Third RfC, Third strike? Options

[Cla68]

A third RfC has been dropped on JzG. I haven't read through it yet.

[Alex]

A third RfC has been dropped on JzG. I haven't read through it yet.

He tried to MFD it, incredibly unsuccessfully, earlier today. God knows why.

[Cla68]

A third RfC has been dropped on JzG. I haven't read through it yet.

He tried to MFD it, incredibly unsuccessfully, earlier today. God knows why.

Perhaps Jechochman, since he has an account here, could come by and explain why he's opposing the RfC so vehemently. I haven't finished reviewing the entire thing and looked at all of the diffs and links, but it seems at first glance that the RfC's primary editor's reasoning has some merit.

[Son of a Yeti]

Perhaps Jechochman, since he has an account here, could come by and explain why he's opposing the RfC so vehemently. I haven't finished reviewing the entire thing and looked at all of the diffs and links, but it seems at first glance that the RfC's primary editor's reasoning has some merit.

I'm really saddened by the number of sycophants Guy managed to gather as his retinue.

I believe Guy is the most deleterious admin Wikipedia has (at least since SV has been sent to WR).

[Cla68]

Perhaps Jechochman, since he has an account here, could come by and explain why he's opposing the RfC so vehemently. I haven't finished reviewing the entire thing and looked at all of the diffs and links, but it seems at first glance that the RfC's primary editor's reasoning has some merit.

I'm really saddened by the number of sycophants Guy managed to gather as his retinue.

I believe Guy is the most deleterious admin Wikipedia has (at least since SV has been sent to WR).

Well, note that when he tried to MfD the RfC, hardly anyone supported him. Slightly more than a year go in this situation, FeloniousMonk, MONGO, Jossi, Jayjg, Mantanmoreland, ElinorD, Crum375, and a few others would probably have all shown up within a few minutes of each other to support its deletion.

This post has been edited by Cla68: Mon 6th April 2009, 5:55am

[EricBarbour]

As I said in the MZMcBride desysop thread, this is classic Guy:

JzG blocked 5 IPs for "block evasion", stating or implying that the edits were by Jed Rothwell, even though two of them are from the wrong geographical area and were unsigned; Jed Rothwell consistently signs his edits.

Focus of present RfC
The most serious incidents reported in this RfC, which is confined to use of tools while involved, took place in December of 2008, with extension into January. JzG since became quite inactive. This RfC, though, is not based on a judgment of JzG's actions overall, but only the specific issue of use of tools while involved, which, in the absence of any acknowledgment of the problem, can be expected to continue. Nevertheless, a review of his related contributions in the specific field of concern, here, show a continuation of prior behavior, and the conflicts exacerbated by the prior behavior continued. Here, though, instead of merely insulting a webmaster or making tendentious -- and later unsupported -- claims of copyright violation, he blacklisted and blocked, much more quietly. The specific issues of the blacklisting and blocks have not been addressed with caution in any neutral forum, and, once gain, this RfC has attempted to avoid the issue of whether JzG was "right" or "wrong," i.e., whether or not some particular action -- or even all actions -- would be later supported or stand. The issue here is extremely simple.
Is use of tools while involved acceptable behavior? If it is not acceptable, how do we address it? Gentle reminders have not worked.

It is literally a miracle. He isn't getting the usual ass-snorkeling from the usual fellow creeps.
What a strange sight. Even Durova has turned.

I hope this new, less-corrupt Arbcom goes after Jayjg next.
If they do, and make it stick, it's party time.

This post has been edited by EricBarbour: Mon 6th April 2009, 7:59am

[Son of a Yeti]

I hope this new, less-corrupt Arbcom goes after Jayjg next.
If they do, and make it stick, it's party time.

I wish Wikipedia well. Therefore I do hope you are right.

[Obesity]

I believe Guy is the most deleterious admin Wikipedia has (at least since SV has been sent to WR).

Uhhh.... does that, like, mean he likes to delete articles and shit?

[CharlotteWebb]

Uhhh.... does that, like, mean he likes to delete articles and shit?

Yeah, those are his two favorite things to do on WP.

[EricBarbour]

Uhhh.... does that, like, mean he likes to delete articles and shit?

Yeah, those are his two favorite things to do on WP.

And nobody dares to clean the shit up.

[Angela Kennedy]

From:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:JzG..._comment.2FJzG3

You are a complete waste of my limited time. I am seriously wondering if you are on the autistic spectrum, your obsession with this is beyond any rational explanation. Guy (Help!) 08:33, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Nice. Accuse someone of having a neurological condition because his actions are "beyond any rational explanation?" WTF? Or does autism spectrum = insanity in Guy's world?


But also - this is funny:

Incidentally, my friend who worked with Fleischmann is a world class expert on electrochemistry with a publicaiton list as long as your arm, an endowed chair at a British university, a worldwide lecture schedule and a standard undergraduate text to his name. And he thinks it's not fusion. And he wrote one of the control systems for one of Fleischmann's original experiments. Beware the appeal to authority. Guy (Help!) 23:36, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

My italics. Or am I missing something here? Is Guy being hilariously ironic or something?

