempt from that view, though they don't emphasise it in the way that the Satmar or Belzer Chassidim do. On the other hand, they of course support the rights of individual Jews to practise their religion and to live in Biblically significant places like Jerusalem, which can be misconstrued as support for the State of Israel.

Sorry about that. It was late and I was being sloppy. I understand quite well the Chassidim position, but I was noting in particular the distinct views of the last Lubavitcher Rebbe. I'm not even sure it is relevant, as most people make up their own minds and the last Rebbe passed away some time ago, I just got carried away with the CL stuff once I got into it.

This post has been edited by anon1234:

The Chabad-Lubavitch branch of Judaism is now a strong supporter of Israel and takes a distinctly hard-line approach as described here: Haredim_and_Zionism#Chabad-Lubavitch.

That's a gross distortion. Chassidim in general deny the validity of the State of Israel on theological grounds (Jews should wait until the Messiah comes). Lubavitch aren't exempt from that view, though they don't emphasise it in the way that the Satmar or Belzer Chassidim do. On the other hand, they of course support the rights of individual Jews to practise their religion and to live in Biblically significant places like Jerusalem, which can be misconstrued as support for the State of Israel.

Its amazing the things you learn on WR

Its amazing the things you learn on WR

And it's reliable info (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

ICQ Account using the nickname Jayjg. Can't find much more information on it, but its old enough to have been created in the 2004 time frame.

[Removed blog posting as I think it was someone impersonating Jayjg.]

This post has been edited by anon1234:

[Removed blog posting as I think it was someone impersonating Jayjg.]

Or maybe Jayjg has actually been trying to impersonate the guy on ICQ the whole time!

I'll bet his entire Wikipedia career is one big scam, to try and embarrass just this one guy...

I seriously need a vacation.

[Removed blog posting as I think it was someone impersonating Jayjg.]

It turns out that Jayjg has a number of other accounts at various internet discussion sites:

"Communion" Message Board

Account #1: Jayjg (July 2000 - October 2002)
Account #2: Jayjg613 (September 2002 - March 18, 2004)
Posts: Google Search: Jayjg site:p078.ezboard.com, Google Search: jayjg613 site:p078.ezboard.com
Preferred forums: "Catholic/Jewish Discussion"

These accounts are on a privately run Jewish/Catholicism interfaith message board. Here is a characteristic post: Re: From a Jewish perspective, is Heaven earned? You'll note he mentions "Maimonides" (edited by Jayjg on WP), "Moshe Chaim Luzzatto" (edited by Jayjg on WP), and "Derech Hashem" (edited by Jayjg on WP).

BeliefNet.Com Message Board

Account: jayjg613 (August 2003 - October 2004)
Preferred forum: Messianic Judaism Debate
Posts: Google Search: jayjg613 site:beliefnet.com

It's another interfaith forum. Similar topics as the above. Some of the posts are extremely Wikipedia-like, such as this post of Jayjg613 from July 2004:

And I've asked before what souce you have which supports that view. You've mentioned before that you found one, what is it? Have you asked any Rabbis whether this is permitted?

I'm done with this topic for the time being, time for someone else to take over if they are so inclined.

As far as I can tell every single one of his namespace edits prior to becoming an editor were on Judaism, Anti-Zionism, Jesus, Israel or related topic. Either he has no interests at all outside of Judaism and related Jewish issues or he has another account to deal with non-Jewish topics. This means he hasn't left any clues as to his identity other than perhaps his initials. No edits in regards to favourite tv shows, places he's been, books he's read (outside of Jewish topics), where he grew up, his business activity etc. Whenever he edits outside of Jewish topics its either to assist an ally who his having trouble - eg SlimVirgin with Gillian McKeith or he's editing about Jewish/Israeli refeerences in non-Jewish/Israeli articles.

He could just be an incredibly boring person - a religious fundamentalist who has no life or thoughts outside of his faith - or he uses more than one account for the purposes of segregation (which is allowed) in order to deliberately make himself harder to identify.

jayjg613

Jon513

Attention to detail is all-important. The number 613 has mystical significance to orthodox Jews, but I doubt that 513 does.

I wouldn't completely discount this link. WordBomb has brought up Jon513 before and so have others. When people create new identities they often just vary their existing ones -- thus Jon instead of Jay and 513 instead of 613 (from the 613_mitzvot). It sounds very likely if it was infact a Jon behind Jayjg. We already know for a fact that Jayjg likes to follow SlimVirgin around. No conclusive proof yet, but I wouldn't completely discount it.

2) The link to Canada isn't based on anything Jayjg has said online but on a dubious IP catch by Wordbomb whose method of circumstantial evidence has also placed SlimVirgin in a different location than commonly thought. Has Wordbomb falsified his method or used some sort of control to determine his accuracy?

There are four separate lines of evidence from four separate individuals, only one of which is WordBomb, that suggest that he is based at least part of the time, or is using a series of proxies, in the Toronto, Canada area going back as far as mid-2005.

These are very speculative, but wot the hecque, may be worth following up ...

• Jay => Toronto Blue Jays.
• JG => J.G. Ballard, who Jayjg quotes on his user page.

Of course, they could just be thrown out there as foils.

Jonny (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

This post has been edited by Jonny Cache:

These are very speculative, but wot the hecque, may be worth following up ...

• Jay => Toronta Blue Jays
• JG => J.G. Ballard, that Jayjg mentions or quotes on his user page

Jonny (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

I don't think that the explanation JayJG gives on his user page is true. He uses the username too frequently elsewhere. I think it is similar to a Backronym, the explanation was obviously made up after the fact. JayJG shows no interest what so ever in birds, baseball or science fiction writers. Also, who uses the first two initials of a science fiction writer as the last two letters of their username? Does that make sense to you? It seems highly improbable to me.

I think he just did a search for "JG" and picked the first acceptable candidate.

These are very speculative, but wot the hecque, may be worth following up ...

• Jay => Toronta Blue Jays.
• JG => J.G. Ballard, who Jayjg mentions on his user page.

Of course, they could just be thrown out there as foils.

Jonny (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

For someone supposedly interested in JG Ballard it's interesting that Jay has never once edited that article. He's also never edited the Toronto Blue Jays article.

The reference to the bird and the author were not added to his user page until January 10, 2006 about a year and a half after joining wikipedia, a little over a year after becoming an admin and several months after being appointed to ArbComm. The references are likely an attempt to throw out some red herrings and deflect stalkers.

These are very speculative, but wot the hecque, may be worth following up ...

• Jay => Toronto Blue Jays.
• JG => J.G. Ballard, who Jayjg quotes on his user page.

I don't think that the explanation JayJG gives on his user page is true. He uses the username too frequently elsewhere. I think it is similar to a Backronym, the explanation was obviously made up after the fact. JayJG shows no interest what so ever in birds, baseball or science fiction writers. Also, who uses the first two initials of a science fiction writer as the last two letters of their username? Does that make sense to you? It seems highly improbable to me.

Most likely so, but it does betray a quaintance with at least one SF writer, and you may find names and themes from Ballard's work turning up elsewhere in Jayjg's associational complexes. I'm not into cross-word puzzles so much n.e.more, else I'd idyll aweigh a few daze on't.

Jonny (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

This post has been edited by Jonny Cache:

For someone supposedly interested in JG Ballard it's interesting that Jay has never once edited that article. He's also never edited the Toronto Blue Jays article.

The reference to the bird and the author were not added to his user page until January 10, 2006 about a year and a half after joining wikipedia, a little over a year after becoming an admin and several months after being appointed to ArbComm. The references are likely an attempt to throw out some red herrings and deflect stalkers.

What you are saying is that the Ostensible Person (OP) who edits under the usernym "Jayjg" has never edited those articles under that same usernym.

Jonny (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

I think that we can assign rough rankings of the possible various first names based on how many likely they are to be shortened to the "Jay" form.

1. Jason/Jayson > Jay (extremely common)
2. Jacob/Jakob > Jay/Jake (very common)
3. Jarad/Jarred/Jarrod > Jay (fairly common)
4. Jack > Jay (already one syllable, why change to Jay?)
5. Javier > Javy/Javi > J. > Jay (??)
6. James > Jim/Jamie/Jimmy/Jay (Jay is not the most likely short form)
7. Jonathan > Jon > J. > Jay (fairly rare for Jonathan to be shortened to Jay as opposed to Jon)
8. Joseph > Joe > J. > Jay (rare)
9. Joshua > Josh > J. > Jay (rare)
10. John > J. > Jay (rare)
11. Jermaine > Jerry/Jeremy > J. > Jay (rare?)
12. Jeffrey > Jeff > J. > Jay (rare)
13. Jesse > J. > Jay(rare)

There are probably more names but these are the ones I am personally familiar with.

Almost anything beginning with J (Jason) or even a soft G (Gerald).

Almost anything beginning with J (Jason) or even a soft G (Gerald).

• Given names starting with J.
• Given names starting with G.

I notice now that "Jay" can be a true given name, it is not necessarily an informal nickname.

Jayjg has checkuser powers, and according to Florence Devouard (=Anthere) "office also know all the real identities of the checkusers" http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikie...rch/065072.html

We need a spy (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ph34r.gif)

We need a spy (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ph34r.gif)

Naaah! Once Jayjg reads this thread, he'll come around - he'll soon see the error of his ways, come forward and identify himself, revealing that he is, in fact, Nobs.

Anyway, I've moved some of the more, uh, controversial posts from this thread to the Tar Pit, where Google won't get to see them. (Sorry, Sparty, Google can see everything else - you'll just have to register now, I'm afraid! And then we'll have your e-mail address too, won't we? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unsure.gif) )

Buwahahahaha, etc.

"office also know all the real identities of the checkusers"

How carefully have they verified the info? Wasn't Essjay a Checkuser?

"office also know all the real identities of the checkusers"

How carefully have they verified the info? Wasn't Essjay a Checkuser?

Yes, who they are not who they claim to be.

"office also know all the real identities of the checkusers"

How carefully have they verified the info? Wasn't Essjay a Checkuser?

Yes. Which basically means, it doesn't matter to the foundation if there is any difference between who they actually are and who they claim to be on Wikipedia.

I saw JayJG was bothering a Muslim, "Bless sins", so I left a message on Bless's talk page encouraging him but telling him Wikipedia was a waste of time. JayJG was not happy with this and left a message on the page of someone he thought would block me. The person gave me a warning instead, and JayJG whined he did not block me. JayJG finally got me banned for a week for leaving this message on the page of a Muslim Jayjg was bothering - "Hi, I see JayJG has been leaving messages on your page, with his false concern about the rules and supposed reasonableness. In reality, JayJG is a rabid Zionist and is trying to purge Wikipedia of any negative information about Zionism, and is trying to paint Muslims in a bad light."

This is my second ban this month - I left a message on Essjay's talk page amidst the laudatory statements there by the cabal, "You're a liar and on ArbCom, what a shock" that got me blocked this month as well.

This is my second ban this month - I left a message on Essjay's talk page amidst the laudatory statements there by the cabal, "You're a liar and on ArbCom, what a shock" that got me blocked this month as well.

Well, I think for April, you should totally go for the hat trick! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

I'm surprised they haven't deleted the section you added to the guy's talk page... Maybe they just haven't quite gotten around to it.

Well, I think for April, you should totally go for the hat trick! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

I'm surprised they haven't deleted the section you added to the guy's talk page... Maybe they just haven't quite gotten around to it.

No idea if Somey here is joking, or being earnest in a jovial way. But hey Oliver, you have come thus far, speaking the truth that must never be mentioned. Go Old Testament on their ass, I say. Fuck 'em.

Besides, even if you get "indefinitely" (i.e., permanently) banninated, there are technical ways around that to allow you to continue to post. It pays to know people what know people. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ph34r.gif)

This post has been edited by Cedric:

Time to add User:Crum375 to our hit list :-)

JayJG finally got me banned for a week for leaving this message on the page of a Muslim Jayjg was bothering - "Hi, I see JayJG has been leaving messages on your page, with his false concern about the rules and supposed reasonableness. In reality, JayJG is a rabid Zionist and is trying to purge Wikipedia of any negative information about Zionism, and is trying to paint Muslims in a bad light."

There is a rule on Wikipedia that you are not allowed to mention the blatantly obvious biases of Jayjg and SlimVirgin as well as those of other wikicliques. If you keep mentioning it, they will ban you, its just how it works over there. I recommend reading this essay to understand how it works:
http://wikipediareview.com/index.php?showtopic=6988

I am not sure I agree with your logic of self sacrifice, I am not sure what point you are making as the rules that Jayjg and SlimVirgin operate are well established and making yourself a martyr isn't really going to make one once of difference except maybe to you.

I saw JayJG was bothering a Muslim, "Bless sins", so I left a message on Bless's talk page encouraging him but telling him Wikipedia was a waste of time.

Also, may I ask why you just didn't contact Bless sins via email like all good Wikicliquers do? Public communications is a no-no, but you can get away with any form of collusion as long as it is private. That's how these things work.

A more productive response may be to start editing Citizendium. (Which is now my sig!)

No idea if Somey here is joking, or being earnest in a jovial way.

Well, I'm almost always joking to some extent... Though I have to admit, three one-week bans in the same month would be pretty impressive!

My big concern is that if people get banned, they shouldn't treat it like it's a big deal. I mean, so what if they ban you? Is that supposed to be the end of the world? Ridiculous! Sheez, even if you actually enjoy being a part of the whole WP experience, there's plenty of other places, online or off, where one can pursue various forms of mindless entertainment, and some of them even allow points of view that don't rigidly conform to a starkly pro-Zionist, anti-Islamist agenda! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

Has anyone ever been to Zion National Park, by the way? There are some really cool rock formations there.

JayJG does not practice Zionism, rather he worships Wikiism.
Much more powerful than defending his fellow Jews and those of us who live in Israel.

As for being banned?
When you hear that Wikipedia has millions of users, remember that most have been banned and have created new accounts.
Jimbo has spread the word to "ban and create new members!"

It's a numbers game (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

Has anyone ever been to Zion National Park, by the way? There are some really cool rock formations there.

Zion National Park rules! End of story, but not (I hope) end of thread.

JayJG does not practice Zionism, rather he worships Wikiism.

As someone who has been a member of the Labour Friends of Israel for many years, I have to agree.

JayJG does not practice Zionism, rather he worships Wikiism.

As someone who has been a member of the Labour Friends of Israel for many years, I have to agree.

That's too bad, really. At least Zionism has some degree of moral justifiability...

JayJG does not practice Zionism, rather he worships Wikiism.

As someone who has been a member of the Labour Friends of Israel for many years, I have to agree.

That's too bad, really. At least Zionism has some degree of moral justifiability...

There can be no moral justification for being a member of the UK Labour Party. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/mad.gif)

There can be no moral justification for being a member of the UK Labour Party. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/mad.gif)

Oh, that's what that means! I thought "Labour Friends" meant something more generic, like "Invisible Friends" or the "Happy Tree Friends."

(IMG:http://mondo.happytreefriends.com/goodies/images/desktop_patterns/06_septcal02_thumbnail.gif)

There can be no moral justification for being a member of the UK Labour Party. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/mad.gif)

Oh, I'm sorry. I'll close the door behind me as I leave. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/sad.gif)

There can be no moral justification for being a member of the UK Labour Party. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/mad.gif)

Getting a little confused, aren't we? The Labour Party is not the ArbCom.

Right - the ArbCom is more like the Belaboured Party... (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)

Anyway, it looks like Jayjg isn't really doing much that's interesting at the moment, at least since they locked down the "New Antisemitism" article for the what, 54th time?

It seems to me they could end all the warring over that article with a simple page move. Instead of "New antisemitism," they should just call it "Allegations by high-ranking Wikipedians of liberal complicity in antisemitic activities," and then everyone could agree, right? As long as the phrase "by high-ranking Wikipedians" was in there, they wouldn't even need the word "Unfounded" at the beginning of the title.

Right — the ArbCom is more like the Belaboured Party ... (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)

Anyway, it looks like Jayjg isn't really doing much that's interesting at the moment, at least since they locked down the "New Antisemitism" article for the what, 54th time?

It seems to me they could end all the warring over that article with a simple page move. Instead of "New antisemitism", they should just call it "Allegations by high-ranking Wikipedians of liberal complicity in antisemitic activities", and then everyone could agree, right? As long as the phrase "by high-ranking Wikipedians" was in there, they wouldn't even need the word "Unfounded" at the beginning of the title.

But that would violate WP:Avoid Source Responsibility.

Besides, they already have Pallywood, Universities and Antisemitism, and, last alphabetically but far from least, Zombietime, an article created by the Single Purpose Account Manager of all time, Zombiefan ...

Jonny (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

This post has been edited by Jonny Cache:

Right — the ArbCom is more like the Belaboured Party ... (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)

Anyway, it looks like Jayjg isn't really doing much that's interesting at the moment, at least since they locked down the "New Antisemitism" article for the what, 54th time?

It seems to me they could end all the warring over that article with a simple page move. Instead of "New antisemitism", they should just call it "Allegations by high-ranking Wikipedians of liberal complicity in antisemitic activities", and then everyone could agree, right? As long as the phrase "by high-ranking Wikipedians" was in there, they wouldn't even need the word "Unfounded" at the beginning of the title.

But that would violate WP:Avoid Source Responsibility.

Besides, they already have Pallywood, Universities and Antisemitism, and, last alphabetically but far from least, Zombietime, an article created by the Single Purpose Account Manager of all time, Zombiefan ...

Jonny (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

Well - at least I got a chance to tangle with Slim Virgin and JayJG and expose their blatant attempts to use OR and completely disregard WP - before I got banned for a year !

FaAfA

Well - at least I got a chance to tangle with Slim Virgin and JayJG and expose their blatant attempts to use OR and completely disregard WP - before I got banned for a year !

That was you? I was going to start a new thread on that, but we've been so busy around here lately with all the other examples of WP-related badness... In fact, we're really sort of back-logged at this point!

Maybe you'd rather I didn't start one, though? There's a risk they might just extend the ban for 29 more years.

Well - at least I got a chance to tangle with Slim Virgin and JayJG and expose their blatant attempts to use OR and completely disregard WP - before I got banned for a year !

That was you? I was going to start a new thread on that, but we've been so busy around here lately with all the other examples of WP-related badness... In fact, we're really sort of back-logged at this point!

Maybe you'd rather I didn't start one, though? There's a risk they might just extend the ban for 29 more years.

Doesn't bother me if you do. I was the one following WP - SV and JG weren't. I almost couldn't believe it when SV suggested that somone contact the university to see if they used Zombie's photo, so her OR would be even more 'original' !

I tell 'ya. That really shocked me. To see an admin like SV and her cohort JG completely disregard rock-solid WP so they could keep a superfulous trvial reference was mindboggling.

I've been thinking about Jayjg's claim to be in his mid-40s and in management. I doesn't seem to fit with the evidence we've collected on this guy, particularly the points below:

• Jayjg is known to edit primarily from home (which is somewhere near Toronto, Canada the evidence indicates.) While some professionals can work from home, it is incredibly hard to engage in "management" from home.
• Jayjg is often childish in his edit warring. He seems much more immature than a 40 year old, let alone someone chosen for management (which requires well developed interpersonal skills.)
• Jayjg has a lot of free time on his hands (as indicated by his position on ArbCom, his frequent CheckUser work, his oversight work and his frequent admin policing work), which means he doesn't have a family to take care of (no need to take the kids to soccer games or other such things) and that his "job" is not very demanding.

We have already established that some of Jayjg's claims have been false, particularly his claim that he is based in NYC, he is clearly not based in NYC but rather Ontario, Canada as evidenced from multiple IP sightings. I think it is time to start to question Jayjg's other claims...

The fact that Jayjg edits from home, that he displays a lot of immaturity in his "conflict resolution style" (if you want to call it that) and his "job" doesn't seem very demanding suggests to me that Jayjg doesn't have a real job nor is he in his 40's, this is just a set of convenient misrepresentations. Jayjg is probably more similar to Essjay, he's probably quite young and a student (or drop-out like Essay) who edits in his ample free time.

In the wake of the Essjay scandal, I ask the foundation and Jayjg to publicly confirm that he is in fact over the age of 40 and that he works in NYC and to also explain away the significant and growing evidence to the contrary. It may be that Jayjg has lied to the foundation as well about who he is, this lie being just another component in Jayjg's online fantasy role playing game.

It's just a hunch, but I think he's probably a multi-degreed tenured professor at a Catholic institution, hiding his identity to avoid retaliation from the cabal at the Vatican, while doing wonderful work For the Good of Wikipedia and All Mankind.

Or maybe he's another twentysomething who's spent too much of his life in fantasy role playing games.

Certainly his current antics on List of Russian Jews, where he is threatening to wreck the list in retaliation for some dimwit repeatedly trying to add Lenin, don't smack of maturity. He even deleted Zinoviev, noting that there was somebody on the list whose father but not mother was Jewish, and every time he found such a name he would delete it and the name of an undoubted Jew.

Also, he is generally regarded as an orthodox Jew, but doesn't seem to realise that Jewish editors are slightly busy at present with the run-up to Passover so don't have time to join in his games. How would any adult Jew not appreciate that?

Any clue what's up between Henrygb, Jayjg and the rest of the ArbCom? Probably not if you're not privy to the ArbCom mailing list. Lots of intrigue. Henrygb dates back to November 2003:

• User_talk:Henrygb#E-mail
• User_talk:Henrygb#Please_contact_ArbCom

Maybe someone should ask the ArbCom, whose members describe Jayjg as a former member in "good standing", to investigate whether Jayjg has been lying about his identity? I don't think Jayjg is in as "good standing" as they currently have been led to believe.

Why clue what's up between Henrygb, Jayjg and the rest of the ArbCom? Lots of intrigue...

Yikes! It looks like User:Henrygb did the unthinkable - he actually went through and analyzed, bit by bit, the ways in which SlimVirgin changed the RS, V, and NOR policies when "synthesizing" them into WP:ATT. And he wasn't impressed!

He then had the temerity to question Slimmy's rewording of WP:RS, and even went to the extent of adding a question to the Attribution policy poll. So when that was removed, he got fed up with it and left an exasperated-sounding "I give up" message.

So now, they're presumably going to accuse him of using a sock puppet or two in order to ban him, just in case he was thinking about changing his mind and returning to the discussion - or decides to post some sort of userspace essay about the situation that might cast aspersions on Slimmy's & Jayjg's motives. The last thing they want is to have someone around who's actually been paying attention to what they've been up to!

I wonder who they're going to accuse him of being...? I mean, he's only been a WP user for 4 years, which isn't anywhere near enough time to warrant his being given more respect or courtesy than someone who's been there a whole nine weeks like User:DennyColt. Ol' Denny has essentially taken over the whole thing at this point, looks like! Pretty soon, they'll have to rename it "Dennypedia."

I think it's pretty clear that most of them already know who DennyColt really is.

And since when did lying about your identity, or anything else, remove a WikiPimp from good standing with Wikipedia?

Like the Spartans — no, the original Spartans — they encourage lying, cheating, and stealing as essential skills of the expert combatant, and regard the purpose of punishment solely as a lesson on the evils of getting caught.

Jonny (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

This post has been edited by Jonny Cache:

Any clue what's up between Henrygb, Jayjg and the rest of the ArbCom?

Henrygb is officially toast: he's been banned and told to ceremonially commit seppuku. He dared to oppose Slim and Jayjg, an offense for which he was investigated. Once you are investigated, they will find something, just like the Stasi in Eastern Germany. One suspects that User:ChrisO is next, despite the hasty deletion of this comment.

As Jayjg is literally reading the ArbCom's mail, it is hard to know how anyone will get the upper hand on him.

Henrygb is officially toast

Reading the lead-up to this, I get the impression Henrygb was forcing them to do it. If so, he may well be as amazed they didn't wait for the ATT poll stuff to blow over before the inevitable retaliation. Heck, all his shit-raising may have had no effect anyways!

But the act is quite incredible nonetheless. The mindset that can claim it has "nothing to do with ATT" is about as sensible as an argument that the World Trade Center wasn't knocked flat to the ground by terrorists, but some sort of really bad building fire. A kind of officially mandated stupidity one expects of huge, monolithic, bureaucracies in government, not some kind of shoe-string database project.

Also note that SlimVirgin wanted to talk to Audiovideo (see AV's talk-page) a day before. Is it known she in on the ArbCom loop as well? The poor woman is now reduced to damage control, pounding as hard as she can trying to further drive a Wedge of Idiocy between cause and effect. A more sympathetic viewpoint is that she may be pretty pissed though, acting as the cleaning lady for the ArbCom. Unpaid at that!

Any clue what's up between Henrygb, Jayjg and the rest of the ArbCom?

Henrygb is officially toast: he's been banned and told to ceremonially commit seppuku. He dared to oppose Slim and Jayjg, an offense for which he was investigated. Once you are investigated, they will find something, just like the Stasi in Eastern Germany. One suspects that User:ChrisO is next, despite the hasty deletion of this comment.

As Jayjg is literally reading the ArbCom's mail, it is hard to know how anyone will get the upper hand on him.

Leaving aside the question of whether the sockpuppet accusation is accurate, he hasn't been banned. He was merely asked to resign adminship. That's a lot more cordial than the way they removed my adminship.

He's also been blocked at least until he contacts the ArbComm.

What all this shows is that if Slim and Jay can't defeat someone's argument through facts and logic they'll do it by trying to discredit the person himself.

Some questions here:

1. It looks like Slim knew what was going on before anything was publicly posted. Does this mean Jayjg shared Checkuser info with her?

2. How was this sockpuppetry uncovered? Was Jayjg arbitrarily going through the list of opposition voters at ATT to try to diminish the count? Did he do the same to "yes" voters?

3. Does Jayjg still enjoy the confidence of the community to the degree that he can be a virtual ex-officio on the ArbComm?

He was merely asked to resign adminship.

... like how a mugger is "merely asking" for your wallet.

1. It looks like Slim knew what was going on before anything was publicly posted. Does this mean Jayjg shared Checkuser info with her?

Jayjg and SlimVirgin often operate together, piss one off and you have to deal with the other.

2. How was this sockpuppetry uncovered? Was Jayjg arbitrarily going through the list of opposition voters at ATT to try to diminish the count? Did he do the same to "yes" voters?

It is standard practice to find all the ways in which you can undermine those opposing you. Notice that no one is questioning the very suspicious User:DennyColt account (whom we suspect istemporarily believed might have been User:Terryeo) because he is onside with Jayjg and SlimVirgin on the big WP:ATT clusterf**k.

3. Does Jayjg still enjoy the confidence of the community to the degree that he can be a virtual ex-officio on the ArbComm?

Jayjg has been lying about his identity for years, but they won't investigate this because well... when it comes to professionalism and accuracy Wikipedia is a joke! And I for one prefer it to remain this way, which is why I contribute to investigations on WR where the findings by definition have to be denied whether true or not. Exposing problems on WR ensures that the problems remain and continue to fester on Wikipedia proper.

Long live Citizendium!

User:DennyColt account (whom we suspect is User:Terryeo)

What supports that?

Terryeo is one of those single purpose guys with an extremely one track mind. I find it very hard to believe he could spend all the time DennyColt does on random vandal fighting and policy wonking without finding a scientology-related fight to pick.

User:DennyColt account (whom we suspect is User:Terryeo)

What supports that?

Terryeo is one of those single purpose guys with an extremely one track mind. I find it very hard to believe he could spend all the time DennyColt does on random vandal fighting and policy wonking without finding a scientology-related fight to pick.

Somey has long thought DennyColt is a sockpuppet of somebody. We put some evidence together recently that seemed to suggest that it may in fact be Terryeo, see this thread. I didn't think so at first, but then I started to notice that Terryeo had a great existing interest in ATT, RS, NOR and V as well as a lot of submissiveness towards SlimVirgin. Thus DennyColt's policy interests do have a clear precedent in Terryeo. There isn't any conclusive proof at this point though except for the similar spelling mistakes and similar interests and a few other relatively innocuous similarities. Further research is warranted. Was Terryeo ever subject to a checkuser? The individual who did that historical checkuser should still have the IP information and could compare it with the latest results from DennyColt's recent checkuser.

Further research is warranted.

Further research actually suggests it's not him, I'm afraid... I'm probably going to have to move some of that stuff out of the public subforums. Over the last few weeks, User:AntaeusFeldspar and User:ChrisO have spotted Terryeo using an AnonIP to edit some Scientology stuff, specifically this one, and since it's pretty clearly him and that isn't consistent with the gunning-for-adminship behavior we're seeing from DennyColt, I'd have to say Denny's probably not Terryeo. (There's just too many of 'em, dammit!)

Meanwhile, getting back to the original topic of this particular thread, this AN/I entry about Jayjg will probably get ChrisO booted out eventually, along with User:Timeshifter, another Wikipedian who's into Middle-East Affairs and (it would seem) largely opposed to the SlimVirgin folks...

(reads linked thread)

Yeah, you're only up to the Slimvirgin level of sockpuppet evidence so far.

Besides, too many WP admins /hate/ Terryeo. It'd have to be somebody who the checkuser clique likes well enough that they wouldn't expose them. Werdna, for example, is a cabal favorite but can't pass an RFA. He's too technical focused to be DennyColt, but someone in that line, I'm sure.

I think that Terryeo has been busy on Wikinfo of late, but FB and Proteus had some kind of falling out over dey and now WI is so messed up that I can hardly find the stuff I put there anymore.

Jonny (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

This post has been edited by Jonny Cache:

Yeah, you're only up to the Slimvirgin level of sockpuppet evidence so far.

Besides, too many WP admins /hate/ Terryeo. It'd have to be somebody who the checkuser clique likes well enough that they wouldn't expose them. Werdna, for example, is a cabal favorite but can't pass an RFA. He's too technical focused to be DennyColt, but someone in that line, I'm sure.

SlimVirgin level of sockpuppet evidence isn't enough? Somey did just say that he thinks it isn't Terryeo now. And Jonny's evidence of Terryeo being busy elsewhere is also quite convincing. Somey didn't specify earlier the spelling variants this DennyColt does uses, Somey just listed the words DennyColt misspells but via the use of the correct spellings of the words, which would help me in my searchers.

Meanwhile, getting back to the original topic of this particular thread, this AN/I entry about Jayjg will probably get ChrisO booted out eventually, along with User:Timeshifter, another Wikipedian who's into Middle-East Affairs and (it would seem) largely opposed to the SlimVirgin folks...

I noticed that. Treading on thin ice, that's for sure. I expect that SlimVirgin and Jayjg are going to get really aggressive against all opposition if she loses on her precious WP:ATT. SlimVirgin's focus on WP:ATT has temporarily distracted her from her original interests. Her return to the article trenches should be entertaining, and I expect it will help the population over at Citizendium and here. :-)

Hi - I'm **name removed** (indef blocked - some kind of sockpuppet manipulation) and now **name removed** on Wikipedia.

From looking at Jayjg's edits I think he's got something to do with Israel - and he is absolutely most definately WITHOUT question paid to edit. How the hell can anyone spend that much time on Wikipedia if not! If you look at [[User:I'm so special]] - this user was harrased and eventually indef blocked for commenting against Jayjg on the administrators noticeboard. "trolling and disruption" were cited. Whilst MONGO used "knowing where ANI was on her first day" as a motive.

Any thoughts?

**name removed**


Another thing!

I'm so special requested a sock check on MONGO, Chacor and Jayjg. Just look at the message that came up on her talk page:

== Frivolous checkuser request ==
Your request for checkuser concerning Chacor and MONGO was frivolous. These are well-known editors who have been active here in different content areas for years. There was no valid basis of any kind for your request. Please do not do this again. [[User:Newyorkbrad|Newyorkbrad]] 16:10, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

ARRGH!

**name removed**

This post has been edited by The black princess:

From looking at Jayjg's edits I think he's got something to do with Israel - and he is absolutely most definately WITHOUT question paid to edit. How the hell can anyone spend that much time on Wikipedia if not!

We think he is a student who has ample free time to edit Wikipedia. We haven't seen any evidence that Jayjg is paid to edit Wikipedia.

Interseting, welcome to the forum.

Why thankyou :-) LOL! Does Jayjg actually post here. That would be amusing.

Interesting, welcome to the forum.

Why thankyou :-) LOL! Does Jayjg actually post here. That would be amusing.

Now how would we know?

For all we know, you could be Jayjg.

{{Frivolous User Check Kibbitzing}}

Jonny (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

Oh yeah... duh. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wink.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wacko.gif)

He sure edits wikipedia a lot for someone with a full-time job.

Remember - the US pays Israel some $3 billion a year just in direct subsidy (along with a lot more in sweet-heart deals).

Money like that pays for an awful lot of POV-pushing.

Jayjg might need only 1/5,000th of that money to help make sure that Israel is protected in WP - and he's doing a fine job!

He sure edits wikipedia a lot for someone with a full-time job.

Remember - the US pays Israel some $3 billion a year just in direct subsidy (along with a lot more in sweet-heart deals).

Money like that pays for an awful lot of POV-pushing.

Jayjg might need only 1/5,000th of that money to help make sure that Israel is protected in WP - and he's doing a fine job!

There is no evidence that Jayjg is paid to edit Wikipedia. The contradiction that feeds this is that he says he's in his mid-40s and in management and then spends most of some days editing Wikipedia and behaving really immaturely. Another contradiction is that Jayjg said he is based in NYC but all evidence points to him being located near Toronto, Canada. I think it is more likely that Jayjg is just a very pro-Israel student who had been lying about all of his personal details (which is exceedingly common on Wikipedia as we all know by now.)

Jayjg might need only 1/5,000th of that money to help make sure that Israel is protected in WP - and he's doing a fine job!

Andy, welcome to the forum, but I'm compelled to point out that we don't like to make this particular accusation here. Aside from the fact that it's almost certainly not true, our root admin, Selina, has a pet peeve about it, and we don't like to piss her off!

That's not to say that Jayjg is a decent, fair-minded guy, because he really isn't, but at this point we're far more confident that he's a teenager (or early-20's guy) living in Toronto than a paid agent of You-Know-Who™.

And when you think about it, which would you rather have him be?

That's not to say that Jayjg is a decent, fair-minded guy, because he really isn't, but at this point we're far more confident that he's a teenager (or early-20's guy) living in Toronto than a paid agent of You-Know-Who™.

(IMG:http://www.wikiphrenia.com/avatars/mossad_logo.gif) There is being nothing to see here now! You will be moving along now, yes?

That's not to say that Jayjg is a decent, fair-minded guy, because he really isn't, but at this point we're far more confident that he's a teenager (or early-20's guy) living in Toronto than a paid agent of You-Know-Who™.

There is being nothing to see here now! You will be moving along now, yes?

There is no evidence. If you still want to make such claims in the face of no evidence, it is a slippery slope. Making these non-trivial claims of Jayjg without evidence is not that different from George W Bush's claims that Iraq had WMD prior to the 2003 invasion. If you start to believe that suspicion is good enough, you can leave grounded reality. Before jumping to complex explanations, it would be wise to confirm without any doubt whether Jayjg is in fact a student based in Toronto, Canada.

I don't know if anyone has brought this up or not yet, but...

Jayjg appears to be an Orthodox Jew, judging by the articles he edits, the point of view he expresses, and the fact that he does not appear to edit on Jewish holidays,

Now, I believe the Jewish Sabbath is from sundown on Friday through sundown on Saturday. Judging by this, if one were to evaluate the breaks Jayjg takes over the Sabbath day, one could probably narrow down which time zone he is editing from.

I don't really have the patience or dedication to spending hours tracking his edits to figure this out, but I thought I'd toss it out there.

if one were to evaluate the breaks Jayjg takes over the Sabbath day, one could probably narrow down which time zone he is editing from.

I'm sure it's been done and he is in the East of North America.

I'm sure it's been done and he is in the East of North America.

Hmm, that throws a wrench in my theory, then.

Here I was thinking that he was a close real-life friend, relative, or domestic partner of (name redacted). Not that I could really back that up, but it seems to fit the profile even better than the dark conspiracy theories that are often invented to describe their close involvement with one another on WP.

However, if SlimVirgin is in Alberta, and Jayjg is in the eastern part of either Canada or the United States, then this scenario doesn't fit.

Another clue, though a frustratingly opaque clue:

I didn't get anything yet. Could you try e-mailing me at viritalk at hotmail.com ? Jayjg 15:47, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Neu...lease_e-mail_me

Could you please e-mail me at viritalk - at - hotmail.com? Jayjg 23:58, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC) (replace the - at - with an @ ). Thanks. Jayjg 23:58, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Vir...se_e-mail_me.3F

I haven't yet been able to find anything useful on the web in regard to "viritalk", or viri-anything, that would seem to lead to Jayjg/JJG etc. Hmmm.

I did notice an early use of "behaviour" (supporting Canada theory); I also noticed his use of "emoticons" (in text, not like these cartoon ones (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wacko.gif) ), which seems uncharacteristic of "mid-40s-management" -- though I could be wrong on that. ;^)

jayjg says FUCK CHINA! TWICE!

sort of in a nutshell explains his short sightedness.

jayjg says FUCK CHINA! TWICE!

sort of in a nutshell explains his short sightedness.

So let's see. WP gets pranked by having it's Main Page blanked for a few seconds. Thats sooo embarrassing. So people in a huge nation that has a government that doesn't always respect free access to ideas and has an ambivalent attitude toward internet participation have to pay by closing off a fairly simple work-around involving proxies that gave them access to the site. This coming on the heals of a whole lot of juvenile posing as "free speech" defenders over a proprietary hex code.

So there goes the best hope of bringing bourgeois democracy to China. A few more NPOV articles in WP would have surely brought them down.

This post has been edited by GlassBeadGame:

So there goes the best hope of bringing bourgeois democracy to China. A few more NPOV articles in WP would have surely brought them down.

My, what brilliant sarcasm.

I haven't yet been able to find anything useful on the web in regard to "viritalk", or viri-anything, that would seem to lead to Jayjg/JJG etc. Hmmm.

How about "Viriditas"? My guess is that the email was a single purpose account, mainly for communication with Viriditas possibly about a POV issue that Jayjg wasn't pleased with.

Just guesswork. But posting the email "viritalk" to the talk page of "Viriditas"... I'm presuming that it was created solely, or near solely, for the purpose of talking with viri.

Ah, that is indeed a good thought, and probably right.

I haven't yet been able to find anything useful on the web in regard to "viritalk", or viri-anything, that would seem to lead to Jayjg/JJG etc. Hmmm.

How about "Viriditas"? My guess is that the email was a single purpose account, mainly for communication with Viriditas possibly about a POV issue that Jayjg wasn't pleased with.

Just guesswork. But posting the email "viritalk" to the talk page of "Viriditas"... I'm presuming that it was created solely, or near solely, for the purpose of talking with viri.

I don't see why it is all that necessary that SlimVirgin and Jayjg live near each other to be friends. Heck, they can be "friends" enough simply by finding common cause on Wikipedia.

I don't see why it is all that necessary that SlimVirgin and Jayjg live near each other to be friends. Heck, they can be "friends" enough simply by finding common cause on Wikipedia.

It's not, nor was I intending to state that it was. Clearly, (first name redacted) and Jay are friends, regardless of their respective locations.

My point is that there is almost certainly some off-wiki communication going on between Jayjg and SlimVirgin, quite probably in real time. The way they coordinate their attacks almost suggests that either a) they live in the same household or B) they are one and the same user.

My point is that there is almost certainly some off-wiki communication going on between Jayjg and SlimVirgin, quite probably in real time. The way they coordinate their attacks almost suggests that either a) they live in the same household or (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif) they are one and the same user.

I can't wait until someone invents the internet so I can finally have conversations with people outside my own household.

I can't wait until someone invents the internet so I can finally have conversations with people outside my own household.

It's just a matter of time before someone manages to come up with it...

In the meantime, I'm holding on to my Smith-Corona stock, just in case.

I can't wait until someone invents the internet so I can finally have conversations with people outside my own household.

Hey, as I said, I'm not ruling that out as a possibility. My posts in this thread were nothing but speculation, and not very good speculation at that.

Yes, users can coordinate efforts in real time across the internet.

Paid lobbyist? Who does he work for? What is his real name? What city is he posting from? Any clues?

It doesn't matter if he is paid or not, the fact is he fights hard to maintain libellous comments on the lead paragraph of the persons he wants to defame, but then he strangely removes sourced material on pretext of BLP:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=130661670

An editor added sourced info to Bernanke article, resulting in a prolonged edit warring by Jayjg, with threats of getting him blocked. I don't fully understand why this information about Bernanke being Jewish had to be suppressed by these admins, without involving some conspiracy theories into the equation!

I can understand deleting the info from people who might be controversial and therefore whose Jewishness might be embarrassing (Paul Wolfowitz was a recent example), but I'd have thought Bernanke is a good guy.

Frankly I don't care who (or where) Jayjg is, or even how old he is (though I do find it hard to believe he's in his mid-40's, as opposed to his mid-teens). But crap like this, where he tries to equate the results of their own unique talent for pissing people off on WP with arguments that rape victims "deserve what they get" for "dressing provocatively," are quite simply disgusting.

Has he no shame whatsoever?

He should really apologize for that, and not just to rape victims - I mean to everybody.

Frankly I don't care who (or where) Jayjg is, or even how old he is (though I do find it hard to believe he's in his mid-40's, as opposed to his mid-teens). But crap like this, where he tries to equate the results of their own unique talent for pissing people off on WP with arguments that rape victims "deserve what they get" for "dressing provocatively", are quite simply disgusting.

Has he no shame whatsoever?

He should really apologize for that, and not just to rape victims — I mean to everybody.

I was way too bleary-eyed to follow the mass of indirections and bassackward insults last night, but I thought he was accusing his opponents of making analogous arguments — still, I may have missed 1 or 3 twists of the knife.

Jonny (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

This post has been edited by Jonny Cache:

That's not how I read it... He was responding to this comment:

Perhaps if administrators and editors focused on making the articles better, rather than advancing their own ends and personal, social, or religious ideals (not naming names) they wouldn't draw off-Wiki "enemies" like flies.

...at which point he equated that with arguments about rape victims somehow "deserving it." And without the slightest hesitation, I might add.

Again, absolutely despicable.

Again, absolutely despicable.

Just saw it, and replied. I'm furious that he would dare say something that vile. I'm done with that list, I think.

On 5/30/07, jayjg <jayjg99 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I didn't notice this e-mail before; in response, I'll just note that
> perhaps if posters to this list focused on honest and intelligent
> dialogue, rather than advancing foaming-at-the-mouth "women who dress
> in scanty clothes are just asking to be raped" arguments, (not naming
> names), they'd have a better chance of not looking like rabid fools.


With that and your clear disregard for practical reality beyond to push your
own polarizing agendas and POV, I will bow out, but I would like an apology
from you which I don't expect shall be forthcoming. Fools are the ones who
manipulate others intentionally to advance their own aims, trampling them in
the process. Perhaps your pending RFAR for trying to play the seemingly
usual games will teach you apparently needed humility. Perhaps not.

Equating my point that, "If people leave virtual bread crumbs all over the
internet that show who they are and where they live, people will be expected
to put 2 and 2 together, and the subject should not be surprised or upset
when this happens," to "Obviously, you're saying the same thing as women
deserved to be raped for dressing in sexy apparel," is filthy and
disgusting.

No, I clearly said that if you're so frakking concerned about your privacy,
to protect your "IRL" interests so that you can do harm and play mad power
games on Wikipedia, cover your ass well, and don't play a screaming and
crying game when you screwed up and didn't realize that you left the
equivalent of a digital sandwich board on your chest that says, "I live
here! HERE!! And this is my NAME!" Wikipedia's privacy policy protects you
from Wikipedia/ians disclosing info from you on-Wiki, or from information
(IPs, etc.) that you gave to Wikipedia.

If you posted with the same handle hypothetically as "Jayjg" and said,
"Richmond ROCKS! So does Temple Such and Such, and I like eating Salmon!" on
some message board or blog comment, and someone Googles your name, and
starts seeing Easter Eggs all over, it's not Wikipedia's job to enforce a
cover up of the fact that 'someone' named Jayjg comes possibly from a given
town, goes to a given Temple, and enjoys eating salmon.

If people are that worried about it, use a different username on-Wiki that
has nothing to do with you, don't say squat about who you are, what you do
for a living, where you live, and be mindful if you edit articles related to
you and yours to play fairly and by the rules, to not piss off people and
get them searching for you. That's what I said. Basically, "Don't be an
idiot, and then blame others for your own actions and their consequences."

You don't need to respond to this; your smoke and mirrors games don't
matter.

Right - well put!

Mind you, I don't think he was trying to offend you per se - the offense is to rape victims, for trivializing their pain. Now, if he had simply accused you of simply having a "blame the victim mentality," and left it at that, then that would have been perfectly acceptable, civility-wise. If he really wanted a proper analogy, though, I might have used something like "blaming Enron employees who have just lost their pensions for having taken that job in the first place," or maybe "blaming me for the virus that just infected my computer because I happen to use Windows 98 with no service packs, or for that matter, an anti-virus program."

Of course, the reality is more like "blaming someone for not sympathizing with the accuser after his accusations have been proven false and his questionable motives exposed." But that's a whole 'nother topic...

Isn't Jayjg "Guy" on Wikipedia - and therefore the biker guy we've all seen pictures of?

Isn't Jayjg "Guy" on Wikipedia - and therefore the biker guy we've all seen pictures of?

Jayjg is Jayjg on Wikipedia. It may be possible that he is a sockpuppet of another established editor, or vice verse, but it is rather unlikely.

That Guy (as opposed to this Guy) is JzG = Just zis Guy

Mind you, I don't think he was trying to offend you per se - the offense is to rape victims, for trivializing their pain.

Apparently, Mr. Jayjg also likes to trivialize the pain of those who can't refrain from offending decent-minded people and shooting themselves in the foot. As he says, "it's a quite valid analogy," so... there. Nyah, nyah, nyah.

He also poses this question:

Tracking down what you believe are someone's ex-boyfriends and ex-work colleagues in order to get pictures of them, because you claim to have a beef with a website for which they do volunteer work, is a "legitimate thing? In what universe?

Gee, I dunno! Maybe this universe?

I can understand deleting the info from people who might be controversial and therefore whose Jewishness might be embarrassing (Paul Wolfowitz was a recent example), but I'd have thought Bernanke is a good guy.

This is getting funny, he is still doing it, this time blocking the person after coming close to losing the edit war!

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...e=User:Wolfowit

I think his behavior has something to do with the conspiracy theories around the control of federal reserve.

Given that his name is "Ben Shalom Bernanke", maybe they should delete his middle name!

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...e=User:Wolfowit

I know I keep harping on this, but why do these people always mess around with the Brandt article simultaneously with pissing off Jayjg?

Is this some sort of "rite of passing"? Maybe a "cleansing ritual"? They should just delete that thing. I'll bet fewer people would be pissed off...

On:

Deletion_review#Allegations_of_American_apartheid

Overturn. This was a terrible abuse of process on a couple of levels. First, User:ChrisO has been a highly involved editor in these articles, from the original Apartheid Arbitration case, in which he was admonished, to his more recent activism ---snip--- econd, in the actual discussion only 50% of the votes were "Delete". Even if ChrisO were an uninvolved editor (and he clearly is not), his decision was inconsistent with the discussion on the AfD page. Poorly done and abusive all round. Jayjg (talk) 01:49, 31 July 2007

WTF?

WTF?

It's "Allegations of American Apartheid," not "Allegations of Israeli Apartheid." We don't even know if Jayjg is American, and in fact, there are good reasons to believe he's from Canada.

Even if he is American, segregation and racism in the American South don't really conflict with the right-wing pro-Israeli and pro-Zionist stances he generally seems to take, and besides, coming down on the side of the left in this case could very well be an image-reclamation move for him.

and besides, coming down on the side of the left in this case could very well be an image-reclamation move for him.

That's what I suspect.

FaAfA

Jayjg was involved in a very strange exchange that might shed some light on his identity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=148204258

Jayjg was involved in a very strange exchange that might shed some light on his identity. Check out the histories of these pages
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jayjg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Lot...the_Hill_People

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=148204258

Something like what? Your link was to some corporate website. -- LOTHAR

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=148131987
Yeah, but then you go and do something like this. By the way, in AfD discussions the only "Delete" counts as "Delete". Anyway, if you want to keep battling, then there's little point in dialog. If you change your mind (and ways), let me know. [[User:Jayjg|Jayjg ]]^{<small><font color="DarkGreen">[[User_talk:Jayjg|(talk)]]</font></small>} 05:52, 31 July 2007 (UTC


Here's the weird thing. The first comment seems completely apropos of nothing since the history doens't show Jay's posted any corporate website link on Lothar's page. His "something like what" question is worded as a direct response to "Yeah, but then you go and do something like this" but if you look at the times the answer is actually posted several minutes before the question!

My guess is that Jay originally posted his 5:52 comment several minutes earlier. He tried to copy and paste a diff but the copy didn't hold and he accidentally posted the url for "some corporate website". Lothar asks Jay what the corporate website has to do with anything and Jay OVERSIGHTS his earlier comment and then reposts it with the correct url in place.

Pasting the wrong URL is a common mistake but why not just re-edit your post or make a new post saying "oops, pasted in the wrong url, I really meant this one"? You use oversight for one of three reasons according to WP:OVERSIGHT:

1 Removal of nonpublic personal information such as phone numbers, home addresses, workplaces or identities of pseudonymous or anonymous individuals who have not made their identity public.
2 Removal of potentially libellous information either: a) on the advice of Wikimedia Foundation counsel or B) when the subject has specifically asked for the information to be expunged from the history, the case is clear, and there is no editorial reason to keep the revision.
3 Removal of copyright infringement on the advice of Wikimedia Foundation counsel.

We know what he oversighted was a link to a corporate website so 2 and 3 are out. He must have oversighted it because he feared that the link could give away personal information about himself.

My guess is that Jay was multitasking and was doing job-related work at the same time as he was editing wikipedia. Instead of pasting a wikipedia diff he accidentally pastes a url to his employer or some company he does business with. When he's informed of his mistake he panics, oversights his old post and substitutes a new one and then blanks his own talk page without comment.

How can we find out what the oversighted edit is? Can we get a dump? Lothar used the link, can someone contact him and ask him what it was?

Damn, how many "Allegations of Apartheid" articles are there on that crazy-ass site, anyway?

Apparently this guy, User:Lothar_of_the_Hill_People, who may or may not have once been a member of Lothar_and_the_Hand_People, has been doing a lot of work on some of these articles, including trying to get a few of them deleted, like Allegations_of_French_Apartheid (which he tried to move to "Social Exclusion in France," but was reverted by Jayjg), Allegations_of_Brazilian_Apartheid, and Allegations_of_Saudi_Arabian_Apartheid.

I had no idea! I mean, now that I've seen what's going on, I think I see the game Jayjg is playing - he's actually trying to ensure that as many of these articles exist as possible, so as to dilute the impact of the article he probably really, really, really wants to get rid of: Allegations_of_Israeli_Apartheid, which to his great chagrin keeps surviving various AfD attempts.

I'm guessing that he figures that if every country in the world has an "Allegations of Apartheid" article, then anyone looking at the Israeli one will think, "baaah, that's no big deal, every country has one"? Or maybe he figures that the longer this goes on, the more ridiculous it will all look (and let's face it, it does look pretty ridiculous), and the greater the chance that he can get the entire class of articles deleted all at once....?

Why is this not reported in the media? This should be treated as a scandal, in my opinion, or at least a VERY good example of Wikipedia gamesmanship potentially causing serious distortions in the historical record.

Damn, how many "Allegations of Apartheid" articles are there on that crazy-ass site, anyway?

Apparently this guy, User:Lothar_of_the_Hill_People, who may or may not have once been a member of Lothar_and_the_Hand_People, has been doing a lot of work on some of these articles, including trying to get a few of them deleted, like Allegations_of_French_Apartheid (which he tried to move to "Social Exclusion in France," but was reverted by Jayjg), Allegations_of_Brazilian_Apartheid, and Allegations_of_Saudi_Arabian_Apartheid.

I had no idea! I mean, now that I've seen what's going on, I think I see the game Jayjg is playing - he's actually trying to ensure that as many of these articles exist as possible, so as to dilute the impact of the article he probably really, really, really wants to get rid of: Allegations_of_Israeli_Apartheid, which to his great chagrin keeps surviving various AfD attempts.

I'm guessing that he figures that if every country in the world has an "Allegations of Apartheid" article, then anyone looking at the Israeli one will think, "baaah, that's no big deal, every country has one"? Or maybe he figures that the longer this goes on, the more ridiculous it will all look (and let's face it, it does look pretty ridiculous), and the greater the chance that he can get the entire class of articles deleted all at once....?

Why is this not reported in the media? This should be treated as a scandal, in my opinion, or at least a VERY good example of Wikipedia gamesmanship potentially causing serious distortions in the historical record.

Ah, I get you.

Why not reported in the media? Because in theory it could be a coincidence.

Well: the story is like this: Homey (a user somewhat critical of Israeli policies) started the [[Israeli Apartheid]] article last spring, and all hell broke loose. After countless AfD which did not produce the wanted result, the "compromise" was that the article was moved to "Allegation about Israeli Apartheid". (Actually, the story goes even further back, to a general "Apartheid" article which had a country-section which mentioned Israel (among others)...it got deleted..without an consensus, but the bluff was that the country-sections should go into another article...which they all did.....EXCEPT the Israeli section....) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/dry.gif)

However, some of the most fanatical of Israel´s supporters were not happy with only a move (to "Allegations of.."), so they have for the last months been making thousands (literally!) of edits in 100% violation of [[WP:POINT]]. Especially Urthogie and Jayjg, but also
other familiar pro-Israeli editors (and by that I mean editors who hardly edits on anything but Israel/Middle East) ..suddenly developing an interest in "allegations of apartheid" in Cuba, USA, France, or wherever.

It is all a ploy to make Israel look like *any other state.* Nothing special about Israeli policies, right? (The fact that there are thousands of articles and tens, if not hundreds, of books using the word "apartheid" about Israel´ policies towards the Arabs/Palestinians, (including by two Nobel Peace Price winners;Tutu and Carter) ...Israel´s policies is somehow "counted" as the same as a nobody mentioning the word "apartheid" in connection with ANY other country.

I think the gang was a bit surprised to see to opposition to the France article (there are a lot of French people on WP) ...much easier with smaller countries. So we should NOT expect articles about, say: [[Allegations about apartheid in Germany]], [[Allegations about apartheid in Holland]], or [[Allegations about apartheid in Sweden]] --there are just too many German, Dutch and Swedish people on English Wikipedia ---but stay tuned for: [[Allegations about apartheid in Mauritania]], [[Allegations about apartheid in Burkina Faso]], and [[Allegations about apartheid in Turkmenistan]] (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)

And the articles are all soooooo bad, an example; Jay started Allegations_of_Saudi_Arabian_apartheid on 6 April 2007:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=120794646
...and it was 90% a direct copy of the [[Sex segregation]] article at that time!:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...61#Saudi_Arabia (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wacko.gif)

I'm guessing that he figures that if every country in the world has an "Allegations of Apartheid" article, then anyone looking at the Israeli one will think, "baaah, that's no big deal, every country has one"? Or maybe he figures that the longer this goes on, the more ridiculous it will all look (and let's face it, it does look pretty ridiculous), and the greater the chance that he can get the entire class of articles deleted all at once....?

Why is this not reported in the media? This should be treated as a scandal, in my opinion, or at least a VERY good example of Wikipedia gamesmanship potentially causing serious distortions in the historical record.

Good points!

They need an "Allegations of Wikipedia Apartheid" article on the hundreds of people unfairly banned. ;-)

WTF?

It's "Allegations of American Apartheid," not "Allegations of Israeli Apartheid." We don't even know if Jayjg is American, and in fact, there are good reasons to believe he's from Canada.

Even if he is American, segregation and racism in the American South don't really conflict with the right-wing pro-Israeli and pro-Zionist stances he generally seems to take, and besides, coming down on the side of the left in this case could very well be an image-reclamation move for him.

Likely that the article is some kind of payback for Carter's comparison of the treatment of Palestinians in the occupied territories as "Apartheid." Sort of like "oh yeah cracker, look at your own backyard." Carter's treatment by the "New Anti-Semitism Smear Team" has been pretty brutal. The problem is that Carter would be the last person to defend American racism. This particular criticism of America is a perfect fit for a Canadian Zionist.

So User:Lothar of the Hill People just needs to check his browser history (assuming he clicked on the link) and share the results?

It's amazing how Jayjg is able to get away with his massive disruptions of Wikipedia.

This post has been edited by Heat:

This wikien-l posting makes sense. Not just in terms of the "Hasbara" but also consider:

• Jayjg recent abuse of CheckUser powers.
• Jayjg uncommonly close and protracted collaboration with SlimVirgin.
• Mounting evidence that SlimVirgin was at least at one time engaged in covert intelligence activities.
• Jayjg use of oversight powers to obscure the identity of SlimVirgin and the nature of her editing activities.
• Jayjg reluctance to provided identifying information (left ArbCom when this was at issue) to the foundation. We have no confirmation that he has complied with the foundations CheckUser identity/age disclosure policy.
• The announced practice of at one least organization (Hasbara Foundation) to interject POV in an organized fashion, into topics consistent with Jayjg editing patterns.

I think it would only be due diligence for WMF to make this inquiry. I also think that the foundation should make public the fact that Jayjg's name, address, employment and age have been confirmed (although not reveal the information). What is at issue her is not merely POV pushing in articles. We need to assure that Jayjg does not use his CheckUser powers to make private information available to agencies and actors who can use that information to stifle dissent on and off Wikipedia.

It's amazing how Jayjg is able to get away with his massive disruptions of Wikipedia.

Given the little to nil on-wiki communications between Jimbo and Jay in the early days, it's clear they have an off-Wiki relationship of some sort, be it business or professional. This is why.

This is interesting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Req...ced_information

How long did/does this restriction stand on Jay? I wonder if people know about this.

Check this out:

http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikie...ust/078542.html

If we've come to the conclusion that Jayjg's time here has come to a
close and that his continued presence harms wikipedia's reputation
perhaps a community ban would be in order?

He's not the only one either. It seems that virtually everyone is asking Jayjg to leave.

As long as Jimbo will continue to be his fluffer, this will never happen. Truthfully, it's past time for Jimbo to leave as well.

Jay's now gone hog wild refactoring the Chinese Apartheid AfD, despite that being a big no-no on policy. Why doesn't someone just ban him and get it over with? Fucking go to war on-Wiki against him people, and stand UP to him. I know a lot of senior Wikipedians are reading this. Fuck Jay: just end this. Take a stand.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Art...rtheid#Comments

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Adm...inese_apartheid

This post has been edited by Infoboy:

Be a mensch! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

[*] Jayjg reluctance to provided identifying information (left ArbCom when this was at issue) to the foundation. We have no confirmation that he has complied with the foundations CheckUser identity/age disclosure policy.

Where is the evidence that this is why Jayjg left ArbComm? Since CheckUser permissions are given by ArbComm and can be revoked by it why would they not enforce the id requirement for CheckUser if they were insisting upon it for ArbComm?

On the afd for Allegations of Chinese apartheid, an article which Jayjg contrived, he writes:

I encourage editors here to re-read the article, as I think it's rapidly approaching some of Wikipedia's best work.

So in order to ensure that his hated Israel apartheid article is eventually deleted (or at least that it is obscured by scores of other competing "apartheid" articles), he is spending literally hours working on these other articles. And having the bravado to describe them as approaching "Wikipedia's best work" for good measure.

He's boldly taking the piss now. It is hard to know whether to despair at Jayjg's extraordinary Machiavellian machinations, or stand back and admire his sheer gall. Only today Jimbo backed Jayjg, so presumably Jimbo approves of this kind of bullshit as well. Jayjg's Best Work, an account of this bizarre apartheid saga, must surely warrant a chapter in Wikipedia:The real story, a book waiting to be written.

On the afd for Allegations of Chinese apartheid, an article which Jayjg contrived, he writes:

I encourage editors here to re-read the article, as I think it's rapidly approaching some of Wikipedia's best work.

So in order to ensure that his hated Israel apartheid article is eventually deleted (or at least that it is obscured by scores of other competing "apartheid" articles), he is spending literally hours working on these other articles. And having the bravado to describe them as approaching "Wikipedia's best work" for good measure.

He's boldly taking the piss now. It is hard to know whether to despair at Jayjg's extraordinary Machiavellian machinations, or stand back and admire his sheer gall. Only today Jimbo backed Jayjg, so presumably Jimbo approves of this kind of bullshit as well. Jayjg's Best Work, an account of this bizarre apartheid saga, must surely warrant a chapter in Wikipedia:The real story, a book waiting to be written.

This amazes me and makes me think that Jayjg is just some kid. Proliferating a number of [[Xcountry Apartheid]] articles to counter an accusation by a former US President of the same by Israel seems to smack of Lee Atwater and the Young Republicans. It a good yuck and all, but not a serious approach.

Jayjg's Best Work, an account of this bizarre apartheid saga, must surely warrant a chapter in Wikipedia:The real story, a book waiting to be written.

This amazes me and makes me think that Jayjg is just some kid. Proliferating a number of [[Xcountry Apartheid]] articles to counter an accusation by a former US President of the same by Israel seems to smack of Lee Atwater and the Young Republicans. It a good yuck and all, but not a serious approach.

Completely surreal. There is a book just waiting to be written. I can't help but wonder whether Jayjg's tactic of making a series of articles just creates more traffic to all of them and raising their awareness in general.

I don't get involved for two reasons:

1. I do think that Jayjg isn't thinking this through and is just making things worse for himself and raising the traffic on the article he appears to dislike so much. This centralized discussion tactic is a non-starter and a waste of time for all involved.

2. Jayjg is impervious to reason, he flames everyone who disagrees with him and continues on his track. He's out of control but really what can you do about it? I for one don't want the mental anguish that comes with trying to talk with him about his behavior.

As they say in the military, it is completely FUBAR and likely to continue as so for the forseeable future.

This post has been edited by SenseMaker:

This is an odd argument. This argument is like defending a charge of theft by making an extensive list of things I did not steal.

Paid lobbyist? Who does he work for? What is his real name? What city is he posting from? Any clues?

It is suspicious. Also, his name might be Andrew Blum, see [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dnL00TdmLY&eurl=]
here[/url]. Why would he lie about his location? Maybe [url=http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Slimvirgin]
a spy[/url].

JayJG finally got me banned for a week for leaving this message on the page of a Muslim Jayjg was bothering - "Hi, I see JayJG has been leaving messages on your page, with his false concern about the rules and supposed reasonableness. In reality, JayJG is a rabid Zionist and is trying to purge Wikipedia of any negative information about Zionism, and is trying to paint Muslims in a bad light."

There is a rule on Wikipedia that you are not allowed to mention the blatantly obvious biases of Jayjg and SlimVirgin as well as those of other wikicliques. If you keep mentioning it, they will ban you, its just how it works over there. I recommend reading this essay to understand how it works:
http://wikipediareview.com/index.php?showtopic=6988

I am not sure I agree with your logic of self sacrifice, I am not sure what point you are making as the rules that Jayjg and SlimVirgin operate are well established and making yourself a martyr isn't really going to make one once of difference except maybe to you.

I saw JayJG was bothering a Muslim, "Bless sins", so I left a message on Bless's talk page encouraging him but telling him Wikipedia was a waste of time.

Also, may I ask why you just didn't contact Bless sins via email like all good Wikicliquers do? Public communications is a no-no, but you can get away with any form of collusion as long as it is private. That's how these things work.

A more productive response may be to start editing Citizendium. (Which is now my sig!)

I have been to Zion. It's nice.

I can now add that someone pointed me to a third line of independent evidence that solidly links Jayjg to Toronto, Canada. This time the information is from early 2006. The IP is near identical to the one I gave above in that it geo-resolves to Toronto, Canada and it gives up in a R-DNS query an address that terminates in "*.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com."

Rogers is a giant ISP, covering most of Ontario (except some little pockets in the east which is Cogeco territory which will eventually be assimilated by the Borg Rogers).

Those geolocation tools (specifically regarding Rogers ISPs) can be wrong. Geolocating to Toronto could mean anywhere in the Greater Toronto area. In fact, there area a few IP ranges which are nowhere near Toronto, which geolocate to Toronto. I remember having one IP address in the past which geolocated to Toronto (and I live nowhere near there).

I wonder why Jayjg hasn't commented in the Chinese apartheid DRV yet...

I wonder why Jayjg hasn't commented in the Chinese apartheid DRV yet...

Welcome.. Ampersand...

I wonder why Jayjg hasn't commented in the Chinese apartheid DRV yet...

Welcome.. Ampersand...

Thanks! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)

Also, what in the world is a co-closure? I've never seen that done before.

I wonder why Jayjg hasn't commented in the Chinese apartheid DRV yet...

Jayjg is apparently on a wikibreak.

After his last post to WikiEN-l, he's probably contemplating his position in the wikiverse.
> - Jayjg's time here has come to a close and he should give it up or go
> into hiding.

LOL! We have all "established" this, have we?


His last contrib at WP was 4 days ago at 00:07, 4 August 2007 UTC, his longest absence for quite some time.

Of the "Allegations of Apartheid" -articles which remains, googeling gives the fowllowing:
"Israeli apartheid" 167,000

"Brazilian apartheid" 420

"French apartheid" 328

"Saudi Arabian apartheid" 257

...however, most of the Brazilian, French and Saudi-Arabian hits are to....you guessed it: Wikipedia or WP clones.

And Jay argues they are all the same?

And Jay argues they are all the same?

He has to, he's only on Wikipedia to defend Israel.

Jayjg's taken quite a beating in the past week. First, he came under attack on wikien-l from established, non-aligned editors begging him point blank to leave the project. Then, the whole "Hasbara" scandal hits wikipedia and undermines the credibility of his "team". Then, he accidentally reveals who might be his employer. Then, his Apartheid house of cards collapses with the defeat of his American and Chinese apartheid articles in swift succession and what looks like the imminent collapse of the remaining articles in his bogus apartheid gambit.

Maybe he's been recalled for consultations or retraining?

This post has been edited by Heat:

Jayjg's taken quite a beating in the past week. First, he came under attack on wikien-l from established, non-aligned editors begging him point blank to leave the project. Then, the whole "Hasbara" scandal hits wikipedia and undermines the credibility of his "team". Then, he accidentally reveals who might be his employer. Then, his Apartheid house of cards collapses with the defeat of his American and Chinese apartheid articles in swift succession and what looks like the imminent collapse of the remaining articles in his bogus apartheid gambit.

Maybe he's been recalled for consultations or retraining?

There are large enough Wikipedian populations on both sides of the issues involved that the proxy Israel-Palestinian battle is likely to continue until the real world conflict is resolved. The tactics will likely be ever changing as Wikipedia battles are like mini arms races.

I missed where we revealed his possible employer? What was it?

There are large enough Wikipedian populations on both sides of the issues involved that the proxy Israel-Palestinian battle is likely to continue until the real world conflict is resolved. The tactics will likely be ever changing as Wikipedia battles are like mini arms races.

I missed where we revealed his possible employer? What was it?

The fact is Jay along with his little supporters consistently intimidated and chased away anyone who dared to question his neutrality in relation to Israel/Palestine articles and those of Israel/Palestine supporters/detractors . Only now when it has become blatantly obvious with his creation of the multiple Allegations articles has the general wiki crowd finally cottoned on to what he has been doing for going on 4 years. Multiple attempts were made to draw the problem to the attention of J Wales and the man just completed ignored or rubbished peoples claims. He has to bear a large part of the responsibility for this for his personal decision to appoint Jayjg to the Arbcom multiple times and for allowing someone who clearly has a political agenda access to checkuser and effectively use Wikipedia as an intelligence gathering operation.

I missed where we revealed his possible employer? What was it?

Did someone say he's not a greeter at Wal-Mart?

Oh, wait a minute, that was the incident referred to earlier in this same thread - here, I believe. I don't think we know for sure what the spurious link was, or if it was actually Jayjg's employer (it could have been a client or a reference, for example). At least I haven't heard anything more about it.

I dunno, it just makes me feel better to think of him standing there, in that bright blue apron, telling the customers "welcome to Wal-Mart." You know, doing something useful with his life.

Then, he accidentally reveals who might be his employer.

What?! Where the heck did that happen??

Then, he accidentally reveals who might be his employer.

What?! Where the heck did that happen??

It's no good as he oversighted the edits almost as soon as he made them- Somey just posted the link to the thread here.

Then, he accidentally reveals who might be his employer.

What?! Where the heck did that happen??

It's no good as he oversighted the edits almost as soon as he made them- Somey just posted the link to the thread here.

I was hoping to get confirmation from Lothar of the Hill People but I don't think he has email set up and I didn't want to leave a message on his talk page since I don't want prying eyes to link me to WR.

A friend of mine who is a close "Jay watcher" clicked on the link when it was posted and says it's still in his browser memory. He's checking his files and a few other people to see if there's a screenshot.

This post has been edited by Heat:

Maybe a throw away sock account can link/ping Lothar to come look here.

Theory: given that whenever Jay comes under attack/scrutiny--note, he hasn't TOUCHED the recent ArbComs swirling around him--he vanishes and cuts back on Wikipedia.

The Apartheid arbcom appears bound to open now:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Req....2F2.2F0.2F1.29

Hence, he's vanished, and I predict he will not make one single edit under his master name. We need to find the sock accounts he's presently using.

Theory: given that whenever Jay comes under attack/scrutiny--note, he hasn't TOUCHED the recent ArbComs swirling around him--he vanishes and cuts back on Wikipedia.

The Apartheid arbcom appears bound to open now:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Req....2F2.2F0.2F1.29

Hence, he's vanished, and I predict he will not make one single edit under his master name. We need to find the sock accounts he's presently using.

Well Jayjg's page on wikiabuse has vanished from the google cache. My guess is that he had google take it down.

wikiabuse.com's page on Jayjg listed all his suspected socks. Rootology has vanished from WR, too.