Philosophy: remind me not to be so stupid, Who needs experts Options

[Peter Damian]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Philosophy

I keep coming back to this page, mainly because it gets 5,000 hits a day (that's nearly 2m people a year rely on it as a source of knowledge about an academic subject. I am taking on 4 people only 1 of whom has any kind of formal qualification that I can see. Someone claims

Kant, in particular, claimed that there were philosophical questions that could only be answered by going beyond reason.

I point out that the guy, by his own admission, has never read any Kant. And someone else claims

Whether someone has read Kant is not relevant
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Philosop...uote_of_the_day

Someone please tell me, and keep reminding me, that anyone who gets involved with this project is fundamentally insane. thank you.


(What they are objecting to is a version of the introduction which was written by myself and a professional philosopher and which was good enough to be used by Trinity College Dublin in their prospectus. Let's just step back and see ....)

This post has been edited by Peter Damian:

[Saltimbanco]

Someone please tell me, and keep reminding me, that anyone who gets involved with this project is fundamentally insane. thank you.

Just keep repeating to yourself, "Wikipedia: the encyclopedia that anyone can edit," again and again until it starts sounding to you like, "Wikipedia: the encyclopedia that ANYONE can edit," and until, on the word "anyone," you start having visions of some of the more regrettable acquaintances you've made in your life, like the kid in elementary school who threw rocks at kittens; the door-to-door evangelist who insisted on making clear to you, with a knowing glance, that "unclean" in the bible refers to "women's monthly issues;" the fat lady at Wal-Mart who was beating her kid; the car salesman who, by way of demonstrating his "honesty," declared that the three things that mattered to him were, "God, my family, and my business, in that order;" the guy on that "show us your video" television program who used his roommate's toothbrush to clean the toilet; former US Senator Trent Lott; the stupid loud frat boy in your first intro to anthropology class who came in fifteen minutes late -- missing the long and pained explanation from the professor about how anthropology strove not to make judgments, but only to establish facts and to hypothesize causal links -- only to raise his hand at the first opportunity, self-importantly to note that evolution is not an undisputed fact; the co-worker whose main concern regarding the women in your office was deciding whether or not they liked it in the ass; former televangelist Ted Haggard; Karl Rove; Ted Kennedy; Linda Mack; the fourteen year old who thought it was his place to tell you what life is like; the guy in your freshman class who would insist, "Mark mah wurds: tha Sath's gunna ri-ise agin';" your dippy ex-girlfriend who thought dolphins were more important than people; a few of your other ex-girlfriends; everyone who ever stuck a Ron Paul sticker in a publicly viewable place; Jimbo Wales; the white lady in South Africa whose door you knocked on by accident and who decided based on no more than the color of your skin that it was appropriate to chat with you about how the blacks had ruined everything and white people needed to stick together; David Gerard; Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, and Bill O'Reilly; people who listen to Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, and Bill O'Reilly for anything other than prurient interest; etc.

This post has been edited by Saltimbanco:

[darbyl]

Someone please tell me, and keep reminding me, that anyone who gets involved with this project is fundamentally insane. thank you.

Just keep repeating to yourself, "Wikipedia: the encyclopedia that anyone can edit," again and again until it starts sounding to you like, "Wikipedia: the encyclopedia that ANYONE can edit," and until, on the word "anyone," you start having visions of some of the more regrettable acquaintances you've made in your life...

list o'shame snipped

Wow Salty, tell us how you really feel (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/blink.gif)

I utterly agree though. Apparently those who value the "wisdom of the crowds" have never actually been in a crowd.

This post has been edited by darbyl:

[Milton Roe]

Someone please tell me, and keep reminding me, that anyone who gets involved with this project is fundamentally insane. thank you.

Just keep repeating to yourself, "Wikipedia: the encyclopedia that anyone can edit," again and again until it starts sounding to you like, "Wikipedia: the encyclopedia that ANYONE can edit," and until, on the word "anyone," you start having visions of some of the more regrettable acquaintances you've made in your life...

list o'shame snipped

Wow Salty, tell us how you really feel (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/blink.gif)

I utterly agree though. Apparently those who value the "wisdom of the crowds" have never actually been in a crowd.