[UseOnceAndDestroy]

A third RfC has been dropped on JzG. I haven't read through it yet.

Spring has sprung, must be time for another JzG RFC. Since last year's was just so effective, right?

Next year, could you guys put some jokes in the statement?

[Sarcasticidealist]

Incidentally, my friend who worked with Fleischmann is a world class expert on electrochemistry with a publicaiton list as long as your arm, an endowed chair at a British university, a worldwide lecture schedule and a standard undergraduate text to his name. And he thinks it's not fusion. And he wrote one of the control systems for one of Fleischmann's original experiments. Beware the appeal to authority. Guy (Help!) 23:36, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

My italics. Or am I missing something here? Is Guy being hilariously ironic or something?

You didn't link to the original occurrence, but my assumption would be that that was posted in response to an appeal to authority from the other side, in order to demonstrate the tit for tat nature of these things. Is that not the case?

[The Joy]

How many JzG RFCs does it take to get to the center of a desysop?

The world may never know.

[EricBarbour]

Next year, could you guys put some jokes in the statement?

Would, if Guy weren't so damn not-funny.

[Angela Kennedy]

Incidentally, my friend who worked with Fleischmann is a world class expert on electrochemistry with a publicaiton list as long as your arm, an endowed chair at a British university, a worldwide lecture schedule and a standard undergraduate text to his name. And he thinks it's not fusion. And he wrote one of the control systems for one of Fleischmann's original experiments. Beware the appeal to authority. Guy (Help!) 23:36, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

My italics. Or am I missing something here? Is Guy being hilariously ironic or something?

You didn't link to the original occurrence, but my assumption would be that that was posted in response to an appeal to authority from the other side, in order to demonstrate the tit for tat nature of these things. Is that not the case?

To be honest I couldn't find the context, hence my asking. It's not being represented as a response of that sort on the RFC as far as I can see though, rather as a reliance on his friend's opinion and status.

The problem with Guy Chapman is I've see him accuse people of partisanship while he engages in blatant partisanship. I've see him use ad hominem ad infinitum himself while accusing others of same. And I have seen him use appeals to authority, red herrings, straw men etc. etc. So no, I wouldn't presume without question that he was attempting to illustrate the problems of appeals to authority rather than just playing trumps, that other favourite game of wikipedia stalwarts, especially given his apparent abuse of his 'admin tools' to advance his own POV (not the first time either.)

However, if the context can be found to show he was actually just illustrating the problem of appeal to authority, rather than invoking it himself to advance POV, I'll certainly stand corrected on this particular point.

The 'autistic spectrum' accusation speaks volumes. What next: 'retards' and 'spazzes'?

[Abd]

Please, no tl;dr comments. If it's too long for you, then don't read it, period, and I and the rest of the world don't need to know that you are one of the billions of people who did not read it. But suit yourself.

Actually, I've got ADHD, not autism. As to the RfC being useless, well, that is probably going to depend on ArbComm. Last May or so, RfC 2 ended with "go to ArbComm," but nobody did, until JzG was added to an arbitration in September, where he was reprimanded, but no sanctions. He did, in fact, change his behavior. No FUCK OFF any more, etc. However, it's possible that he converted getting mad into getting even. But in drafting the RfC, I avoided all of this complication. The RfC asks three simple questions: was he involved with the article on cold fusion? did he use his tools with respect to the article or related pages? and is this a violation of policy? If you look through the smoke at the RfC, nobody is really disagreeing with Yes on all questions. Rather, those defending him are excusing the actions on a claim that the community supported the actions themselves. Now, that argument could be dismantled, it actually isn't true. But that, then, gets into content issues. I'm not going there, not yet.

Instead, the RfC was designed to address a clear black and white issue, one on which there is a lot of precedent, administrative recusal, and it shows just about exactly what would be in an ArbComm filing, the work has been done. Sometimes "involvement" can be unclear, but not in this case. The precedent is that if he can't admit the problem, he'll lose his admin bit, even if tons of editors pile on to defend him. Maybe he'll do it, I've been trying to get friends of his to help him see the issue for three months now, but he's blown everyone off, as far as can be seen. The "virtual cabal" is trying to turn the attention on me, but I don't think they realize what they are up against. WP:DGAF, my mantra. I've done everything I could to rescue JzG from his own intransigence, except that I'm not willing to sacrifice the project to save him. If I should happen to go down in flames, well, maybe I'll have helped editors whose contributions I'll never personally see. But I don't expect that. I did my homework.

[Mathsci]

This horrible furry caterpillar has now become a fully fledged horrible furry moth.

It has come to pass, as the prophets of doom predicted, that Jehochman, the righteous, has initiated an Abd & JzG arbcom.

Expect hours of finger pointing, navel gazing, passive aggression and interminable tracts.

[EricBarbour]

It has come to pass, as the prophets of doom predicted, that Jehochman, the righteous, has initiated an Abd & JzG arbcom.

Do you have a link to the end of the world? Can't find it.

[Mathsci]

Do you have a link to the end of the world? Can't find it.

It's here

This post has been edited by Mathsci: Mon 20th April 2009, 10:16pm