 Simple English Wikiquote, Translate a quote...? |
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| American Eagle |
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#61
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Neophyte Group: Contributors Posts: 18 Joined: From: Michigan Member No.: 11,553  |
As poorly as many editors think of it, Simple English Wikiquote (yes, the wiki that "translates" quotes) has never been this active! With the additions of four administrators in the last three days, things are moving along quite nicely. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/rolleyes.gif)
Yay for Simple English Wikiquote! |
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| carbuncle |
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#62
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Fat Cat  Group: Regulars Posts: 1,601 Joined: Member No.: 5,544 |
QUOTE(American Eagle @ Mon 27th April 2009, 1:33am)  As poorly as many editors think of it, Simple English Wikiquote (yes, the wiki that "translates" quotes) has never been this active! With the additions of four administrators in the last three days, things are moving along quite nicely. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/rolleyes.gif) Yay for Simple English Wikiquote! I was hoping this was just a joke, but, no, there really is a Simple English Wikiquote, complete with typos on the main page. At last everyone, even those with minimal English proficiency, can enjoy quotations from the world's greatest minds like Paula Abdul: QUOTE * "If they're singing about heartbreak, they've lived it." Which apparently means: QUOTE Simple: If they are singing about being heartbroken, they have sang it (their song) very well. Wow... |
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| Somey |
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#63
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Can't actually moderate (or even post) Group: Moderators Posts: 11,816 Joined: From: Dreamland Member No.: 275 |
He went through all the trouble of registering here just to post that?
Astonishing. |
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| carbuncle |
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#64
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Fat Cat Group: Regulars Posts: 1,601 Joined: Member No.: 5,544 |
Hey, while you're here talking up Simple English Wikiquote, could you explain this diff?
Here's the original Barack Obama quote: "There are patriots who opposed the war in Iraq and there are patriots who supported the war in Iraq. We are one people, all of us pledging allegiance to the stars and stripes, all of us defending the United States of America." The Simple English™ translation was: Simple: There are patriots who were against the war in Iraq and there are patriots who supported the War in Iraq. The United States is one country and we all pledge allegiance to our country. You changed it to: Simple: There are patriots who are against the war in Iraq and there are patriots who support the War in Iraq. The United States is one country and we all pledge allegiance to our country. with the edit summary "Undo: good faith, but the Iraqi war isn't official over". Shouldn't the tenses agree in the original and "translated" versions? What does the war being over or not being over have to do with anything? |
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| American Eagle |
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#67
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Neophyte Group: Contributors Posts: 18 Joined: From: Michigan Member No.: 11,553 |
You all seriously make me laugh. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)
carbuncle: What are the typos on the Main Page? The Paula Abdul quote is not a very well translated quote... at all. About the Obama undo, I've just now given that some thought. I undid my edit. Thanks for pointing that out. Somey: I did not just register only to post that. I want the account to use in general other than this topic. This seemed like a good starting topic, no? the_undertow: O..k............ (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/confused.gif) |
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| MZMcBride |
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#68
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Ãœber Member Group: Regulars Posts: 671 Joined: Member No.: 10,962 |
I've advocated for killing Wikiquote and for killing the entire Simple series. (Or moving them to another Foundation, at least.) Simple English Wikiquote simply drips with fail.
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| Somey |
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#69
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Can't actually moderate (or even post) Group: Moderators Posts: 11,816 Joined: From: Dreamland Member No.: 275 |
QUOTE(American Eagle @ Sun 26th April 2009, 11:52pm) Somey: ... This seemed like a good starting topic, no? Is that a trick question? This site is supposed to be for review and critique, Mr. Eagle. Simply posting "Yay for [insert name of site/project/whatever here]" is usually referred to as "spamming," in most circles... The thing is, though, this almost never happens on WR, because most people realize that posting such a sentiment would only lead to a great deal of ridicule, sarcasm, and other forms of unnecessary grief such as the comment immediately above this one. Also, be aware that we're "ageists" here - if you're under 13 and we find out, then I'm afraid we'll have to suspend your account. If you're under 16 and we find out, we probably should ban you, but we usually won't unless you publicly refer to yourself as being under 16 - and that includes references on WP user pages. Just so you'll know! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif) |
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| The Joy |
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#70
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I am a millipede! I am amazing! Group: Members Posts: 3,839 Joined: From: The Moon Member No.: 982 |
QUOTE(American Eagle @ Sun 26th April 2009, 9:33pm) As poorly as many editors think of it, Simple English Wikiquote (yes, the wiki that "translates" quotes) has never been this active! With the additions of four administrators in the last three days, things are moving along quite nicely. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/rolleyes.gif) Yay for Simple English Wikiquote! Perhaps such an announcement would be best made at The Wikipedia Forum? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unsure.gif) http://www.thewikipediaforum.com/ |
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| Milton Roe |
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#71
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Known alias of J. Random Troll Group: Regulars Posts: 10,209 Joined: Member No.: 5,156 |
QUOTE(carbuncle @ Sun 26th April 2009, 8:27pm) I was hoping this was just a joke, but, no, there really is a Simple English Wikiquote, complete with typos on the main page. At last everyone, even those with minimal English proficiency, can enjoy quotations from the world's greatest minds... Wow... I workered how it would work on some famous stuff. I noticed that some of the greats have long patches of writing which are so simply worded that it hardly needs changing! But that last 10 or 20% that does, is the the zing and and ring and poignance and the poetry. Removing it blandifies it, like being forced to cook without the spice rack. But it makes it a lot clearer for people who have English as a second language, and need a limited vocabulary. In the end, the essentials remain. An example I tried to construct myself: ========================== Eighty-seven years ago, our great grandfathers made a new country here on this great land, starting with the idea of freedom, and the new idea that everybody starts out in life equal to everybody else. Now we are in a huge war between different parts of our country, testing to see if this country, or any country started with freedom and that idea of equal people, will last very long. We are meeting on a big battle field of this war where many dead soldiers are buried. We have come to give speeches to make part of that field a regular graveyard for those who died here, so that their country could live. It is a good thing to do that. But really, we cannot make this graveyard any more holy than it is. The brave men, living and dead, by fighting here for freedom, have already made it too holy for us to change it.* The world will not notice very much, or even remember for very long, what we say here; but the world can't forget what these brave men did here. It is for us, instead of making new graveyards, to promise to finish the work that these brave men have already gotten so far along with. We promise to finish their great task. From the efforts of these heros, we take greater interest in the work to which they gave the greatest of interests-- more interest than they had for their own lives. We should decide right now, for once and for all, that these men will not have died for nothing. We should promise that this country, with god watching, will have a new fresh start of freedom. Which means that this new idea of a country where the ordinary people, with everyone equal, make all the laws of the country for themselves--- won't disapear for good. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif) I think it's more understandable to the average 12 year-old now. * n.b. You know, this is very Roman idea. Gladiators battling in front of the the tomb, at the funeral, gave the dead Roman the highest honor. Words were secondary. |
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| jayvdb |
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#72
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Senior Member Group: Contributors Posts: 271 Joined: From: Melbourne, Australia Member No.: 1,039 |
QUOTE(MZMcBride @ Mon 27th April 2009, 3:12pm) I've advocated for killing Wikiquote and for killing the entire Simple series. (Or moving them to another Foundation, at least.) Simple English Wikiquote simply drips with fail. I enjoyed the "Wikiquote must die" discussion; where is the "please dont be simple" edition? |
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| The Wales Hunter |
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#73
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Hackenslasher Group: Regulars Posts: 869 Joined: Member No.: 4,319 |
To try and salvage something out of this thread, AmericanEagle is an admin on Simple English Wikipedia who goes out of his way to protect ChristianMan16, an 18-year-old Christian fundamentalist who has been banned from EN and has begged the Simple community to help him get back on.
Note ChristianMan's userpage: http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:CM16 And note the row caused by a userbox he created: http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia...rriagePosistion Kids being kids, etc. |
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| Jon Awbrey |
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#74
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Ï„á½° δΠμοι παθήματα μαθήματα γÎγονε Group: Moderators Posts: 6,783 Joined: From: Meat Puppet Nation Member No.: 5,619 |
QUOTE(The Wales Hunter @ Mon 27th April 2009, 6:36am) To try and salvage something out of this thread, AmericanEagle is an admin on Simple English Wikipedia who goes out of his way to protect ChristianMan16, an 18-year-old Christian fundamentalist who has been banned from EN and has begged the Simple community to help him get back on. Note ChristianMan's userpage: simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:CM16 And note the row caused by a userbox he created: simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_deletion/Requests/2009/User:ChristianMan16/MarriagePosistion Kids being kids, etc. Howsabout a Userbox for — QUOTE This User Is Too Young To Spell Marriage Posistion, But Hopes Someday To Get A Chance To Try One Out On An Actual Person Ja Ja (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/boing.gif) |
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| carbuncle |
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#75
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Fat Cat Group: Regulars Posts: 1,601 Joined: Member No.: 5,544 |
QUOTE(MZMcBride @ Mon 27th April 2009, 5:12am) I've advocated for killing Wikiquote and for killing the entire Simple series. (Or moving them to another Foundation, at least.) Simple English Wikiquote simply drips with fail. Exactly how does one go about having the WMF end a project as ridiculous as this one? Is there a precedent? Can someone please point me at any previous discussion on closing Simple English™ Wikiquote™? |
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| GlassBeadGame |
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#76
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Dharma Bum Group: Contributors Posts: 7,919 Joined: From: My name it means nothing. My age it means less. The country I come from is called the Mid-West. Member No.: 981 |
QUOTE(carbuncle @ Mon 27th April 2009, 9:13am) QUOTE(MZMcBride @ Mon 27th April 2009, 5:12am) I've advocated for killing Wikiquote and for killing the entire Simple series. (Or moving them to another Foundation, at least.) Simple English Wikiquote simply drips with fail. Exactly how does one go about having the WMF end a project as ridiculous as this one? Is there a precedent? Can someone please point me at any previous discussion on closing Simple English™ Wikiquote™? Not ending "ridiculous projects" is pretty much an existential question for WMF. |
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| thekohser |
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#77
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Member Group: Regulars Posts: 10,274 Joined: Member No.: 911 |
I really like the Jimmy Wales page on Simple Wikiquote:
QUOTE: "Imagine a world in which every single person on the planet is given free access to the sum of all human knowledge. That's what we're doing." SIMPLE: Imagine that every person on Earth can find out what anyone else knows. That is what Wikipedia is doing. So, do you know what I know? Are you able to read my mind? I must -- must -- participate in this venture! This post has been edited by thekohser: |
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| thekohser |
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#78
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Member Group: Regulars Posts: 10,274 Joined: Member No.: 911 |
Yes, indeed... this is the best Wikimedia Foundation site I have yet seen. It is what I've been looking for, for nearly the past three years.
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| Somey |
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#79
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Can't actually moderate (or even post) Group: Moderators Posts: 11,816 Joined: From: Dreamland Member No.: 275 |
QUOTE(carbuncle @ Mon 27th April 2009, 10:13am) Exactly how does one go about having the WMF end a project as ridiculous as this one? Is there a precedent? Can someone please point me at any previous discussion on closing Simple English™ Wikiquote™? I remember at the last Annual Meeting of the Royal Society For Putting Things On Top Of Other Things, all it took was for the Staffordshire delegate to stand up and point out that "some of the members think, well... the whole thing's a bit silly." Ahh, those were different times... Maybe this thread could represent the point at which the members suddenly realize they're "surrounded by film." Also, let's not forget the true precursor of Simple English WikiQuote, namely Uncyclopedia's Unquotable:Quotes in Dumbass. |
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| GlassBeadGame |
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#80
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Dharma Bum Group: Contributors Posts: 7,919 Joined: From: My name it means nothing. My age it means less. The country I come from is called the Mid-West. Member No.: 981 |
QUOTE(thekohser @ Mon 27th April 2009, 10:12am) Yes, indeed... this is the best Wikimedia Foundation site I have yet seen. It is what I've been looking for, for nearly the past three years. Yahoo has beat them to the punch. Just feed the quote into the translation engine on Bablefish and post whatever comes out on a wiki. You could even play "Telegraph." Run a English quote it through several successive languages then return it to English and try to guess the original quote. |
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| Lar |
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#81
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"His blandness goes to 11!" Group: Regulars Posts: 2,116 Joined: From: A large LEGO storage facility Member No.: 4,290 |
QUOTE(carbuncle @ Mon 27th April 2009, 11:13am) QUOTE(MZMcBride @ Mon 27th April 2009, 5:12am) I've advocated for killing Wikiquote and for killing the entire Simple series. (Or moving them to another Foundation, at least.) Simple English Wikiquote simply drips with fail. Exactly how does one go about having the WMF end a project New projects are requested here (the Proposals for new projects page) Closing of existing projects are requested here (the Proposals for closing projects page) QUOTE as ridiculous as this one? Is there a precedent? Can someone please point me at any previous discussion on closing Simple English™ Wikiquote™? Don't know about that... maybe check the Proposals for closing projects page archives? Hope that helps. |
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| Somey |
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#82
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Can't actually moderate (or even post) Group: Moderators Posts: 11,816 Joined: From: Dreamland Member No.: 275 |
QUOTE(Lar @ Mon 27th April 2009, 11:36am) Don't know about that... maybe check the Proposals for closing projects page archives? Even better: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_f...h_(2)_Wikiquote |
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| GlassBeadGame |
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#83
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Dharma Bum Group: Contributors Posts: 7,919 Joined: From: My name it means nothing. My age it means less. The country I come from is called the Mid-West. Member No.: 981 |
QUOTE(Somey @ Mon 27th April 2009, 10:42am) QUOTE(Lar @ Mon 27th April 2009, 11:36am) Don't know about that... maybe check the Proposals for closing projects page archives? Even better: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_f...h_(2)_Wikiquote I see Majorly supports the proposal. This is an example of the bad being the enemy of the even worse. |
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| Random832 |
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#84
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meh Group: Regulars Posts: 1,933 Joined: Member No.: 4,844 |
QUOTE(thekohser @ Mon 27th April 2009, 3:58pm) I really like the Jimmy Wales page on Simple Wikiquote: That's not really a bad translation of "the sum of all human knowledge" - sometimes it's the original quote that's ridiculous (or, more likely, full of empty rhetoric and light on actual content) and the simple translation simply hilights this.QUOTE: "Imagine a world in which every single person on the planet is given free access to the sum of all human knowledge. That's what we're doing." SIMPLE: Imagine that every person on Earth can find out what anyone else knows. That is what Wikipedia is doing. So, do you know what I know? Are you able to read my mind? I must -- must -- participate in this venture! |
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| Somey |
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#85
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Can't actually moderate (or even post) Group: Moderators Posts: 11,816 Joined: From: Dreamland Member No.: 275 |
Also interesting, IMO, is Orthorhombic (T-C-L-K-R-D)
's Support vote for the closure of the Simple English Wiktionary (posted while logged out, apparently):
QUOTE
Some of these reasons are clearly specious, particularly the last, and also #5 and #6, which is sort of a straw-man argument which ignores the fact that English is considered a highly complex and inclusive language (more than most anyway), not to mention the lingua franca of the internet, if not the world. But others are spot-on, IMO, particularly #2 and #3. |
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| Random832 |
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#86
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meh Group: Regulars Posts: 1,933 Joined: Member No.: 4,844 |
QUOTE supererogative turgescency would be an excellent name for a band. |
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| CharlotteWebb |
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#87
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Postmaster General Group: Regulars Posts: 2,740 Joined: Member No.: 1,727 |
QUOTE(Random832 @ Mon 27th April 2009, 4:59pm) QUOTE supererogative turgescency would be an excellent name for a band.Yeah I get the feeling this user was deliberately using big obscure words to just see how many simplewiki aficionados might be alienated by them. In some ways that's not very nice, but in others it is rather entertaining (but not like Jahiegel's userbox, which is just stupid). |
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| Noroton |
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#88
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Senior Member Group: Inactive Posts: 382 Joined: Member No.: 10,759 |
QUOTE(thekohser @ Mon 27th April 2009, 11:58am) I really like the Jimmy Wales page on Simple Wikiquote: QUOTE: "Imagine a world in which every single person on the planet is given free access to the sum of all human knowledge. That's what we're doing." SIMPLE: Imagine that every person on Earth can find out what anyone else knows. That is what Wikipedia is doing. So, do you know what I know? Are you able to read my mind? I must -- must -- participate in this venture! Hmmmmmmmmm..... well, der Kohser certainly has participated: QUOTE [In response to reporter's question, Any updates on WikiaSearch?] "I have my team focused on the front end, working on the user experience, and making sure we have all the wiki-like tools people need to work on the site. We're just cranking away."[3] Simple: In a few days, I will be shutting down WikiaSearch. Interesting translation. |
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| American Eagle |
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#89
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Neophyte Group: Contributors Posts: 18 Joined: From: Michigan Member No.: 11,553 |
QUOTE(Noroton) QUOTE [In response to reporter's question, Any updates on WikiaSearch?] "I have my team focused on the front end, working on the user experience, and making sure we have all the wiki-like tools people need to work on the site. We're just cranking away."[3] Simple: In a few days, I will be shutting down WikiaSearch. Interesting translation. This translation was vandalism, and has been removed. This post has been edited by American Eagle: |
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| Jon Awbrey |
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#90
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Ï„á½° δΠμοι παθήματα μαθήματα γÎγονε Group: Moderators Posts: 6,783 Joined: From: Meat Puppet Nation Member No.: 5,619 |
QUOTE(American Eagle @ Mon 27th April 2009, 2:31pm) QUOTE QUOTE [In response to reporter's question, Any updates on WikiaSearch?] "I have my team focused on the front end, working on the user experience, and making sure we have all the wiki-like tools people need to work on the site. We're just cranking away."[3] Simple: In a few days, I will be shutting down WikiaSearch. Interesting translation. This translation was vandalism, and has been removed. Translation: In Wikipedia, Truth Is Vandalism. |
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| CharlotteWebb |
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#91
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Postmaster General Group: Regulars Posts: 2,740 Joined: Member No.: 1,727 |
QUOTE(Noroton @ Mon 27th April 2009, 6:10pm) QUOTE [In response to reporter's question, Any updates on WikiaSearch?] "I have my team focused on the front end, working on the user experience, and making sure we have all the wiki-like tools people need to work on the site. We're just cranking away."[3] Simple: In a few days, I will be shutting down WikiaSearch. Interesting translation. Well some quotes originated purely from simple english, but I would really like to know how the Kohser would translate read my lips, no new taxes (I mean, that was the first thing that came to my mind when I saw the domain name). (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif) No seriously this whole exercise looks like some bizarre King Jimbo Version vs. [whatever NIV could stand for in this context] slide-show. So unless somebody here can, like... read Aramaic... |
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| Apathetic |
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#92
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Ãœber Member Group: Regulars Posts: 594 Joined: Member No.: 7,383 |
QUOTE(the_undertow @ Mon 27th April 2009, 12:41am) Serious. I was almost too apathetic to even reply, but in this case, I felt Jon summed it up quite nicely. you can't even hold a candle to how much i don't care |
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| thekohser |
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#93
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Member Group: Regulars Posts: 10,274 Joined: Member No.: 911 |
QUOTE(CharlotteWebb @ Mon 27th April 2009, 3:13pm) Well some quotes originated purely from simple english, but I would really like to know how the Kohser would translate read my lips, no new taxes (I mean, that was the first thing that came to my mind when I saw the domain name). (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif) That's a challenge, because it is more difficult to "translate" a short, incisive quote like Bush's, than it is to do so with a long, fabricated quarter-truth such as Jimbo is so talented at uttering. I guess I'd do my best and say: "Listen to me, I'm not going to raise your taxes, until I'm in office and faced with record deficits." See? That didn't really get "simpler". Jimbo, on the other hand, is a lot easier to simplify: ORIGINAL: "Frankly, and let me be blunt, Wikipedia as a readable product is not for us. It's for them. It's for that girl in Africa who can save the lives of hundreds of thousands of people around her, but only if she's empowered with the knowledge to do so." SIMPLE: "Keep working, volunteers. I need that jet." +++++ ORIGINAL: "We are Wikipedians. This means that we should be: kind, thoughtful, passionate about getting it right, open, tolerant of different viewpoints, open to criticism, bold about changing our policies and also cautious about changing our policies. We are not vindictive, childish, and we don't stoop to the level of our worst critics, no matter how much we may find them to be annoying." SIMPLE: "Seth, you're an idiot." +++++ ORIGINAL: "Quite frankly, several of the people who contributed to the article should be banned from coming near a keyboard until they have learned to engage in proper encyclopedia writing." SIMPLE: "Mzoli's Meats is a butcher shop and restuarant (sic) located in Guguletu township near Cape Town, South Africa." +++++ ORIGINAL: "I have said this many times in the past and will say it many times in the future I am sure: some people need to find a different hobby, because whatever they are here for, it is not to help build an encyclopedia." SIMPLE: "hang on a second let's actually do this right now because the last thing I want to do is take a break from fucking your brains out all night to work on your wikipedia entry" +++++ I have to stop there, because it's just too easy, and it might come off as most unseemly to continue. Greg |
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| American Eagle |
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#94
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Neophyte Group: Contributors Posts: 18 Joined: From: Michigan Member No.: 11,553 |
QUOTE(thekohser @ Mon 27th April 2009, 7:59pm) QUOTE(CharlotteWebb @ Mon 27th April 2009, 3:13pm) Well some quotes originated purely from simple english, but I would really like to know how the Kohser would translate read my lips, no new taxes (I mean, that was the first thing that came to my mind when I saw the domain name). (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif) That's a challenge, because it is more difficult to "translate" a short, incisive quote like Bush's, than it is to do so with a long, fabricated quarter-truth such as Jimbo is so talented at uttering. I guess I'd do my best and say: "Listen to me, I'm not going to raise your taxes, until I'm in office and faced with record deficits." See? That didn't really get "simpler". Jimbo, on the other hand, is a lot easier to simplify: ORIGINAL: "Frankly, and let me be blunt, Wikipedia as a readable product is not for us. It's for them. It's for that girl in Africa who can save the lives of hundreds of thousands of people around her, but only if she's empowered with the knowledge to do so." SIMPLE: "Keep working, volunteers. I need that jet." +++++ ORIGINAL: "We are Wikipedians. This means that we should be: kind, thoughtful, passionate about getting it right, open, tolerant of different viewpoints, open to criticism, bold about changing our policies and also cautious about changing our policies. We are not vindictive, childish, and we don't stoop to the level of our worst critics, no matter how much we may find them to be annoying." SIMPLE: "Seth, you're an idiot." +++++ ORIGINAL: "Quite frankly, several of the people who contributed to the article should be banned from coming near a keyboard until they have learned to engage in proper encyclopedia writing." SIMPLE: "Mzoli's Meats is a butcher shop and restuarant (sic) located in Guguletu township near Cape Town, South Africa." +++++ ORIGINAL: "I have said this many times in the past and will say it many times in the future I am sure: some people need to find a different hobby, because whatever they are here for, it is not to help build an encyclopedia." SIMPLE: "hang on a second let's actually do this right now because the last thing I want to do is take a break from fucking your brains out all night to work on your wikipedia entry" +++++ I have to stop there, because it's just too easy, and it might come off as most unseemly to continue. Greg The point of simplifying quotes is to define what they mean. These versions (albeit jokes) change what Jimbo Wales meant. We have a clear purpose, and despite errors, we are fighting for that. |
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| thekohser |
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#95
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Member Group: Regulars Posts: 10,274 Joined: Member No.: 911 |
QUOTE(American Eagle @ Mon 27th April 2009, 4:15pm) We have a clear purpose, and despite errors, we are fighting for that. Keep on fighting. When you've finally won, I have another site where we're trying to fight for order and precision. Come join us! By the way, how old are you, American Eagle? I'm guessing 22. This post has been edited by thekohser: |
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| UseOnceAndDestroy |
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#96
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Ãœber Member Group: Moderators Posts: 568 Joined: Member No.: 4,073 |
QUOTE(American Eagle @ Mon 27th April 2009, 9:15pm) The point of simplifying quotes is to define what they mean. These versions (albeit jokes) change what Jimbo Wales meant. We have a clear purpose, and despite errors, we are fighting for that. You know, at this point, I'm reminded that dogged determination to disallow humour aimed at the group or its leader is one of the identifying features of a cult. |
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| American Eagle |
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#97
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Neophyte Group: Contributors Posts: 18 Joined: From: Michigan Member No.: 11,553 |
QUOTE(UseOnceAndDestroy @ Mon 27th April 2009, 8:49pm) QUOTE(American Eagle @ Mon 27th April 2009, 9:15pm) The point of simplifying quotes is to define what they mean. These versions (albeit jokes) change what Jimbo Wales meant. We have a clear purpose, and despite errors, we are fighting for that. You know, at this point, I'm reminded that dogged determination to disallow humour aimed at the group or its leader is one of the identifying features of a cult. Err... I'm not the "leader". We are a growing community. |
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| thekohser |
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#98
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Member Group: Regulars Posts: 10,274 Joined: Member No.: 911 |
QUOTE(American Eagle @ Mon 27th April 2009, 4:54pm) QUOTE(UseOnceAndDestroy @ Mon 27th April 2009, 8:49pm) QUOTE(American Eagle @ Mon 27th April 2009, 9:15pm) The point of simplifying quotes is to define what they mean. These versions (albeit jokes) change what Jimbo Wales meant. We have a clear purpose, and despite errors, we are fighting for that. You know, at this point, I'm reminded that dogged determination to disallow humour aimed at the group or its leader is one of the identifying features of a cult. Err... I'm not the "leader". We are a growing community. I'm revising my age guess down to 17. |
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| American Eagle |
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#99
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Neophyte Group: Contributors Posts: 18 Joined: From: Michigan Member No.: 11,553 |
QUOTE(thekohser @ Mon 27th April 2009, 8:47pm) I'm revising my age guess down to 17. I have not kept my age a secret: I am indeed a teenager. |
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| The Wales Hunter |
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#100
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Hackenslasher Group: Regulars Posts: 869 Joined: Member No.: 4,319 |
And a Christian fundamentalist who probably thinks it's their duty to combat the "liberal agenda" across WMF projects? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)
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| Eva Destruction |
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#101
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Fat Cat Group: Regulars Posts: 1,735 Joined: Member No.: 3,301 |
QUOTE(thekohser @ Mon 27th April 2009, 9:55pm) QUOTE(American Eagle @ Mon 27th April 2009, 4:54pm) QUOTE(UseOnceAndDestroy @ Mon 27th April 2009, 8:49pm) QUOTE(American Eagle @ Mon 27th April 2009, 9:15pm) The point of simplifying quotes is to define what they mean. These versions (albeit jokes) change what Jimbo Wales meant. We have a clear purpose, and despite errors, we are fighting for that. You know, at this point, I'm reminded that dogged determination to disallow humour aimed at the group or its leader is one of the identifying features of a cult. Err... I'm not the "leader". We are a growing community. I'm revising my age guess down to 17. I'm revising mine to 13. |
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| American Eagle |
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#102
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Neophyte Group: Contributors Posts: 18 Joined: From: Michigan Member No.: 11,553 |
QUOTE(The Wales Hunter @ Mon 27th April 2009, 9:17pm) And a Christian fundamentalist who probably thinks it's their duty to combat the "liberal agenda" across WMF projects? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif) Actually, if you look at my Wikimedia history, I'm one of the most neutral Christians across the foundation. I keep a NPOV, and if I don't, please tell me when and how. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif) |
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| The Wales Hunter |
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#103
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Hackenslasher Group: Regulars Posts: 869 Joined: Member No.: 4,319 |
QUOTE(American Eagle @ Mon 27th April 2009, 10:49pm) QUOTE(The Wales Hunter @ Mon 27th April 2009, 9:17pm) And a Christian fundamentalist who probably thinks it's their duty to combat the "liberal agenda" across WMF projects? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif) Actually, if you look at my Wikimedia history, I'm one of the most neutral Christians across the foundation. I keep a NPOV, and if I don't, please tell me when and how. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif) And you don't watch CM16's back on Simple English Wikipedia just because you believe in the fairy stories of the same Jewish hang-man? |
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| American Eagle |
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#104
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Neophyte Group: Contributors Posts: 18 Joined: From: Michigan Member No.: 11,553 |
QUOTE(Eva Destruction @ Mon 27th April 2009, 9:48pm) I'm revising mine to 13. I'm older, but whatever. QUOTE(The Wales Hunter @ Mon 27th April 2009, 9:51pm) And you don't watch CM16's back on Simple English Wikipedia just because you believe in the fairy stories of the same Jewish hang-man? No, I opposed his ban because he is a good user in the encyclopedic namespace (which is what truly matters). I've stayed out of the continuing discussion, though. |
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| The Wales Hunter |
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#105
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Hackenslasher Group: Regulars Posts: 869 Joined: Member No.: 4,319 |
To highlight the point raised about namespace being all that matters, one of the problems with Simple English Wikipedia is the awful understanding of the English language by many of the users.
And the proportion of users who claim some sort of mental illness or other is almost amusingly high. |
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| Eva Destruction |
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#106
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Fat Cat Group: Regulars Posts: 1,735 Joined: Member No.: 3,301 |
QUOTE(American Eagle @ Mon 27th April 2009, 10:49pm) QUOTE(The Wales Hunter @ Mon 27th April 2009, 9:17pm) And a Christian fundamentalist who probably thinks it's their duty to combat the "liberal agenda" across WMF projects? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif) Actually, if you look at my Wikimedia history, I'm one of the most neutral Christians across the foundation. I keep a NPOV, and if I don't, please tell me when and how. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif) "Jesus was a real person, that is not debated." O rly? This post has been edited by Eva Destruction: |
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| American Eagle |
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#107
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Neophyte Group: Contributors Posts: 18 Joined: From: Michigan Member No.: 11,553 |
QUOTE(Eva Destruction @ Mon 27th April 2009, 10:03pm) Heh. This was agreed upon (not that it isn't disputed, but that most historical works agree) by the community of Simple English Wikipedia. Read "The Case for Christ" or "The Case for Easter". My edit summary wasn't fully explained. Yes, it is debated, but not by the mainstream world. Some people still believe the earth is flat. |
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| Somey |
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#108
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Can't actually moderate (or even post) Group: Moderators Posts: 11,816 Joined: From: Dreamland Member No.: 275 |
QUOTE(American Eagle @ Mon 27th April 2009, 4:49pm) Actually, if you look at my Wikimedia history, I'm one of the most neutral Christians across the foundation. I keep a NPOV, and if I don't, please tell me when and how. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif) I'm not sure "NPOV" is even relevant in your case - looking over your contribs on Simple English WikiQuote, the ratio of talk/maintenance edits to quote-additions/new articles appears to be somewhere in the neighborhood of 100:1. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, though. But if you look at this newly-created article, for example, one might easily think this is little more than an excuse for spamming a few links to one of your favorite politicians onto yet another WMF project site. Personally, I'd have no objection to your tendency to work the system on behalf of Christians and Christian politicians... then again, when you look at something like this, you have to wonder: Why no quote-simplifications? (There's one in there, but it's hardly a simplification, is it?) |
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| Eva Destruction |
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#109
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Fat Cat Group: Regulars Posts: 1,735 Joined: Member No.: 3,301 |
QUOTE(American Eagle @ Mon 27th April 2009, 11:08pm) QUOTE(Eva Destruction @ Mon 27th April 2009, 10:03pm) Heh. This was agreed upon (not that it isn't disputed, but that most historical works agree) by the community of Simple English Wikipedia. Read "The Case for Christ" or "The Case for Easter". My edit summary wasn't fully explained. Yes, it is debated, but not by the mainstream world. Some people still believe the earth is flat. Mate, it's disputed by between 75% to 90% of the world, depending on how you measure. |
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| Somey |
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#110
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Can't actually moderate (or even post) Group: Moderators Posts: 11,816 Joined: From: Dreamland Member No.: 275 |
QUOTE(American Eagle @ Mon 27th April 2009, 5:08pm) Yes, it is debated, but not by the mainstream world. Some people still believe the earth is flat. It can be scientifically proven that the Earth isn't flat, though. |
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| American Eagle |
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#111
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Neophyte Group: Contributors Posts: 18 Joined: From: Michigan Member No.: 11,553 |
QUOTE(Eva Destruction @ Mon 27th April 2009, 10:10pm) QUOTE(American Eagle @ Mon 27th April 2009, 11:08pm) QUOTE(Eva Destruction @ Mon 27th April 2009, 10:03pm) Heh. This was agreed upon (not that it isn't disputed, but that most historical works agree) by the community of Simple English Wikipedia. Read "The Case for Christ" or "The Case for Easter". My edit summary wasn't fully explained. Yes, it is debated, but not by the mainstream world. Some people still believe the earth is flat. Mate, it's disputed by between 75% to 90% of the world, depending on how you measure. I don't mean Jesus dying on the cross and saving the world from sin (the Christian belief). I only mean him being a real person. But whatever. QUOTE(Somey @ Mon 27th April 2009, 10:11pm) QUOTE(American Eagle @ Mon 27th April 2009, 5:08pm) Yes, it is debated, but not by the mainstream world. Some people still believe the earth is flat. It can be scientifically proven that the Earth isn't flat, though. Yes, I know. That's called faith, which I don't expect you to understand. You win that. This discussion has become pointless. You all can hate Simple English Wikiquote, and me. I'm not really worried about that |
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| Somey |
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#112
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Can't actually moderate (or even post) Group: Moderators Posts: 11,816 Joined: From: Dreamland Member No.: 275 |
QUOTE(American Eagle @ Mon 27th April 2009, 5:21pm) This discussion has become pointless. You all can hate Simple English Wikiquote, and me. I'm not really worried about that I'm not so sure anymore, personally... (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/hmmm.gif) I mean, another example is Fireproof, a Christian-evangelical production which appears to be one of Mr. Eagle's favorite movies. (He also started a page for Kirk Cameron, who starred in it, and Alex Kendrick, who also made Flywheel and Facing the Giants, for which Mr. Eagle also started WikiQuote pages. In fact, looking at his articles-created list, I'd say just about every name on that list that I hadn't already heard of before is that of an evangelical minister or politician. Except for Anton LaVey, of course... not sure what he's doing in there, but there's only one quote, and technically, Satanism is a religion. |
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| Eva Destruction |
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#113
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Fat Cat Group: Regulars Posts: 1,735 Joined: Member No.: 3,301 |
QUOTE(American Eagle @ Mon 27th April 2009, 11:21pm) I don't mean Jesus dying on the cross and saving the world from sin (the Christian belief). I only mean him being a real person. But whatever. So do I. The "evidence" for Jesus's existence, outside of biblical sources, is a likely forged addition to Tacitus's Annals 15, the almost-certainly-forged Testimonium Flavianum, and a highly dubious passing mention in Josephus. Although since you appear to think that (personal opinion)+(dubious source)=(truth), you should fit right in at Wikipedia. QUOTE(American Eagle @ Mon 27th April 2009, 11:21pm) This discussion has become pointless. You all can hate Simple English Wikiquote, and me. I'm not really worried about that I don't think anyone here hates Simple English Wikiquote. In fact, I don't think anyone here except you gives a flying fuck about Simple English Wikiquote. |
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| Somey |
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#114
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Can't actually moderate (or even post) Group: Moderators Posts: 11,816 Joined: From: Dreamland Member No.: 275 |
QUOTE(American Eagle @ Mon 27th April 2009, 5:21pm) Yes, I know. That's called faith, which I don't expect you to understand. You win that. Personally, I do believe Jesus Christ was a real person. But that's based on a preponderance of circumstantial and anecdotal evidence leading to a high probability, not on science, or even on official records from the period (which are sketchy at best). I'm not going to pretend that His existence can be proven scientifically, certainly not in the way the shape of the Earth can be proven. |
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| Eva Destruction |
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#115
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Fat Cat Group: Regulars Posts: 1,735 Joined: Member No.: 3,301 |
QUOTE(Somey @ Mon 27th April 2009, 11:25pm) QUOTE(American Eagle @ Mon 27th April 2009, 5:21pm) This discussion has become pointless. You all can hate Simple English Wikiquote, and me. I'm not really worried about that I'm not so sure anymore, personally... (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/hmmm.gif) I mean, another example is Fireproof, a Christian-evangelical production which appears to be one of Mr. Eagle's favorite movies. (He also started a page for Kirk Cameron, who starred in it, and Alex Kendrick, who also made Flywheel and Facing the Giants, for which Mr. Eagle also started WikiQuote pages. In fact, looking at his articles-created list, I'd say just about every name on that list that I hadn't already heard of before is that of an evangelical minister or politician. Except for Anton LaVey, of course... not sure what he's doing in there, but there's only one quote, and technically, Satanism is a religion. His most-edited-pages list on Simple makes for interesting reading, too. QUOTE(Somey @ Mon 27th April 2009, 11:25pm) QUOTE(American Eagle @ Mon 27th April 2009, 5:21pm) This discussion has become pointless. You all can hate Simple English Wikiquote, and me. I'm not really worried about that I'm not so sure anymore, personally... (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/hmmm.gif) I mean, another example is Fireproof, a Christian-evangelical production which appears to be one of Mr. Eagle's favorite movies. (He also started a page for Kirk Cameron, who starred in it, and Alex Kendrick, who also made Flywheel and Facing the Giants, for which Mr. Eagle also started WikiQuote pages. In fact, looking at his articles-created list, I'd say just about every name on that list that I hadn't already heard of before is that of an evangelical minister or politician. Except for Anton LaVey, of course... not sure what he's doing in there, but there's only one quote, and technically, Satanism is a religion. You forgot spamming for ChristianCinema.com. |
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| American Eagle |
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#116
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Neophyte Group: Contributors Posts: 18 Joined: From: Michigan Member No.: 11,553 |
QUOTE(Eva Destruction @ Mon 27th April 2009, 10:33pm) QUOTE(Somey @ Mon 27th April 2009, 11:25pm) QUOTE(American Eagle @ Mon 27th April 2009, 5:21pm) This discussion has become pointless. You all can hate Simple English Wikiquote, and me. I'm not really worried about that I'm not so sure anymore, personally... (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/hmmm.gif) I mean, another example is Fireproof, a Christian-evangelical production which appears to be one of Mr. Eagle's favorite movies. (He also started a page for Kirk Cameron, who starred in it, and Alex Kendrick, who also made Flywheel and Facing the Giants, for which Mr. Eagle also started WikiQuote pages. In fact, looking at his articles-created list, I'd say just about every name on that list that I hadn't already heard of before is that of an evangelical minister or politician. Except for Anton LaVey, of course... not sure what he's doing in there, but there's only one quote, and technically, Satanism is a religion. His most-edited-pages list on Simple makes for interesting reading, too. QUOTE(Somey @ Mon 27th April 2009, 11:25pm) QUOTE(American Eagle @ Mon 27th April 2009, 5:21pm) This discussion has become pointless. You all can hate Simple English Wikiquote, and me. I'm not really worried about that I'm not so sure anymore, personally... (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/hmmm.gif) I mean, another example is Fireproof, a Christian-evangelical production which appears to be one of Mr. Eagle's favorite movies. (He also started a page for Kirk Cameron, who starred in it, and Alex Kendrick, who also made Flywheel and Facing the Giants, for which Mr. Eagle also started WikiQuote pages. In fact, looking at his articles-created list, I'd say just about every name on that list that I hadn't already heard of before is that of an evangelical minister or politician. Except for Anton LaVey, of course... not sure what he's doing in there, but there's only one quote, and technically, Satanism is a religion. You forgot spamming for ChristianCinema.com. Those are just topics I like to write on. I don't write "Fireproof is the best movie ever." I keep a NPOV, even if those are topics I like (you aren't required to edit only specific pages). |
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| MZMcBride |
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#117
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Ãœber Member Group: Regulars Posts: 671 Joined: Member No.: 10,962 |
QUOTE(jayvdb @ Mon 27th April 2009, 5:25am) QUOTE(MZMcBride @ Mon 27th April 2009, 3:12pm) I've advocated for killing Wikiquote and for killing the entire Simple series. (Or moving them to another Foundation, at least.) Simple English Wikiquote simply drips with fail. I enjoyed the "Wikiquote must die" discussion; where is the "please dont be simple" edition? The last legitimate attempt to kill Simple was here: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_f...h_(2)_Wikipedia Of course the key issue is that we allow people who primarily contribute to the Simple projects to vote. Which is nicely democratic, but ends up killing each and every proposal to end these mistakes. And it's anathema to advertise the discussions on any project other than the projects being discussed, so nobody ever knows about these obscure votes at Meta. Some sort of weighted voting system combined with a better advertising system would likely work much better. For reference, this is the most recent discussion that I'm aware of regarding disbanding all Wikiquotes: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_F...nding_Wikiquote |
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| written by he who wrote it |
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#118
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Commie Mutant Traitor Group: Contributors Posts: 95 Joined: Member No.: 431 |
QUOTE(Eva Destruction @ Mon 27th April 2009, 10:29pm) So do I. The "evidence" for Jesus's existence, outside of biblical sources, is a likely forged addition to Tacitus's Annals 15, O RLY? Do you know how many manuscript copies of that passage (Annals 15.44) exist? (One (1). I don't need Google to confirm that, nor to remember the name of the book. Senior thesis.) If you did know, how can you assert that it is "likely forged"? QUOTE(Eva Destruction @ Mon 27th April 2009, 10:29pm) the almost-certainly-forged Testimonium Flavianum, and a highly dubious passing mention in Josephus. Those references, on the other hand, are questionable at best; the first was more probably emended (hah!), the second less so. Me, I lean towards the conclusion that he was a real person; I'm agnostic on the question of whether the extant texts are accurate depictions of his life and death. Then again, stories don't need to be true. . . |
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| Noroton |
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#119
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Senior Member Group: Inactive Posts: 382 Joined: Member No.: 10,759 |
It's not just that he existed -- for which there is plenty of proof, better than for many other figures of antiquity whom historians assume existed, based on the evidence we have in those cases. It's also a fact that this one person evidently had such an enormous impact on those around him, and an impact that expanded so far in space and time (and still is). It's hard to come up with a better explanation than that the Gospel was about the teachings of one person, with others writing about him. The alternatives -- some kind of hoax, mistake, communal delusion? -- make it difficult to account for the strength of the moral vision in the Gospels and the rest of the New Testament. It's possible to come up with those kinds of explanations, but they don't seem to cohere nearly as well as the simplest explanation: This was one extraordinary man, even God. The historical evidence gets me very close to believing he is God. What pushes me over the top is simply reading and contemplating the Gospels and the New Testament. Maybe it's faith or maybe it's just a different kind of evidence from historical or scientific, but I find it easier -- that is, more sensible, more reasonable -- to believe than to not believe.
The four books of the Gospel themselves are historical evidence, and simply because they advocate his Godhood doesn't mean that, even if you reject the idea of his Godhood, they stop being evidence of various things (such as his existence), just like other historical documents. As far as existence of the person goes, we probably have better evidence for Jesus than for Muhammad and Bhudda and St. Paul and Confucius, the only other people I can think of that even come close to Jesus in terms of historical influence. I suppose some scholars must have advocated the position that each of these never actually existed either, but you don't tend to hear about that much, and it runs into the same problems: the easier, simpler, more direct explanation is that they existed. Occam's razor, and all that. |
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| thekohser |
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#120
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Member Group: Regulars Posts: 10,274 Joined: Member No.: 911 |
QUOTE(Eva Destruction @ Mon 27th April 2009, 6:33pm) User talk 184 - American_Eagle (wiki-addicted teenager giving me trouble on Simple) 111 - RyanCross 105 - ChristianMan16 85 - Razorflame (wiki-addicted student giving me LOTS of trouble on Yahoo!) 49 - Gwib 33 - Chenzw 30 - Eptalon 24 - The_Rambling_Man (giving me trouble on Simple) 22 - Andrew_from_NC/Archive_1 20 - Fairfield So, it would seem that they run in packs in order to harass me. I figured as much. This post has been edited by thekohser: |
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