And yet. Only a few of the people listed are complete drones. Most of them support themselves by doing something useful in an economy. The model for anything as complicated as an encyclopedia of all human knowledge SHOULD be the (WHOLE) economy. Not some doofus model of a bunch of editors at some stuffy encyclopedia company, soliciting articles from an even more stuffy group of academics at universities. It's just a bigger job than that. And nobody figured that out until Wikipedia succeeded to the extent that it has. Nor did Sanger (and certainly not Wales) figure it out beforehand. But it turns out to be true-- a fact found by accident, like vulcanization of rubber.

Okay. As Asimov says, the most powerful words of discovery in science are not "Eureka!! Eureka!!" but "Huh, that's funny..."

Take a look at WP. A good look. Weird. The amazing thing is not how bad it is. We all knew how bad it could be, and why. The amazing thing is how good it is. So open your eyes and say "Huh, that's funny." And view it as Xerox PARC fumbling the mouse and WYSIWYG. You don't laugh at Xerox when you see they have no idea what to do with what they have. You steal from them. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unsure.gif)

This post has been edited by Milton Roe:

[darbyl]

Someone please tell me, and keep reminding me, that anyone who gets involved with this project is fundamentally insane. thank you.

Just keep repeating to yourself, "Wikipedia: the encyclopedia that anyone can edit," again and again until it starts sounding to you like, "Wikipedia: the encyclopedia that ANYONE can edit," and until, on the word "anyone," you start having visions of some of the more regrettable acquaintances you've made in your life...

list o'shame snipped

Wow Salty, tell us how you really feel (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/blink.gif)

I utterly agree though. Apparently those who value the "wisdom of the crowds" have never actually been in a crowd.

And yet. Only a few of the people listed are complete drones. Most of them support themselves by doing something useful in an economy. The model for anything as complicated as an encyclopedia of all human knowledge SHOULD be the (WHOLE) economy. Not some doofus model of a bunch of editors at some stuffy encyclopedia company, soliciting articles from an even more stuffy group of academics at universities. It's just a bigger job than that. And nobody figured that out until Wikipedia succeeded to the extent that it has. Nor did Sanger (and certainly not Wales) figure it out beforehand. But it turns out to be true-- a fact found by accident, like vulcanization of rubber.

Okay. As Asimov says, the most powerful words of discovery in science are not "Eureka!! Eureka!!" but "Huh, that's funny..."

Take a look at WP. A good look. Weird. The amazing thing is not how bad it is. We all knew how bad it could be, and why. The amazing thing is how good it is. So open your eyes and say "Huh, that's funny." And view it as Xerox PARC fumbling the mouse and WYSIWYG. You don't laugh at Xerox when you see they have no idea what to do with what they have. You steal from them. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unsure.gif)

The problem with being the "sum of all human knowledge" is, to quote Theodore Sturgeon, "90 percent of everything is crap." Wikipedia is the product of a mob, and I think that history has adequately proven that mobs don't produce a quality product. The fact that this mob is composed of "editors" on the intartubes doesn't make it any different than a bunch of yokels with torches and pitchforks. One day, and I think that day is coming soon, the mob will move on to the next diversion; and Wikipedia will be just a footnote in the history books (and those history books will be written by professionals).

[Milton Roe]

The problem with being the "sum of all human knowledge" is, to quote Theodore Sturgeon, "90 percent of everything is crap." Wikipedia is the product of a mob, and I think that history has adequately proven that mobs don't produce a quality product. The fact that this mob is composed of "editors" on the intartubes doesn't make it any different than a bunch of yokels with torches and pitchforks. One day, and I think that day is coming soon, the mob will move on to the next diversion; and Wikipedia will be just a footnote in the history books (and those history books will be written by professionals).

Well, I guess you're not exactly a populist. Because the economy that supports you, the city you live in, and the democratic political system that runs your country, are all products of this very same bunch of yokels with torches and pitchforks. One guesses that you're arguing that we should remove all power from them and turn it all over to the aristoi, eh? Not the unwashed masses, but people of proper culture and breeding, yea the very intelligentsia, who will make wise choices for all? Poor proletariat-- for the time being, they don't really have the wherewithal to make good decisions, and must be treated like children, until they can. It's the educated man's burden.... (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/dry.gif)

This post has been edited by Milton Roe: